I'm starting my own country, anyone want to join?

[John Tuttle]

A band of pineapple could probably launch an amphibious assault, invasion, and occupation of your island if you only use those defenses.

The aforementioned static defenses, ie bunkers, dugouts, would provide little defense from arial attacks, the typical first stage of any modern invasion. Obviously, it would be hard to acquire SAM systems, but nothing is impossible with the right amount of money and contacts in the Russian weapon industry. Beyond that, it would be best to maintain a air force of a couple UAVs for surveillance purposes and even ground and naval attacks. Explosive, wether hand-held grenades or larger items, are not only cheap but can be used from many roles, from clearing mines to blowing up enemy vehicles. To defeat tanks, dig deep ditches and pile up the dirt on the side opposite of which the enemy will attack from, since, even if they are able to clear a gap, you can concentrate your fire on that area (the Soviets used this at Kursk to stop the Panzers). Finally, the best defensive positions are ones that cannot be seen, so use plenty of camouflage and inflatable decoys resembling tanks, artillery guns, etc to draw enemy fire away from you actual positions.

decoys:
http://www.shapeintl.com/military-decoy/military.php

Finally, when it comes to jungle or urban warfare, it's best to study the Vietnamese and Russians respectively.

[Amortisatie]

O plz, we has awesome defense systems

[John Tuttle]

Rebelnerd Wrote:

Wolfeh Wrote:In a realistic situation, I think you might have a semi-difficult time getting people to live there if you had regular war-related drills with civilians. I'm not really sure how many people will actually voluntarily live in a place where they think there would be a high chance of danger or war.

On the other hand, it might attract exactly the kind of people we'll need, at least initially.

another defensive measure that might help would be to weigh down oxygen tanks and rebreather stations at strategic intervals at the ocean floor within the island's territorial waters. In the event of an amphibious invasion, scuba divers could operate underwater indefinitely, planting mines and sinking ships. If the tanks were concealed, the enemy would have to divert forces from the mainland assault to hunt through acres of rocky, seaweed-clogged ocean looking for fake boulders.

The problem is that any respectably navy has the capability to defeat simple naval mines. The Royal Navy has arguably the best naval mine technology, but it is vastly expensive. More effective would be stealthy UAVs, which require no pilots and can fire missiles. Sure, they aren't widely available at the moment, but just wait for the Russian to make them and sell them to the Chinese, who will then copy them and make millions of them.

[John Tuttle]

Rebelnerd Wrote:two central bunkers with a connecting tunnel would be good. and since a country that small could be bombed easily, don't bother with external long-range guns. install some sunken missile tubes under fake rocks. nothing fancy, just remote-guided solid fuel rockets with a basic fragmentation charge. buy some cheap cameras and put them on the nose, and direct them from inside the bunkers. once the island starts making more money, start building silos underwater. maybe even some submerged escape tunnels with a rapid-inflating life raft tied down at the end of each one.
i'm having way too much fun with this...

It's better to have multiple interconnected bunkers, each being able to perform a couple tasks than two really large ones, since otherwise a lucky bunker-buster style bomb could remove 50% of your capability. I agree AA guns are largely innefective at shooting aircraft, but they are cheap and can be modified to be used as tank-killing land guns.

[Rebelnerd]

Dude, I know we couldn't stand up to a modern navy. We never could, even if we had the most advanced technology in the world. A single MOAB could wipe an island that size right off the map. If we ever were targed for invasion by the US navy, the best plan would be to get the hell out of there.
But as long as we don't open fire on a US warship or start shelting pirates, they probably won't bother worrying about us. Pirates and smugglers would probably be the biggest legitimate threat, and they're not going to have the technology for a modern aerial assault.

[John Tuttle]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Dude, I know we couldn't stand up to a modern navy. We never could, even if we had the most advanced technology in the world. A single MOAB could wipe an island that size right off the map. If we ever were targed for invasion by the US navy, the best plan would be to get the hell out of there.
But as long as we don't open fire on a US warship or start shelting pirates, they probably won't bother worrying about us. Pirates and smugglers would probably be the biggest legitimate threat, and they're not going to have the technology for a modern aerial assault.

I know, after all, all any nation would have to do is launch a a couple cruise missiles from mile away and its bye bye island, but my UAV system could be effective against even small pirate ships (the Israelis have a similar system.) Either that or carefully placed buoys which contain some sort of radar to detect ships in their area and take pictures.

