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The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

If you want to write about your experiences in school, you can write on our blog.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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I have officially given up on life.
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True Scotsman

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Post: #1
I have officially given up on life.

This morning I was on top of the world. I was going to write some chapters in a story I hadn't touched for months and program something in a language none of you have heard of or will give two metric microshits about, and the world would be a marginally more interesting place.

But the things I am good for are worthless. So I really have no reason to continue doing anything ever. After all the only things worth doing are those that can earn money. And obviously the best way to find out what plans might work is to keep me in school when, knowing my worthless brain that has more value as dog food than as my seat of consciousness, making any kind of progress on plans will take multiple uninterrupted hours. Of course, nobody around me can understand that. None of them are capable of having a train of thought that lasts multiple hours. They think somehow it's possible to "suspend" a thought process until later. They think this because they have done it... no, you haven't. It's called being an imbecile and not being able to recall the conclusion you came to the last time you asked yourself the exact same question.

But I have to have a plan. I have to want more bullshit forced down my throat by one of a duotrigintillion identical colleges, but somehow think 1-2 are somehow different from the others, or I have to want to sell myself into slavery "repairing air conditioners." Yes, my parents think that the best use of my mind is REPAIRING FUCKING AIR CONDITIONERS.

A fucking factory robot probably makes the things, for gods sake! If it's simple enough for a robot to make then it's simple enough for one of the other people at my school, the more apelike ones, to repair. I know that sounded elitist. Good. I want people to know exactly what kind of worthless, hateful abomination I am.

So since I must have a plan, here it fucking is:

1. BS everything.
2. Hem and haw.
3. Help make people's lives slightly more bearable and livable by means of conversation, commiseration, and similarly useful but worthless services, until my life is absolute hell (this will be next year when family will want me to sell myself into slavery).
4. Suddenly, one morning I am found impaled on a metal pole.
5. Everyone says "oh he had so much potential" when all I could do was make pixels light up in worthless patterns.
6. They wonder "why it had to happen" without examining their own actions.
7. They come out of it no wiser, no more intelligent, no more understanding of what I was, not even feeling slightly guilty for not doing something more.
8. They go back to being loud, brainless pigs incapable of understanding anyone who is not a carbon copy of them.

Thank you. Have an awful day.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-08-2014 08:18 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #2
I have officially given up on life.

You're devolving into cynicism, nihilism, and possibly solipsism. Turn around!

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
03-08-2014 08:39 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  After all the only things worth doing are those that can earn money.

How did you come to that conclusion?

The way I see it, that's not true at all. Yes, it's worth having a plan for making money, at least enough to live on. But, it's possible to do that while devoting time to other things, for one. (Also, it's possible to find ways to making money with your interests. But until that happens, it's entirely possible to pursue interests and make money in other ways.)

(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Of course, nobody around me can understand that. None of them are capable of having a train of thought that lasts multiple hours. They think somehow it's possible to "suspend" a thought process until later. They think this because they have done it... no, you haven't.

I can certainly relate to that, on many levels. One solution is to connect with people beyond the ones in your immediate life... like you're already doing to some extent here. There are many opportunities to branch out beyond forum conversations, and there are many people in the world you might find can hold a thought and pick back up a conclusion for further discussion. Smile

(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  But I have to have a plan. I have to want more bullshit forced down my throat by one of a duotrigintillion identical colleges, but somehow think 1-2 are somehow different from the others, or I have to want to sell myself into slavery "repairing air conditioners." Yes, my parents think that the best use of my mind is REPAIRING FUCKING AIR CONDITIONERS.

Simply put, consider Taking a Third Option. One step in that process is usually brainstorming. Many people here are also dealing the question of plans for beyond school. I think it'd be a good topic for a series of chats and/or Hangouts, as well as forum threads.

Questions:

How soon will you be finished with high school?

What do your parents want for you, beyond the ability to support yourself?

(Very often, suggestions from well-meaning others end up being poor suggestions... but you certainly don't have to take them as the only options.)

It seems like you're in quite a pit of despair at the moment... but are you open to the potential of there being more to life -- and to other people -- and to your own potential -- than your above list indicates?

