Perfect society/humanity?

[1312]

Hello everyone.

I was just thinking about why the humanity is "evil", or whatever this means for you.

I mean, why does government fight for oil, kill for it, make it's own worthless money and make itself rich? Who cares about it? Why not share it with everyone, or better yet, find a new source like hemp or electricity for fuel? Greedy bastards.
People are killing EACHOTHER everyday for something. Why is that? Why is everyone being so greedy, why not just share everything? Like animals in pack, but their leader still is first to eat the most delicious part..
People are animals, people got more developed brains, but people never learn how to use brain.

I thought about killing all those greedy bastards, like bankers, oil company leaders, fakeass presidents, like Obama and the like. High respect for Kaddafi here. Anyways, if we'd kill them and try to establish peace on all earth and give out everything equally. Why not create paradise?

I think problem is that people will still be greedy bastards trying to profit on someone else,(Employers on employees) and kill for something, or kill for someone. That's an endless loop.
There's no end for it.

I think that peace in all world is unachievable, someone will still try to be over others, isn't that how animals work anyways?

[HeartofShadows]

Humanity itself isn't evil but more so shades of grey.
Besides everybody will always pursue whatever they want and will always appear as selfish to everybody else.
Selfishness most times goes hand and hand with free will.

[SoulRiser]

Humanity isn't evil. The problem is that a select few are evil/greedy and the majority of people are either apathetic or ignorant, or some combination of both. Or afraid to do something... or don't know what to do. Very few people actually enjoy the idea of hurting others.

If everyone in the world just helped one person to make their life better in even just a small way, humanity as a whole would be better off. Why don't people do this? Because it makes them uncomfortable to face other people's suffering. They'd rather just ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist, so that they don't have to feel bad about it.

[UnschoolShqiponjë]

Humans are not innately evil and we are not innately good. The society we grow up in and how we are raised as well as some genetic preferences determine how we will be as we grow.

[1312]

I was just thinking about those poor people, poverty, homeless people, people that can't eat for a whole day and are treated like animals. It gave me a headache. I'm thinking on how to improve this and change the currency and make world equal and peaceful. It's something impossible to accomplish alone. I wish everyone would stand up for yer brothers and sisters.

Peace.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Y9-JlSRXw

[UnschoolShqiponjë]

How to change it now? We must change our methods of raising children. I will be doing my part.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

I say humanity is neither "good" nor "evil". It's so complex, and diverse. But I think there is definetly something you called civilization, which totally denies humanity and forces you to hate your nature, and live a life based off of destruction of life, hatred, and death.

I look at humane nature as sanity, balance, unbalance, insanity, illogical, and logical.

By illogical I mean civilization, civilized people are completely insane, since when is it sane for a culture to choose a finite self destructive path, based on the murder of all lifeforms and even eachother, in order to sustain an insustainable existence to serve the interests of a bunch of insane, unbalanced rich sociopaths who will swallow an entire planet ( which they NEED) for a flimsy piece of paper,
which has absolutely no meaning at all, and only stands as a dead symbol of the labour, corruption, death, murder, chaos, and irrationality that went into the worship and making of it.



Previously, that dollar was actually made from a living being, a tree, that actually had meaning, being to provide oxygen for you to breath, and provide life for your fellow neighbors all in the order to sustain your ungrateful existence. So I don't see the RATIONALITY, or sanity of killing everybody for a piece of paper.

Truth is humans will kill themselves given the choice these days. Stupidity and absolute insanity is the norm, the forced norm.

What's even better is that everyone will probably acknowledge how stupid civilization is and not do anything to stop it from devouring reality, they'll probably just nod there heads and go back to their jobs and pursue their empty financially secure lies.

I told my teacher what civilization is and how corrupt it is ad he just said "interesting" and then said that civilization is only perception, and creates this falsehood that uncivilized is less and civilized is good.

Just can't escape the total brainwashing of the american school system. I mean, SERIOUSLY?

[LOON_ATTIC]

(12-01-2011 12:17 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  I told my teacher what civilization is and how corrupt it is ad he just said "interesting" and then said that civilization is only perception, and creates this falsehood that uncivilized is less and civilized is good.

Just can't escape the total brainwashing of the american school system. I mean, SERIOUSLY?

...Your teacher actually seems pretty cool, a lot of them would've probably gone HURR HOW DARE YOU DEFY MY POINT OF VIEW YOU MUST BE PUNISHED.

And I don't see either civilization or nature as "good"... maybe just living separate from the guvmint and all the stress and shit would be better than with it though. But to me, human nature in general is just... meh.

Also, I believe we're essentially in the top 20% of all humanity based on living quality. So I suppose saying that this civilization is a bit of exploitation of the many for the benefit of the few... so I suppose most people's living quality is shit, which to me actually has some base and is pretty depressing.

[Hendorne Endoh'roth]

I don't like humans that much, but I put up with their and possibly your shit. If I was to have my way though, I would make human civilization go backwards, back to when they just discovered fire, possibly earlier.

[.Manicrose.]

Quote:Also, I believe we're essentially in the top 20% of all humanity based on living quality. So I suppose saying that this civilization is a bit of exploitation of the many for the benefit of the few... so I suppose most people's living quality is shit, which to me actually has some base and is pretty depressing.

Speaking of depression, while the poor countries are starving, the rich countries have widespread depression because all this advertising and mindgames and shit is fucking us up bigtime.

Hendorne Endoh'roth Wrote:I don't like humans that much, but I put up with their and possibly your shit. If I was to have my way though, I would make human civilization go backwards, back to when they just discovered fire, possibly earlier.

You and SHOTGUNHEART should get together.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Civilization brings out the absolute worst that humanity can be, and runs completely off of that.

Thing is people should have realized thousands of years ago that civilization doesn't work and they should return to their native way of life, but it just kept on coming back.

And Lunatic, escaping from "guvmint" is pretty impossible in civilization.

I think civilization is absolutely insanity, and human nature, I think "humanity" is listening to your heart, and listening to the world around you and feeling.

That's another thing about this culture, you can't feel anything but jealously, depression, self hatred, and yeah that's all.

[HeartofShadows]

(12-01-2011 09:59 PM)Hendorne Endohroth Wrote:  I don't like humans that much, but I put up with their and possibly your shit. If I was to have my way though, I would make human civilization go backwards, back to when they just discovered fire, possibly earlier.

Trust me I don't like you neither.
If I had my way I would kill off about 2/3 of humanity including you.

[gore goroth]

(12-02-2011 06:40 AM)HeartofShadows Wrote:  

(12-01-2011 09:59 PM)Hendorne Endohroth Wrote:  I don't like humans that much, but I put up with their and possibly your shit. If I was to have my way though, I would make human civilization go backwards, back to when they just discovered fire, possibly earlier.

Trust me I don't like you neither.
If I had my way I would kill off about 2/3 of humanity including you.

Only 2/3??? For me all but a select few dies.

[Sunbourn]

You say that money has no meaning, but I disagree. For the poor, money means having something to eat that night. Money means having a roof over their head at night. Money means moving up to a better life for themselves and their family. For the prosperous money is a sign of their success in life; the fruit of them and their families efforts. You disagree with the monetary system, but it has been in place in some form for millenniums now, and will not be going away any time soon. Why should it when there is no viable alternative that wouldn't provoke worldwide instability? We humans have assigned it this meaning, but that doesn't make that meaning any less real.

Humans are naturally selfish creatures. Yes, I agree that it's a sad fact. Yet that is how we are encoded. For us to lose this aspect would require an alteration in our DNA. The reason for human's selfishness has nothing to do with civilization either. Before civilization, men would drag women to their caves and rape them to reproduce, and nothing was done about it. People would still stab eachother in the backs every chance they had, the only difference is what is being disputed. Back then it was over such essentials as food.

