[split] The Abolish Compulsory Schooling Movement

[James Comey]

Why do I have a feeling that a part 2 of the July Rift is on the horizon?

[brainiac3397]

What happened July?

[James Comey]

Arguments over whether criticism/advice should be allowed, the goals of School Survival and the direction it's headed, etc. Lead to DoApocalyse.

[brainiac3397]

Oh ya that thing...

[Chanku]

Soul doesn't want to control SS anymore which is why she choose me, xcriteria, and Night to take her place essentially. Also DoA has stated that having the SS name is a bad call and xcriteria agrees with me that you need to stop using the School-Survival name. If you continue to act in defiance of me I will remove your powers. Also she never stressed that anywhere, she did, however, state that I, along with xcriteria and Night were to take her position.

If soul has a problem with me deciding this is a bad topic then she can take it up with me

Why don't you go to DnE?

[GamerGurl]

(10-09-2014 02:55 PM)Chanku Wrote:  Soul doesn't want to control SS anymore which is why she choose me, xcriteria, and Night to take her place essentially. Also DoA has stated that having the SS name is a bad call and xcriteria agrees with me that you need to stop using the School-Survival name. If you continue to act in defiance of me I will remove your powers. Also she never stressed that anywhere, she did, however, state that I, along with xcriteria and Night were to take her position.

If soul has a problem with me deciding this is a bad topic then she can take it up with me

Why don't you go to DnE?

Quote any time when she said anything along the lines of not wanting to control SS anymore. The only reason why she isn't as involved as she was a few months ago is due to the DnE community that decided to bait and troll the hell out of this community and fracture it, and use DoA and his actions as a reason to point the blame on someone and avoid of getting themselves into shit, banned, dealt with and what-not.

On a side-note it's funny that your sig a few weeks ago you owned ¼ of the forums. Night and xcriteria owned their ¼, and who does that leave for the remaining ¼? Duelix? Soul! And she actually owns more than ¼ because she's THE lead admin, and is the one who created this forum and runs the servers and pays for it upkeep, so on and so forth.

The only reason DoA thinks it's bad for me to use the School Survival name is due to all the backlash he's getting from people trying to be "edgy" and certain people trying to instigate conflicts and what-not. He feels responsible for a lot of shit that isn't and wasn't even his fault. Him and I still made a great call of using School Survival as an effective tool to promote and market this movement, and I thought of this way before I discussed this with him; he only articulated this idea and explained in excellent detail why it was needed.

Also, I have yet to see xcriteria point that out as I see him trying to moderate rather than take sides as per the posts he's mentioning me in. And, for the record, I personally disagree with your opinion, especially with what DoA told me via PMs before this jump-start to the movement was officially drafted.

Additionally, you can't remove me from being a Forum Assistant. I'm the person who formally requested to Soul that a Forum Assistants group be enacted on SS so that the rest of the community didn't feel intimidated from actual moderators being present and from the use of their privileges.

Remove me if you wish but I will just contact Soul to reinstate me.

I will act how I'd like to act because what you're doing is wrong. Soul stickied this when I, a Forum Assistant, having the power to do this myself, decided to take the high route and ask her if this could be stickied. I was the one who created this idea for Soul in order to help with pseudo-moderation on the forums, and I rarely ever use the privileges granted from it.

As for your question, I will just pretend I never read that and can't see it.

[Chanku]

First off I have removed you, and I'm tempted to fucking ban you. Secondly he deserves that backlash he has acted rashly and you are the only one here to not fucking see that.

Secondly Soul stepped down because she didn't want to deal with the community anymore, she didn't want to have to deal with SS, which is why she put us in charge, so we could run SS for her. So she decided to put me, xcriteria, and night in charge. Besides I seem to be the only one who actually does shit around here(Not saying xcriteria doesn't, but Moderation Wise, and there are Moderators who actually do their jobs). I spend most of my fucking time on this fucking site, I have come up with several ideas, and I have put more time and effort into SS than you SirMarty.

