The financial sector is great for dropouts.

[Gaiyara]

If:
- you're good at math (you can handle semi-advanced statistics and probability)
- you find economics interesting
- you don't like to work with other people all the time (although you do need some basic people skills)

then you should consider a financial analysis job. You can get around the "education" bullshit by simply studying for tests and passing them. I wish they would do this for everything, sadly, they do not.

Great for corporate rich guys like Bobman as well.

This is really for Americans, but other countries they have equivalent tests. I'm planning on taking some of these (none of them require any school). This is not a complete list, there are MANY certifications you can get that require 0 education:

Financial Risk Manager I & II - When you take the exam, you have 5 years to satisfy the education requirement or the professional work requirement (just get a basic portfolio management job). You need 2 years of work experience to get "chartholder" status which will allow you to put FRM after your name. If you don't satisfy the requirement within 5 years, they will revoke your test results.

Series 65 - A test that measures basic portfolio management skills, basic economics, basic corporate finance etc. This qualifies you to become a Registered Investment Advisor (RIA).

Series 63 - An ethics and law exam required for anyone that solicits securities.

Series 3 - An exam that qualifies you to manage commodities and futures securities.

Series 7 - This exam is much like series 65 except harder. This will qualify you to become a stockbroker. You need to be "sponsored" by an SRO in order to take the exam. If the exam proctors find out you're not sponsored, they'll revoke your exam results. The problem with this is that when you're sponsored, you're basically already hired for the job. You can put on your resume that you're studying for the exam and go around asking people to sponsor you. Obviously you need to demonstrate you're already knowledgeable so take any of the other exams first.

Certified Financial Analyst (CFA) I, II, & III - This is for hardcore people only. One of the hardest tests you'll take in your life The hardest test evar. You need a bachelor's degree or 4 years of work experience doing some type of financial analysis or portfolio management (see above). A recommended study time for all 3 exams is 500+ hours. You'll be qualified to do almost any financial analysis at all as well as have good accounting skills. It's impossible to not be employed if you're a certified financial analyst.

You can also take classes online or buy some good books about trading specific securities like currencies (FOREX), stocks, commodities/futures etc.

By the way, if you're a financial analyst, you can set up your own firm and work for yourself independently. It's kind of a complex process registering with the state and stuff and obviously you have to be genuine, so just do well on your exams and maybe work for someone else for a while then you can set up your own office.

And of course, you don't need to go to business school to run your own business. My mom was pretty much a high school dropout in the Philippines and now, here she is in America running her own successful business. You're a tool if you're going to school.

[Sunbourn]

Hmm. I intend on dropping out of school. Perhaps I could start studying for that financial analysis job over the summer and take those certification tests whenever I can. I do after all find economics to be somewhat interesting. You wouldn't happen to have an books on this in ebook form? I don't have the money to buy any. |:

[Gaiyara]

Sorry but you should probably get the "real" books. :/ They're incredibly expensive though... Think of this as a good investment though. You spend a bunch of money for a few books and the money required to take the test, and you'll have a job.

www.aitraining.com

Look around at that site. Just save for the series 65 book which is like $130 or something (actually, you get 2 books for $130).

btw, This isn't too big of a commitment if you just do the series 65 and series 63. I think they recommend something like 50 hours of study for the series 65 which isn't bad. A lot of this stuff sounds hard, but it's just because financiers talk in a second language. Much of your time is spent getting used to vocabulary.

The series 63 isn't very long and will take half as long to study for. Unfortunately it's boring because it's about ethics and financial law... but that's important.

There's some boring shit no doubt. Anyway, I have my series 65 book here (about 450 pgs long)... Here's the table of contents:
1. fundamental analysis
2. basic economics
3. portfolio basics
4. technical analysis
5. fixed income basics
6. equities
7. corporate debt
8. u.s. government debt
9. municipal debt
10. money market debt
11. management companies
12. variable annuities
13. other investments
14. financial profile of a client to develop investment strategy
15. portfolio management styles and techniques
16. tax rules
17. retirement plans
18. trading market basics

[Sunbourn]

Hmmm. I probably won't be able to take the test until I am 16, and I suspect those book may be somewhat out of date by then. Plus, convincing my parents to get me those books would be a bitch, considering I'd probably just give up after a week. *sigh*

[Gaiyara]

Oh, I don't think you can even take the tests until you're 18... I'm not sure. Well, you can't even work in this kind of job until you're 18 anyway, so might as well wait. And they always update these books so ya... just wait. -__-

[Sunbourn]

Thanks anyway. I'll remember this in 2 - 3 years.

[xcriteria]

Hmm, interesting. We should compose a guide to jobs with that sort of entry requirement -- self-study and test -- there are definitely others, like pharmacy technician.

Gaiyara, assuming one passes the exams and takes care of whatever licensing requirements there are, what's the process of actually finding work and getting paid? What must you do to find the work, how competitive is it, what other qualifications or attributes do they look at, is it a regular job at a corporation or a freelance thing or both?

Also, what do you actually do in the job?

Advice regarding the books:
* if you can get them used cheap, do it; if you can't, that means you can probably resell them for near what you paid (unless they put out another edition.)
* if you are just curious, or are too young to actually take the test: find an used older edition, from however many years back to make it cheap. Then you can study and learn, and update your knowledge from a newer textbook when you're ready to take the test. Or find books covering similar topics at the library.

[SoulRiser]

This is win. Can I post this in the drop out articles section?

[psychopath]

SoulRiser Wrote:This is win. Can I post this in the drop out articles section?

