You Aren't Like Them

[OutcastNZL]

[Trar]

NICE find. Why not take that sort of plunge (when applicable and not a stupid risk)?

[brainiac3397]

I like it.

[154bmag]

...awesome...

[James Comey]

Like the message. Don't be someone you're not, don't try to make friends with people you're not very familiar with.

[SoulRiser]

Nice find!

[Ky]

So...what IS deja vu for? When I get it it's weird.

[vonunov]

DAE AYN RAND?

LOL WAKE UP SHEEPLE

GEE I SURE WISH I COULD MEET SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS A RICH INNER LIFE LIKE MINE AMONG THIS SEA OF DEAD-EYED ROBOTS







what a load of shit

[Ky]

NO U

[brainiac3397]

Where did Ayn Rand come from?

[Trar]

(12-12-2013 10:04 AM)Jack Wrote:  DAE AYN RAND?

LOL WAKE UP SHEEPLE

GEE I SURE WISH I COULD MEET SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS A RICH INNER LIFE LIKE MINE AMONG THIS SEA OF DEAD-EYED ROBOTS







what a load of shit

I took it as a reminder to appreciate those who you connect with, or could potentially connect with. The 'ROBOTS!' thing is a bit preachy now that I think about it though, especially now that more and more people are vying to reform public education.

[vonunov]

(12-12-2013 10:51 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Where did Ayn Rand come from?

This reeks of the kind of shit you hear from the suburban Randroid teenager. Wow, I'm so enlightened! Look at me, all lucid among the "normal" herd. Ha, ha, what mundanes! Do they ever stop to think about things as they're drifting through their shallow existences? Gee, it sure is tough being so edgy and world-weary this early in life, but I guess I'll have to roll with it. Maybe I can give some lip service to these phrases of social lubrication, but I sure wish I could just launch into deep conversation with a complete stranger without regard for whether they would appreciate being pressured to open up to someone they haven't gotten to know on safer ground yet. If only everyone would wake up, then we wouldn't have to deal with all this meaningless bullshit, amirite guys?

HEY GUYS DOES ANYONE ELSE HATE ~SOCIETY~ LOLOL I MEAN WHAT WERE THEY THINKING

This type of person might also do this: http://www.everything2.com/title/Oh%252C...ng+honesty




I am not special, you are not special, nobody is special; and I resent things like this that suggest otherwise, because if you go around thinking you're living on some higher plane of awareness of what ~really matters~ you're only going to hinder true connections with others.

[no]

Nice to see someone accuse people of being self-righteous and arrogant by being self-righteous and arrogant. It certainly works miracles for my belief in human intelligence.

[vonunov]

I'm sure that sounded real pithy in your head, but did you go ahead and check what those words meant before you used them? 'Cause it seems to me that, seeing as I'm attacking the very idea that any person is superior to the masses in such a way that they need to "find the others", what I'm saying opposes self-righteousness and arrogance.

Possibly the worst part of that comic is the very first panel. "Admit it."

"Well, I tell you what, it sure is tough, but I guess I'll just have to come to terms with the fact that I'm the übermensch. Oh, woe."

[brainiac3397]

Everyone is unique fool. You cant possibly be telling me that your DNA and mine are a perfect match. No? Then science just fahked you up cause Bitch, Im Special.

When I get on the pc, Il give it a more serious analysis(more srs...hah!)

[Gwedin]

Oh shit, Brainiac's getting on the PC!

[brainiac3397]

[brainiac3397]

What was I going to say...

I don't totally disagree. But it seems that the reflected light encoded into a bio-electric signal sent through your optical nerves into your occipital lobe, which was then put into thought by your frontal lobe, has been artificially biased by your temporal lobe analysis of the sensory input.

You look at the comic and see:

(12-12-2013 10:04 AM)Jack Wrote:  DAE AYN RAND?

