School is getting to me...(rant)

[acrabperson]

I'm in high school, and I hate school with a passion.

I get good grades, top of my class. I'm in the honors and AP classes and all that bullshit. I won't bore you too much about where I stand in the demoralizing ranking system. I don't consider myself intelligent, I consider myself good at the system.

I don't know why I still do it. Why I still try to beat the system. I think it's partly because if I didn't try to "win" at school, I would feel inferior to other kids. It's the product of years of brainwashing by both teachers and parents. School is a competition!

However, I think that I am most fearful of the consequences of failure in school. I recognize my own inexperience. I only get to go to high school once. If I fuck it up, there's no going back. I still don't know how the world works.

But there's one thing I do know.

It's that school doesn't teach you how to think. It teaches you to follow orders and do work that you hate. A good way to teach people how to think is to let them set their own goals and solve their own problems, instead of forcing them to solve fake, meaningless problems posed by teachers. I go to school because the government decided that because I lack experience, I am incapable of deciding what I want to do with my time. The government decided that instead of becoming skilled in fields that I enjoy, I should become slightly skilled in a wide range of fields that I do not enjoy.

School wastes my time. I have shit I want to do with my life (I won't discuss this "shit" because it is irrelevant to my point). Just like you, I'm not here forever. School doesn't help me accomplish my own goals. It wastes my time by forcing me to do stupid bullshit that I don't care about.

The only class I would willingly take given the choice is math. School should let students (who are people too) make decisions, instead of forcing them to live in a state of perpetual dependence where they need everything spoonfed to them. Schools go on and on about success. They say that if you want to succeed, you have to do this and this and this. Bullshit. Success is relative to the individual. Success could be anything. You can't teach people to succeed. People learn that for themselves. Not by going to this joke of a school system where they learn to conform and obey.

Society nowadays should learn a lesson from society of the past. People used to start careers at young ages. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that. On the flip side, make school an option for people who don't wish to make such decisions so soon.

And the worst part is, there's nothing I can do. If you don't finish high school, you are automatically branded as stupid and incompetent. I am forced to become a part of the system that's been set up by both society and the government if I ever want people to take me seriously. It's a "rite of passage". I really have no choice. I want to be free and make my own decisions, but alas! I must let a few more youthful years waste away while I endure this hell.

I hope you enjoyed reading my rant as much as I enjoyed writing it. Tell me where you agree and where I'm wrong, I know I'm stupid and inexperienced and have a lot to learn. Anyway, it's nice to be on a website where people hate school as much as me. I'm 15 if you want to know. If you didn't, fuck you.

...maybe school would be better if I were fully human instead of part-crab. Those pincher things are a bitch.

[thoughtmaker]

i'll only disagree on one point: you shouldn't call yourself stupid or feel inferior. it fact, by realizing school is bullshit, i would say that makes you smarter than most, however, i don't think you should feel that you would be inferior if you didn't do well in school. also you shouldn't worry about being branded as stupid. the people who call you stupid are usually too afraid to come to the realization that they are wasting their time at school.

and finally, i don't know much about how the world works either. (i think this is what keeps kids like us in school, although i might not finish at the rate i'm going) what i do know is that if you choose what you want out of life, and make a commitment to yourself to succeed, then fuck the rest. do what makes you happy.

also, i can't really help you witth the pincers

[thoughtmaker]

oh yeah and arrrr welcome me matey

finally i got one first

[Hamish]

I agree with a lot of what you just said.

I do disagree with the whole “if you quit school, you automatically seem like a failure” but yes, lets face it. It’s the first thing people would assume if you said you quit high school earlier.

Beating the system huh? Sounds interesting. I like to test with the school rules. A LOT. For example, if a teacher told me to stop swearing, I would ask them to give me a legit reason why to stop, and how is it offensive. Never got a legit answer, just stuff like “its rude” and I ask why and it always comes to silence…

Bad example but you know what I mean.

A better example was when the teacher moved me. I got shifted and I did nothing. So I decided to refused to do any work, till I got shifted back, and I wanted a apology, AND a reason why she moved me.