So kindly fuck off and leave SS, if you want to have your own fucking movement then make your own god-damn site and run it.

[GamerGurl]

(10-09-2014 03:34 PM)Chanku Wrote:  First off I have removed you, and I'm tempted to fucking ban you. Secondly he deserves that backlash he has acted rashly and you are the only one here to not fucking see that.

Secondly Soul stepped down because she didn't want to deal with the community anymore, she didn't want to have to deal with SS, which is why she put us in charge, so we could run SS for her. So she decided to put me, xcriteria, and night in charge. Besides I seem to be the only one who actually does shit around here(Not saying xcriteria doesn't, but Moderation Wise, and there are Moderators who actually do their jobs). I spend most of my fucking time on this fucking site, I have come up with several ideas, and I have put more time and effort into SS than you SirMarty.

So kindly fuck off and leave SS, if you want to have your own fucking movement then make your own god-damn site and run it.

Now I'm seeing your true colors! Go ahead and ban me, you'll really only make this worse on yourself.



He has not acted rashly or as indoctrinating or whatever as many of you make him out to be. He was a victim of the DnE trolls and Duelix and whoever else was involved that wanted to split this community and cause major drama—which sadly worked. Their trolling was successful, but they only got SS shutdown for a month. Still, even the shitstorm they started still lingers to this day, even now, in this very thread, and during this current discussion...

There's nothing for me "to see" other than who was actually responsible for what happened this past summer on SS. I know how trolling works. Hell, I've even participated in it myself on other forums and in online games. For most of the summer those ex-SS members basically derailed the forum, hijacked it, and split this community into so many parts and made us go against each other—and that's only putting it lightly.

Accuse me of whatever else you want and slander me all you like, but do NOT accuse me of hijacking School Survival and of NOT putting any time and effort into it like you have. I may not have as many posts as you have, and I may have gone through a few periods of inactivity, but I think about much of SS and this movement A LOT, and I'm doing it for the sake of cognitive refugees, pro-learners, anti-schoolers, School Survivialists—whatever you want to call them—everywhere.

I've been here ever since the forum was just brought back up after Soul shut SS down for the summer of 2012 due to the riff-raff the then-SS community and now-DnE community caused that encouraged her to almost completely give up on SS.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:unless Soul comes in here and clears things up, Soul willingly resigned her power to be head admin, and instead only owns the site's servers, along with the data that is on the servers(at least this is my interpritation), so as an admin, unless you wish to take it up with the other two this is being unsticked because of the following:

I stickied it. Leave it stickied. I am still an admin and have not stepped down from that, I'm just spending less time here and needed other people to look after the place in my stead, NOT take over and do whatever the hell they want and blatantly undo things I've done.

I made 3 people admins specifically so that you could all keep each other in check so that any one in particular doesn't go on a power trip. Not sure that it's working very well, honestly...

I'm splitting some of this that went off-topic... why the hell did you move it to a password-protected forum? We have a split button...

I'm all for people actually doing things to try and make a difference in people's lives with regard to school, regardless of how practical it may or may not be. I think this particular movement should have its name changed because the association with SS is clearly causing more confusion than its worth, though.

I want Marty and DoA to stay and feel as welcome as possible here... we need more people like them. Please don't fuck this up. If their influence here goes away... that would be bad.

EDIT: On second thought, I can't be arsed to split this... it's too hard to figure out what to split.

[Ky]

(10-09-2014 03:34 PM)Chanku Wrote:  First off I have removed you, and I'm tempted to fucking ban you. Secondly he deserves that backlash he has acted rashly and you are the only one here to not fucking see that.

Secondly Soul stepped down because she didn't want to deal with the community anymore, she didn't want to have to deal with SS, which is why she put us in charge, so we could run SS for her. So she decided to put me, xcriteria, and night in charge. Besides I seem to be the only one who actually does shit around here(Not saying xcriteria doesn't, but Moderation Wise, and there are Moderators who actually do their jobs). I spend most of my fucking time on this fucking site, I have come up with several ideas, and I have put more time and effort into SS than you SirMarty.