Just a little bit? Smile

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03-08-2014 09:17 AM
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True Scotsman

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Post: #4
RE: I have officially given up on life.

Turn around and go where? Back to oppression? I would rather be run through a shredder.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-08-2014 09:17 AM
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Post: #5
I have officially given up on life.

Quote:After all the only things worth doing are those that can earn money.

that's almost true. almost everything can be bought with money, everything is easier to do with than without money, so earning money is a very general way of opening up future possibilities.

"I never said half the shit people say i did." -Albert Einstein

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail, there is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers. That is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."-Stephen Hawking

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
03-08-2014 09:27 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #6
RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Turn around and go where? Back to oppression? I would rather be run through a shredder.
Take a third option. Surely your intelligence, rivaling that of the unfocused cattle around you, can lead you to a favorable solution?

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
03-08-2014 09:36 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #7
I have officially given up on life.

Hug

How much longer do you legally have to endure the company of those people?

I think once you get away from them, after some recovery time doing things that matter to you without annoying interruptions... maybe you'll figure out how to make a living doing that.

Don't give up... it gets better.

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03-08-2014 09:37 AM
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True Scotsman

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Post: #8
RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  After all the only things worth doing are those that can earn money.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Because that's all that is supported. All that I am encouraged to do. Not even when I do something like I mentioned above, writing or programming -- even if it's not something I can profit from, it's practice. But I'm discouraged from doing that because whenever I do something that interests me I'm seized by horrible guilt. I don't know exactly why; it happens without any comment from others. It's not something I can easily get away from.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  The way I see it, that's not true at all. Yes, it's worth having a plan for making money, at least enough to live on. But, it's possible to do that while devoting time to other things, for one. (Also, it's possible to find ways to making money with your interests. But until that happens, it's entirely possible to pursue interests and make money in other ways.)

Yes, but everything short of "winning the lottery" seems to demand total subservience and time devotion.

Also I am simply incapable of putting up with the tedium of normal jobs. If I "got a job at Starbucks," as my oh so wise mother claims is the only path other than "go to college and get brainwashed" or "repair air conditioners," I would probably drown myself in the toilet out of boredom.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Of course, nobody around me can understand that. None of them are capable of having a train of thought that lasts multiple hours. They think somehow it's possible to "suspend" a thought process until later. They think this because they have done it... no, you haven't.

I can certainly relate to that, on many levels. One solution is to connect with people beyond the ones in your immediate life... like you're already doing to some extent here. There are many opportunities to branch out beyond forum conversations, and there are many people in the world you might find can hold a thought and pick back up a conclusion for further discussion. Smile

Fantastic! Unfortunately, my family does not seem to think that people on the internet actually exist. I have no idea why. But they believe that internet friendships and communities are somehow hollow and "real life" friendships and communities are somehow more "fulfilling." Even though online I can connect better with people who share my interests and values, somehow being forced into a group of people with nothing more in common than geographical location is the "socially correct" thing to do.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  But I have to have a plan. I have to want more bullshit forced down my throat by one of a duotrigintillion identical colleges, but somehow think 1-2 are somehow different from the others, or I have to want to sell myself into slavery "repairing air conditioners." Yes, my parents think that the best use of my mind is REPAIRING FUCKING AIR CONDITIONERS.

Simply put, consider Taking a Third Option. One step in that process is usually brainstorming. Many people here are also dealing the question of plans for beyond school. I think it'd be a good topic for a series of chats and/or Hangouts, as well as forum threads.

Questions:

How soon will you be finished with high school?

A year and a few months from now.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  What do your parents want for you, beyond the ability to support yourself?

I don't know. They claim to support my desire to be a writer. But they also seem to want me to have some kind of soul-crushing experience (either broken schooling, corrupt college, or brain-pulverizing work) at every point in my life. I don't think they understand that when I get home from school, the reason I "goof off" is not because I am lazy, but because I am just exhausted. It isn't physical exhaustion so not immediately visible. It's emotional exhaustion, and I guess that they just want to continue the toxic stereotype of thinking the ideal is being perfectly resilient and putting up with infinite amounts of BS.