“Why aren’t you doing any work?”
“You shifted me for no reason, I’m not doing any work till I get shifted back OR you give me a reason why you did in the first place.”

I got referred, well that means I had to talk to some guy and right a apology to the teacher. I refused to apologize as I did nothing wrong in the first place.

Next class, referred again for not apologizing.

And the next one too.

I had to talk to the person in charge of our year, and he said I will nearly get suspended if I get referred again.

A classic story.. After years of teaching, he would get used to hearing pathetic student’s excuses, but this one time, the student was right. Not the teacher.

Well cut along ass story short, I talked to the teacher that referred me, in the end I got shifted back. AND a apology!

Wooooooooot!

Anyways that was completely off topic. Oh well.


And welcome!

[Darthmat]

[Alucard483]

acrabperson Wrote:I'm in high school, and I hate school with a passion.

I get good grades, top of my class. I'm in the honors and AP classes and all that bullshit. I won't bore you too much about where I stand in the demoralizing ranking system. I don't consider myself intelligent, I consider myself good at the system.

I don't know why I still do it. Why I still try to beat the system. I think it's partly because if I didn't try to "win" at school, I would feel inferior to other kids. It's the product of years of brainwashing by both teachers and parents. School is a competition!

However, I think that I am most fearful of the consequences of failure in school. I recognize my own inexperience. I only get to go to high school once. If I fuck it up, there's no going back. I still don't know how the world works.

But there's one thing I do know.

It's that school doesn't teach you how to think. It teaches you to follow orders and do work that you hate. A good way to teach people how to think is to let them set their own goals and solve their own problems, instead of forcing them to solve fake, meaningless problems posed by teachers. I go to school because the government decided that because I lack experience, I am incapable of deciding what I want to do with my time. The government decided that instead of becoming skilled in fields that I enjoy, I should become slightly skilled in a wide range of fields that I do not enjoy.

School wastes my time. I have shit I want to do with my life (I won't discuss this "shit" because it is irrelevant to my point). Just like you, I'm not here forever. School doesn't help me accomplish my own goals. It wastes my time by forcing me to do stupid bullshit that I don't care about.

The only class I would willingly take given the choice is math. School should let students (who are people too) make decisions, instead of forcing them to live in a state of perpetual dependence where they need everything spoonfed to them. Schools go on and on about success. They say that if you want to succeed, you have to do this and this and this. Bullshit. Success is relative to the individual. Success could be anything. You can't teach people to succeed. People learn that for themselves. Not by going to this joke of a school system where they learn to conform and obey.

Society nowadays should learn a lesson from society of the past. People used to start careers at young ages. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that. On the flip side, make school an option for people who don't wish to make such decisions so soon.

And the worst part is, there's nothing I can do. If you don't finish high school, you are automatically branded as stupid and incompetent. I am forced to become a part of the system that's been set up by both society and the government if I ever want people to take me seriously. It's a "rite of passage". I really have no choice. I want to be free and make my own decisions, but alas! I must let a few more youthful years waste away while I endure this hell.

I hope you enjoyed reading my rant as much as I enjoyed writing it. Tell me where you agree and where I'm wrong, I know I'm stupid and inexperienced and have a lot to learn. Anyway, it's nice to be on a website where people hate school as much as me. I'm 15 if you want to know. If you didn't, fuck you.

...maybe school would be better if I were fully human instead of part-crab. Those pincher things are a bitch.

Couldent be more right about it. I fully agree

[youvebeenthunderstruck]

ARR HAR HAR HAR WELCOME ME HEARTY

[tock172]

Hey man I am in the exact same boat as you. I am also around your age, I am about to once again enter a place I told myself I would never enter again. To be completely honest man, you pretty much summed up a huge amount of things that I have wanted to say for a while.

I am completely tired of the bullshit you and I have to deal with everyday. I already know my goals. For the most part, I already know most of the things I need to know to achieve what I want. Most of what you need to learn to become what I want to become is not learned in a school and most likely never will be. This "system" we are stuck in is obsolete, antiquated and in need of not an update, but a complete overhaul. The evidence is everywhere, but nothing is being done and nothing will be done as long as we sit and do nothing. Talking about it is a great start and having everyone together in a place like this is even better, but unless we get something done about it, we were all just more bricks in the wall.

