Depression

[sfslol]

So according to my physiologist I'm depressed and have anxiety, and want me to take antidepressants. However I feel like it has been apart of my personality as long as I can remember and I can't imagine a life living like a happy regular citizen. The anxiety is really troubling me, however my so called depression has never bothered me that much and I've always though it was just the way I was and how everybody else felt. I rarely have problems laughing and I don't feel hopeless or suicidal, the only things I feel is like something heavy inside my chest and that I have troubles concentrating, sleep and I feel very tired all the time and can sleep 12+ hours a day if I don't force myself awake.

I've always felt like I was more intelligent than people on my age, so while others were figuring out features on Facebook at 12 years old I was studying computer programming and how to make my own applications. I've never felt appreciated in social settings either, and have never been a popular member of my friend group. Every time I was hanging out with them I felt like I didn't relate to them, and had to kind of fake my personality. I didn't really understand how you were supposed to act. Eventually I stopped hanging out with them so much (I also moved), and sat home alone pretty much all the time besides going to school (same school). I think it was at this point (when I moved) I got depressed and have been for the last 5 - 6 years.

Currently, I have serious troubles attending school because of anxiety. I've recently been arguing a lot with myself about if I should start taking antidepressants or not. I've always liked being by myself compared to hanging out with others, and I don't want to end up like thinking and being like them. I don't want to think more positive and less negative, and would rather be realistic and depressed than blind.

So to sum up, am I really depressed and how will antidepressants change me?
Thank you.

[Rule_BreakerXVIII]

Yeah, sounds like depression. It isn't always sadness or being suicidal, but this numbness and lethargy sounds exactly like what I went through in middle and high school. I didn't realize it was depression while I was going through it, but when I look back it's pretty apparent.

I'd like to warn you that I'm biased against medication for so-called 'mental issues'...unless there is literally no other option. This is because in most cases the disorders are nothing but coping mechanisms from years and years of being in an (to put it simply) inadequate environment. In other words, all those emotional and/or mental quirks are symptoms of a disease of sorts- the disease of an environment unsuited to one's needs. IMO the issue to be fixed isn't the depression, but the environment which is causing it. Medication will only hide the symptoms; it won't fix what's causing them.

Is your depression caused by your surroundings (i.e inadequate emotional support, a sense of loneliness and isolation, abuse, etc.) or your internal chemistry being off the whack? I assumed the first from your post.

[SoulRiser]

You might find this interesting:
http://forums.school-survival.net/showth...?tid=36042

Antidepressants have different effects depending on which type they are, and how they interact with your specific brain will vary also... so pretty much the only way to find out for sure is to try it, but make sure you can easily stop taking them again if it's not working out.

I feel similar to how you described most of the time lately, except for the anxiety. I think it's just a natural reaction to your environment.

Maybe specific anti-anxiety meds would be better, since that seems to be the only real problem here?

[sfslol]

(12-16-2015 08:13 PM)Rule_BreakerXVIII Wrote:  Yeah, sounds like depression. It isn't always sadness or being suicidal, but this numbness and lethargy sounds exactly like what I went through in middle and high school. I didn't realize it was depression while I was going through it, but when I look back it's pretty apparent.

I'd like to warn you that I'm biased against medication for so-called 'mental issues'...unless there is literally no other option. This is because in most cases the disorders are nothing but coping mechanisms from years and years of being in an (to put it simply) inadequate environment. In other words, all those emotional and/or mental quirks are symptoms of a disease of sorts- the disease of an environment unsuited to one's needs. IMO the issue to be fixed isn't the depression, but the environment which is causing it. Medication will only hide the symptoms; it won't fix what's causing them.

Is your depression caused by your surroundings (i.e inadequate emotional support, a sense of loneliness and isolation, abuse, etc.) or your internal chemistry being off the whack? I assumed the first from your post.

This is exactly how I'm thinking. I feel like taking the medicine is like covering up who I really am, what I find negative here in life and making me fit where I don't belong. I am very sure that my depression is caused of my surroundings and my situation, and the feeling of having no power to do anything about it. Even though I don't really have anyone to talk to I don't really care that much about emotional support, because all people do is feel sorry for me and it's not like I'm sad or anything. The only place I've felt comfortable sharing my thoughts is on this website, because I feel like people can relate to me and my problems.

[vonunov]

In getting rid of depression there is no need to lose prudence and realism. Drugs affect people differently and there are different types of them available for this purpose, but in general I haven't seen them drastically change who someone is (cocktails are another story, lol) but rather only improve the outlook and handling of difficulties, or, say, lifting an impenetrable cloud to allow room for other therapy.