So kindly fuck off and leave SS, if you want to have your own fucking movement then make your own god-damn site and run it.

I leave for a day...nay, for only a few hours...and you go and do this?

Words cannot begin to describe my anger. What I feel transcends the concept of rage. You think that your responsibilities give you any more right to a course of action than any other user? You honestly think that these moderation tools give you power? Have you learned nothing from what I did?

Oh, but you're right, of course. I do deserve that backlash - every bit of it - because, once again, I fucked up majorly. But my horrible reputation does not give you the right to bully and demean the one person here who stood up for me, the one person here with enough ambition to start a serious movement, and the one person here brave enough to do what he feels is right without succumbing to conformity. At least I make some attempt at reform when someone calls me out on my bullshit - he called you out on yours and you didn't even briefly consider his side of the story.

You're showing major cowardice by hiding behind your administrative privileges this way. I don't care what your rank is or how much of this site you "own" - that is not how you treat your fellow forum members.

I have half a mind to come back just so I can show you the error of your ways - I am very disappointed in you. And if you have a problem with being criticized in this way, then you can just do the very thing you told Marty to do. This site belongs to whoever Soul says it belongs to, regardless of her involvement (or lack thereof); do not assume that it is primarily yours, and do not assume you have any right to lord it over other people even if it is.

AAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[GamerGurl]

(10-09-2014 11:40 PM)Alistoriv Wrote:  Let's be clear here, I'm not advocating that we ban Marty or anything but god damn. Marty, I respect your opinion and can definitely see where you're coming from, but that does not allow you to be a patronizing asshole every time this happens. People have valid reasons that they might not agree with you and you can't just cover that up by screaming pro-school doctrine and acting like they just want to start shit and take no blame in this.

Funny. I could say the same for those trying to be "edgy"...



Many people here did the exact same thing to DoA but on a much different and even worse level. I defended him because he was only trying to weed out those actually responsible for the trolling, but then those that acted like patronizing assholes due to the trolling were also breaking the rules so they in turn got banned as well. DoA was also trying to carve out a new generation for SS because it seemed as if SS was going through a huge identity crisis.

Yes, I'll admit, just like I did to Soul via PMs, that I may sound passive-aggressive at points but that's just how I sound when I passionately type what I post. To add insult to injury I will call it how I see it so that further exacerbates that, but it's completely unnecessary to call me a patronizing asshole.

The worst I have done is be on the opposition towards you and several others (which really shouldn't count...), call some of you hypocrites (in general), and sound all passive-aggressive at points, which is child's play compared to some of the diatribe some of you guys post, and really it's the best way I can stay composed without exploding. So again, please continue if you must on how that's being a "patronizing asshole" compared to some of the diatribe you guys post.

At this point I don't even know where I see myself on SS due to just how bad the forum is in terms of moderation, which didn't even exist before some "edgyists" decided to return, and due to the fact that some people have more moderate views or want to approach this conservatively. Some others can and should support this but it seems as if they're acting contrarian just for the sake of doing so.

I feel as if that's all I can say.

[Username]

This thread...

Everyone ganging up on Chanku, the ones with power 'round here are anyhow.

[brainiac3397]

I sense an objective split.

It was
*gang on Marty
*gang on username?
*gang on DOA
*gang on DOA and Marty
*gang on chanku
*gang on Marty

I get it right?

[Username]

(10-10-2014 04:17 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  I sense an objective split.

It was
*gang on Marty
*gang on username?
*gang on DOA
*gang on DOA and Marty
*gang on chanku
*gang on Marty

I get it right?

Wait, when did I get poked in the bum?

[brainiac3397]

Or was that another thread..

[Username]

(10-10-2014 04:42 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Or was that another thread..

Or every thread where I confront someone..

[brainiac3397]

If I had a pc it would be so much easier and faster to split the irrelevant stuff involving personal attacks...but I dont feel like doing it on tablet.

