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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.
I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.
I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.
I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.
I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.
Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.
Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.
-SoulRiser
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(04-06-2012 01:57 PM)gore goroth Wrote: Yup, it won't happen anytime soon or at least in the next couple years.
Or the next five million years.
It will be awhile and we can't know for sure. Since the whole voluntary society thing seems to be getting recognized fairly recently, and it seems to be a fairly recent development, I would estimate at least 150 years. You may think it is completely impossible right now and it seems so in this day in age, but I think it will happen. In the early 1700s the end of slavery and racial equality seemed impossible. Most people thought that slavery would never end because most everyone supported it and it was the status quo. Also there were many people who knew it was wrong but couldn't be bothered to change it because of apathy and inability to figure out how society would function without slavery so they just decided to roll with it and do nothing. This also seems to be the case with the idea of anarchy today. Too many people know about this new voluntarism but would rather advocate minarchy and post "RON PAUL 2012!!!!!" on the internet as some sort of compromise between freedom and still having to keep the government they dispise. Why you ask?? Same thing happened during the times of slavery, people would try to make up excuses for why they have to compromise such as "well, that's just human nature" or "thats wrong, but how would we get tobacco picked without slaves"? when they should try to just grow some grow a pair and be radical about it and go 100% against slavery. Thomas Jefferson was probably a good example of what I just described as far as slavery goes.
If you actually think minarchy is best and you think it is the ideal then go for it. But I do detect many SSer's (including a certain black person and a certain capitalist *hint hint*) who have anarchist ideals of liberty yet still think they have to compromise because "welp... thats just human nature" or "I don't know every little detail of how anarchy works so why try" or "Anarchy seems impossible so why try"?
I just detect many members of SS anarchy faction who don't know it.
/end of absent style rant.
04-07-2012 07:08 AM
Thanks given by:
thewake
Unconstructive
Posts: 5,917
Joined: Jun 2007
(04-07-2012 07:08 AM)gore goroth Wrote: It will be awhile and we can't know for sure. Since the whole voluntary society thing seems to be getting recognized fairly recently, and it seems to be a fairly recent development, I would estimate at least 150 years. You may think it is completely impossible right now and it seems so in this day in age, but I think it will happen. In the early 1700s the end of slavery and racial equality seemed impossible. Most people thought that slavery would never end because most everyone supported it and it was the status quo. Also there were many people who knew it was wrong but couldn't be bothered to change it because of apathy and inability to figure out how society would function without slavery so they just decided to roll with it and do nothing. This also seems to be the case with the idea of anarchy today. Too many people know about this new voluntarism but would rather advocate minarchy and post "RON PAUL 2012!!!!!" on the internet as some sort of compromise between freedom and still having to keep the government they dispise. Why you ask?? Same thing happened during the times of slavery, people would try to make up excuses for why they have to compromise such as "well, that's just human nature" or "thats wrong, but how would we get tobacco picked without slaves"? when they should try to just grow some grow a pair and be radical about it and go 100% against slavery. Thomas Jefferson was probably a good example of what I just described as far as slavery goes.
Have you ever heard of a natural monopoly?
Quote:If you actually think minarchy is best and you think it is the ideal then go for it. But I do detect many SSer's (including a certain black person and a certain capitalist *hint hint*) who have anarchist ideals of liberty yet still think they have to compromise because "welp... thats just human nature" or "I don't know every little detail of how anarchy works so why try" or "Anarchy seems impossible so why try"?
I had the same kind existential crisis when I was eight and asked myself, "Magic seems impossible, so why try?"
The same mindset also works with Heaven.
Quote:I just detect many members of SS anarchy faction who don't know it.
/end of absent style rant.
Of course I think anarchy would be desirable if it were attainable, but I also happen to think anti-gravity would be desirable if it were attainable. Both of them defy known laws, one of human behavior and the other of physics.
Wes didn't really refute any of it. This is all theoretical, as was democracy, as was ending slavery, as was seeking equity, as was the idea of heaven, as was the idea that the world was flat. Let's see what happens.... well we'll likely be dead.
Liveuntil youdie
04-07-2012 03:18 PM
Thanks given by:
thewake
Unconstructive
Posts: 5,917
Joined: Jun 2007
(04-07-2012 04:07 PM)SaintVicious Wrote: lol anarchy, is anarchy was so simple to achieve wouldn't it been used right now?
Who the hell said it was simple to achieve?
Because all you guys say is if everyone wasn't greedy blah blah you are literally going against human nature. Everyone wants more of everything, money, power, and bitches oo the bitches. The reason Crapitalism works (somewhat) is because it relies on human greed to further our race.