Say that we put a stop to the government as we currently know it and put the world in a state of anarchy. Groups would quickly emerge, and every pack has its lead wolf. Soon a new form of government would develop. Because it is in our nature to have leaders and followers. It is in our nature to have laws and to be organized. Nothing will change and that is why I myself haven't become an anarchist. Anarchy can only work on a small scale where everybody sticks to the ideal. Never will it find worldwide success, or even succeed in the long term on the level of a small country.

Now to the OP's question, I don't believe there is such thing as evil. That is all in perspective. People have different perspectives of what is right and wrong, and nobody who does something considered to be wrong from the perspective of the masses truly believes that they are doing something evil at the time of its doing. It is always justified in their minds. But operating within the confines of only using the standard definition of evil, yes, I do believe that humans are inherently evil. We do things considered to be immoral by the group and often times don't think twice about it. Then those same people want to see others hang for their crimes. Hypocrisy goes hand in hand with our code of morals.

You yourself are hypocritical. You speak of wanting to kill all of those who have done things which you disagree with, yet killing can be considered just as immoral. This is normal, I believe that so long as you are breathing air in to your lungs then you are a hypocrite. Myself included.

[UnschoolShqiponjë]

Quote:men would drag women to their caves and rape them to reproduce, and nothing was done about it

That far back there was no concept of rape. Men were supposed to fuck women. Just like how animals do it now. Our mentality has evolved though to give people a choice. One should never take away or not allow that choice for anyone.

[ModestMusic]

I think that it is impossible to create any sort of ideal society. With six billion people on the planet, it is pretty damn difficult to find one thing that everyone believes is morally good and would not object. While one could make the argument that a civilization in which no one is harmed and no one goes hungry would be ideal, imposing one set of morals would create a dystopia for someone and I see no reason why they should be overlooked (It would not be a utopia unless they were content as well). And I am not talking about the mentally insane who go on killing sprees, I am talking about the contradictions of religions that would prohibit some people from co-existing.

[Sunbourn]

(12-02-2011 07:49 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  

Quote:men would drag women to their caves and rape them to reproduce, and nothing was done about it

That far back there was no concept of rape. Men were supposed to fuck women. Just like how animals do it now. Our mentality has evolved though to give people a choice. One should never take away or not allow that choice for anyone.

What I was trying to say there is that it's probably best if we don't unevolve in to an uncivilized world where that is acceptable, as bad as it may seem today.

[UnschoolShqiponjë]

(12-02-2011 07:52 AM)|55555| Wrote:  

(12-02-2011 07:49 AM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  

Quote:men would drag women to their caves and rape them to reproduce, and nothing was done about it

That far back there was no concept of rape. Men were supposed to fuck women. Just like how animals do it now. Our mentality has evolved though to give people a choice. One should never take away or not allow that choice for anyone.

What I was trying to say there is that it's probably best if we don't unevolve in to an uncivilized world where that is acceptable, as bad as it may seem today.

Oh I totally agree then.


It might be kinda nice to note that our innate selfishness causes us to do good things. I help others because it makes me feel good. If helping others made me feel bad I would not do it. I am nice and friendly (usually) because I will likely be treated the same and I like that.

[xydougie]

You have to understand the principle of scarcity

It basically means we have infinite desires and limited resources to satisfy those desires

Nations get in conflicts on who's better at beating scarcity

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

(12-02-2011 07:17 AM)|55555| Wrote:  You say that money has no meaning, but I disagree. For the poor, money means having something to eat that night. Money means having a roof over their head at night. Money means moving up to a better life for themselves and their family. For the prosperous money is a sign of their success in life; the fruit of them and their families efforts. You disagree with the monetary system, but it has been in place in some form for millenniums now, and will not be going away any time soon. Why should it when there is no viable alternative that wouldn't provoke worldwide instability? We humans have assigned it this meaning, but that doesn't make that meaning any less real.