[Username]

(10-10-2014 04:51 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  If I had a pc it would be so much easier and faster to split the irrelevant stuff involving personal attacks...but I dont feel like doing it on tablet.

Everybody, make it as off-topic as possible while you can!

[Chanku]

Also for the record I kinda had a Moment of Insanity last night....err actually a few hours of insanity last night. Sorry. Although if it pleases anyone I'm no longer an Admin.

Edit: And as to why I moved it to the password protected forum, before I kinda had the moment of insanity I moved if, if only to allow myself to calm down(again I spend most of my time of this forum). I would also like to be admin again, as I'll try and not spend so much time on the site(although usually when it comes to sites either I spend a lot of time on them, or I don't spend much(if any) time at all, of which I'll try and make sure I can moderate my time on here better).

Also considering I have only had one power trip(although what triggered my reactions, I'm not sure.) and the fact that last night, tempers did flare....big time. Also considering the fact I deeply regret my actions.

Also Sorry SirMarty for what happened last night, it wasn't right.

[Username]

(10-10-2014 05:08 AM)Chanku Wrote:  Also for the record I kinda had a Moment of Insanity last night....err actually a few hours of insanity last night. Sorry. Although if it pleases anyone I'm no longer an Admin.

Hmrh, I didn't approve of the powerplay, but you were actually trying to improve the site in the.. uhh, technical department??
Kudos, for trying to make this

Hidden stuff:

website-shaped toilet

a place that doesn't look like an eyesore.

[KFC Nyan Cat]

Stop the drama! Nobody gives a shit. Seriously, the drama over whether I was a dumbass or not was more worthwhile.

[Username]

(10-10-2014 01:52 PM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  Stop the drama! Nobody gives a shit. Seriously, the drama over whether I was a dumbass or not was more worthwhile.

Well we still haven't found a conclusion to that either.

[KFC Nyan Cat]

(10-10-2014 02:10 PM)Username Wrote:  

(10-10-2014 01:52 PM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  Stop the drama! Nobody gives a shit. Seriously, the drama over whether I was a dumbass or not was more worthwhile.

Well we still haven't found a conclusion to that either.

And you are the only person who still gives a shit.

[GamerGurl]

(10-10-2014 05:08 AM)Chanku Wrote:  Also for the record I kinda had a Moment of Insanity last night....err actually a few hours of insanity last night. Sorry. Although if it pleases anyone I'm no longer an Admin.

Edit: And as to why I moved it to the password protected forum, before I kinda had the moment of insanity I moved if, if only to allow myself to calm down(again I spend most of my time of this forum). I would also like to be admin again, as I'll try and not spend so much time on the site(although usually when it comes to sites either I spend a lot of time on them, or I don't spend much(if any) time at all, of which I'll try and make sure I can moderate my time on here better).

Also considering I have only had one power trip(although what triggered my reactions, I'm not sure.) and the fact that last night, tempers did flare....big time. Also considering the fact I deeply regret my actions.

Also Sorry SirMarty for what happened last night, it wasn't right.

We're cool! I hope my post explaining using the School Survival name clears everything up. I'll most likely continue using the name since I think what I explained should make everyone who reads it feel like it won't speak for them if they don't want the movement to represent them.

[Chanku]

Well still even with that, it still shows the illusion that this is what SS is, so I will kindly ask that you refrain from using the School-Survival Name, if only to not confuse any new people are cause false pretenses.

[Username]

(10-10-2014 03:51 PM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  

(10-10-2014 02:10 PM)Username Wrote:  

(10-10-2014 01:52 PM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  Stop the drama! Nobody gives a shit. Seriously, the drama over whether I was a dumbass or not was more worthwhile.

Well we still haven't found a conclusion to that either.

And you are the only person who still gives a shit.

Yeah sure why not

[SoulRiser]

All the shits I give are hitting the fan and slapping everyone in the face right now.

[Username]

(10-11-2014 12:12 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  All the shits I give are hitting the fan and slapping everyone in the face right now.

So, you give lots of shits?