I'm not a shrink, I just know people.

It would help to understand how the meds work. Basically, the effect is to increase and maintain the presence of some neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, [nor]epinephrine. If you look these up you can see the effects that their activity has and see the purposes of the meds.

There are significant side effects to many antidepressants; if you don't feel that you're in danger because of this issue, I suggest instead asking your psych about cognitive behavioral therapy. It sounds like meds at the moment would be overkill, especially if nothing else has been tried yet. You seem to be holding up and I don't see the need to be drastic. That said, I think you'll find that depression is not useful to your personality, and your values and clarity won't suffer for getting rid of it.

[Miller0700]

Different anti-depressants work for in various ways depending on the person. Sometimes they're caused by the environment, but sometimes they're caused by chemical imbalances in the brain or genetics. Mine was, and if you can rule out school than its probably this. I'd see a doctor about it anyway even if you don't like psychologists.

Summed up here:

Cracked Wrote:#3. Antidepressants Don't Work
Everyone's heard that antidepressants are a scam. And not just from Sunshine Flower, the hippie who runs the local food co-op, but from the mainstream media. Often it's accompanied by a scary statistic that says more people in America are on antidepressants than water, or a commentary about how in the good old days people didn't need Big Pharma shoving pills down their throats. You even see it in pop culture. Garden State is a movie about a man whose life improves after he stops taking his prescribed medications, and we all know that Hollywood would never lie to us.

First of all, depression rates are rising because we're getting better at diagnosing it. It's the same reason a lot more people were identified as mentally handicapped after people stopped assuming a donkey kicked them in the head as a child.

It's true that in some cases antidepressants are not effective. That's because the human brain is immensely complicated, and we don't know much more about it than the monkeys knew about the monolith in 2001. You're trying to fix a biological computer, not a tangled Slinky -- of course the same treatment isn't going to work for everyone. But for some people antidepressants absolutely do help, and it's irresponsible to claim otherwise. It's like saying that because cancer screening doesn't have a 100 percent effective rate there's no point in getting checked.

The science behind antidepressants is complicated, heavily debated, and poorly understood. I'm not going to get into it, in part because any medicine beyond a splint is basically wizardry to me. But the real issue is that people misunderstand what antidepressants are supposed to accomplish. They're not magical feel-good drugs that wipe away all your problems just in time for you to win the big game; they're one part of a multifaceted treatment process. A long and tedious part -- it can take months of experimentation to determine what drug or drugs in what dosages are appropriate for each person, because again, brains are hard.

People who are anti-antidepressants say things like half of all people who try them quit after four months because they're not getting results. Well, maybe that's because it can take six weeks just to figure out if they're working, never mind the time spent fiddling with the prescription to get it just right. If you're expecting to cure a major mental illness in less time than it takes to play an NFL season, you may be a different kind of crazy.

The point of antidepressants isn't to solve all of your problems; it's to keep you from feeling overwhelmed so you can solve them yourself.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-facts-ever...epression/

[vonunov]

This is a good read, if you think there's a problem to fix, or even for curiosity. EPUB PDF

[sfslol]

I've read a bit on depression and how antidepressants works, and I feel like even if I'm taking them I will still be unhappy inside. I feel frustrated all the time, even when I'm home and relaxing in my room. It's like the aura I'm in is cursed or something, but only I can feel it. Everybody else seem to be living just fine and keep a stable mood, meanwhile I get more and more frustrated for each and every day. I don't know if this is how it works, but I think I understood antidepressants as a pill of keeping good emotions in the body longer than normally. At least the antidepressants I have contains reuptake inhabitors which delays the removal of serotonin in the chemical synapse. When you experience a lot of stress, pressure and frustration the body produces less serotonin, which makes less serotonin reach the chemical synapse therefor making me feel unhappier because of the lack of serotonin.

I feel like it would be highly unnatural to take them, because I am really sick and tired of my situation, location and people in general. I don't want to ignore these things because they really bothers me. Even though there is nearly nothing I can do about it, I just feel so uncomfortable that living becomes a burden.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:nearly nothing I can do about it

What can you do about it, though? Maybe focus on that. The book Vonunov linked is actually very interesting, I've been reading it. Basically if you think there's nothing you can do to make your situation better, then it makes sense that you'd feel hopeless and frustrated. But if you can find even one tiny thing that you can actually do, it helps. Actually even doing completely unrelated things helps, because while you're doing things, you're not thinking about how crap your situation is.