They themselves have very low tolerance for BS, but cannot see the parallels between their work and stupid people BS and my school and stupid societal expectations BS.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  (Very often, suggestions from well-meaning others end up being poor suggestions... but you certainly don't have to take them as the only options.)

They are not suggestions. They are YOU MUST DO ONE OF THESE THREE THINGS, OR FIND AN ALTERNATIVE IN A WORLD THAT OPPOSES FINDING AN ALTERNATIVE ultimatums. And they may think they are presenting "find an alternative" with equal weight to the other options, but the others require much less thought (and thus, time) and they aren't giving me any kind of relief time-wise.

(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  It seems like you're in quite a pit of despair at the moment... but are you open to the potential of there being more to life -- and to other people -- and to your own potential -- than your above list indicates?

Just a little bit? Smile

Probably.
But it doesn't help that when I try to see the bright side of the world, the unpleasant and über-conformist side pushes itself in my face and belittles me.

-

I am going to try and clear my head with some good ol'-fashioned violence against liquids, and then reply to the rest of the messages.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-08-2014 10:44 AM
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Post: #9
RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-08-2014 09:27 AM)Potato Wrote:  
Quote:After all the only things worth doing are those that can earn money.

that's almost true. almost everything can be bought with money, everything is easier to do with than without money, so earning money is a very general way of opening up future possibilities.

Oh thank you. You didn't make me want to die more or anything like that.

(03-08-2014 09:36 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Turn around and go where? Back to oppression? I would rather be run through a shredder.
Take a third option. Surely your intelligence, rivaling that of the unfocused cattle around you, can lead you to a favorable solution?

Possibly. But since apparently I must be a slave to the economy, I must get money from someplace. Namely, other people. Who are, as you say, unfocused cattle who want more unfocused cattle. Anything I can offer will be worthless.

(03-08-2014 09:37 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Hug

How much longer do you legally have to endure the company of those people?

FORRREEEEEEEVVAAAAAAAHHHHH

They are the annoying type of people who think that since we are related genetically, we are also related personality-ly. And would insist on maintaining contact for eternity even after numerous arguments. They would say that I must change because they "need" me to agree with them on everything, rather than just break off contact and mutually save time and reduce conflict.

(03-08-2014 09:37 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  I think once you get away from them, after some recovery time doing things that matter to you without annoying interruptions... maybe you'll figure out how to make a living doing that.

Don't give up... it gets better.

A recovery time... during which food, housing etc are paid for how?

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-08-2014 02:44 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #10
I have officially given up on life.

Have you tried seeking the company of non-cattle?

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
03-08-2014 02:49 PM
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RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-08-2014 02:49 PM)DoA Wrote:  Have you tried seeking the company of non-cattle?

Yes, I did. I had a very hard time finding any, and most of those were partially cattle anyway.

Suddenly, they start playing a certain tabletop RPG. (Person I emailed this thread to, take note.) I do not enjoy tabletop RPGs, so I didn't join in. Only one of them was actually non-cattle enough for me to consider a friend outside school. i.e. he was the only one I liked. The others I merely disliked less than the idiots that make up the rest of my school. And conveniently he was hosting the games at the only time I could visit him.

Previously to this we would often spend the weekends at each other's houses, and this was my main release of anger. It was literally impossible to be angry in his presence. Granted, I would often stay up till the wee hours of the morning hating the world, but this was one night every 2-3 weeks. Now I can't get to sleep till 11-12 most nights (going to bed 1-2 hours before that) because my brain is too busy thinking about exactly how bad things have become.

Around the time he started hosting these games (or perhaps a few weeks after, my memory is bad) he withdrew from the school because someone brought in a gun. So now he only comes every other day for a computer class he can't take online (ironic, that) and I never get to talk to him for more than half a lunch period.

But even from that I can tell that he's changed. I'm actually capable of being angry not just near him, but at him. He seems to have built an entire life with the other "friends" I had, and I don't really feel welcome to it. They all seem so... serious. Boring. As much as I would like to disintegrate the creator of this word, "mature." While I prefer to play (non arcanely complex to the point of brain cell suicide) games, make jokes, do... for lack of a better term, "fun stuff."

He even doesn't remember how vehemently I oppose ageism. That was a major thing. I don't think I even shared how strongly I felt with anyone I knew in person but him until the recent... explosion, let's call it. (Not a literal explosion.)

Even now he's still the most connected-to-me out of the lot of them, and holy fuck that sounds egocentric but I'm beyond caring. So I have to mass-produce notes not unlike the top post of this thread, to hand off to him to read. I have to be dying on the inside every second of every day (yes, I use that sort of language in those notes, shoot me) to get him to pay any mind. Like what was once a friendship is now an obligation to "take care of the guy who can't take care of himself."

TL;DR, I tried. There are no non-cattle left around me that do not know what a minefield it is to put up with my uselessness. Also, the one guy who once could help now can't, and this really pisses me off.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-08-2014 03:26 PM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #12
I have officially given up on life.

I'm detecting a common theme here: you feel alone, isolated. You seek to be understood, but few can and fewer are doing it right. To make matters worse, you are expected to be a part of society, and the people with these expectations do not realize that you might have to betray yourself to do so.

I know what it's like. No, not exactly what it's like, obviously, but my problems are similar enough for me to not have any more of a solution than suggestions for avoiding the problem.

Despite this, I will not permit my will to be broken.

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
03-08-2014 03:47 PM
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RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-08-2014 03:47 PM)DoA Wrote:  I know what it's like. No, not exactly what it's like, obviously, but my problems are similar enough for me to not have any more of a solution than suggestions for avoiding the problem.

Yeah, a lot of these things have parallels to many other people's situations... even though there are differences as well. I have a sense of how to begin figuring out solutions, though. DoA, how your problems are similar?

I can certainly think of similarities from various points in my life, even though I've generally had a sense that (1) things can get better, (2) life is worth living, and (3) people around me have had substantially limited perspectives about what's possible.

And yet, what to do in the meantime has often been a challenge. And I'm still trying to figure parts of it all out.


(03-08-2014 10:44 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  After all the only things worth doing are those that can earn money.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Because that's all that is supported. All that I am encouraged to do. Not even when I do something like I mentioned above, writing or programming -- even if it's not something I can profit from, it's practice. But I'm discouraged from doing that because whenever I do something that interests me I'm seized by horrible guilt. I don't know exactly why; it happens without any comment from others. It's not something I can easily get away from.

This gets at an important distinction: what's going on inside you (being seized by guilt without comment from others), vs. the input you are getting from others (which may not be so supportive), vs. the (possible) reality of things in the world at large... which may take some searching to find.

I've personally faced the problem of an internal feeling that pursuing things that bring me joy is "bad" or "wrong." I have a pretty good sense of where that's come from: for one, specific comments and criticisms at various points ("don't do that!" in and out of school), combined with being around others who themselves have learned that hey have to suppress the pursuit of joy or happiness, knuckle down and deal with the not-to-be-questioned cold, hard reality of life.

I don't agree with any of that, consciously, but the psyche can end up absorbing those things, and it can take some work to disentangle.

However, it is possible to disentangle these inner factors, and experiencing substantial transformation within one's own psyche. Having the sense that it's possible can help open the doors to it being possible.

The neurobiological explanation for that is neuroplasticity.

I'm sure Potato will take issue with this, but here's a clip from Dan Siegel talkiing about this potential for people to change:

Hidden stuff:

(03-08-2014 10:44 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Yes, but everything short of "winning the lottery" seems to demand total subservience and time devotion.

It may seem that way, but that's not how it has to be. If you want to prioritize things other than material gain, it's possible to earn money working part time, and devote your other time to other pursuits.

It's also possible to find ways to earn money from things you do find interesting and/or fulfilling. But, finding these combinations that work for you can require some searching.

In my case, I've often believed in finding such combinations, but I haven't found them. Over time, I've realized that they often were out there, even though I didn't have the maps and supports to find them.

I can explain what I mean in more detail... but in short, it's worth questioning what "seems" to be the case.

(03-08-2014 10:44 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Also I am simply incapable of putting up with the tedium of normal jobs. If I "got a job at Starbucks," as my oh so wise mother claims is the only path other than "go to college and get brainwashed" or "repair air conditioners," I would probably drown myself in the toilet out of boredom.