[xcriteria]

(10-09-2014 03:28 PM)SirMarty Wrote:  The only reason why [SoulRiser] isn't as involved as she was a few months ago is due to the DnE community that decided to bait and troll the hell out of this community and fracture it...

There's a lot more to it than just the events of the summer, or DnE. Soul has expressed frustration with the site at many points over the years. Beyond that, she seems to not be finding the site fulfilling or rewarding to actively work with, like many years ago. Her vent thread from a few months ago goes into that in some depth.

I think that's important to clarify... and if there's any way she might get inspired to spend more time here, I think that'd be awesome. I saw so many signs of hope and promise back in 2005-2006... but none of us had the experience or set of connections to go far beyond the forums with the education conversation. And SS never really evolved into a promotable brand, in part because of the level of darkness and chaos on the forums.

And yet, that darkness and chaos wasn't just the work of some evil trolls, it was a bona fide culture that emerged here. It was people's home away from home... their community. I would have much preferred a different kind of culture here, and many of us want to see a culture that's more focused on transforming and creating things. It's taking too long to happen!

But I don't see it so much as the work of adversarial forces, as much as something missing in terms of what all of us who want to change things have been doing. Why weren't people jumping to do things in 2012 or 2013 or earlier in 2014? There have been signs of interest, hope, and wanting to change things, even brainstorming of ideas on chats on hangouts during 2014. But it hasn't, yet, been a sustained project or set of projects.

This set of threads is a step forward in at least doing something, though. Just like some of the other steps forward.

But so many things seem to get drowned out in anger and apathy.

(10-09-2014 03:28 PM)SirMarty Wrote:  The only reason DoA thinks it's bad for me to use the School Survival name is due to all the backlash he's getting from people trying to be "edgy" and certain people trying to instigate conflicts and what-not. He feels responsible for a lot of shit that isn't and wasn't even his fault.

I think that's an over-simplification. A number of us think using the name "School Survival movement" as synonymous with the ACS movement isn't the way to do things. You can still have a stickied thread, use SS to promote your ideas, etc.

I think that one detail of saying "School Survival movement" happened to be one of the things that stirred up some angry responses... not from trolls, but just from people who got angry.

(This site seriously needs to offer an anger management class or something like that...)

(10-09-2014 03:28 PM)SirMarty Wrote:  Also, I have yet to see xcriteria point that out as I see him trying to moderate rather than take sides as per the posts he's mentioning me in. And, for the record, I personally disagree with your opinion, especially with what DoA told me via PMs before this jump-start to the movement was officially drafted.

Well there, I pointed it out.

I've actually done a very poor job of moderating this whole set of conversations from the beginning. It's because of things like:

1. Focusing on other things (like discussing how to transform education with people who want to help do it...)

2. Internet and device problems, which led to me losing one earlier attempt at a reply to the main thread.

3. Trying to figure out how to even begin to respond to all this...

4. Hoping some things will sort themselves out (Soul's strategy )

(10-09-2014 03:52 PM)SirMarty Wrote:  

(10-09-2014 03:34 PM)Chanku Wrote:  I spend most of my fucking time on this fucking site, I have come up with several ideas, and I have put more time and effort into SS than you SirMarty.

So kindly fuck off and leave SS, if you want to have your own fucking movement then make your own god-damn site and run it.

Now I'm seeing your true colors! Go ahead and ban me, you'll really only make this worse on yourself.

Okay, lesson time.

First, I completely disagree with Chanku's reaction. In his follow-up post, he even apologized.

But, just because someone acts in an ugly manner at one point in time, doesn't mean those are their "true colors" -- as much as people often interpret things that way.

That's just as true with DoA as it is with Chanku. Both of them have acted in rather chaotic ways, and really they aren't alone.

That doesn't make it "right," or "excuse" ugly behavior, but I think it's worth stepping back and asking why people are reacting in the way they do.

I think it's really important to avoid falling into the trap of either demonizing a person, or giving them blanket justifications. The same thing is true when reflecting on one's own actions.