First of all nobody complains that they are rich. Second of all people are scared. Third of all people care too much about how they will look like in front of other people/ neighbors. As Jesus said The Sheep need leading.
They can take away my life but they can never take away my freed... auch my dreams!!!!
How about a cupcake?!
04-08-2012 05:22 AM
Thanks given by:
gore goroth
trollface abbath
Posts: 2,439
Joined: May 2011
(04-07-2012 04:07 PM)SaintVicious Wrote: lol anarchy, is anarchy was so simple to achieve wouldn't it been used right now?
Who the hell said it was simple to achieve?
Because all you guys say is if everyone wasn't greedy blah blah you are literally going against human nature. Everyone wants more of everything, money, power, and bitches oo the bitches. The reason Crapitalism works (somewhat) is because it relies on human greed to further our race.
Youve been reading too many sociopath posts and you seem to be referring to socipath's anarcho-socialism.
Anarcho-capitalism does rely on human greed to further our race and anarchy is actually the purest form of capitalism.
And who let you out of the basement forum anyways?
(*shoos saintvicious away with a broom*)
04-08-2012 11:27 AM
Thanks given by:
gore goroth
trollface abbath
Posts: 2,439
Joined: May 2011
(04-08-2012 05:22 AM)ElevateHope Wrote: First of all nobody complains that they are rich. Second of all people are scared. Third of all people care too much about how they will look like in front of other people/ neighbors. As Jesus said The Sheep need leading.
(04-07-2012 04:07 PM)SaintVicious Wrote: lol anarchy, is anarchy was so simple to achieve wouldn't it been used right now?
Who the hell said it was simple to achieve?
Because all you guys say is if everyone wasn't greedy blah blah you are literally going against human nature. Everyone wants more of everything, money, power, and bitches oo the bitches. The reason Crapitalism works (somewhat) is because it relies on human greed to further our race.
Youve been reading too many sociopath posts and you seem to be referring to socipath's anarcho-socialism.
Anarcho-capitalism does rely on human greed to further our race and anarchy is actually the purest form of capitalism.
And who let you out of the basement forum anyways?
(*shoos saintvicious away with a broom*)
The problem with that is that silly notion of we can exist without some sort of governing force, while we do have the capability, there aren't enough people who are strong willed enough to make it work,
TLDR; Too Bitch nigga amount TOO DAM HIGH
04-08-2012 12:07 PM
Thanks given by:
Mælstrom
GIVE ME LEEBERTY, OR GIVE ME DEATH
Posts: 959
Joined: Dec 2011
I lean mostly towards anarchism, but I think that it could only be successful in groups of up to 10,000 people. After that, I feel like there's too much chance for failure.
If you're reading this, I killed myself.
04-08-2012 12:57 PM
Thanks given by:
.Manicrose.
CODSWALLOP
Posts: 843
Joined: Mar 2011
Anarchism would eventually turn into a complete free-for-all with gangs and shit. It just wouldn't work on a large scale. I don't like government, though...I guess I'm sort of tribalist, if that's even a term.
Go to work. Send your kids to school. Follow fashion. Act normal. Walk on the pavement. Watch TV. Save for your old age. Obey the law. Repeat after me: "I am free."
(04-08-2012 01:51 PM).Manicrose. Wrote: Anarchism would eventually turn into a complete free-for-all with gangs and shit. It just wouldn't work on a large scale. I don't like government, though...I guess I'm sort of tribalist, if that's even a term.
Only IF the anarchy came about as a result of governmental collapse or an apocalypse or some shit. If anarchy is achieved through violence and force, it will fail to maintain itself.
(04-08-2012 01:51 PM).Manicrose. Wrote: Anarchism would eventually turn into a complete free-for-all with gangs and shit. It just wouldn't work on a large scale. I don't like government, though...I guess I'm sort of tribalist, if that's even a term.
trib·al·ism (trb-lzm)
n.
1. The organization, culture, or beliefs of a tribe.
2. A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.
I find Anarchy to be preferable to any other system. An Anarchy may or may not come, however, that is irrelevant. AnarchISM is a lifestyle choice, a way to go about your life as not interfering with another and disregarding authority and rules in favor of better things.
Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!
Dear Tumblrites:Despite your wrongly self-diagnosedPTSD, no line ofscientific evidencesuggests people can be triggered over theinternet. Triggering works through thesenses(i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes throughreal time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it'sACTUALLY HAPPENINGin yourACTUALlife, youCANNOTbe triggered. The only exception to this is if you have aseizure, but then again, that's triggered byepilepsy(i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights)NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having aflashback. When you remember, youthink; when youflashback,youfeel.