[SoulRiser]

Hey, welcome to the place of insanity

... you have pincers?

Quote:Well cut along ass story short, I talked to the teacher that referred me, in the end I got shifted back. AND a apology!

PWNED!

[acrabperson]

HAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR. Thanks for the piratey welcome and all the comments.

Quote:I am completely tired of the bullshit you and I have to deal with everyday. I already know my goals. For the most part, I already know most of the things I need to know to achieve what I want. Most of what you need to learn to become what I want to become is not learned in a school and most likely never will be. This "system" we are stuck in is obsolete, antiquated and in need of not an update, but a complete overhaul. The evidence is everywhere, but nothing is being done and nothing will be done as long as we sit and do nothing. Talking about it is a great start and having everyone together in a place like this is even better, but unless we get something done about it, we were all just more bricks in the wall.

I agree 100%. The school system definitely needs a complete overhaul. I think that the problem is that the people with the power to make change don't share our strong hatred for school. Or perhaps since they aren't in school anymore, they believe that a school overhaul wouldn't affect them. Maybe if enough people come to together (this site is a great start) we can make school better for future students. I have a lot of respect for people on this site who are no longer in school but still hate it and want it changed

More tests don't help kids. I honestly am not sure where this one came from. The only practical purpose I see for graded tests is to rank students, which is not what schools should be doing anyway. I say do away with grades. I don't want to be compared to everyone else in school. School should be about learning. People will rank themselves in the world by their ability, not by how high they scored on some bullshit test.

Just because a school went up a few points on the state standardized test doesn't mean shit. There are a lot of people at my school who couldn't solve a problem unless they are told how to, step by step. It doesn't matter how much you know. If I want to know about history I can read about it in an encyclopedia. People who know everything but can't think are useless. Schools need to realize this.

More work doesn't help kids. This one speaks for itself.

COMPUTERS don't help kids. I have an especially big gripe with this one. Schools don't need computers. A few in the library would be good, where the internet could be used much like books are used. School administrators seem to have this mentality where "more technology is better". Sometimes it's not. Computers are good for some things (believe me I know, and I'm not referring to porn ), but teaching students is not one of those things. My school has a bunch of these stupid laptops that teachers just LOVE to use. What a huge waste of money. I don't know if this is the case at other schools, but my teachers love to give "internet assignments" just because they think that this technology is better. There's some great stuff on the internet, but the concentration of good information is much higher in books. I also hate powerpoint. Don't get me started on that one. If schools need to have so many computers maybe they should use (some free) unix or linux more often. At least then they wouldn't be spending so much money on shitty microsoft software.

Students don't need all this shit to learn. What they do need to learn is motivation. People are motivated by their goals. If school let students make decisions about their life and education, maybe students would have more motivation.

The world needs to see that the current system fails. People always ask me why I hate school. I tell them because it wastes my time, and they respond sarcastically with "yeah, education is such a waste of time! Getting you ready for the real world is so pointless!" (Note: I'm note acquainted with this "fake" world that they are implying). I'm sure you all hear this too. It sickens me that so many people don't see the faults and don't see that their time is being wasted. It's our job to spread the word, and let the world know that we need change.

The problem is that we live in a society where "I want it all and I want it now" (Queen is awesome) philosophy is disgustingly prevalent. If it doesn't provide people with instant satisfaction, people don't want it. This leads to people who don't work hard today for a better future. I know that the government of my country (US) has enough money to make significant changes to the school system if they wanted to (starting wars is great and all, but a country should spend some money on its own facilities). I know that I will have moved on if change ever occurs. I don't want future generations to have to deal with all this bullshit.

It feels nice to be a part of this community

[Hamish]

Haha the teachers are pathetic at out school. I believe they get paid way too much (well some of them anyway) they always print shit of the internet, and hand it to us. Barely give us help even if we ask a question, and read everything of a book. Not all teachers though… some are actually (believe it or not) helpful!

And yes, my first time in English at high school. Our teacher was always on her laptop typing away I always thought to my self, what the hell is she actually doing? So when I went to ask a question I looked at her laptop.. And she was talking on MSN..