Sorry but I can't give you permission for this

[SoulRiser]

lol.

[Desu]

xcriteria Wrote:Hmm, interesting. We should compose a guide to jobs with that sort of entry requirement -- self-study and test -- there are definitely others, like pharmacy technician.

Gaiyara, assuming one passes the exams and takes care of whatever licensing requirements there are, what's the process of actually finding work and getting paid? What must you do to find the work, how competitive is it, what other qualifications or attributes do they look at, is it a regular job at a corporation or a freelance thing or both?

Also, what do you actually do in the job?

Advice regarding the books:
* if you can get them used cheap, do it; if you can't, that means you can probably resell them for near what you paid (unless they put out another edition.)
* if you are just curious, or are too young to actually take the test: find an used older edition, from however many years back to make it cheap. Then you can study and learn, and update your knowledge from a newer textbook when you're ready to take the test. Or find books covering similar topics at the library.

A financial analyst will basically just go to an investing firm, an investment bank, a research firm etc. Just send them your resume then they call you in for an interview.

The job of a financial analyst is basically analyzing risk, and helping people meet financial goals. This is the financial sector, so it is quite competitive, however simply taking tests and getting certifications will put you ahead of a lot of people, especially if you enjoy what you do. Many people come into the industry because of the high salaries. You can get around this by (1) liking your job (2) requesting lower pay.

www.aitraining.com sells a book that talks about how to set up your own firm and work for yourself.

By the way if you're a dropout, it's going to be a little harder finding a job, so you'll need to get more certifications than other people just to show them you have a little initiative. You can also start investing for yourself like trading stocks or whatever in the marketplace then showing them your portfolio.

[Incollegenow]

This is something I may consider. It sounds like my kind of thing since I'm into mathematics and like to look at the big picture as opposed to memorizing facts. Plus, you can make a lot of money.

I like.

[Desu]

Ok guys I've been reading the information that www.aitraining.com sent me to become a broker. Guess what? It's so easy, and many firms only require that you get your series 65 and series 63. Not only that, but it's easy to find someone to sponsor you and provide free training so you can pass your series 7.

Apparently small regional firms are your best bet. They require only a high school diploma.

You can also "work" for them from home. They give you a small salary, because most of the money you make will be from commissions. Essentially they give you an opportunity for unlimited income. If you want more money, then work harder. It's so win. They give you a lot of freedom.

And small regional firms are always hiring. It's hard to not find a job somewhere.

Also they give you access to the firm's research of course so you can make better investment decisions and what-not.

Looks like education isn't the key to success after all.

[jammoe]

This is something that really bothers me about the "personal survival" angle of a lot of anti-school politics. Organized crime is also a boom industry. There's a lot of money to be made in shaking down folks for protection money. I don't care. The financial industry is destructive and often doesn't even make a minimal contribution to society. We're seeing the effects of it right now. It's better to be poor than to be wealthy by harming others.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:The financial industry is destructive and often doesn't even make a minimal contribution to society. We're seeing the effects of it right now. It's better to be poor than to be wealthy by harming others.

+respect

While the economy is going to shit, some kinds of businesses are actually doing BETTER than before. The kinds of businesses that do better in recessions are the ones that are actually USEFUL for something... because people can't afford to spend so much money on pointless bullshit anymore. So if you wanna make money in a recession, find something that people need, and find a way to give it to them in an affordable way. This also works out of recession. In fact it's a really good thing to focus on in general.

[Desu]

jammoe Wrote:This is something that really bothers me about the "personal survival" angle of a lot of anti-school politics. Organized crime is also a boom industry. There's a lot of money to be made in shaking down folks for protection money. I don't care. The financial industry is destructive and often doesn't even make a minimal contribution to society. We're seeing the effects of it right now. It's better to be poor than to be wealthy by harming others.

I disagree. It depends on what kind of business you're going into, and you can be an ethical person in the financial industry. Sure, there are times you could get fired for it, but then that'd be doing just what you're saying.

The "effects" we're seeing right now are due to many irresponsible actions by certain powerful individuals and perhaps, bad enforcement of financial laws that were put in place to prevent these kinds of things.

For example, if you become an investment advisor, it's possible you could be making money through commission. In other words, you want the other person to spend as much money as possible so that you get money. This is a conflict of interest, and it could make you unethical, but certainly you can be a moral person if you want to, and actually care about your client instead of just making money.

So comparing this to crime is wrong.

[Shaunesha]

Administrator Wrote:Ok guys I've been reading the information that http://www.aitraining.com sent me to become a broker. Guess what? It's so easy, and many firms only require that you get your series 65 and series 63. Not only that, but it's easy to find someone to sponsor you and provide free training so you can pass your series 7.

Apparently small regional firms are your best bet. They require only a high school diploma.

You can also "work" for them from home. They give you a small salary, because most of the money you make will be from commissions. Essentially they give you an opportunity for unlimited income. If you want more money, then work harder. It's so win. They give you a lot of freedom.

And small regional firms are always hiring. It's hard to not find a job somewhere.

Also they give you access to the firm's research of course so you can make better investment decisions and what-not.

Looks like education isn't the key to success after all.

Heheh, perhaps not! In my opinion the typical broker salary is decent but not nearly as much as many in our culture make it out to be. I think part of the reason for this is the term "stockbroker" is often conflated with investment banker or someone else who's making money by actually investing money, not by advising and executing trades for others. But it's pretty cool that you can do this without much background - and of course it can lead to better paying opportunities if you have a natural talent...