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Everything is racist!
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craxyguy562 Offline
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Post: #1
Everything is racist!

Don't think the word racist is thrown around a bit too much.
If you treat two kids of different races differently your racist but if you treat the the same your still racist.

http://www.sociologyinfocus.com/2012/01/...olorblind/

Guess I'm racist cause I treat everyone the same no matter what color they are.

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05-16-2014 03:39 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Everything is racist!

It's not racism per se but it can over look problem in racial terms if you treat everyone as though they are the same. It gets worse when you outright try to keep that idea of colorblindness because the truth of inequality scare/annoys you.

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05-16-2014 08:32 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #3
Everything is racist!

I don't care what color you are.

Though I may be more weary of blacks and hispanics due to the stereotypes and the fact that I live in a city of middle-class whites surrounded by two other cities with one full of poor hispanics and the other full of poor blacks. When many of the criminals arrested in my city are of either group...it doesn't make it any better.

But when it comes down to individuals, I only care about attitude and respect.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-16-2014 11:25 AM
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RE: Everything is racist!

(05-16-2014 11:25 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  When many of the criminals arrested in my city are of either group...it doesn't make it any better.

You ever think about why that is? It doesn't necessarily mean they're generally more criminalistic and less trustworthy. Could be a combination of racial bias and your bog-standard bad racist police force.

And crazyguy...I don't see how the article correlates with your point. The article was about seeing race as a factor and therefore not hindering discourse about race. Because make no mistake, we are NOT in a post-racial society. It's not treating all people the same that's racist, it's being colorblind that is a hindrance. It's definitely not anti-racist.
05-18-2014 02:53 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #5
Everything is racist!

Speaking statistically, I'd probably have higher chance of being a victim in a crime committed by either group. Thus statistically, if I was to be weary of people of either group, I'd have a better chance of avoiding becoming a victim.

Statistically speaking. With data. And no opinion of my own, simply a logical conclusion derived from any equation created by using the available data. Does this support racism? I don't care and neither does the data, because data only exists as it does.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-18-2014 03:51 PM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #6
Everything is racist!



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05-19-2014 01:45 PM
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Ky Offline
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RE: Everything is racist!

(05-18-2014 03:51 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Speaking statistically, I'd probably have higher chance of being a victim in a crime committed by either group. Thus statistically, if I was to be weary of people of either group, I'd have a better chance of avoiding becoming a victim.

Statistically speaking. With data. And no opinion of my own, simply a logical conclusion derived from any equation created by using the available data. Does this support racism? I don't care and neither does the data, because data only exists as it does.

The data comes as a result of racism - not your own, but that of others. Some say it's because minorities conform to fit the stereotypes. Others insist that the "white flight" phenomenon leaves either of those two groups confined to the slums. Still others suggest that minorities are less employable due to racial bias. Perhaps elements of all three are true.

In any case, you're not the racist for pointing that out.

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05-20-2014 12:42 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Everything is racist!

(05-18-2014 03:51 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Speaking statistically, I'd probably have higher chance of being a victim in a crime committed by either group. Thus statistically, if I was to be weary of people of either group, I'd have a better chance of avoiding becoming a victim.

Statistically speaking. With data. And no opinion of my own, simply a logical conclusion derived from any equation created by using the available data. Does this support racism? I don't care and neither does the data, because data only exists as it does.

Data isn't an infallible, almighty tool. It's a human creation that usually measures human elements and that can be twisted this way and that. Even if the minority groups WERE more criminalistic, that would likely be due to the pressures of being a minority in Western society a good number of them face, more or less. This extends to being economically disadvantaged. You're not doing yourself any favors, racist or not.

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magikarp Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Everything is racist!

(05-18-2014 03:51 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Speaking statistically, I'd probably have higher chance of being a victim in a crime committed by either group. Thus statistically, if I was to be weary of people of either group, I'd have a better chance of avoiding becoming a victim.

Statistically speaking. With data. And no opinion of my own, simply a logical conclusion derived from any equation created by using the available data. Does this support racism? I don't care and neither does the data, because data only exists as it does.
Except that's, you know, shit statistics. Most violent crime in most places is drug-related or like personal disputes. 'x group is more violent' is not at all the same thing as 'x group is particularly likely to be dangerous to me personally'. I live in a city with a relatively high crime rate, and it's like... not dangerous to just be walking down the street (if you're white and more or less look straight, anyway), even in parts of the city where there is a lot of crime.

