Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

[Chanku]

Trar, this is not Pixar. It probably wouldn't take that long...

[Gwedin]

On the contrary. It'd take longer. Pixar has servers upon servers dedicated specifically to rendering.

Hidden stuff:

took me just over 15 hours to render. And that's just one frame. One ratherbasic frame (albeit, in 1080p). Imagine a scene filled with a crap load of characters and buildings. And consider that there is basically a required minimum of 24 frames per second.

Yeah... Rendering isn't fun when you aren't Pixar. Unless we intended to use the services of a render farm. But those are really expensive.

[Chanku]

If we were to go the 3d model route then we might have to cut down the amount of objects on screen.....which wouldn't look too good....

[brainiac3397]

I say we use flash. Nice and easy...

[xcriteria]

(12-14-2013 03:28 PM)Trar Wrote:  Improvisation could have a place in our prospective series. Since we're going to be relying on outside input, maybe we could improvise scenarios in the series. Maybe a scene from a student's home, for example. Obviously we're going to need to have a strong connection to what issue we're trying to get across in an improv scene; having actors who understand it would be good as well.

(12-14-2013 04:03 PM)SubCulture Wrote:  I've had a ton of experience at improv. If I was ever going to do this, I would only use my script as a guide. I've gotten A's on speeches I had no written format of. So yeah, I'm your improv guy.

Yeah, I like the idea of using a script as as starting point. Another form of this, for "reality" formats, is to set up a scenario and see what people do with it... like some kind of challenge or game.

I've actually been thinking about making a conversation game that would be a catalyst for people (real or fictional) to interact in ways that don't always happen automatically.

(That ties into this general theme of facilitating learning conversations, which I think... especially with a sort of improvisational element, and the right mix of people (including educators, administrators, parents, unhappy students, schoolers, psychiatrists, employers, etc.) could add depth to a series like this. (Not to mention, be interesting in real life.)

(12-14-2013 04:28 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Ive always given presentations and speeches without any notes or paper. Never understood why others couldnt really do it. Then again I do often enjoy making up Mussolini style speeches at home as practice. It comes naturally to do without notes.

Would you be up for acting in something like this, and/or participating as yourself in some kind of reality/documentary/hybrid production?

(Same question goes for anyone, but brainiac may have less family/travel issues than others.)

[xcriteria]

(12-15-2013 01:19 PM)Chanku Wrote:  Trar, this is not Pixar. It probably wouldn't take that long...

There are a variety of ways to do animation. 3D is one option, and yes, it's time-consuming and requires a lot of computer power. Drawing the images by hand is another. Using Flash or similar programs is yet another.

All result in different kinds of looks... but all do take time.

(12-15-2013 01:48 PM)Chanku Wrote:  If we were to go the 3d model route then we might have to cut down the amount of objects on screen.....which wouldn't look too good....

Exactly. That, or pay for render farms and get a team of 3D animators. I know one, we could probably find more, but people tend to want to be paid for their time unless they're really passionate about something.

That gets into a big set of topics: money, ownership, and control... a.k.a., who's in charge? If we could get money from somewhere (an investor, donors, a crowdfunding campaign), how would that fit into how things would proceed?

I like Morgan Spurlock's approach of finding brand sponsors to fund the production of his documentary about product placement in films. He got a lot of rejections, since he wanted to maintain full creative control over the film, but eventually made it happen.

Here's the TED talk where he explained how he did it... one of my favorite talks:



Watch on YouTube

A bit different than what we're doing, but there's a LOT of money spent on education in its various forms by companies, governments, and individuals... and a lot of people aren't happy with the state of education... and a lot of people know that learning is undergoing major transformations as everyone has access to all this information and interactions that used to be (supposedly) hidden within places called schools and colleges.

[xcriteria]

Regarding animation vs. live-action, I think the way to do it is to create a mix of content as part of one overall storyworld... where the production itself is part of the story, including this right here.

Check out this 4-minute clip from the Future of Storytelling course I have linked in my signature.

(Also see Real Life Writes the Plot on TV Tropes and explore the linked pages there for some more on the line between real life, storytelling, and the process of production.)

[xcriteria]

(12-15-2013 01:45 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  took me just over 15 hours to render. And that's just one frame. One ratherbasic frame (albeit, in 1080p). Imagine a scene filled with a crap load of characters and buildings. And consider that there is basically a required minimum of 24 frames per second.

