Anti-vaccination

[Desu]

ITT: We discuss the anti-vax movement and why it's nonsense.

Enjoy picking apart the fallacies, misleading statistics, and made up facts in this one.



Watch on YouTube

[Desu]

Moms know best!

http://gianelloni.wordpress.com/2014/03/...-movement/

[Desu]

Doctor loses his shit after having his PRO-VAX LIES EXPOSED.

Quote:"the doctors" dont know the science and the facts... research for yourself people... wake up

stay safe

Watch on YouTube

[Alistoriv]

What the fuck are you going on about

[Absnt]

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-06-20/


tl;dr; correlation != causation, there's not any actual evidence that vaccines cause autism, increases in the number of autists is most likely due to an increased diagnostic criterea (more people qualify as autistic under the new criteria), the chemistry of these claims doesn't make sense, some of the big names in the anti-vax movement stand to gain monetarily (owning law firms filing claims against teh gubmint, doctors, etc), autism onsets at about the same age as vaccinations are scheduled (which causes parents to think there's causation, but there isn't).

[Absnt]

http://www.skepticblog.org/2014/01/22/au...more-25285



Oh no, organic foods are causing autism!!!1

Fucking dumb, m8


And to demonstrate that some people in the anti-vax movement do actually gain from it:



Lol.

[James Comey]

The whole vaccine thing was based on the correlation fallacy. Why people still believe this shit, I don't know.

[Desu]

(04-04-2014 09:00 AM)MichaelTownley Wrote:  The whole vaccine thing was based on the correlation fallacy. Why people still believe this shit, I don't know.

It's a fad, unfortunately. People mean well, but the problem is they jumped on the bandwagon of "natural", "doctor/big pharma conspiracy", "government telling me how to raise my kids" etc. People who don't vaccinate their kids have simply been exposed to a lot of shitty information.

Just google stuff like, "natural health don't vaccinate doctor lies" and you'll see what kind of bullshit information is being passed around.

It's not even correlation vs. causation, there's A LOT of things they don't get.

For example, even if it's true that vaccines cause autism, do you really want to bring back all these terrible illnesses that used to kill millions of people? You would rather your kid risk dying than getting autism?

Anyway, it's all just a fad, the same way the anti-gluten shit started. Unfortunately, this is a far more harmful fad than people not eating gluten for no reason though...

Also people don't understand that not vaccinating your kids or yourself harms all of us, because it puts everyone at risk. It makes epidemics and even pandemics easier to form.

[Desu]

(04-04-2014 05:09 AM)Alistoriv Wrote:  What the fuck are you going on about

I was being sarcastic, I'm not actually against vaccines... lol

[Desu]

(04-04-2014 06:29 AM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-06-20/


tl;dr; correlation != causation,

Pools tend to open starting around the month of May. Ice cream sales also rise drastically during this time.

Schools also close around the same time.

COINCIDENCE?! I think not.

I think I finally figured out how to bring down school: We need to eat ice cream and go swimming.

[brainiac3397]

I was vaccinated for TB.

But the USA doesn't do it...so I have to get a damn chest x-ray everytime I visit a doctor when they do a PPD test(inject some protein in arm).

I think anti-vaccine folks are hippies. Did I mention I hate hippies?

[no]

(04-03-2014 08:47 PM)Desu Wrote:  

>"independent thinker"
>tells you what to think

[James Comey]

Let's blast more bullshit, shall we?



1. Hey, dipshits, Africa has more than just black people. Arabs, white people.

2. Also, dipshits, there are people in the Middle East who are Christians. Lebanon, Syria, etc.

3. It also assumes all Muslims live in the Middle East.... even though a majority of Muslims aren't even Arab. Turks, Indians, Indonesians, other Southeast Asian groups, various African groups, etc.

4. Asia - assumes everyone in Asia is somehow just one "Asian" group, ignoring the distinct cultures, languages, and ethnicities. Once again, way to go, dipshits.

5. Not gonna get too much into Israel, but it should be noted Jews are divided into various ethnicities themselves. Ashkenazic Jews (most Jews in the US, basically; mental image of Jewish people in Western World), Sepharadic, Mizrahi, Beta Israel, and others. Once again, nice going dipshits.

6. Assumes Mexican people are all a homogeneous ethnicity. This one really pisses me off considering I'm Mexican but I'm more European looking than most Mexicans.... not to mention many other Mexicans who aren't Mestizo [Mestizos being the mental image most people have of Mexicans] (Amerindian, predominately European, etc). It also plays into the "Hispanic=Mexican" thing. Once again, nice fucking going, dipshits.

7. What the hell is a "white country" anyway? Arguably, a lot of countries are "white countries" if at one point they had a white-dominated aristocracy. Oh, and other countries that aren't white have multiculturalism as well. This graph makes multiculturalism to be specifically to "white countries", even though this stuff exists in many other countries.

People can be quite pathetic.....

[brainiac3397]

So Israel not Israeli?

[Desu]

Wrong thread?

I'm so confused.

[James Comey]

I thought we'd turn this into a thread of not just bashing the anti-vaccination movement but other batshit insane or simply plain wrong "information" on the internet.

[timf]

There are parents who have seen their healthy normal children changed in 24hrs into basket cases and the only thing they experienced was a vaccination. These parents who know that their children were harmed by this are bullied by those who are supposed to provide care (their doctors) and those who supposedly support them (crackpots). People have looked into the technology of vaccinations and even the mercury that is used as a preservative in multi-dose shots.