BTW the last time I checked, you were the one planning a missile system to rival Gibralter .

[Rebelnerd]

Eh, nothing fancy. Just big pipes full of solid fuel with a grenade at the end and remote controlled fins. Should work pretty well against lightly armored boats, and the psychological effect would be pretty intense too.
How about this: the UAVs do scouting and target painting, and then the missiles finish the job. That there's teamwork...

[psychopath]

I think we could launch a small boat with a couple of guys(with guns) whenever we see a small boat approaching the island. If they're hostile, we could use all the weapon systems rebel has planned.

When we have money, a single chopper on the island could be useful too. We could use it in emergencies or at times when we need to transport people on and off the island very quickly.

[John Tuttle]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Eh, nothing fancy. Just big pipes full of solid fuel with a grenade at the end and remote controlled fins. Should work pretty well against lightly armored boats, and the psychological effect would be pretty intense too.
How about this: the UAVs do scouting and target painting, and then the missiles finish the job. That there's teamwork...

Hehe, ok. Should send any marauder a message!

[Rebelnerd]

We just need to remember that we'll be dirt poor at first. So any defense system can't just be fancy, it has to be practical. As in keeping fuel costs to a minimum. What would be best is something that you can build once, keep on station for a long time without maintenance, and deploy quickly. We don't want to have to keep buying more fuel after every UAV patrol.
Although, if they were electric, then we could rig up some kind of wave-powered generator and keep charging them up indefinitely. And it would be eco-friendly too!

[psychopath]

We need one of these tidal converters


But that's probably too expensive, lol. So we could get some wind turbines and solar cells.

[John Tuttle]

Rebelnerd Wrote:We just need to remember that we'll be dirt poor at first. So any defense system can't just be fancy, it has to be practical. As in keeping fuel costs to a minimum. What would be best is something that you can build once, keep on station for a long time without maintenance, and deploy quickly. We don't want to have to keep buying more fuel after every UAV patrol.
Although, if they were electric, then we could rig up some kind of wave-powered generator and keep charging them up indefinitely. And it would be eco-friendly too!

Or you could use some sort of buoy system. Around ports and other parts of the island, maybe a mile to a mile and a half out, you could place buoys. Each buoy would probably have either a solar cell or some sort of water turbine for power, a camera, and a rudimentary computer. Some buoys would have sonar or rader to detect surface ships in a certain radius, and would rely the location to any buoy by the ship, which could then either alert a UAV or take pictures of the vessel and rely them back to the island.

[Rebelnerd]

i think it would be a while before we could afford a radar system, but the idea of a bouy-based recon system is good. the bouys should be like naval mines though, a few feet under the water. pirates aren't going to have sonar, so if we cover them in algae and stuff, it should conceal them.
As for power, how about building some sort of wall structure that funnels incoming waves into a small focal point, and put a generator turbine there? it would be a ton of power, but it's not a huge island we're talking about. or it could just be an emergency system.

[Thought Criminal]

can I apply for asylum?

[Swift]

Can I draft up a constitution? I haz no homework.

[Rebelnerd]

sure, but we've got to all agree on it.

[Swift]

Also, I made a shitty flag.

[Thought Criminal]

fail

this is my vote

[psychopath]

but that's the SS flag, I'd rather not ruin SS's pride(lol).

I'm not sure if radar would be that expensive, I've heard of groups using it for security. I guess we would end up using the most efficient method, buoys sound good.

About the wave turbine thing, that actually sounds like a good idea. I don't think it'll provide too much power though, unless the waves somehow go through continuously. So yeah it could be an emergency system or one of multiple sources of power.

Maybe our country will inherit the Earth, after all the others end up running out of resources and killing each other.

[Rebelnerd]

How's this for an idea: dig a deep pit in the center of the island, maybe about 6-8 feet wide and twenty deep, and stick a giant gun barrel in it. A socket would keep the top end stationary, but the bottom could be manipulated with motors and pistons. drop a mortar shell in and it will fire faster and further than a normal-sized one, and it's a hell of a lot more efficient than buying new rockets after every launch. we could test fire all different types of shells at different angles and plug the results into a computer, so that when the enemy boats reached a certain bouy line, we'd know how to hit them with reasonable accuracy. And since the hole would undoubtedly go below the water level, we could add some corrosion-resistant plating to the barrel and use the seawater as natural coolant, so it could be fired rapidly without overheating or cookoff.
Rather than repeatedly buying expensive missiles, it would be one big cost, and after that just a bunch of cheap shells. And the part where the barrel sticks out of the ground could be concealed/shielded with a fake rock when it's not in use.