I can totally relate to that. Some people simply require variety and novelty in their lives to be fulfilled -- or even to make it through the day -- as opposed to tedium. Believe it or not, some people are happy with tedium. That's why figuring out what makes you different is key, and why sometimes the advice of others just doesn't fit.

Check out this article for more about a trait some researches call "novelty seeking" --

What’s New? Exuberance for Novelty Has Benefits

(Back when was first on the forums here, in 2005, I had latched onto that trait as a partial explanation for who I was, how I was different, and how many of us who question school might be different. But the research showed novelty-seeking associated with such negative things, as that article describes. And yet, I was convinced that novelty-seeking could be a very positive trait in the right circumstances... a point that article conveniently makes. Smile

In short... if you dislike tedium, keep that in mind for your search for jobs, whether they be menial or not. Some have a lot more variety and interesting aspects than others.

(03-08-2014 10:44 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Fantastic! Unfortunately, my family does not seem to think that people on the internet actually exist. I have no idea why. But they believe that internet friendships and communities are somehow hollow and "real life" friendships and communities are somehow more "fulfilling." Even though online I can connect better with people who share my interests and values, somehow being forced into a group of people with nothing more in common than geographical location is the "socially correct" thing to do.

Well, these people do exist. I exist. And, for that matter, everyone on the planet exists, whether or not your family knows anything about them. (See Desu's thread, Other people's lives are as real as your own, for more on that reality.

"Real life" friendships and communities do offer something different from purely online ones. However, it's possible to meet people from online communities in "real life," and it's possible to interact with people from "real life" online.

Personally, I think the combination of in-person and online interactions can provide a depth that neither form of interaction alone tends to make possible.

I think many of us "cognitive refugees" -- and simply introverts, and people who are different in whatever way -- do better connecting online, at least at first, then in random mixes of people we might encounter in day-to-day life.

Yet, those seemingly random people, or "cattle," sometimes do have more depth to them than may first be apparent. Hansgrohe gave an example of this in this reply to his thread I'm sorry, and thank you. In short, sometimes people who seem like one-dimensional Flat Characters do, in fact, have Hidden Depths, Backstories, and capaticities for Redemption and/or Character Development.

And yet, that doesn't mean the circles of people you know, or the random people you encounter, at a given point in your life, have all there is to discover. That's where continuing to search beyond what you know can have tremendous value... even if that, by nature, involves risk, uncertainty, and moments of doubt.

After all, Hope is Scary, or at least it can induce many varieties of cognitive dissonance.

And all that makes me think of a particular song... though I have no idea if it'd be relevant to you, or anyone else.

Hidden stuff:

(Music is such a strange thing... what resonates with one person can repel another... what clicks at one point in time can seem dissonance in another. I find the same is even true with text, and all kinds of other things. But I'd have to put that song on a list of favorites, however it does or doesn't make sense to others.)

(03-08-2014 10:44 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)xcriteria Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 08:18 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  But I have to have a plan. I have to want more bullshit forced down my throat by one of a duotrigintillion identical colleges, but somehow think 1-2 are somehow different from the others, or I have to want to sell myself into slavery "repairing air conditioners." Yes, my parents think that the best use of my mind is REPAIRING FUCKING AIR CONDITIONERS.

I already replied to this... but it's catching my attention again. Plans are good, but being open to things playing out in other ways has value as well.

I'd add that there are things to learn from college... even though many of those things can also be learned from MOOCs, and other open/free/cheap resources, these days. There are many ways to learn, and many ways to apply knowledge.

So, even though I can very much relate to the pressure of limited, unsatisfactory options, I'd suggest that sometimes other options are, indeed, out there.

I have more replies to the rest of this, but I'm going segment it here for readability, and probably get some sleep before the rest.

tl;dr: There's more to life than the apparent options... and what other people are telling you... at least that's what I like to believe, and what I've often found to be the case.

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RE: I have officially given up on life.

I have more to respond to from above, but this other reply caught my attention...

(03-08-2014 02:44 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:27 AM)Potato Wrote:  
Quote:After all the only things worth doing are those that can earn money.

that's almost true. almost everything can be bought with money, everything is easier to do with than without money, so earning money is a very general way of opening up future possibilities.