Yeah... Rendering isn't fun when you aren't Pixar. Unless we intended to use the services of a render farm. But those are really expensive.

Yeah, that's where having a budget is useful, and using animation for specific sequences within a larger live action/text/image-based work has value.

Did you also make this one? How long did that take to build... and what would it take to produce, say, a 30-second film with multiple characters interacting?

Hidden stuff:

[Chanku]

Well I'd estimate a few minutes to an hour, depending on how many objects are in the scene...

[Gwedin]

LOL. Nice find. (EDIT: Bah, I didn't think I posted that on these forums, hence my initial "LOL".) Yehp, that's my trademark character, Max (I ought to work on him one of these days). IDK how long it took to model everything as I made a lot of the objects in that scene individually. I know for a fact I spent about a month working on Max before I even had him looking somewhat decent (I'm a lot better at character modelling now, thank God).

It depends. Honestly I made 3D animation sound a lot more time-consuming than it actually is in my post. We could cut out easily a week of modelling/rigging/texturing by acquiring characters from a website (I recommend Blendswap.com as, if we were to do it in 3D, we'd be using Blender presumably). We'd just be required to find models that allow us to use them commercially as long as we credit the author in the credits, and, IIRC, most people on Blendswap use this licence.

The actual scene is rather easy to make... Like buildings and furniture and whatnot. And, again, these assets could be acquired from Blendswap.

I presume by "interact" you mean conversations. In other words, lip syncing. The only field I don't have any experience in so I can't comment as to how long it'd take.

As for rendering. 30 seconds is like *does some math* (fuck, that actually took me ages) 720 frames... I have a server in my room that I don't use (HP Proliant ML350 G3) that we could use for rendering purposes, if we can't find any other rendering alternative. And the render time will vary a lot, depending on which render engine we use. Of course, the more realistic one takes longer. I can't give a fair estimate on how long it'd take.

Sadly I physically won't be able to do any animating because my computer sucks (HP Mini 110, blah) but if we are to use this approach I'd be willing to help in other ways.

But. Before we even CONSIDER this, I suggest we write a storyboard.

[Trar]

Maybe we could use a range of animations. I'm thinking a primarily live-action series with snippets of animated material. Flash works for Wayside School and, yes, Friendship is Magic, and I think it could work for us. Also input from the makers of the series and other real-life stories as extra content could enhance the series.

I'm thinking we could set up a front or trust for financial/ownership concerns. Corporate or group funding could be useful but we need to pick the right source. While I'm at it, Supersize Me had its own host of problems (relating to the film, not its funding). But that's for another post

[Subb]

Bumping because we need to talk about this. I have nothing to add execpt START DISCUSSING.

[xcriteria]

Yeah, I think the time is here to begin a transmedia series about the various things that are happening in the world of transforming education.

Some of us have talked about this in the chat.

It probably makes sense to start a new thread, but this one has some elements to think about. What I have in mind is primarily documentary/reality/journalistic in nature, but within/alongside that reality-based series, we can feature fictional works. Some Alternate Reality Game elements could be included as well.

(VICE is one model to keep in mind.)

I posted some ideas for this series, including printing a physical book+journal with some highlights from here and a few other places, over on G+. (That thread also links back to here.)

[xcriteria]

(12-16-2013 08:11 AM)Gwedin Wrote:  Sadly I physically won't be able to do any animating because my computer sucks (HP Mini 110, blah) but if we are to use this approach I'd be willing to help in other ways.

But. Before we even CONSIDER this, I suggest we write a storyboard.

What about something like http://goanimate.com/ for animation?

Yes, a storyboard is something to make. So is a script, for that matter... at least scripts for interviews and so on that can serve as input for the documentary/reality portions of things.

(12-16-2013 03:26 PM)Trar Wrote:  Maybe we could use a range of animations. I'm thinking a primarily live-action series with snippets of animated material. Flash works for Wayside School and, yes, Friendship is Magic, and I think it could work for us. Also input from the makers of the series and other real-life stories as extra content could enhance the series.

Yes, exactly... including behind-the-scenes/making-of elements.

Last night on a hangout, some of us also discussed having several named sub-series, like one I've informally started relating to conflict resolution. I can imagine another that briefly covers updates/recaps from School Survival, maybe with some other items.