Example:

(10-09-2014 03:52 PM)SirMarty Wrote:  He has not acted rashly or as indoctrinating or whatever as many of you make him out to be. He was a victim of the DnE trolls and Duelix and whoever else was involved that wanted to split this community and cause major drama—which sadly worked.

At some points, he really has. He's acknowledged that.

Yes, there are reasons for it, but those reasons go beyond just being forced/victimized by villains. It's also in how he's reacted. DoA has even expressed a desire to change, and disappointment in himself for not changing.

But... the way I see it, he's now taken that too far into a defeatist attitude.

What's going on in these situations where people lash out or try to execute power-related gambits, and then withdraw, takes some work to disentangle.

It's not as simple as a single judgment for or against a person tends to make it out to be. And yet these things are possible to make sense of with some patience, interest, and effort. That's what systems thinking and family systems therapy are all about. Stepping back and looking at the big picture, and the complexity of each individual human being.

(Actually, DoA -- if you're reading -- it'd be interesting to have some dialogue about that from a therapy perspective. This is as good a place as any college to learn through dialogue and real life examples!)

I'll end that lesson there... but the basic takeaway is, when getting into these emotionally-charged interactions, it's worth learning to step back and re-frame the problem. That's a skill that's absolutely indispensable for succeeding at transforming education as well.

And yet it's not a skill that's mastered overnight. I'm still learning it. But it can certainly be learned faster when one's goal is look at education as beyond school, and something that can occur every day with the right mindset.

(10-09-2014 03:52 PM)SirMarty Wrote:  There's nothing for me "to see" other than who was actually responsible for what happened this past summer on SS. I know how trolling works. Hell, I've even participated in it myself on other forums and in online games. For most of the summer those ex-SS members basically derailed the forum, hijacked it, and split this community into so many parts and made us go against each other—and that's only putting it lightly.

That was a big problem, but there's more to it all than simply a matter of trolls. Trolls aside, there's been a sort of tension between the idea of SS as an out-of-the-way community for people to get support, socialize, and mess around... vs. the idea of developing SS into a larger, marketable brand with a bigger audience and greater credibility, that could actually help transform situations or the bigger picture landscape of education.

And then, there's the question of how... and actually taking steps to do any of that.

(10-09-2014 03:52 PM)SirMarty Wrote:  Accuse me of whatever else you want and slander me all you like, but do NOT accuse me of hijacking School Survival and of NOT putting any time and effort into it like you have. I may not have as many posts as you have, and I may have gone through a few periods of inactivity, but I think about much of SS and this movement A LOT, and I'm doing it for the sake of cognitive refugees, pro-learners, anti-schoolers, School Survivialists—whatever you want to call them—everywhere.

I've been here ever since the forum was just brought back up after Soul shut SS down for the summer of 2012 due to the riff-raff the then-SS community and now-DnE community caused that encouraged her to almost completely give up on SS.

Well-put. I think people over-reacted in their interpretation of you trying to hijack the site, too.

(10-09-2014 09:52 PM)SoulRiser Wrote:  I'm all for people actually doing things to try and make a difference in people's lives with regard to school, regardless of how practical it may or may not be. I think this particular movement should have its name changed because the association with SS is clearly causing more confusion than its worth, though.

Agreed. Also, massive change to how education works is coming, sooner or later. The question is what part each of us want to play, and what will actually help change things. Sometimes that's as simple as introducing people to an "impractical" idea. But a big part of it will be people connecting... and there are lots of places to connect, including StuVoice... which is open to being about and focusing on the issues students bring to them... not just the limited interpretation DoA and others came up with by looking at their site.

Talking to people and getting to know them goes a LONG way.

(10-09-2014 09:52 PM)SoulRiser Wrote:  I want Marty and DoA to stay and feel as welcome as possible here... we need more people like them. Please don't fuck this up. If their influence here goes away... that would be bad.

Agreed. These two are some of the core set of people who have written long and engaging text on the site, among many other things. We need more of that... and to edit it into something we can show to more people.

