Okay, let me start out by saying that whoever is unsticking this thread needs to stop. Seriously. This is a thread that is going to document a movement that DoA and I want to jump-start. It has the approval of Soul, the lead admin of SS, who seems to have stickied it when I asked her
I am going to sticky it again. Please don't change it. If you're going to unsticky it, don't you have at least a reason as to why it shouldn't be stickied? And please, let it be a legitimate concern.
Secondly, it's really comical seeing some of the amount of hypocrisy going on in this thread. No really, it is. Yes, I'll be the one to point that out, and I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are.
The ones who are acting hypocritical polled
thread, started by DoA, on what your real
opinion was on America's public school system, and what option you felt was best to educate the nation's youth and students, and kid you not, some of these same people share the opinion that there needs to be loosened restrictions and non-compulsory schooling.
Instead of hiding behind "thanks", can you have the decency to explain how you actually feel? I mean, come on, if you're really not for loosened restrictions and non-compulsory schooling, then why are you here? And this brings me to my next point.
You know, I was hoping to speak for all of us here on SS because I thought I could, but now rather I'm here to speak for all School Survivalists who want loosened restrictions from the public school system and abolishment of compulsory schooling.
On a side-note, I find it sad that 2 other people that are registered on SS voted on the very last option—"They're being educated just fine." MrBill, taking a look at his signature, you can see he's the typical DnE browser. Nothing to see there. But Gwedin?! I really hope you were just trolling as MrBill most likely was.
What has happened to you all? Have you all gone soft on the system or something? If you're against this, then what are you here for?
I joined this site back in 2012 because I wanted to discuss with hopefully other like-minded individuals who disliked school on all of its problems after realizing the truth of schooling, and maybe seeing an end to compulsory schooling and an end of the ways to those who work on forcing those against their will to attend.
Hans, you really played the straw man argument like there was no tomorrow, and I'll get to that right now.
I might not go in order from how you organized your points so just bear with me.
When have I ever disregarded the viewpoints of anyone else here? With the exception of anyone who's been flamebaiting, trolling, etc. I'm very respectful to those and what they have to say if they treat me the same in return, even to those who disagree. As long as you treat me with respect you can expect the same in return.
I will listen, but that doesn't mean I won't voice that I don't agree with different/opposing viewpoints and why. I'm not only very passionate about this, but really about School Survival in all.
However, it's really sad that SS seems to have a few members with contradicting viewpoints and some who are willing to, I'm sad to say it this way, wanting to settle for less and going as far as to try to "seek peace" with the system, and all the while compulsory laws will still coexist with the system, and those who dare challenge the system will definitely pay the price.
Do you really agree with this type of setting for schooling? Police having to show up at your door if you don't attend? "Supervisors", court officers, judges, etc. making sure you attend and making "truancy" a necessary evil? It really makes me question why you're still here if you do so.
Secondly—AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT—due to the fact that it points out a fallacy in your argument, notice that this is a vastly different situation than overthrowing the government of a second- or third-world country? How is abolishing compulsory schooling any similar to overthrowing ANY kind of government anyways?
DoA has just as much right to make massive exaggerations of comparisons and apply fallacious concepts if you're going to. You opened this door, so anyone here has just as much right to apply this to their argument if you're going to do so. Don't criticize anyone for doing so if you're going to compare this movement to overthrowing a government of a country and drafting supreme law, and preceding that how wars and actual bloodshed started.
That's like saying how we're going to fight the American government, start a civil war (i.e. called the American Schooling War), arm anti-schoolers/pro-learners on fighting America's military, and then maybe winning, after so much bloodshed, not knowing what to do and so MANY other problems happen socioeconomically, politically, militarily, environmentally, technologically, etc. because we overthrew the government... due to just wanting to end compulsory schooling. That...would cause as much turmoil as there is, or even moreso, like in the Middle East (Iraq, Syria, Egypt), North Korea, Crimea, etc.
That is so ridiculous I'm not even going to continue on that topic. If you think what DoA and I are trying to upstart is bizarre, I think you should reread over what you posted in those terms and rethink that thought...
Thirdly, just because you took a wee poll from your government class oh whether or not you'd go to high school if it was a choice doesn't automatically mean this movement is incredibly unpopular. That's like me saying DoA's poll proves that removing compulsory schooling is an extremely popular one. IMO, we'd need a poll from several sources nationwide in order to be able to consider statistics.
What we have, in terms of polling, is just not enough. But even if we did, polling isn't the end-all-be-all to this—and it never will be.
We are advocating for those who want out of school when can turn nowhere else, and that is to abolish compulsory schooling, all of the punishments that involve not attending schooling, and for the positions of those who execute those punishments to be terminated.
You sound like my parents who told me that I have to go because "everybody has to." So because the majority showed that most would still go even if not compelled to, those who wouldn't should still be, and that punishments should still exist for those who decide not to?
Additionally, part of that argument you make is highly reminiscent to the "one size fits all" argument pro-schoolers love to boast, and it has me sick to my stomach.
You'll also need to elaborate on "appeasing to a small number [...] appeal to a much more universal audience" because, IMO, that doesn't really make much sense. Many people who dislike/hate school come here to SS, but there are still many out there who do who haven't discovered SS, and for whatever reasons they may be, I don't see how this wouldn't apply to them.
I honestly think you're downplaying the reach of this movement because from my experiences I've seen homeschoolers/unschoolers in FB pages and groups advocate for non-compulsory schooling, but you don't see me boasting a "one size fits all" for homeschooling/unschooling and how they represent a "much more universal audience". Those similar to the ones you polled, who probably happen to like school, will continue attending and they and their parents can deal with all the other problems plaguing school and the structure it provides.
Fourthly, I suggest you look up what practical
actually means because I don't think "Bipartisan reforms determined by our Congressmen" has any sense of practicality at the slightest. Aren't these the same individuals who've created the compulsory schooling laws?
I'm also pretty sure that some people believe that school should be separate from state, and this is for a totally different discussion but I don't trust them in handling how I want to learn, and how I want to live my life, at all. They shouldn't be in control of that. Note that I'm only advocating for the separation of state from MY education and LIFE, not the actual school vs. state topic specifically.
And I'm just nitpicking here, but seriously? "Lest you be a SirMarty, etc"? -_-
Quote:Do you know how many people I want to help? Do you know how many people I've seen just develop apathetic attitudes towards life? Do you know that I'm sick of seeing teen suicides because they were called "fag", "autistic", etc? Again, you're making it seem I am.
Was that really necessary, Hans? I don't think DoA ever even implied that it sounded that you didn't care about those who have apathetic attitudes towards life and teen suicide.
Talk about straw man to the extreme...
Quote:Try to somehow legalize gay marriage in the 60s, 70s, or 80s. That's essentially equivalent to abolishing compulsory education right now.
The majority here certainly want that, though!
And this brings me to my final point for now.
Okay, but look at today! Society is advancing and maturing. I think Virginia's gay marriage ban was overturned yesterday, and albeit slowly, but surely, positive changes are being made.
Did I ever even imply I wanted to accomplish this since yesteryear?! NO! I know this will be a long and quite daunting process, but it surely won't take as long as it did with the campaigns for the returns of basic human rights.