So y'know 'probably' you're just racist. Shrug

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05-20-2014 07:44 AM
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Ky Offline
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RE: Everything is racist!

Hypocrisy detected in magikarp's post. Half an internet goes to whoever can find it without peeking at the answer.


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05-20-2014 07:53 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: Everything is racist!

Data is infalliable. I drop a rock it always falls. I decapitate a human and they generally die. The sun is hot.

You're more so saying that its when data is twisted by pathetic humans is when it becomes falliable.

As well as the fact that even if its economic disadvantage or a bad surrounding doesnt invalidate the fact. Cant say data is wrong bt inputting other equations into it and using them as excuses. Maybe if I was looking to see why they were criminal would it make sense...but Im not. Im just looking at one picture and that picture tells me blacks are more likely to commit crimes, whatever their reason.

Anyways Im pretty sure I openly admited my slight racism somewhere on this site...I think.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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magikarp Offline
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RE: Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 07:53 AM)DoA Wrote:  Hypocrisy detected in magikarp's post. Half an internet goes to whoever can find it without peeking at the answer.

How is it hypocritical?

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05-20-2014 09:30 AM
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RE: Everything is racist!

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05-20-2014 09:34 AM
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RE: Everything is racist!

(05-16-2014 11:25 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  I don't care what color you are.

Though I may be more weary of blacks and hispanics due to the stereotypes and the fact that I live in a city of middle-class whites surrounded by two other cities with one full of poor hispanics and the other full of poor blacks. When many of the criminals arrested in my city are of either group...it doesn't make it any better.

But when it comes down to individuals, I only care about attitude and respect.

brainiac.... you make a very good point. What you bring up is the association fallacy. Basically, your mind goes "see a colored person committing a crime = all colored people commit a crime".

I think a good way to overcome this fallacy (alongside with a bunch of other stuff; I could go on and on, considering I've been deeply studying logic over the recent weeks) is by being able to see the world outside your environment. I think using some logic is good as well.

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Ky Offline
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RE: Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 09:30 AM)magikarp Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 07:53 AM)DoA Wrote:  Hypocrisy detected in magikarp's post. Half an internet goes to whoever can find it without peeking at the answer.

How is it hypocritical?

Brainiac said that he is more likely to be a victim of a crime committed by a member of one of two minority groups. You said that someone who is white and "looks straight" is less likely to be a victim of such a crime.

It is hypocritical to say someone is racist for quoting (but not citing) statistics that involve race when you "more or less" do the same thing.

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05-20-2014 11:05 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 09:41 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  
(05-16-2014 11:25 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  I don't care what color you are.

Though I may be more weary of blacks and hispanics due to the stereotypes and the fact that I live in a city of middle-class whites surrounded by two other cities with one full of poor hispanics and the other full of poor blacks. When many of the criminals arrested in my city are of either group...it doesn't make it any better.

But when it comes down to individuals, I only care about attitude and respect.

brainiac.... you make a very good point. What you bring up is the association fallacy. Basically, your mind goes "see a colored person committing a crime = all colored people commit a crime".

I think a good way to overcome this fallacy (alongside with a bunch of other stuff; I could go on and on, considering I've been deeply studying logic over the recent weeks) is by being able to see the world outside your environment. I think using some logic is good as well.

"see a colored person committing a crime = all colored people commit a crime"

No. Stop putting fake thoughts in ma mind!

Why? Because statistically this would be an illogical conclusion to come to do the the various probabilities of any human attempting to make me a victim of a crime regardless of sex,race,gender or religion. What I'm trying to say is that in my area, it's simply a higher statistical probability a colored person would committ a crime as colored people make up a larger percentage of the unemployed and below the poverty line in bad areas.

You're obviously falling to the fallacy of humankind simplicity. The basic simplification of complex systems where answers are generally understood in the classical sense of binary bits, whereas I'm looking at things in the quantum bit sense.

tl;dr I'm quantum, your classic

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Post: #17
Everything is racist!

Brainy, Hans isn't saying you're committing the association fallacy; he's saying that's just a point that comes to mind when he reads what you have to say about stereotypes and individuals. I think, to some degree, that he agrees with you, not the opposite.