[Thought Criminal]

that sounds like a good idea. but where would we get the mortars? someone is bound to get suspicious if we are ordering them.
or could we make the ourselves?

[psychopath]

Rebelnerd Wrote:How's this for an idea: dig a deep pit in the center of the island, maybe about 6-8 feet wide and twenty deep, and stick a giant gun barrel in it. A socket would keep the top end stationary, but the bottom could be manipulated with motors and pistons. drop a mortar shell in and it will fire faster and further than a normal-sized one, and it's a hell of a lot more efficient than buying new rockets after every launch. we could test fire all different types of shells at different angles and plug the results into a computer, so that when the enemy boats reached a certain bouy line, we'd know how to hit them with reasonable accuracy. And since the hole would undoubtedly go below the water level, we could add some corrosion-resistant plating to the barrel and use the seawater as natural coolant, so it could be fired rapidly without overheating or cookoff.
Rather than repeatedly buying expensive missiles, it would be one big cost, and after that just a bunch of cheap shells. And the part where the barrel sticks out of the ground could be concealed/shielded with a fake rock when it's not in use.

If we do enough tests and plug all the results into a computer, we could make a whole map of points that could be hit around the island, and the more tests we do the more points we could hit, and maybe if we use that with radar, we could have a neat little system where we know exactly where to fire and also be able to hit it.

[Rebelnerd]

That's the idea, anyway. It probably wouldn't be devastatingly expensive; most of the money would go towards paying for a strong enough metal pipe. But since most mortars are smoothbore, that's all we'd really need to buy. After that, we just dig a hole and start playing around with fin-stabilized shells. black powder is relatively cheap.

[aaaaaaasd]

Rebelnerd Wrote:That's the idea, anyway. It probably wouldn't be devastatingly expensive; most of the money would go towards paying for a strong enough metal pipe. But since most mortars are smoothbore, that's all we'd really need to buy. After that, we just dig a hole and start playing around with fin-stabilized shells. black powder is relatively cheap.

You're having far too much fun with this, aren't you?

[Amortisatie]

Maybe we could invest in a u-boat squad, maybe 20 boats to patrol the waters and take out any small threats that the mortar can't reach?

The boats could have mini mortars on a rotating platform and a dual heavy machine gun to take out air threats and lightly armored craft. They should be smaller and faster than regular u-boats and have a crew of 3. There also should be a regular sized u-boat where the fleet commander is, which would have 2 dual machine guns and a couple of cheap depth charges

My

[Rebelnerd]

XplodingNoggin Wrote:You're having far too much fun with this, aren't you?

Are you kidding? If we actually had an island I would totally want to fucking do this. And it would be more fun than I've ever had in my whole goddamn life!

Quote:Maybe we could invest in a u-boat squad, maybe 20 boats to patrol the waters and take out any small threats that the mortar can't reach?

Well, obviously we'd need some boats seeing as it is an island, and arming them would be a good idea.
But remember, we don't want to attack anybody. For a country that size, violence should be a last resort and we'd want to avoid it whenever possible. There's really no reason why we should have attack craft; our military should be primarily defensive. If someone is outside the range of our most powerful defensive weapons, then we shouldn't be attacking them unless we're absolutely sure that they mean us harm. We don't want to get involved in any battles outside our own territorial waters.
Besides, sending a small interception fleet outside the kill zone to take on a ship full of experianced, well-armed pirates could be a bad move. Better to fight within range of the island itself.

[Amortisatie]

Damn I really wanted to lead an armada of u-boats

I mean that we should use intercept craft for small-medium pirate ships, I wouldn't want to take on a frigate with u-boats

we could also use them to escort cargo ships out into safe waters, and maybe mount a .50 cal sniper on a few of them

[Rebelnerd]

Amortisatie Wrote:Damn I really wanted to lead an armada of u-boats

Well, take it up with the chief Military Tactic Strategist.

Quote:we could also use them to escort cargo ships out into safe waters, and maybe mount a .50 cal sniper on a few of them

Nice idea. Charge freighters for protection against pirates.

[Thought Criminal]

we should just become pirates ourselves

[Amortisatie]

I dont want all the world's superpower's navies on our backs :>_>: