Need advice again.

[brigs1]

After the crisis that was the fow guo li jie I have decided to talk to my dad about dropping out and getting classes to study for the CHSPE and GED. Problem is, he refuses to consider it and the only alternatives he gave me are 1.Immediately get a job 2. Go to Taiwan to get drafted into the reserve army
I would go for option 1 but who would want to hire a 15 year old soon to be drop out? I have also talked to him about online schools but he claims that everything is open book and I wont learn anything. Any advice on how I could convince him to change his mind or ways to earn money for a minor?

[Username]

Wait until you're old enough to drop out without parental consent then do it and get your GED. If your dad doesn't like it then tough shit for him.


As far as jobs go, wait till you turn 16. Most places IME won't hire you unless you're at least 16. Get reliable transportation too. Then look around at local restaurants and ask if they have any openings, you might get lucky and be a busboy or dishwasher.

[brainiac3397]

Id go with option 2, but then again it probably has to do with my very strong pull towards military coupled with neutral support from one parent(who probably doesnt prefer it but respects my decision) and total complete vehemnt antisupport from another parent(who thinks anything "active and aggresive and life threatening" is evil and immoral).

And agreed that most places have a preferred age requirement, unless its a job gotten from a relative or friend and you get paid "under the table"(cash,not paycheck).

Suggest a plan of getting GED and starting college early(through community college). Still get an education and have option of moving up to 4 year college(all at a younger age)

[brigs1]

(10-03-2013 02:48 PM)Sharpie Wrote:  Wait until you're old enough to drop out without parental consent then do it and get your GED. If your dad doesn't like it then tough shit for him.


As far as jobs go, wait till you turn 16. Most places IME won't hire you unless you're at least 16. Get reliable transportation too. Then look around at local restaurants and ask if they have any openings, you might get lucky and be a busboy or dishwasher.

The minimum drop out age is 18, by then I might as well stay in school and tough out the remaining time.

[Subb]

I agree with Brainiac. Wait until you're 16, if jobs work the same where you live.

How do you feel about joining the military?

[brigs1]

(10-03-2013 03:20 PM)SubCulture Wrote:  I agree with Brainiac. Wait until you're 16, if jobs work the same where you live.

How do you feel about joining the military?

I feel pretty neutral about the military, the problem is during and after my draft. I have long since forgotten Mandarin which may interfere with my training when the drill sergeants scream orders at me. The other problem is that after the draft ends I'll probably have to live with my mothers side of the family for a while , which I have a preetty strained relationship with.

Forgot to mention my below average eyesight which my dad refuses to get me checked out for atm.
.....
On second thought I think I value my personal freedoms too much.

[xcriteria]

"who would want to hire a 15 year old soon to be drop out?"

To jump over my typical wall-of-text-and-links...

What are your skills / interests / possible life-paths?

And... how much money do you need to make? It's possible to find work... lots of people and companies are looking for various kinds of help. But, you have to figure out what you can provide.

Also, if you found a way to find credible people to certify that you were actually learning online... and you were developing a portfolio that showed you really were learning.... would your dad go for that?

[brigs1]

(10-03-2013 04:00 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  "who would want to hire a 15 year old soon to be drop out?"

To jump over my typical wall-of-text-and-links...

What are your skills / interests / possible life-paths?

And... how much money do you need to make? It's possible to find work... lots of people and companies are looking for various kinds of help. But, you have to figure out what you can provide.

Also, if you found a way to find credible people to certify that you were actually learning online... and you were developing a portfolio that showed you really were learning.... would your dad go for that?

I have enjoyed debating but I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with part time jobs. I have interests in science,history,and politics. As for life-paths... maybe Marine Biologist, Archaeologist, something in History(I enjoy all history so I'm unsure which path to take in that section).
I have saved up a rather large sum of money from penny pinching and scrounging when I was younger (around $7k). And I only need enough money to eat and pay for rent,electricity,internet.

I have NOT found credible people to certify that I was learning online, and I have little confidence that my dad would go for it even if I did. He dislikes and distrusts this new thing called "Internet Classrooms" and believes only in the traditional methods of learning. I have tried several times to get him to take a look at the sites and the closest I ever got was having him take a cursory glance and watch him scoff at it. He just won't give it a chance.

[SoulRiser]

So it would be pretty confusing to him if you got an online writing job, then?

These places pay people to write articles:
http://thecontentauthority.com/
http://www.textbroker.com/

It would be more of a part-time job I suppose. But your writing skills seem a lot better than the average people they hire.

That's all I know. Good luck.

[xcriteria]

(10-03-2013 04:10 PM)brigs1 Wrote:  I have NOT found credible people to certify that I was learning online, and I have little confidence that my dad would go for it even if I did. He dislikes and distrusts this new thing called "Internet Classrooms" and believes only in the traditional methods of learning. I have tried several times to get him to take a look at the sites and the closest I ever got was having him take a cursory glance and watch him scoff at it. He just won't give it a chance.

I'm working on finding a solution to this problem of credibility. I can try to help you. I've collected a lot of examples (videos, articles, discussions) of people who look at learning in a different way. If you have the time and patience to become familiar with some of those, it could help you make your case, and also better strategize how you'll go about learning.

I'm actually building a course right now about all this... using a combination of Udemy and G+. I'm trying to figure out how to structure it, and develop interesting activities and discussion prompts. Part of my goal is to build a "course" that can pull in parents and students and help them resolve conflicts like this, by helping inform everyone about what's wrong with school, the other options out there, and various paths to jobs and careers.