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05-20-2014 12:43 PM
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Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 11:05 AM)DoA Wrote:  Brainiac said that he is more likely to be a victim of a crime committed by a member of one of two minority groups. You said that someone who is white and "looks straight" is less likely to be a victim of such a crime.

Hard data might help here, but that's not to say both couldn't play out across the nation.

Your tone is also screaming 'insufferable RationalWiki nerd' to me, so there's that.

(05-20-2014 09:10 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Data is infalliable. I drop a rock it always falls. I decapitate a human and they generally die. The sun is hot.

You're more so saying that its when data is twisted by pathetic humans is when it becomes falliable.

That was what I was getting at. That, and not all data is perfectly accurate. Yes, I am calling your data twisted because it plays into racial stereotypes. And I'm going to reiterate that even if the groups were more criminalistic (we have yet to see real data), that may be the result of societal pressures as opposed to some imagined racial defect.

It's also worth noting that data by itself usually forms only part of a picture.

(05-20-2014 09:10 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  As well as the fact that even if its economic disadvantage or a bad surrounding doesnt invalidate the fact. Cant say data is wrong bt inputting other equations into it and using them as excuses. Maybe if I was looking to see why they were criminal would it make sense...but Im not. Im just looking at one picture and that picture tells me blacks are more likely to commit crimes, whatever their reason.

With problems like this, a holistic view is more helpful, and in this case it might help you understand the why here. And also hard data. We need that. Otherwise, there's very little reason for some people to look at this thread and not think you're playing into racial stereotyping.

(05-20-2014 12:22 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  "see a colored person committing a crime = all colored people commit a crime"

No. Stop putting fake thoughts in ma mind!

Why? Because statistically this would be an illogical conclusion to come to do the the various probabilities of any human attempting to make me a victim of a crime regardless of sex,race,gender or religion. What I'm trying to say is that in my area, it's simply a higher statistical probability a colored person would committ a crime as colored people make up a larger percentage of the unemployed and below the poverty line in bad areas.

Yet again I will state that we need hard data for a more complete picture. I said societal pressures (due to race) are likely to increase crime, but I didn't say it's always the case.

(05-20-2014 12:22 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  You're obviously falling to the fallacy of humankind simplicity. The basic simplification of complex systems where answers are generally understood in the classical sense of binary bits, whereas I'm looking at things in the quantum bit sense.

We need holistic computing.

(05-20-2014 09:10 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Anyways Im pretty sure I openly admited my slight racism somewhere on this site...I think.

Perhaps refrain from posting about race then?
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #19
Everything is racist!

Holistic data will not change the fact that a certain race will and does commit more crimes. You aren't invalidating a fact by giving an excuse for it.

Just because you tell me blacks are unprivileged, and then go on a holistic multi-volume description, will not change the existing fact that blacks, at the moment, will commit the crime.

I'm being criticized for pointing out the fact that an excuse does not change the existing state.

Quote:Yes, I am calling your data twisted because it plays into racial stereotypes. And I'm going to reiterate that even if the groups were more criminalistic (we have yet to see real data), that may be the result of societal pressures as opposed to some imagined racial defect.

You do realize the bolded statement is a sign of stereotyping me? You're assuming just because I'm saying blacks will commit crimes more often(due to whatever reason) that I'm creating it off an assumption of imaginative racial defect. If you carefully read my post, you'll note that I don't care for the reason or the excuse or the cause. I'm telling you that they commit more crimes. I don't see why that's difficult to comprehend as an independent statement without assuming that I'm making illogical assumptions befitting a stereotypical racist.

Quote:Your tone is also screaming 'insufferable RationalWiki nerd' to me, so there's that.

See this further reinforces my beliefs that while I'm reviewing things independently without basing my views off any pre-established presumptions, my process of reviewing seems to be getting simplistically compared to various negative stereotypes.

So perhaps it's not just racial stereotyping that's an issue, but rather the simplistic way people seem to rely on stereotypes so heavily even when countered by various arguments that blatantly show disregard for whatever stereotypes exist.

When you start basing my words off a stereotype or more, you will obviously begin to misunderstand what I say. My statements will be twisted, facts will be disregarded(simply because I'm the one presenting them). When a democrat says the exact same thing a republican may say, simply basing it on stereotype will mean people will understand the same statement differently even if that statement is independent from their political preferences.