However, what is not properly understood is that there is what is considered an "acceptable" level of side effects. I worked with a guy that contracted polio from a polio vaccine when he was a kid. He told me that a percentage of the money charged for the polio vaccine goes into a fund to pay those few children who get polio from the vaccine.

There are other side effects such as brain inflammation. Brain tissue can swell dramatically in reaction to a vaccination and cause permanent damage. I suspect that if one were to find the cause of this infrequent, but real damage, it would be among those side effects that are considered "acceptable".

[brainiac3397]

Vaccine for Tb also likely to give you tb. As well as only providing a varying degree of resistance and immunity.

[Absnt]

(04-14-2014 11:51 PM)timf Wrote:  There are parents who have seen their healthy normal children changed in 24hrs into basket cases and the only thing they experienced was a vaccination. These parents who know that their children were harmed by this are bullied by those who are supposed to provide care (their doctors) and those who supposedly support them (crackpots). People have looked into the technology of vaccinations and even the mercury that is used as a preservative in multi-dose shots.

You can't really take these sorts of isolated incidents, almost always hearsay, and draw any sort of reasonable conclusion based on them. You should keep in mind that there's growing studies that have identified autism-regression as a common occurance. That is, children develop normally, then suddenly begin regressing into a more noticably autistic state. http://www.autismspeaks.org/news/news-it...regression

There's no proof that this is caused by vaccinations, and personally I haven't even seen any verified instances of regression occuring over a 24 hour period. We can't really proceed on a few claims of this occuring. It's just not a tennable position scientifically.

Quote:However, what is not properly understood is that there is what is considered an "acceptable" level of side effects. I worked with a guy that contracted polio from a polio vaccine when he was a kid. He told me that a percentage of the money charged for the polio vaccine goes into a fund to pay those few children who get polio from the vaccine.

Yeah, that's pretty well understood. Some vaccines can have adverse effects. I myself recieved a flu vaccine and was pretty sick for a few days. So what?

Quote:There are other side effects such as brain inflammation. Brain tissue can swell dramatically in reaction to a vaccination and cause permanent damage. I suspect that if one were to find the cause of this infrequent, but real damage, it would be among those side effects that are considered "acceptable".

Ibprofen can cause a serious illness in which a persons skin starts to fall off in layers until they die, as does a number of other popular medications. Are we going to ban this because no amount of risk is "acceptable"? Bad things happen, people die. The thing we have to remember is that vaccinations have vastly improved our quality of life, they are essential to a modern society and have saved countless lives. Should we continue to investigate? Sure. Should we try to improve? Of course. But sensational claims and scare-mongering accepted medicine is not the right way to go about this. There are economic considerations, funding problems, a huge lack of resources, a broken health care system, etc, etc... Things are not ideal, and science doesn't always work the way we want it to. We make discoveries when we make them, often by accident. There's a lot of variables, it's a very complex problem. I think simplistically calling out specific areas of medicine and science and demonizing them is really more harmful than it is helpful.

[KFC Nyan Cat]

Suggestion: Never listen to Autism Speaks. As someone with Asperger's Syndrome (High-functioning autism,) one of their videos truly offended me, they REFUSE to hire autistic people, they REFUSE to recognize Asperger's Syndrome, and they are a proponent of the anti-vaccination movement?

Don't even look at them.

[Chanku]

actually I think some organizations are not even recognizing it in it's current form,


"The diagnosis of Asperger's was eliminated in the 2013 fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) and replaced by a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder on a severity scale"

[Desu]

(04-14-2014 11:51 PM)timf Wrote:  There are parents who have seen their healthy normal children changed in 24hrs into basket cases and the only thing they experienced was a vaccination. These parents who know that their children were harmed by this are bullied by those who are supposed to provide care (their doctors) and those who supposedly support them (crackpots). People have looked into the technology of vaccinations and even the mercury that is used as a preservative in multi-dose shots.

However, what is not properly understood is that there is what is considered an "acceptable" level of side effects. I worked with a guy that contracted polio from a polio vaccine when he was a kid. He told me that a percentage of the money charged for the polio vaccine goes into a fund to pay those few children who get polio from the vaccine.

There are other side effects such as brain inflammation. Brain tissue can swell dramatically in reaction to a vaccination and cause permanent damage. I suspect that if one were to find the cause of this infrequent, but real damage, it would be among those side effects that are considered "acceptable".

Absent already said what I was going to say pretty much.

I'll just add one thing: The mercury thing is very commonly repeated by the anti-vaccination crowd, but they have no understanding of chemistry.

Mercury is used in vaccines, you are correct, however, that is still a misleading statement. The specific compound is "thiomersal". When people talk about the toxicity of mercury, what they really mean is "methylmercury" which is a completely different compound that is bioaccumulative and the compound that is found in seafood. There is no methylmercury in vaccines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_..._consensus

Quote: "However, the experiments showing effects of thimerosal on biochemical pathways in cell culture systems and showing abnormalities in the immune system or metal metabolism in people with autism are provocative; the autism research community should consider the appropriate composition of the autism research portfolio with some of these new findings in mind. However, these experiments do not provide evidence of a relationship between vaccines or thimerosal and autism. In the absence of experimental or human evidence that vaccination (either the MMR vaccine or the preservative thimerosal) affects metabolic, developmental, immune, or other physiological or molecular mechanisms that are causally related to the development of autism, the committee concludes that the hypotheses generated to date are theoretical only."[2]

The committee concludes:

"Thus, based on this body of evidence, the committee concludes that the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism."[2] [bold in original]