Oh thank you. You didn't make me want to die more or anything like that.

Potato's replies often arc toward the negative... in fact, a particular kind of "throw facts at people" kind of negative, which often miss out on other sides of the equation.

For one thing, yes, having money can help. But having some money, as in, enough to live on, and perhaps some extra for savings or problem solving, doesn't have to take up all your time. And, none of that means other activities are worthless!


(03-08-2014 02:44 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:36 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:17 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Turn around and go where? Back to oppression? I would rather be run through a shredder.
Take a third option. Surely your intelligence, rivaling that of the unfocused cattle around you, can lead you to a favorable solution?

Possibly. But since apparently I must be a slave to the economy, I must get money from someplace. Namely, other people. Who are, as you say, unfocused cattle who want more unfocused cattle. Anything I can offer will be worthless.

So depressing. :(

Fortunately, reality doesn't have to be like that!

For the most part, making money does follow from providing value to others in some form. But, that doesn't have to be a grotesquely negative experience.

Branding all humans (or even most) as "mindless cattle" is unfair to other people, just as it's unfair to yourself to think anything you offer would be worthless.

These just strike me as such dark thoughts. Where does that darkness come from?

(03-08-2014 02:44 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:37 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Hug

How much longer do you legally have to endure the company of those people?

FORRREEEEEEEVVAAAAAAAHHHHH

They are the annoying type of people who think that since we are related genetically, we are also related personality-ly. And would insist on maintaining contact for eternity even after numerous arguments. They would say that I must change because they "need" me to agree with them on everything, rather than just break off contact and mutually save time and reduce conflict.

As an adult (especially after managing a degree of independence), you don't have to be bound by their wishes.

Beyond that, sometimes maintaining contact can be worth it. It really depends on the circumstances. But it seems to me that it's worth finding your way out of those tight family grips, which seem to really add to your negative sense of life.

(03-08-2014 02:44 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  
(03-08-2014 09:37 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  I think once you get away from them, after some recovery time doing things that matter to you without annoying interruptions... maybe you'll figure out how to make a living doing that.

Don't give up... it gets better.

A recovery time... during which food, housing etc are paid for how?

Good question. That's one reason I think we should establish a sort of fund, and support network, for those who are seeking paths out of life-as-usual.

But in practical terms, however things are paid for (your own pay from working, debt, contributions, etc.) I think it's worth planning ahead a bit. Rather than just asking the question of "how is this paid for," people can plan in advance how college-alternative programs might look.

More in the morning.

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I have officially given up on life.

xcriteria Wrote:Potato's replies often arc toward the negative... in fact, a particular kind of "throw facts at people" kind of negative, which often miss out on other sides of the equation.

"a particular kind of "throw facts at people" kind of negative" i find that flattering

"I never said half the shit people say i did." -Albert Einstein

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03-09-2014 02:03 AM
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Post: #16
I have officially given up on life.

Quote:"a particular kind of "throw facts at people" kind of negative" i find that flattering
The Potato has feelings after all! Giggle

Quote:Even now he's still the most connected-to-me out of the lot of them, and holy fuck that sounds egocentric but I'm beyond caring. So I have to mass-produce notes not unlike the top post of this thread, to hand off to him to read. I have to be dying on the inside every second of every day (yes, I use that sort of language in those notes, shoot me) to get him to pay any mind. Like what was once a friendship is now an obligation to "take care of the guy who can't take care of himself."
I know that feeling... Hug

I was pretty messed up and lonely, then one person took an interest in me, then that person made more friends and took less interest in me, then I think I started getting clingy and annoying and made her want to spend less time with me, rather than more... :/

That was in school, though... after I got out, I found a whole bunch of awesome friends by following my interests (going to LANs, and a computer college full of gamer geeks).

Try to find some way to follow your interests to a place where other people of the same interest are likely to go... maybe you'll get lucky like I did.

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RE: I have officially given up on life.

...
Feeling even worse today. I mean REALLY HORRIBLE. To the point that I don't see any reason to write about it, nothing will come of it. I am an insult to the value of human life.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-13-2014 08:08 AM
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Post: #18
I have officially given up on life.