Look for the logic in a persons ideas and statements. Don't disregard logic simply because you disregard the person.

Ex:
City of 10,000 people
Criminals 1,000 (thus 10% of total pop)
35% of criminals are black
30% of criminals are hispanic
25% of criminals are white
10% of criminals are asian

Thus statistically, blacks are at the top of committing crimes in said city. Whatever the reason for them doing it(poverty, lack of privilege, no access to education etc.) doesn't change the fact that 35% of all criminals were black, and thus it's more likely blacks are going to commit more crimes when compared to the other groups. That doesn't mean other groups will not commit crimes nor does it mean all blacks commit crimes.

Yet as I say this, again and again, I'm seeing statements such as "see one group commit crime = all of group do". But that's absolutely not what I am saying.

Capiche?

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RE: Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 11:05 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 09:30 AM)magikarp Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 07:53 AM)DoA Wrote:  Hypocrisy detected in magikarp's post. Half an internet goes to whoever can find it without peeking at the answer.

How is it hypocritical?

Brainiac said that he is more likely to be a victim of a crime committed by a member of one of two minority groups. You said that someone who is white and "looks straight" is less likely to be a victim of such a crime.

It is hypocritical to say someone is racist for quoting (but not citing) statistics that involve race when you "more or less" do the same thing.
My issue isn't that he didn't cite it, it's his interpretation of it. 'x minority group in more likely to be violent' and 'I am more likely to be a victim of a crime committed by x minority group' are not at all the same statement. One is maybe supported by statistics, the other likely isn't.

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Post: #21
Everything is racist!

Brainiac, I'll say this... I never said you assumed all colored people commit crimes.... I simply said that it's a mindset many people go to.

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Post: #22
Everything is racist!

Only if you don't take into account the fact that most crimes in my area are perpetrated by either blacks or Hispanics. Meaning if I was to step outside at night time, in my city, I would have a higher chance of becoming a victim to a hispanic or black person.

49.6% of my city is white
32.9% hispanic
8.7% asian
5.1% black

Yet in the past year, the few crimes that have been committed(most committed is theft and burglary but there has been a few rapes and assaults), were committed mainly by hispanics or blacks. Does that mean all the blacks and hispanics in my city are criminals? No. But it does mean that if I decide to go out at night, I will be more likely to get robbed by either a hispanic or black person. That's simply how the statistics work.

Considering the fact I live in the city, and follow up with what occurs in my city(not that difficult as it isn't very big)...

I'm not going to a mindset that all colored people commit crimes(as you mentioned), I'm simply not going to a mindset that wishes to forgo the reality of race and the situations the inequality between racial groups creates. I'm not a racist for saying that the current situation blacks and hispanics are in makes them more likely to be criminals, and that the position of my location means I'm more likely to be a victim to a criminal of color based on the number of colored people being arrested. I'm a racist if I say "All black and hispanics are criminals because that's just how they are".

Racism is a concept that assumes biological factors contribute to the positive or negative of a group.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Ky Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 03:12 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Racism is a concept that assumes biological factors contribute to the positive or negative of a group.

This is the takeaway. The data itself is morally neutral; construing the data to indicate that a given race is superior or inferior, good or bad, or otherwise unequal in morality or preference, is racism.

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05-21-2014 01:25 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Everything is racist!

(05-21-2014 01:25 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(05-20-2014 03:12 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Racism is a concept that assumes biological factors contribute to the positive or negative of a group.

This is the takeaway. The data itself is morally neutral; construing the data to indicate that a given race is superior or inferior, good or bad, or otherwise unequal in morality or preference, is racism.

Mr.wise guy. Think you're so awesome for shortening all my giant posts into a single sentence(albeit two but the first sentence can be disregarded). Popcorn

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-21-2014 04:55 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 09:34 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  
(05-19-2014 01:45 PM)W Kuts Wrote:  

Watch on YouTube

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

I'm not denying that I'm a racist fuck. The song is just trying to get everyone else to admit they're racist fucks too.

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05-21-2014 12:47 PM
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Post: #26
Everything is racist!

I did that a while ago.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-21-2014 12:52 PM
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Post: #27
Everything is racist!