And their passion for change is actually helping some conversation happen. We all just need to find better ways to not get caught up in walking way or lashing out. In Crucial Conversations, those reactions are labeled "silence" and "violence" -- and either one disrupts the progression of an important conversation or set of conversations.

[GamerGurl]

(10-10-2014 05:50 PM)Chanku Wrote:  Well still even with that, it still shows the illusion that this is what SS is, so I will kindly ask that you refrain from using the School-Survival Name, if only to not confuse any new people are cause false pretenses.

I still feel the opposite. You said it yourself from your interpretation from what's on the homepage of SS.

Plus, false pretenses is behavior that is intended to deceive others. I'm not really deceiving anyone since I and DoA explicitly explained further what the movement actually is and what School Survival's role actually is, and the latter is mostly limited to the naming. And as someone said previously, a name is just a name, at least in most cases.

(10-11-2014 12:41 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  *snip*

That was quite the post! I'll keep this concise, mainly because I don't think I need to touch on all those points; most of them speak for themselves.

The only way the "School Survival Movement" is actually synonymous with my ACS project is the 3 purposes I listed here. To add onto the last point, I'm very sure that, yes, I told Soul personally that I want SS to serve as a sponsor for the movement and she approved.

What I would like to do is create a lot of the ACS discussion here on School Survival within the School Talk forum. Keep it mainly here while the other social media pages serve as another form of marketing, advertisement, sharing news, etc. I want to use SS as a forum for the movement.

With Chanku, I think it was his "true colors" but he expressed it way more respectfully and calmly after Soul cleared up a lot of things after he went ballistic. From my POV, I think Chanku disagrees with using the "School Survival Movement" as a part of the name, and in some ways or more it also seems that he doesn't want to focus on something he sees as being impractical.

DoA refuted the view of this being impractical. Look at gay rights and marriage back in day—that was really impractical. There was abolishing slavery back before the Civil War as well. Look where both are now. I think the defeatist mentality is stemming from some of you. If this is the attitude you have towards change then nothing will ever be accomplished. And I personally won't settle for moderate change.

Then there's some of you who don't want to associate yourselves with this kind of radicalism. Then don't. I'm not saying you're obligated to. Don't involve yourselves with it, but that won't stop the apparently majority of School Survivalists from working on it from within and without the forum.

Additionally, I know it's only more than trolls being the issue—and that brings me to my next and main point.

It does definitely seem that there's tension within our community mostly because some of us are more radical than others, and some want to reach out to more "legitimate" groups and remain more of a support group for those stuck in school. On another hand there's those like DoA and myself, who not only want to continue supporting those stuck in school but want to carve a definite way out of it for the future generations—we want to evolve—and we want to start doing so here.

I don't see how the latter is such a huge issue. If those who don't want to associate themselves with the latter because they're now supposedly against that radicalism or are more moderate or whatever, then just don't. Don't partake in it.

If you have a problem with the latter trying to start make its mark here, I've already gotten Soul's approval for it, and it seems like the supposedly majority kind of topples the apparently vocal minority. And like I've said in the post with the 3 purposes, I'm not gonna create a new website and forum solely for this for reasons I don't need to explain yet again.

I guess SS is indeed going through some identity crisis. I'm glad most of the DnE community has moved on, but it seems like a new one has awakened after that.

I personally have no idea how this new identity crisis will be resolved, but right now all I want to do is focus on the ACS movement, start working on that, and hopefully get some people from the homeschooling and unschooling communities to come here, discuss it, and hopefully make another form of freedom-based changed.

Lastly, since SS is really just a support site, what's wrong with adding in more options? Nothing wrong with growing, tackling new things, and creating more activity and discussions—something that xcriteria himself is very open to. If you're not interested don't engage yourself in it. Is that so hard?

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Forgot to add this somewhere in my post, but I do acknowledge that Soul feels that it's a bad idea to use the title that I used for the thread focused on ACS.

I will try out the name again, but if it gets to the point of almost causing another shitstorm I will make the necessary adjustments.