Hug
You're not an insult to anything. You're a smart person who's surrounded by idiots... don't let them and their silly ideas drag you down.

What happened?

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03-13-2014 08:28 AM
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RE: I have officially given up on life.

Nothing "happened." I just thought for a bit and realized exactly how hopeless my situation is.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-13-2014 08:30 AM
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RE: I have officially given up on life.

Maybe it isn't as hopeless as you think?

What about life beyond your current situation? New people, places, experiences... opportunities to change and/or be yourself as makes sense... couldn't that provide some hope?

If not, why not?

And if you'd like to explain more, we're here to read what you have to say. That's something, is it not? (Even if your family doesn't believe people on the Internet are real.)

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RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-13-2014 08:30 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Nothing "happened." I just thought for a bit and realized exactly how hopeless my situation is.

I would consider this form of epiphany a "happening". How'd you come to it?

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
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RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-13-2014 08:38 AM)DoA Wrote:  
(03-13-2014 08:30 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  Nothing "happened." I just thought for a bit and realized exactly how hopeless my situation is.

I would consider this form of epiphany a "happening". How'd you come to it?

I guess just the same old stuff culminating and reaching a breaking point.

I am so absolutely tired of the people around me. I wish I could just tear their internal organs out so I could have some peace and quiet without being harassed by parents about not having the right beliefs and interests.

I am more resilient than most people think. The truth is that for whatever reason, my parents think that school is all sunshine and rainbows and my teachers think that home is all sunshine and rainbows. Therefore whenever I get mad, only half of the BS I put up with is taken into account, and I get flak for "overreacting." Of course this adds to the amount of BS and it all piles up.

I'm also told there is "more to life than a computer." I'm sorry? What else is there around this horrible worthless house?

1. Some books. Around 20% of them I have read (and unfortunately I have a good memory, so I have to wait YEARS before rereading and getting enjoyment), the others look too pulp-fiction and cookie cutter, or extremely boring and technical (accounting and law books).
2. Some board games. Unfortunately, no 2 people in the house want to play the same game, ever. EVER. Fuck backgammon! I hate backgammon! I would rather play chess! I would even deign to interact with my dad for a good game of chess, something I haven't had in over a year! But noooo, he only wants to play stupid backgammon! And my mom only wants to sit in her chair, read stupid cranked-out crime novels, and lecture me on how my experiences are somehow too limited.
3. Outside. Woo. The reason I was told "there is more to life than a computer" was I didn't want to go for a walk at a park I hate. I hate it because it's near a dirty river and it smells horrible, and we always walk the same exact route there anyway so it's hardly a "change of scenery." And we take the dog in the car which is just horrible. And I usually get relegated to walking the dog, and holding her back when she wants to jump on people. And then my parents wonder why the soles of my shoes wear out so fast.
If I wanted to go outside, I would run away and become a subsistence farmer in some place too disorganized to track me down. Seriously, if I was an "outdoors" person, that would be INFINITELY preferable!
4. The friend I mentioned above is out of town for spring break. I don't know where any of the other non cattle live (except one, and he has very unpleasant parents). So I don't really have anyone to interact with except my own very unpleasant parents, and "not real" online people. Guess which one I choose?

But anyway I'm just defending my old worthless ways so I should probably shut up before someone says "first world problems" and I have to dismember them.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
03-14-2014 05:21 AM
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Post: #23
I have officially given up on life.

Quote:I should probably shut up before someone says "first world problems" and I have to dismember them.
People who say "first world problems" should be dismembered. Razz

Do you have something you can use as a punching bag?

Sign up for karate or something?

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RE: I have officially given up on life.

(03-14-2014 05:21 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  I am more resilient than most people think. The truth is that for whatever reason, my parents think that school is all sunshine and rainbows and my teachers think that home is all sunshine and rainbows. Therefore whenever I get mad, only half of the BS I put up with is taken into account, and I get flak for "overreacting." Of course this adds to the amount of BS and it all piles up.

I'm also told there is "more to life than a computer." I'm sorry? What else is there around this horrible worthless house?