Occasionally but rarely, some teachers flip out there phone send a quick text or a quick call, so when they do that I flick out my phone and text. They cant tell me off, as well, they were using a phone while they were meant to be teaching.

Quote:If schools need to have so many computers maybe they should use (some free) unix or linux more often. At least then they wouldn't be spending so much money on shitty microsoft software.

Linux on school computers huh? Maybe in a few years (a lot actually…) when Linux becomes mainstream, but the majority of people haven’t used Linux and don’t know how to use it… but in years to come, Linux will become mainstream, it will just take a while till it gets really really popular. Which wont be to long, as the computer company DELL is selling laptops with Linux on it

[Will]

You sound a lot like me. The main difference I noticed is that I had already read a lot of anti-school stuff before I found this forum. Read some of the articles on this site, and you'll become more confident that you're right. You'll also lose the fear of failure that drives you to get perfect grades, and your grades will start dropping, so don't tell your parents about any of this if you worry that they'll care at all.

acrabperson Wrote:If schools need to have so many computers maybe they should use (some free) unix or linux more often. At least then they wouldn't be spending so much money on shitty microsoft software.

Now you really sound like me.

acrabperson Wrote:The problem is that we live in a society where "I want it all and I want it now" (Queen is awesome) philosophy is disgustingly prevalent. If it doesn't provide people with instant satisfaction, people don't want it. This leads to people who don't work hard today for a better future. I know that the government of my country (US) has enough money to make significant changes to the school system if they wanted to (starting wars is great and all, but a country should spend some money on its own facilities). I know that I will have moved on if change ever occurs. I don't want future generations to have to deal with all this bullshit.

I don't think that's right. Governments generally want stability, so there has to be strong reason for change. People who say school is bad are considered stupid, so hasn't changed enough. It would be quite difficult to change the system, but you can get out. It feels like you're linking a few ideas together without developing them sufficiently. (I do that too.)

[Guest]

The only thing I really disagree with is this:

acrabperson Wrote:A good way to teach people how to think is to let them set their own goals and solve their own problems, instead of forcing them to solve fake, meaningless problems posed by teachers.

The problems aren't fake or meaningless. There has to be a certain level of abstraction and artificiality when creating problems to solve. They need to be specific enough for a subject but not so focused that the problem requires only one skill. For example, math problems need to be a mixture of thinking and plain calculation. Mathematical problems in the real world require multiple skills. They need to be integrated. If problems are only calculation then complex problems will be harder to solve.

Also, most people learn best by solving these problems.

This does not change the conclusion though. The problems are still forced upon students.

wsgosset Wrote:You sound a lot like me.

Oh god, not another one!

[acrabperson]

Kirby Wrote:The only thing I really disagree with is this:

acrabperson Wrote:A good way to teach people how to think is to let them set their own goals and solve their own problems, instead of forcing them to solve fake, meaningless problems posed by teachers.

The problems aren't fake or meaningless. There has to be a certain level of abstraction and artificiality when creating problems to solve. They need to be specific enough for a subject but not so focused that the problem requires only one skill. For example, math problems need to be a mixture of thinking and plain calculation. Mathematical problems in the real world require multiple skills. They need to be integrated. If problems are only calculation then complex problems will be harder to solve.

Also, most people learn best by solving these problems.

This does not change the conclusion though. The problems are still forced upon students.

I agree with your point. Perhaps I did not convey my opinion clearly enough. I meant to illustrate that people tend to work harder to solve problems that have significance to the individual. At school, teachers create artificial problems for us to solve. Some of these problems we can relate to. Some we can't. My wish is to have the option to focus on fields that interest me. I don't want to be "well-rounded". I don't want to know everything. I want to know what I need to solve the problems I want.

While the approach taken at school works when students can relate to the artificial problems, the approach is less effective when students cannot make that connection. For the sake of an example, let's say a student in some high level math class likes to write a lot, and ultimately he would like to pursue a career that is related to writing. He has no interest in math. The problems he solves when writing do not involve the math that he learns at school, yet he is forced to take this class. The math problems are most likely meaningless to this student. He does them to get a good grade and pass the class. Not because he wants to. In contrast, let's imagine another student in the same math class. This student likes to program computers. The problems he solves to reach his personal goals often involve the same math used in the artificial problems he solves in the math class. The artificial problems are much more meaningful to the second student than the first.