Humans are naturally selfish creatures. Yes, I agree that it's a sad fact. Yet that is how we are encoded. For us to lose this aspect would require an alteration in our DNA. The reason for human's selfishness has nothing to do with civilization either. Before civilization, men would drag women to their caves and rape them to reproduce, and nothing was done about it. People would still stab eachother in the backs every chance they had, the only difference is what is being disputed. Back then it was over such essentials as food.

Say that we put a stop to the government as we currently know it and put the world in a state of anarchy. Groups would quickly emerge, and every pack has its lead wolf. Soon a new form of government would develop. Because it is in our nature to have leaders and followers. It is in our nature to have laws and to be organized. Nothing will change and that is why I myself haven't become an anarchist. Anarchy can only work on a small scale where everybody sticks to the ideal. Never will it find worldwide success, or even succeed in the long term on the level of a small country.

Now to the OP's question, I don't believe there is such thing as evil. That is all in perspective. People have different perspectives of what is right and wrong, and nobody who does something considered to be wrong from the perspective of the masses truly believes that they are doing something evil at the time of its doing. It is always justified in their minds. But operating within the confines of only using the standard definition of evil, yes, I do believe that humans are inherently evil. We do things considered to be immoral by the group and often times don't think twice about it. Then those same people want to see others hang for their crimes. Hypocrisy goes hand in hand with our code of morals.

You yourself are hypocritical. You speak of wanting to kill all of those who have done things which you disagree with, yet killing can be considered just as immoral. This is normal, I believe that so long as you are breathing air in to your lungs then you are a hypocrite. Myself included.

Lol, money has no real meaning or purpose.Money is only representive of the labour, slavery, destruction and material power that is put into the making to it.

Monetary value, is simply a myth, an illusion. But it has become the staple of people's lives and a thing to serve, a thing to define them, truth is people do whatever money needs them to do. It's all a psycological game, and it's run by the world's biggest sociopaths.

The meaning isn't real, but the effects, the results, the consequences are very deadly, it's like a fucking plague.And I don't see what money has brough us but a completely dystopic world, and a doomed planet.

Now to your belief that human's are naturally selfish,here's a quote that pretty much explains my response

"Everybody has a sense of self-interest, and the capability to act in a selfish way at other people’s expense. But everyone also has a sense of the needs of those around them, and we are all capable of generous and selfless actions. Human survival depends on generosity. The next time someone tells you a communal, anarchistic society could not work because people are naturally selfish, tell him he should withhold food from his children pending payment, do nothing to help his parents have a dignified retirement, never donate to charities, and never help his neighbors or be kind to strangers unless he receives compensation. " - Peter Gelderloos,Anarchy Works

And to your belief that anarchy will lead to just government all over again, is not particularly true. What would happen if we just got rid of "government" specifically, we wouldn't have anarchy we'd have complete dictation by capitalists. We can't just take down government , to have anarchy we have to take down the economists as well. The only problem with this is that we'd have to have plans for proper food distribution and permaculture to sustain the huge population. In truth, getting rid of this system would require a full out civil war, which will probably reduce the population to a more sustainable amount. But that's never gonna happen. So anarchy isn't simply "anti-guvmint" it was started against capitalism.

I don't beleive THE OP is a hypocrite for wanting to kill those that are doing evil things. Putting a peace sign only strengthens their ability to take you down. So I think it's compeletly just to attack someone intending harm, I mean if some man tried to choke your mother to death, what would you do? Talk about how choking is wrong and preach nonviolence?

No, violence is many cases is a knee-jerk reaction, as bees sting those intending harm.

[1312]

Was reading this: http://www.reformation.org/tesla-and-tunguska.html

Sickening shit. So many great inventions ruined because of greediness.

"In order to build the tower, Tesla had to appeal to J.P. Morgan for funds....That was his FATAL MISTAKE.... Morgan had already ruined Tesla financially by taking over the Westinghouse Company and insisting that George Westinghouse stop paying royalties to Tesla. Morgan and Thomas Edison also burned down his laboratory which contained many of his electrotherapeutic and life saving medical devices. The scientific, medical, and financial loss to all mankind was incalculable."