#HashTagsAreForIdiots
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself."The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes."The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
PIRATE MEMBER Join the crew!
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2012 07:21 AM by Sociopath.)
04-10-2012 07:20 AM
Thanks given by:
gore goroth
trollface abbath
Posts: 2,439
Joined: May 2011
A functioning Anarchy would be the equivalent of 2 people working together on a project, not getting in eachother's way, respecting eachother and and making sure neither is a leader. This is possible, it can be done, and it has been done.
Now let's expand it, can 3 people do it? Of course. All it takes is mutual cooperation. Can people mutually cooperate with eachother? Yes.
2 people can do it, 3 people can do it, 10, 50, 100, 1000, a million, any number can do it. Whether it is likely or not is irrelevent. It CAN be done.
Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!
Dear Tumblrites:Despite your wrongly self-diagnosedPTSD, no line ofscientific evidencesuggests people can be triggered over theinternet. Triggering works through thesenses(i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes throughreal time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it'sACTUALLY HAPPENINGin yourACTUALlife, youCANNOTbe triggered. The only exception to this is if you have aseizure, but then again, that's triggered byepilepsy(i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights)NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having aflashback. When you remember, youthink; when youflashback,youfeel.
#HashTagsAreForIdiots
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself."The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes."The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
PIRATE MEMBER Join the crew!
04-10-2012 07:28 AM
Thanks given by:
thewake
Unconstructive
Posts: 5,917
Joined: Jun 2007
(04-10-2012 07:28 AM)Sociopath Wrote: It CAN be done.
I'll have to have empirical evidence to believe that. If it hasn't been done, there's no proof it can be done. Theoretically, yes it can be done. Anarchy is internally logical and consistent. So are a lot of improvable theories in physics.
I think you are exaggerating a little bit on the Anarchy. Anarchy only seems impossible because you don't know how exactly it would work. A functioning Anarchy is not impossible, it only seems like a pipedream because there are no examples of a voluntary society. Its the future and its completely unpredictable we don't know what will happen. We don't really know every single little detail of a future Anarchy, just like people 200 years ago didn't think that we would be driving giant machines to do stuff for us.
Its against human nature you say??
Wasn't slavery considered a basic problem of human nature that can't be fixed a couple hundred years ago? Everyone thought that slavery in America would never end and "welp, thats just human nature." Look what happens later, not only an end of slavery, but black people are citizens just like everyone else. So why can't we abolish tax slavery to the state???
Now lets take a look at your proposed libratarian minarchy...
If you said a time-proof perfect anarchy was impossible, a surviving minarchy isn't any easier in the long run. The U.S. is a perfect example of one gone wrong. Sure it starts out fairly easy because it happened before, but a couple hundred years later you will end up with just another tyranny and police state. At least with a voluntary society, you are kept in check by simple strict moral rules that everyone shares. Now what would keep your supposed constitutional government in check? A piece of paper? democracy? Both of these can't stop the corruption of the government because government only seeks expansion and over time it achieves just that. If the government wrote the constitution then why can't they change or flat out break the rules??? If the government can break the non-aggression principle, why can't it grow and gain more and more power and control of your life when it can already kill you if need be.
(04-08-2012 05:22 AM)ElevateHope Wrote: First of all nobody complains that they are rich. Second of all people are scared. Third of all people care too much about how they will look like in front of other people/ neighbors. As Jesus said The Sheep need leading.
I've been feeling like shit all day and I swear this made it better.
(04-10-2012 07:28 AM)Sociopath Wrote: It CAN be done.
I'll have to have empirical evidence to believe that. If it hasn't been done, there's no proof it can be done. Theoretically, yes it can be done. Anarchy is internally logical and consistent. So are a lot of improvable theories in physics.
I was relying more on a priori rationalism rather than empiricism. If something can be done on a small scale, then given the right conditions, it can be done on a larger one. We can provide electricity to a large number of houses, for example, it can be done on small as well as large, as long as certain criteria are met. Same with Anarchy.
Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!
Dear Tumblrites:Despite your wrongly self-diagnosedPTSD, no line ofscientific evidencesuggests people can be triggered over theinternet. Triggering works through thesenses(i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes throughreal time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it'sACTUALLY HAPPENINGin yourACTUALlife, youCANNOTbe triggered. The only exception to this is if you have aseizure, but then again, that's triggered byepilepsy(i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights)NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having aflashback. When you remember, youthink; when youflashback,youfeel.
#HashTagsAreForIdiots
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself."The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes."The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
I don't see why anyone, especially on this site, would like the idea of government.
I think Sociopath put it best. It may not work in my life time, but it's something I believe in. I'd rather believe in that rather than Wall Street I guess.
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