I am not proposing a change in the school system. I consider myself a moderate on this issue. Personally, I would like a change, but it's not going to happen. If change were to happen, it should be slow. My point here is that I have more motivation to solve artificial problems that I can relate to.

I know someone will attempt to pick apart my point and tell me that I'm wrong. I welcome that; it's just the nature of pseudo-intellectuals on the internet.

edit: I just saw I basically contradicted myself. I guess I changed my mind Happens a lot when you're young like me

[Guest]

I agree.

[HeartofShadows]

That was a nice, well thought out rant. Welcome home and you do sound smart to me. For a second I thought I was reading one of kirby's posts.

[Darthmat]

that is a compliment VERY few people will ever recieve.

[Will]

acrabperson Wrote:

Kirby Wrote:The only thing I really disagree with is this:

acrabperson Wrote:A good way to teach people how to think is to let them set their own goals and solve their own problems, instead of forcing them to solve fake, meaningless problems posed by teachers.

The problems aren't fake or meaningless. There has to be a certain level of abstraction and artificiality when creating problems to solve. They need to be specific enough for a subject but not so focused that the problem requires only one skill. For example, math problems need to be a mixture of thinking and plain calculation. Mathematical problems in the real world require multiple skills. They need to be integrated. If problems are only calculation then complex problems will be harder to solve.

Also, most people learn best by solving these problems.

This does not change the conclusion though. The problems are still forced upon students.

I agree with your point. Perhaps I did not convey my opinion clearly enough. I meant to illustrate that people tend to work harder to solve problems that have significance to the individual. At school, teachers create artificial problems for us to solve. Some of these problems we can relate to. Some we can't. My wish is that I have the option to focus on fields that interest me. I don't want to be "well-rounded". I don't want to know everything. I want to know what I need to solve the problems I want.

While the approach taken at school works when students can relate to the artificial problems, the approach is less effective when students cannot make that connection. For the sake of an example, let's say a student in some high level math class likes to write a lot, and ultimately he would like to pursue a career that is related to writing. He has no interest in math. The problems he solves when writing do not involve the math that he learns at school, yet he is forced to take this class. The math problems are most likely meaningless to this student. He does them to get a good grade and pass the class. Not because he wants to. In contrast, let's imagine another student in the same math class. This student likes to program computers. The problems he solves to reach his personal goals often involve the same math used in the artificial problems he solves in the math class. The artificial problems are much more meaningful to the second student than the first.

I am not proposing a change in the school system. I consider myself a moderate on this issue. Personally, I would like a change, but it's not going to happen. If change were to happen, it should be slow. My point here is that I have more motivation to solve artificial problems that I can relate to.

I know someone will attempt to pick apart my point and tell me that I'm wrong. I welcome that; it's just the nature of pseudo-intellectuals on the internet.

edit: I just saw I basically contradicted myself. I guess I changed my mind Happens a lot when you're young like me

Or you have determined by reductio ad absurdum that there was a flaw in your logic.

Here's something that Linus Torvalds said in Just for Fun. He believes that there are three levels of human desire or whatever. The most important is survival, and the second most important is reproduction. Those are already met in our society, so we can focus on the third one: having fun.

Even if we totally fail school, we'll be able to find a way to survive and reproduce, so let's just do what we want do. Linus only works on Linux because it's fun, and he didn't get so stressed by Linux as he did by trying to have a social life. He said something like that in Just for Fun.

[acrabperson]

Once again, thank you for the comments.

Heart of shadows:
Thank you, it seems that kirby is held in pretty high regard around here.

wsgosset:
That's an interesting quote. I'm not familiar with torvalds and his ideas, but I do share his enjoyment of programming.

...am I a traitor for preferring *bsd?

[délivrance]

Interesting quote indeed. Torvald's idea seems to make sense to me

[Cosbydaf]

acrabperson Wrote:I hope you enjoyed reading my rant as much as I enjoyed writing it.