Basically, if you can find a way to make your situation better, do that. If you can't... being depressed, however realistic it may be, isn't really helpful either, is it? Even ignoring the problems and focusing on doing things can make your perception of the situation better, even if it doesn't change the actual situation. And technically, your entire experience of life goes through your perception anyway, and changing other people is nearly impossible, so changing your perception is often the only thing you can really do anyway (other than, say, just moving away or something, which you're probably not legally allowed to do yet).

When I was depressed in school, it made me feel better to do tiny disruptive things, like writing a note on the desk about how much school sucks, even to stupid things like undoing a random screw on some object people use. Technically, it's insignificant, but it's something to do that helps get past the general feelings of powerlessness. Starting this site helped a lot as well.

[sfslol]

(12-18-2015 08:34 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  

Quote:nearly nothing I can do about it

What can you do about it, though? Maybe focus on that. The book Vonunov linked is actually very interesting, I've been reading it. Basically if you think there's nothing you can do to make your situation better, then it makes sense that you'd feel hopeless and frustrated. But if you can find even one tiny thing that you can actually do, it helps. Actually even doing completely unrelated things helps, because while you're doing things, you're not thinking about how crap your situation is.

Basically, if you can find a way to make your situation better, do that. If you can't... being depressed, however realistic it may be, isn't really helpful either, is it? Even ignoring the problems and focusing on doing things can make your perception of the situation better, even if it doesn't change the actual situation. And technically, your entire experience of life goes through your perception anyway, and changing other people is nearly impossible, so changing your perception is often the only thing you can really do anyway (other than, say, just moving away or something, which you're probably not legally allowed to do yet).

When I was depressed in school, it made me feel better to do tiny disruptive things, like writing a note on the desk about how much school sucks, even to stupid things like undoing a random screw on some object people use. Technically, it's insignificant, but it's something to do that helps get past the general feelings of powerlessness. Starting this site helped a lot as well.

I do often try to be impulsive and go outside by myself just to be alone with my thoughts. I feel trapped because my life is dependent on going to school, get an education, a job and moving out eventually. I feel extremely anxious, weird and uncomfortable doing all of these things and one of my biggest fears is to end up being like everybody else.

I don't really care about other people to be honest, not that I don't care about their well-being but I just have no interest discussing the party next weekend or how many friends I got on Facebook. And the social pressure when going to school or having a job is just too much for me. Most times I talk to people or even my family I end up having nothing to say, because I feel like we have nothing in common at all meanwhile others just bond out of the blue.

I just feel so different and weird, why does the society want me to be a socializing hard working person when I prefer being a lonely thinker and why is there no place for me to be myself? The world is very messed up this way.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:Most times I talk to people or even my family I end up having nothing to say, because I feel like we have nothing in common at all meanwhile others just bond out of the blue.

I know that feeling, I get that all the time too. I mostly listen to other people and don't talk much. I think that makes some people uncomfortable too.

Quote:I just feel so different and weird, why does the society want me to be a socializing hard working person when I prefer being a lonely thinker and why is there no place for me to be myself? The world is very messed up this way.

Yup, most things are designed for extroverts, and don't really take introverts into account. Especially not ones with social anxiety as well.

But there is a place for you to be yourself, you just need to either find it or make/take it. Be selfish, take what you need, and screw what anyone else thinks.

[Cianna200]

I can empathize with you pretty well.

[Rule_BreakerXVIII]

(12-18-2015 10:23 AM)sfslol Wrote:  I do often try to be impulsive and go outside by myself just to be alone with my thoughts. I feel trapped because my life is dependent on going to school, get an education, a job and moving out eventually. I feel extremely anxious, weird and uncomfortable doing all of these things and one of my biggest fears is to end up being like everybody else.

I can empathize with feeling trapped, because to get out of this situation the only thing you can do is the very thing you don't want to, i.e studying. And in my situation it translates to not only becoming a part of the rat race I've scorned for so long, but beating it.

In order to move out and become independent.. (My actual goal is to cut off contact with my parents. Completely. This means no money from them, too, because I have no doubt they'll use what I 'owe' them to intrude into my life again and again.) I'll have to make sacrifices, such as walking on the path which has disgusted me so far. I don't think there is an easy way out which includes me keeping my pride intact anymore.

...The point to my semi-narcissistic rant being, that you define yourself. Not what you do for a living. Not what you have to do to secure your freedom. I think this post says it better than I am trying to.