LOL WAKE UP SHEEPLE

GEE I SURE WISH I COULD MEET SOMEONE ELSE WHO HAS A RICH INNER LIFE LIKE MINE AMONG THIS SEA OF DEAD-EYED ROBOTS







what a load of shit

Yet when I look at it without going into an insane power trip about how everyone is not special, I see a simple comic about how not everyone is comfortable conforming to the basics of society. I for one don't. I don't listen to the shit rap and pop they listen on the radio. I don't dress like a hipster or a "gangsta". I don't watch MTV, or The Jersey Shore or whatever crap they watch. I don't take drugs thinking it makes me popular, smoke cigarettes cause it looks cool and drink cause my social skills fucking suck(and my skills don't suck, thus I don't need to "loosen up"). I don't party like some vibrating bobble-head, or horny dog. I don't FUCK CHICKS DUDE, because I don't need to prove my manhood like they do. I don't threaten to beat people up when confronted, or act like "da boss", because I know I can beat them and they know it too.

I might not be special, but I can say I am on a higher level of awareness. Why? Because by the time they get to that level, I've already been there. While they spend the 4 years of their college "drinking,smoking,getting high and fucking", I'm busy plannning out my future. While they think that nothing bad will ever happen to them because they're god's greatest gift, I see it all as a statistic:You do dumb shit, and you get fucked up.

So when you say "because if you go around thinking you're living on some higher plane of awareness of what ~really matters~ you're only going to hinder true connections with others." I hope you realize that current American society tends to behave EXACTLY this way. The youth of this country think they're above others. If we're above them, then we're better because above them we know what really matters. What really doesn't matter is how many chicks you fucked, or that you have a drug dealer on speed dial, or know a liquor store with an owner you can bribe, or where you can do all the illegal shit in the world.

So perhaps YOU should hit your head into a wall, then hit it from behind for good luck, and get off your HIGH horse because in reality, you're riding a jackass mate...

EDIT:Just to clarify the tone of this post, I am feeling no negative emotions, and think it's funny/fun/amusing/humorous as a discussion. This doesn't mean I'm not serious. If you need visual assurances, please take a look at my mental health status...

[OutcastNZL]

We aren't all the same because we are not special. We are all the same because we are all different. Whatever is "special" depends on the person defining it. The image basically says find the others like you, your affinity group. Kind of like us and SS, it's just one of our many affinity groups.

[Ky]

I think this Jack guy is "special"

[vonunov]

(12-12-2013 03:03 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  I don't totally disagree. But it seems that the reflected light encoded into a bio-electric signal sent through your optical nerves into your occipital lobe, which was then put into thought by your frontal lobe, has been artificially biased by your temporal lobe analysis of the sensory input.

brainiac3397 Wrote:Yet when I look at it without going into an insane power trip about how everyone is not special,

Wait, what? How is this a power trip?

brainiac3397 Wrote:I see a simple comic about how not everyone is comfortable conforming to the basics of society. I for one don't. I don't listen to the shit rap and pop they listen on the radio. I don't dress like a hipster or a "gangsta". I don't watch MTV, or The Jersey Shore or whatever crap they watch. I don't take drugs thinking it makes me popular, smoke cigarettes cause it looks cool and drink cause my social skills fucking suck(and my skills don't suck, thus I don't need to "loosen up"). I don't party like some vibrating bobble-head, or horny dog. I don't FUCK CHICKS DUDE, because I don't need to prove my manhood like they do. I don't threaten to beat people up when confronted, or act like "da boss", because I know I can beat them and they know it too.

I've met far more people who don't care for those bits of pop culture you've mentioned than who do -- they show indifference if not derision. This image of the person whose taste in dress, music, and TV disagrees with yours sure does make a convenient "other" or "they" or "most people" to set yourself apart from, doesn't it? Especially if you imagine that they're some kind of tragic majority.

People who do drugs mostly do it because drugs are fun, not because they think anyone cares. Those who smoke got started at some point for a bad reason, which may have had to do with image, but beyond a very early point it's just something that they're stuck on and most likely want to get away from.