I certainly did! You brought up a lot of good points! It's nice to see someone who hates school like I do and isn't afraid to rant about it. I love reading rants, it's a good way to get to know someone's personality.

Quote:I'm 15 if you want to know.

Hey, I am too!

Quote:...maybe school would be better if I were fully human instead of part-crab. Those pincher things are a bitch.

LOL!

[WildFire]

You said you go to Central. What grade?. Im freshman.

[Will]

acrabperson Wrote:Once again, thank you for the comments.

Heart of shadows:
Thank you, it seems that kirby is held in pretty high regard around here.

wsgosset:
That's an interesting quote. I'm not familiar with torvalds and his ideas, but I do share his enjoyment of programming.

...am I a traitor for preferring *bsd?

Traitor? BSD is free too. The BSD license just isn't so good as the GPL.

[mudkip liek]

acrabperson Wrote:instead of forcing them to solve fake, meaningless problems posed by teachers.

EXACTLY!!!

[sarcasm] Ooooh, x2 – x – 2 = 0 is really going to help me in the future. It's such an important lesson I have to learn because if I don't, I will lead a meaningless life.[/sarcasm]

Oh, and a summary of what I learned today in school: *crickets chirping*

[acrabperson]

Pyro: I'm grade 10.

ok sorry to change the topic here

wsgosset Wrote:Traitor? BSD is free too. The BSD license just isn't so good as the GPL.

Heh, the traitor thing was a joke. But seriously, you just can't feel superior to other users anymore by simply using linux, with these new dists like ubuntu. Linux is supposed to be a pain in the ass. Ahh, at least gentoo is still around.

And about the licenses, I would rather release my code under the bsd license or a proprietary license than the gpl 90% of the time. The gpl causes problems related to dynamic linking, and is basically unacceptable for libraries (unless you are referring to the lgpl as well, which I don't particularly like either). However they are all good licenses for certain applications. Personally, I don't care what people do with the code that I release. If they gain from my work, good for them. I don't care. If I did, I wouldn't have opensourced the code anyway.

Haha, wsgosset, I like you.

[Will]

acrabperson Wrote:Pyro: I'm grade 10.

ok sorry to change the topic here

wsgosset Wrote:Traitor? BSD is free too. The BSD license just isn't so good as the GPL.

Heh, the traitor thing was a joke. But seriously, you just can't feel superior to other users anymore by simply using linux, with these new dists like ubuntu. Linux is supposed to be a pain in the ass. Ahh, at least gentoo is still around.

And about the licenses, I would rather release my code under the bsd license or a proprietary license than the gpl 90% of the time. The gpl causes problems related to dynamic linking, and is basically unacceptable for libraries (unless you are referring to the lgpl as well, which I don't particularly like either). However they are all good licenses for certain applications. Personally, I don't care what people do with the code that I release. If they gain from my work, good for them. I don't care. If I did, I wouldn't have opensourced the code anyway.

Haha, wsgosset, I like you.

The problem with that is that a proprietary company could develop BSD-licensed code faster than the community could and sell it, which would slow development on the free version.

[acrabperson]

wsgosset Wrote:The problem with that is that a proprietary company could develop BSD-licensed code faster than the community could and sell it, which would slow development on the free version.

Can you elaborate?

The BSD and GPL licenses follow different philosophies. Remember that opensource projects could have the intention of benefiting everyone, including proprietary companies, as much as end users.

Ok, I am completely hijacking my own thread (my apologies), but some classic unix-related debate never hurt anyone.

edit: removed some incorrect information

[WildFire]

Dont worry, it happens all the time, it's a common thing. No need to apologize. You can bash it if you want, sooner or later it pretty much turns into something completely different, something I've seen one too many times.

(To your post a couple of posts ago.)

Im freshman (gah i hate green, but I cant really say yellow's any better) It'd be cool if wed get to see eachother, since we go to the same school, Im the only other member on SS who goes to Central besdies you, so I guess it'd be kinda cool. Ever since i moved away from Little Freak14 a year ago, I havent been in the same school as another member.