(12-16-2013 03:26 PM)Trar Wrote:  I'm thinking we could set up a front or trust for financial/ownership concerns. Corporate or group funding could be useful but we need to pick the right source. While I'm at it, Supersize Me had its own host of problems (relating to the film, not its funding). But that's for another post

It's definitely worth being careful about what funding we take. This is where a sub-series (or even spinoff ones) of some sort could be useful, that could take different points of view, while at least the main series documents funding sources and influencers in education.

One big question is how "we" is defined. It'd be simpler in many ways to have a single (or a small number) of people making the decisions, at least on each sub-series. Too many people trying to run a creative production can lead to all kinds of standstills.

A similar question can be asked regarding the movement to create learner-centric schools. One idea that's been bumped around is a sort of consortium of independently-run schools (or networks of schools), which would maintain some overall guidelines, and things like rights for participants in member schools. But, the schools (or specific networks of them) would be independently owned and operated.

Adding a documentary/reality/journalistic element to all that is a big part of what I envision for this series idea.

Thoughts on that?

[Ky]

(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  What about something like http://goanimate.com/ for animation?

(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  http://goanimate.com/ for animation?

(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  goanimate

*jumps out the window*

Yeah, I've heard it's at least easy to use, but GA puts their watermark on everything, and is generally despised by people who actually know how animation works. I've not heard good things about it.

[xcriteria]

(05-11-2014 12:46 AM)DoA Wrote:  *jumps out the window*

Yeah, I've heard it's at least easy to use, but GA puts their watermark on everything, and is generally despised by people who actually know how animation works. I've not heard good things about it.

Lol, that's extreme!

They have a pricing plan where there's no watermark.

However cost is a downside.

On the other hand, professional animation takes a lot of work, computing power, and skill.

There's the question of what we can feasibly do. I mean, the world is saturated with information, tools, and experiences, and yet so many gaps remain. What will it take for enough people to agree on a set of approaches, and put in the effort/risk/time to move this plot forward?

Another option is sequences of static frames with voiceover.

And of course, live video, Prezis, web pages, text, G+, hangouts, and all that.

The question is just how to start making something that can be adapted into a "ready for the world" state of one sort or another. (As in, promotion-worthy, share-worthy, tell people-worthy.)

[James Comey]

Thanks for the bump, xcriteria.

This seems like a project that is possible in the summer. I should have a lot of free time. I think Mark Poole was suggesting something about remote control. I've never remote controlled a computer, though I am familiar with some of the software.

[KFC Nyan Cat]

(05-11-2014 12:46 AM)DoA Wrote:  

(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  What about something like http://goanimate.com/ for animation?

(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  http://goanimate.com/ for animation?

(05-10-2014 09:38 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  goanimate

*jumps out the window*

Yeah, I've heard it's at least easy to use, but GA puts their watermark on everything, and is generally despised by people who actually know how animation works. I've not heard good things about it.

Yeah. It'd just get buried by stuff like this due to it's lack of unique animation:


Watch on YouTube

PLEASE NO DERAILING

[Trar]

GoAnimate is only worth anything because of the stupid and weird cartoons the demented fandom makes with it. It's true art, but we're not here to just make art.

Considering where we are and what we have, I'm seriously doubting we can make any sort of animated cartoon that will make waves. If we're going to do that, we need a way to make a decent product, which will require money and/or expertise, which will require publicity. Which we would be better off acquiring via written material, possibly augmented with Hangout clips. Possibly. Still on the fence here. If we could get a good camera and cameraman to film Justin and his efforts, though, I'd support that.

EDIT: That video is gold, Nyan. Literally 60 percent of the video is Caillou's parents chewing him out in typical GoAnimate grounded video fashion (astoundingly shitty special effect play, inhuman facsimile of screaming that lasts for 15 seconds, you are grounded for several quadrillion years and I will painstakingly narrate the exact number to you) because he used magic/had enough engineering and design skill to transform a fancy restaurant into a Chuck E. Cheeses.

EDIT EDIT: This fucking thing has more than 17k views? And that's on the LOW end of the scale when compared to the related videos?

[Superkamiguru]

(12-09-2013 04:26 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  A lot of it does sound like whitewashed propaganda. Barely any of it sounds useful when actually surviving prison.

I wonder if in the near future there will be a gritty reboot of it, but instead of it being satire, it's a serious drama about being in an authoritarian hellhole of a school, with useful survival tips. That'd cause a shitload of controversy.

Why os peplde so braimwash?