You don't threaten people? Wow! It's shocking that you think this bears mentioning, let alone that you include it in a description of "the basics of society". This kind of thing just isn't as common as the loud minority would lead you to believe.

brainiac3397 Wrote:I might not be special, but I can say I am on a higher level of awareness. Why? Because by the time they get to that level, I've already been there. While they spend the 4 years of their college "drinking,smoking,getting high and fucking", I'm busy planning out my future. While they think that nothing bad will ever happen to them because they're god's greatest gift, I see it all as a statistic:You do dumb shit, and you get fucked up.

That's all good for you. Honestly, though, do you know all that many people who "spend the 4 years of their college 'drinking, smoking, getting high and fucking'"? There are are those who do plenty of that while managing their academics. There are those who wish to put off taking life too seriously, which may not be the best choice when you're paying thousands of dollars a year to do it. But are they such a significant group? Again I feel like we're talking about this nebulous They which may well turn out not to exist in such quantity as you seem to think.

I think we're straying away from the criticism of the comic. That thing you said about thinking yourself on a higher level of awareness, though, is the attitude of superiority I'm arguing against here.

Let's step through it.

Comic Wrote:Admit it. You aren't like them.

This sets my eyes a-rollin' from the very start because, like I said before, the idea that this person's sparkling uniquity is hard to come to terms with, and the suggestion of modesty in the reluctance to acknowledge it, just makes the rest of it all the more distasteful.

Comic Wrote:You're not even close. You may occasionally dress yourself up as one of them, watch the same mindless television shows as they do, maybe even eat the same fast food sometimes.

Wow, not even close! How special. Most anyone reading this will want to apply it to themselves, so of course they'll love it. "Haha, yep, that's me, not even close."

The thing is, there is no dressing up as "one of them" because there is no "them". The only common "them" that really exists is imaginary. Tim Leary looks upon the masses and fails to see that we're all just playing the game, trying to get through. We all have our passions, dreams, and motivations, but it's a lot easier to base sweeping social commentary on glances at the business district crowds than to actually get to know any of these people, isn't it?

Comic Wrote:But it seems that the more you try to fit in, the more you feel like an outsider ...

Maybe that's because trying to fit in is what you do in high school and when you dig out that dress you haven't worn in several years. If you try to squeeze yourself into some (imaginary!) mold, you're just going to alienate yourself from yourself -- get some of the old cognitive dissonance going.

Comic Wrote:... watching the "normal people" as they go about their automatic existences.

This is where the eyerolling peaked. It's super easy to imagine that everyone else is living on autopilot, because you can't see inside their minds. The image in this panel might even be worse than the words. We have Mr. Bright walking around all wide-eyed and colored, while the weary grey mill about. There's an angry woman here, a defeated-looking man there, shoulders hunched, brows furrowed, dreams unfulfilled, blah, blah, blah. It's easy, once again, to take these archetypes and make believe everyone -- the "normal people" -- is like that.

I can only hope that in using quotation marks around "normal people" -- and indeed in most of what he says in this quote -- Leary was quoting the way something was expressed by whomever he was talking to, using ideas familiar to them to deliver his message. I've heard such great things about him that it's hard to believe he sincerely means all this.

Comic Wrote:For every time you say club passwords like:
Have a nice day.
and:
Weather's awful today, eh?
You yearn inside to say forbidden things like ...

Club passwords? God forbid you should genuinely wish someone a nice day. No, it's just a thing that you utter emptily to fit into society, is that it, Leary?

(Vegeta! What does the scouter say about his Assburger's level?)

The weather as a conversation topic is a favorite for the pseudointellectual to look down upon. "Ooh, look at me and how much I hate small talk. Why can't people just have really meaningful conversations?" What such a person doesn't realize is that remarking on things like the weather is an entryway to exchanging stories and experiences, going off on tangents from there, building rapport. It's a starting point. Not everyone is comfortable leaping right into the heavy or speculative stuff. You can bet I'd be giving that woman a funny look if she just put her hands on my shoulders and said, "TELL ME SOMETHING THAT MAKES YOU CRY." Ha, hey, uh, hi, yeah, I think I saw you at the Christmas party, and we sometimes exchange pleasantries when you walk by. Carol, was it? Cheryl? Anyway, I kind of maybe don't quite know you yet. Why don't we hang out after work so you can get me lubricated before you try to get me to open up that far?

