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the Analogist · 06-12-2017 02:36 AM

So I just learned something about this guy Stanley Kaplan, the guy whose name is on SAT test prep guides.

So the SAT was supposed to measure Scholastic Aptitude, but as he went through the process of figuring out what gaps needed filling in people's knowledge he started shining a bit spotlight on the fact that the test, by being studiable, does not actually measure aptitude. people started getting higher scores based on preparation suggesting that, if it were truly measuring your potential, these books plus some time were increasing your "innate potential", meaning whatever "potential" they measure is not innate.

the greatest evil the aristocrats commit is the labeling of people. we commit injustice to ourselves by accepting these labels. A, B, C, its all such bullshit, and everyone knows it. all they serve is a social function

also this

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fre...evelopment

Alistoriv · 06-12-2017 03:30 AM

is this thread even actually about theCancer?

the Analogist · 06-12-2017 03:36 AM

i yelled at him in an old thread and then yelled at him again in the psyche forum in a thread about "theCancer should STFU about wasted potential"

nobody else responded there, so i posted this more school talk topic here, but as a continuation of how he's wrong

**SoulRiser** · 06-12-2017 04:13 AM

Why do you keep picking on TheCancer so much?

the Analogist · 06-12-2017 05:34 AM

it was because of the realization i originally posted, but then his responses suggested he didnt even know what I was talking about while at the same time trying to refute them.

the very subtle act of discrimination he was defending is something most people seem to take for granted. nobody has bothered to tell me where i'm wrong, so for want of driving the point home I thought I would post this relevant story and post it as a continuation of a thread that NOBODY else commented on.

whats the deal people? does anybody really take what you've accomplished to date as a mark of your innate potential? has anybody understood how this relates to my theory of knowledge/education?

why is nobody chiming in on this?

I also posted the CGP Grey video on how to maximize misery where one of those points was to aim for vague impossible to attain goals. school does this to people. theCancer has mentioned doing this.

I think its a major source of frustration for all of us, in school or out, everbody has unmet potential, but I dont think people have unequal potential, though I do agree some people are older than others

the Analogist · 06-12-2017 12:15 PM

so i definitely imagined that other people would chime in and there would be a debate or something.

I guess im just done saying any of this

Rule_BreakerXVIII · 06-13-2017 02:19 AM

About the potential thing...

I know I have a certain capacity to do things; for example, I know I can paint, draw, art a reasonably good scenery, or trees or flowers. But I don't. I know I can play the first movement of Moonlight Sonata mostly correctly, but I don't.

I know I have the ability to get better at both these things, if I put in the effort...but then again I don't.

People have potential, (an ability to do things, or maybe a possibility of being able to do things better,) and while I agree that nobody should dictate what you do with yours, I kind of get what someone might be referring to when they use the term "wasted potential".

the Analogist · 06-13-2017 02:37 AM

I agree with that, but to the extent that this "potential" idea is manipulated to coerce a student to try harder, or to the extent that it produces vague and therefore unattainable goals, i say it is a wasted thought.

everybody has potential, but giving unequal amounts of help and encouragement is good for nobody. THATS my issue. the oh so common different treatment of people based on their perceived innate value

**SoulRiser** · 06-14-2017 05:56 AM

Quote:everybody has potential, but giving unequal amounts of help and encouragement is good for nobody. THATS my issue. the oh so common different treatment of people based on their perceived innate value

But people are different and have different needs... should we ignore that, and insist on treating everyone exactly the same, and hold them to the same standards?

Like, don't hold the door open for the old man with no arms, he should get the same treatment as everyone else. Just drive over the blind lady, she should know better than to walk in front of cars, because people with vision can see them... Make the math genius kid do the math exercises just as many times as the other kids, even though he's clearly bored out of his mind and wants to move on to more interesting things...

the Analogist · 06-14-2017 07:57 AM

"...based on their perceived INNATE value."

how does nobody get what im saying?

Im talking about the social seeds that plant the aristocracy. some are better, some have less potential. help the strong bridle the weak. THIS is what happens when we give unequal amounts of help to people based on what we see as their potential. im talking about labeling people as bright or dumb and treating them in accordance with those labels.

Rule_BreakerXVIII · 06-17-2017 02:46 AM

Quote:But people are different and have different needs... should we ignore that, and insist on treating everyone exactly the same, and hold them to the same standards?

I don't think that's what Analogist meant. For example, (this has happened quite a few times to me in school) teachers used to poke and prod me into doing my work when I clearly didn't want to, while another kid who wanted to do his work but couldn't understand the material (and thus actually needed help) languished in the background.

And when I -or anybody else- pointed this out, we were told to shut up and do our work; those poor kids included. Fucking ageists.

This is what he was trying to say; discrimination b/c someone is perceived as "brighter" and thus more deserving of attention, whether they want/need it or not.

A good teacher would see everyone in their classroom and pick out between those who need help v.s. those who don't; not those who are "smart" and those who aren't.

Quote:but to the extent that this "potential" idea is manipulated to coerce a student to try harder, or to the extent that it produces vague and therefore unattainable goals, i say it is a wasted thought.

My teachers did try that on me. Their efforts were futile. Mwahaha

the Analogist · 06-17-2017 05:24 AM

Thank you so much!!

there is no way that from among this group nobody knew what I was talking about

TheCancer · 06-20-2017 05:58 AM

lol @ this thread title

I think I get your point. I'm not going to bother getting all analytical about it. Of course, there are many things I could've done better. To my credit, sometimes I did a good job. It's not theory in the class; it's application. I look at a situation and either try to address it or decide to ignore it. Almost anything can be improved on. Sorry if you're disappointed I'm not addressing your topic directly.

I actually took a course and raised my SAT score way back in the day. I have no idea what it measures and I don't remember ever stating that I put any stock in it.

Secretly, I'm proud of how high my score was but don't tell anyone.

I'm smart!

Sorry for trolling a little.

the Analogist · 06-20-2017 06:34 AM

i took the ACT. i got 19 I think

an associates and a bachelors degree later, my 19 still stands. Ha! and my brother had better grades and tests and he didnt get into the school I did.

its all such horeshit. aristocrats try desperately to justify their status.

TheCancer · 06-20-2017 08:13 AM

19???

I take it you weren't on scholarship!

the Analogist · 06-20-2017 11:27 AM

rich grandparents.

19. because I wanted to know how well school prepared me.

THAT a test CAN be studied for, means BY DEFINITION it measures NOTHING which is INNATE.

TheCancer · 06-20-2017 01:39 PM

I understand that bro

I think I posted something about standardized tests or some kind of assessment that ticked you off

I honestly think you're dead on

I also think you wrote some stuff that I should read my closely

I'm sort of sick of thinking about work so I'm just gonna chill for a while.

I don't want you to be angry. Sorry for making that scholarship crack. I was feeling snarky. It's not a bad score and like you say it doesn't really measure intelligence or even aptitude.

Peace bro

the Analogist · 06-20-2017 06:25 PM

I wish you could find a better job because just thinking about it sounds painful to you.

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