Wes, the whole argument by racists is that "well, everyone's racist!". But alas, I'm fairly certain I don't hate on entire ethnic groups. I know myself well enough.

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05-21-2014 01:30 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Everything is racist!

You don't have to hate to be racist.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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05-21-2014 01:31 PM
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Trar Away
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Post: #29
RE: Everything is racist!

(05-20-2014 01:20 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  You're assuming just because I'm saying blacks will commit crimes more often(due to whatever reason) that I'm creating it off an assumption of imaginative racial defect. If you carefully read my post, you'll note that I don't care for the reason or the excuse or the cause. I'm telling you that they commit more crimes. I don't see why that's difficult to comprehend as an independent statement without assuming that I'm making illogical assumptions befitting a stereotypical racist.

Nobody is assuming that. I was just stating it to cover the bases.

(05-20-2014 01:20 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  See this further reinforces my beliefs that while I'm reviewing things independently without basing my views off any pre-established presumptions, my process of reviewing seems to be getting simplistically compared to various negative stereotypes.

So perhaps it's not just racial stereotyping that's an issue, but rather the simplistic way people seem to rely on stereotypes so heavily even when countered by various arguments that blatantly show disregard for whatever stereotypes exist.

Those negative stereotypes COME from people like you saying EXACTLY this sort of thing.

(05-20-2014 01:20 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  When you start basing my words off a stereotype or more, you will obviously begin to misunderstand what I say. My statements will be twisted, facts will be disregarded(simply because I'm the one presenting them). When a democrat says the exact same thing a republican may say, simply basing it on stereotype will mean people will understand the same statement differently even if that statement is independent from their political preferences.

Look for the logic in a persons ideas and statements. Don't disregard logic simply because you disregard the person.

Ex:
City of 10,000 people
Criminals 1,000 (thus 10% of total pop)
35% of criminals are black
30% of criminals are hispanic
25% of criminals are white
10% of criminals are asian

Thus statistically, blacks are at the top of committing crimes in said city. Whatever the reason for them doing it(poverty, lack of privilege, no access to education etc.) doesn't change the fact that 35% of all criminals were black, and thus it's more likely blacks are going to commit more crimes when compared to the other groups. That doesn't mean other groups will not commit crimes nor does it mean all blacks commit crimes.

You can act all balanced like this but you still admitted to being wary around The Blacks because you said they're "more likely to commit crimes". Don't go defending it by pretending you didn't say that or believe that.

Consider for a second that 'criminal' might just mean one time crime, that cops profile black people more often and distrust them, that there exists a prison-industrial complex that demands prisoners, and police forces deliver by acting on their racial biases. Perhaps consider that a good majority of the 'crimes' committed by these minorities were possession of marijuana. And this is far from every factor involved. Data does not exist in a void. I'm not going to call you an overt racist (yet), but your rationale is very similar to the practice of racial realism. Which, if you didn't know, is basically racism propped up by (bogus) statistics and figures.

Saying "these are just the facts" and having no idea of the origin of the facts and their context is in fact real racism. It's related to the RationalWiki stink I mentioned earlier, and it's a pretty devious stink.

(05-21-2014 01:31 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  You don't have to hate to be racist.

Perhaps not, but ignorance is also a primary factor.
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2014 02:30 PM by Trar.)
05-21-2014 02:29 PM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Everything is racist!

Of course I admit being wary around the blacks. Why shouldn't I be? Why shouldn't I be more cautious around a group of people who have suffered so much and live in terrible conditions and thus are more inclined to choose a life of crime?

Tell me, how many white people are in the biggest gangs in the USA? How many hispanics? How many blacks? You think it's just criminal profiling that makes these gangsters stand out?

Thus back to the argument that regardless of the reason for them choosing a life of crime, they will still be more likely to commit a crime. And as such I'll be more likely to be wary of them because they have more the reason to commit a crime. If I lived in a neighborhood of rich(or well-off) black people and poor whites in trailer parks, I'd be wary of the white folk just the same.

In order to protect my property and self, I will definitely choose to be cautious of the groups most likely to commit a crime due to whatever reasons motivates them to. That doesn't mean I hate said races(and support my own) nor does it mean ignorance about why they're in such positions as to be more inclined to choose a life of crime.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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