"WHAT DO YOU THINK DEJA VU IS FOR?"

"OH GOD WHAT DO YOU WANT GET THE FUCK OFF THE COUNTER WHO SAID YOU COULD TOUCH ME"

Comic Wrote:Face it ...
... you even want to talk to that girl in the elevator.

If the comic had just started here, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Sure, talk to the girl. Get to know her. See what's there. But the whole thing really could have done without the narrative about this imaginary They who are grey and dead inside.

It's poisonous, this idea that you're the self-aware one in the crowd of automatons, that you need to "find the others" because on the whole, "You aren't like them." News flash: You are a part of Them, and The Others are necessarily also a part of Them. To think otherwise, to imagine that we don't all want more or less the same things for ourselves and aren't all facing similar sets of difficulties in reaching our goals, is to stop yourself from ever finding The Others. They're walking around on the ground with the rest of us, because they are us; people remain two-dimensional only so long as you neglect to know them.

brainiac3397 Wrote:So when you say "because if you go around thinking you're living on some higher plane of awareness of what ~really matters~ you're only going to hinder true connections with others." I hope you realize that current American society tends to behave EXACTLY this way. The youth of this country think they're above others. If we're above them, then we're better because above them we know what really matters. What really doesn't matter is how many chicks you fucked, or that you have a drug dealer on speed dial, or know a liquor store with an owner you can bribe, or where you can do all the illegal shit in the world.

There might be a lot of people who behave this way. I'm not sure of the proportions. It isn't just the youth, though. People of all ages can and do lament their lack of connection to Real People™ when their problem is really that they have trouble looking past what they can see and finding the real person, rather than filling it in for themselves.

It's pitiable in any case. No one need feel alone, but I see people all too often do it to themselves by imagining this great divide between Self and Society.

brainiac3397 Wrote:So perhaps YOU should hit your head into a wall, then hit it from behind for good luck, and get off your HIGH horse because in reality, you're riding a jackass mate...

I'm not seeing how I can be on a high horse when my point is that we all have more in common than Leary gives us credit for. Leary seems to be putting whomever he's talking to on a pedestal above these supposed normals who exist automatically. I'm here to tear down that pedestal, because I hate to see anyone feel like they're alone in the world, and you can't connect with others if you aren't down here on Earth with them.

brainiac3397 Wrote:EDIT:Just to clarify the tone of this post, I am feeling no negative emotions, and think it's funny/fun/amusing/humorous as a discussion. This doesn't mean I'm not serious. If you need visual assurances, please take a look at my mental health status...

[Trar]

Yeah, see. I find people who accuse others of being 'sheeple' and, as I said, ROBOTS! to be more robot sheep-like than most others. I'm fine with antisocial types, but the vast majority of us are more or less a part of greater society (and greater humanity) whether we like it or not.

I think we can agree that the comic is flawed, yet not without merit.

[vonunov]

Just to be clear, the stuff about sheeple and robots was my mocking expression of what [part of] the comic seems to be saying. Not sure how that was received.

Agreed, not without merit. Maybe I reacted rather strongly at first. The ideas expressed seemed to me like the enemy in disguise, purporting to enlighten while in fact dragging the lonely deeper into loneliness, and I sought to insult it into oblivion. :>

E: Okay, now that I'm over the knee-jerk against the first part of the comic, it seems more like Leary is just expressing those sentiments hypothetically or echoing someone else's feelings to lay them out for examination and contrast ("But what if …").

The full quote: http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/514216-a...even-close

Note that "But what if that girl in the elevator (and the balding man who walks past your cubicle at work) are thinking the same thing?" changes to "What if that girl in the elevator is thinking the same thing?" Between this and the artist's visual implication that the man and woman drawn in color are two kindred spirits trying to find each other among the mundanes, the point seems to have been lost in translation, as it were. I think Leary is really trying to say that everyone has feelings as described in about the first half of the quote, and that if you'll only reach out, you'll find that the "others" are all around you, not a rarity to seek out.

Tim Leary, we cool. Now my problem is just with the interpretation in the comic.