There's more to life than what your parents are telling you. When you get this flak, or think about your parents' perspectives, step back and consider there are plenty of people who look at things very differently.

If those people aren't in your in-person life, or even your online life now, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Smile

(03-14-2014 05:21 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  1. Some books. Around 20% of them I have read (and unfortunately I have a good memory, so I have to wait YEARS before rereading and getting enjoyment), the others look too pulp-fiction and cookie cutter, or extremely boring and technical (accounting and law books).
2. Some board games. Unfortunately, no 2 people in the house want to play the same game, ever. EVER. Fuck backgammon! I hate backgammon! I would rather play chess! I would even deign to interact with my dad for a good game of chess, something I haven't had in over a year! But noooo, he only wants to play stupid backgammon! And my mom only wants to sit in her chair, read stupid cranked-out crime novels, and lecture me on how my experiences are somehow too limited.
3. Outside. Woo. The reason I was told "there is more to life than a computer" was I didn't want to go for a walk at a park I hate. I hate it because it's near a dirty river and it smells horrible, and we always walk the same exact route there anyway so it's hardly a "change of scenery." And we take the dog in the car which is just horrible. And I usually get relegated to walking the dog, and holding her back when she wants to jump on people. And then my parents wonder why the soles of my shoes wear out so fast.
If I wanted to go outside, I would run away and become a subsistence farmer in some place too disorganized to track me down. Seriously, if I was an "outdoors" person, that would be INFINITELY preferable!
4. The friend I mentioned above is out of town for spring break. I don't know where any of the other non cattle live (except one, and he has very unpleasant parents). So I don't really have anyone to interact with except my own very unpleasant parents, and "not real" online people. Guess which one I choose?

So, you're coming from an understandable position. Again, try to differentiate your parents' views from an objective interpretation of your situation. I know it can be hard, psychologically, to do that... but if you set that as an intention, it's likely to become much easier.

(03-14-2014 05:21 AM)planetfall666 Wrote:  But anyway I'm just defending my old worthless ways so I should probably shut up before someone says "first world problems" and I have to dismember them.

You've internalized a lot of negative assessments of your situation, who you are and what you do. :(

The question is then how to step back and reframe those interpretations. As DoA says in his signature, "First world problems are still problems," and as Desu wrote about in his popular thread, Other people's lives are as real as your own.

Likewise, your life is as real and significant as other people's.

All those absorbed messages in your head say otherwise... and it may not be east to just switch them off... but you can start the process of disentangling them. I've had to do this myself at various points, and I've dealt with a huge amount of similar internal negativity as well, that follows from those interpretations-by-others.

It's possible to move past those things, and it makes life a lot better!

Are you familiar with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? I can imagine a somewhat different version of it that focuses more on this problem of "absorbed negative evaluations by others" in the form you describe. But, the basic idea is to develop metacognitive awareness and question those automatic, negative thoughts. Very often, they don't align with reality, and they can drain your energy and keep your mental quality of life low, far beyond your objective circumstances.

And then, there's life beyond life as you know it now. That's important to work into your schema, or inner model of the world.

Here's one clip about CBT:



Watch on YouTube

Does that seem helpful at all?

Beyond that, I suggest reflecting on your interests. You've said you're interested in writing, and programming, right? Even if you don't feel your interests are supported, that doesn't mean they aren't worth pursuing.

That's where it's worth differentiating internal barriers from those imposed by others. If you've absorbed other people's negativity into your view of your interests, that might be quite a bit to disentangle, but you have to start somewhere.

Anyway, thoughts on that? Does any of that seem like it might lead to a path out of the darkness?

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03-15-2014 03:40 AM
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Ky Offline
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I have officially given up on life.

Well, as I always say, first world problems a- *gets dismembered* -re still problems. In fact, they are almost incomparable to third world problems and are known to leave some of the deepest emotional scars if no solution is found; at least poor people in poor countries have permission to die if they can't overcome. The rest have to suffer.

I'm sure there's a solution, and you probably know as well as I do that your parents, your school, and your peers don't have it. The only people you can trust are yourself and the few you permit to know more about yourself; as xcriteria said, that might lead to your way out.

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
03-15-2014 06:22 AM
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