[TheCancer]

Some medicine has helped me help myself but I decided I needed it. Of course, I don't really know but I'm pretty sure if you don't want to turn to chemical assistance it's less likely to work.

[vonunov]

(12-18-2015 08:34 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  When I was depressed in school, it made me feel better to do tiny disruptive things, like writing a note on the desk about how much school sucks, even to stupid things like undoing a random screw on some object people use. Technically, it's insignificant, but it's something to do that helps get past the general feelings of powerlessness. Starting this site helped a lot as well.

This helped too. Some kind of silly "sabotage" or political disruption like raising a stink about whether we had to stand and say the Pledge or whatever. I never spent very long convinced that I could really change anything but these little things helped the spirit.

[stevehein]

I am looking at the Burns book. I read the original version of it a long time ago. I actually used to be a big fan of it till I realized humans have emotional needs.

Also I want to say that probably the person I know who knew the most about depression, my ex gf Priscilla, IE cheeselover, hated cognitive therapy. And she was almost always right about everything. I see that more now looking back. Still, as much as she hated it, I think she would agree with some of what Burns says. She was too smart not to see the truth in something that actually was true.

Anyhow, I plan to write more about the FG book but I want to show everyone this line cuz it motivated / energized me, to start writing this post....

--
Like many adolescents, she seemed to carry a grudge against all mankind, and insisted there was no point in living any longer.
--

Does this bother anyone else? Or is it just me that is really sick of hearing teenagers put down and invalidated this way?

Thanks to Von for posting the links to the book. I was able to convert the EPUB book to text so I can do searches on it.

I found some interesting things already.

For example he never mentions the term "emotional support"...

or "emotional needs"

and he never mentions the word invalidation

I agree with a lot of what he says by the way, but these things kind of light me on fire...

I will probably look later for what he says about society and school but I feel pretty sure he sees nothing wrong with either one.

And in the intro to the book he uses the quote from Shakespeare:

“There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."

hmm. what about rape?

What about hitting a baby? What about abandoning a baby and letting it die?

Does the baby's thinking make him feel scared when he is hit or abandoned?

What would help the baby more? Decent parents or cognitive therapy?

And yeah I am feeling a bit sarcastic.

I also feel a bit unvalued cuz so far I havent noticed where anyone mentioned my name as a source to refer to about depression.

Just for the record I found this thread cuz I was thinking of CJ and I was looking at what she had posted in recently. So thanks CJ

[stevehein]

SR said

If you can't... being depressed, however realistic it may be, isn't really helpful either, is it? Even ignoring the problems and focusing on doing things can make your perception of the situation better, even if it doesn't change the actual situation.

---

I believe depression is helpful, or it can be. A brilliant teen I knew named Olga Tsybert aka Ocean once told me that depression is a time for thinking about what is important.

I might put it this way - depression can help us focus on what we need and what we are missing that is causing us pain and not providing us emotional "fuel".

With no fuel, there is no energy. Understanding, empathy, validation can be sources of "fuel." Even rest can be. And depression can help us rest and sleep if we are not forced to do something unnatural like get up and go to fucking school. I just got done sleeping a hell of a lot this past week and I felt better after I did, with no drugs and no cognitive therapy and without any real emotional support either. What I did have at least is a place where no one hassled me, abused me, pressured me, invalidated me etc. And a place where I could do pretty much what I wanted when I wanted for pretty much as long as I wanted - and a few people to have half way decent conversations with or at least some convos that were not painful, even if not highly supportive. So this helped me out of my isolation. I definitely get too isolated sometimes - that is one reason I literally moved to a new city where there are lots more intelligent and well-traveled people. And I have been staying in a hostel where there is pretty much always someone to talk to that is not controlling me or causing me some kind of pain. And there is a swimming pool haha. And I have my bike.

So I would have to say that ignoring your problems is not what I would suggest (sorry to SR) - instead thinking about your emotional needs is what I would suggest. And then, after you do that, then I'd say the cognitive stuff will be a lot more helpful - but on its own it is probably just going to basically be "faking it." Cuz your life as a teen actually is shitty and depressing and you are pretty much powerless and not accepted or understood - that is why you come here. This site can literally save your life, as I believe mine can.

But while people here try hard, they don't always give the best advice. Still they care and that helps and they are pretty understanding here. I'm glad again that SR created this site and keeps it alive. So thanks SR and please let me know how u feel about what I wrote. Im afraid u might feel a bit criticized or defensive or something. And I value u. And feel a huge amount of respect for u. hug if u want one - and btw i wrote on our chat today...

and also I agree that doing something does help me - sometimes just action or distraction helps we might say - yet I really really believe it is most helpful to identify very clearly your feelings and emotional needs.

here are a couple links

http://www.eqi.org/cnfs.htm
http://www.eqi.org/needs.htm

this might be helpful too - about why i dont say "negative" feelings anymore

http://www.eqi.org/hpet

[sfslol]

So to update this thread, I started taking antidepressants about 2 weeks ago because I just don't give a fuck enough to be depressed anymore. I've felt so empty and troubled for the last few years that I eventually decided that I don't care how I end up, because anything is better than continuing like this. The only hope I've had is that one day I'll meet someone that likes the same things as I do and thinks the same away, but it's pretty faded to be honest. It wasn't easy giving up everything called self respect and dignity to take that first pill, it was like accepting that who I am is not worthy of society and can not succeed.

[stevehein]

i wanna make a correction... i said i was a big fan of burns and cbt type stuff till i realized we have emotional needs..... but this morning i realized that it was really until i started listening to depressed teenagers.

listening to depressed, self harming/suicidal teens changed my life. it made me see reality, society much more clearly

i believe cbt can help someone like my friend radovan - he is out of teen prison - he can make changes, really big changes in his life, like move to a totally different country and get a job and make enough money to save it and travel and live in cheap hostels like i do. he could also stay in homes for free like i have done with couchsurfing. what is holding him back is not the laws, but a lot of his thinking.

but his case, his situation is very different than for a teen prisoner who is forced or coerced or whatever u want to call it into going to buildings called schools. and physically prevented from leaving the places called their homes and their countries or in some cases from leaving jails or so called mental hospitals.

http://eqi.org/tp.htm teen prison

[stevehein]

".... accepting that who I am is not worthy of society and can not succeed. "


this is an example of how cbt can help u...

ie examining ur beliefs, your thoughts -- i was gonna say checking them against reality - but for u this *is* reality -- it is the reality u have lived so far

but i promise u there is another reality.

i have lived different realities. i live a different reality each time i go to a different home, a different hostel a different country. i have been to about 60 countires, stayed in probably 100 homes, and slept in several hundred hostels.

for me the environment makes about 99 percent of the difference. but i am the important and critical 1 percent. i can decide to leave. to not think like everyone else. to not believe what everyone else is telling me.

one thing i saw in burns' new book is the term bibliotherapy. i like that. reading can save ur life and ur self esteem.

i listened to some tapes on self esteem by nathaniel branden. they helped me a lot.

that is something u can do while still in teen prison.

and identifying ur feelings, the sources and causes of ur pain and identifying ur emotional needs and seeing how pple constantly invalidate u and cut u down and discourage u are also things u can do while in teen prison.

and learning about invalidation is another thing... here is a link

http://www.eqi.org/invalid.htm

and here is my link to my writing on depression

http://www.eqi.org/depress1.htm

good luck

u can write me directly if u want via email -- my contact info is on my website.

steve

[Ilija.m]

(12-16-2015 02:48 PM)sfslol Wrote:  So according to my physiologist I'm depressed and have anxiety, and want me to take antidepressants. However I feel like it has been apart of my personality as long as I can remember and I can't imagine a life living like a happy regular citizen. The anxiety is really troubling me, however my so called depression has never bothered me that much and I've always though it was just the way I was and how everybody else felt. I rarely have problems laughing and I don't feel hopeless or suicidal, the only things I feel is like something heavy inside my chest and that I have troubles concentrating, sleep and I feel very tired all the time and can sleep 12+ hours a day if I don't force myself awake.

I've always felt like I was more intelligent than people on my age, so while others were figuring out features on Facebook at 12 years old I was studying computer programming and how to make my own applications. I've never felt appreciated in social settings either, and have never been a popular member of my friend group. Every time I was hanging out with them I felt like I didn't relate to them, and had to kind of fake my personality. I didn't really understand how you were supposed to act. Eventually I stopped hanging out with them so much (I also moved), and sat home alone pretty much all the time besides going to school (same school). I think it was at this point (when I moved) I got depressed and have been for the last 5 - 6 years.

Currently, I have serious troubles attending school because of anxiety. I've recently been arguing a lot with myself about if I should start taking antidepressants or not. I've always liked being by myself compared to hanging out with others, and I don't want to end up like thinking and being like them. I don't want to think more positive and less negative, and would rather be realistic and depressed than blind.

So to sum up, am I really depressed and how will antidepressants change me?
Thank you.

Sorry to hear that hoping you get better soon