Maybe your debating skills would be useful for that. Actually, history provides a good lens through which to understand why education works the way it does now... and why, in a networked, interconnected world, it needs to adapt.

And, it is adapting. There are so many free and cheap learning resources online, but the credibility part is a major bottleneck. Several startups are developing solutions... including Accredible and Degreed. Mozilla Open Badges is another effort along these lines.

But ultimately, a lot of credibility comes from people who can vouch for each other.

What matters to your dad, that you get paid, or that you're doing something that provides a path to credibility? For example, what about people from universities? I'm actually working with some now to develop solutions for people who don't fit in mainstream education, but I need to do a better job of bridging School Survival stories (and people) with those other conversations.

Personally, I dropped out of high school, and I've dropped out of college several times... but I've learned a lot online and in other ways. For example, I learned web skills, but coding really is not for me. Addressing this education disconnect has been my main focus for a while. So many people have similar problems with not learning well in school, including college, while the world explodes with web-based learning, and even alternative learning communities.

Are you in school now? What kind of timeframe do you have to work with?

[brigs1]

(10-04-2013 12:19 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  

(10-03-2013 04:10 PM)brigs1 Wrote:  I have NOT found credible people to certify that I was learning online, and I have little confidence that my dad would go for it even if I did. He dislikes and distrusts this new thing called "Internet Classrooms" and believes only in the traditional methods of learning. I have tried several times to get him to take a look at the sites and the closest I ever got was having him take a cursory glance and watch him scoff at it. He just won't give it a chance.

I'm working on finding a solution to this problem of credibility. I can try to help you. I've collected a lot of examples (videos, articles, discussions) of people who look at learning in a different way. If you have the time and patience to become familiar with some of those, it could help you make your case, and also better strategize how you'll go about learning.

I'm actually building a course right now about all this... using a combination of Udemy and G+. I'm trying to figure out how to structure it, and develop interesting activities and discussion prompts. Part of my goal is to build a "course" that can pull in parents and students and help them resolve conflicts like this, by helping inform everyone about what's wrong with school, the other options out there, and various paths to jobs and careers.

Maybe your debating skills would be useful for that. Actually, history provides a good lens through which to understand why education works the way it does now... and why, in a networked, interconnected world, it needs to adapt.

And, it is adapting. There are so many free and cheap learning resources online, but the credibility part is a major bottleneck. Several startups are developing solutions... including Accredible and Degreed. Mozilla Open Badges is another effort along these lines.

But ultimately, a lot of credibility comes from people who can vouch for each other.

What matters to your dad, that you get paid, or that you're doing something that provides a path to credibility? For example, what about people from universities? I'm actually working with some now to develop solutions for people who don't fit in mainstream education, but I need to do a better job of bridging School Survival stories (and people) with those other conversations.

Personally, I dropped out of high school, and I've dropped out of college several times... but I've learned a lot online and in other ways. For example, I learned web skills, but coding really is not for me. Addressing this education disconnect has been my main focus for a while. So many people have similar problems with not learning well in school, including college, while the world explodes with web-based learning, and even alternative learning communities.

Are you in school now? What kind of timeframe do you have to work with?

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I'm in school right now and I wont be able to quit by myself until I'm 18 so my only hope is the CHSPE and GED.The requirements for the CHSPE is 1.I finish 10th grade or 2.I'm 16 unfortunately I'm far away from being 16 so I'm stuck at school for now. I'm living at California which is the only reason I'm taking the CHSPE, so -8:00 Pacific time US and Canada

I'm unsure if even Uni students will convince him since I know from experience that he's VERY stubborn in his beliefs, but at this point I'm willing to give almost everything a try.

[xcriteria]

(This is long, but I think it's relevant... here's some more of my story, and a transition into introducing some of the people I've found, and what you might do.)

I wanted to quit school when I was 14, but my parents wouldn't go for it. I felt like I wasn't learning much of anything, and not much relevant to life. When I was 16, I discovered the GED, and along with a plan to drop out and enroll in college, that was enough to convince my parents.

For some people, college is a much better fit for them than high school. But for me, I learned some things, but I felt like it was missing a lot. I ended up transferring colleges, finding it a complete waste of time... and then I decided just go find work.

I was fortunate to find a job at a web startup, and I learned a lot there, including how much was possible when the right group of people get together with a good idea. I made good money, I was independent, and overall having a completely open-ended life. But, I realized I didn't like programming very much, and decided to figure out how to change education.

That was many years ago, but that goal has stayed with me. I returned to college a few times, but I always found it lacking. In 2005, the last time I was in college, I started posting on here a fair amount, and I dropped out again. But, finding a way to build an alternative seemed incredibly difficult.

Over the past few years, things have changed a lot. Universities have started opening up their content, massively-open online courses, or MOOCs became incredibly popular, and several professors started companies like Coursera and Udacity. Quite a few other education companies are doing well. More and more traditional educators are realizing what's wrong with the "factory model" schools that were built to prepare people for factory life.

But still, the stories on School Survival repeat. Some people find alternatives, but not enough. Meanwhile, over the past year, in particular, I've found a number of people in and out of education who see what's wrong with traditional school and credentialing, and who want to address the problem those who find their way here have, as well as many others who don't find a community of support like this.

I'm not thinking of Uni students, so much as people who work in higher education, high schools, and who are parents themselves. I know of many of these people only through talks and articles... but I've started to have active conversations with a number of others. And, we're hoping to raise broader awareness of what's wrong with school, and help people find better paths forward, for learning as well as work.

As for your dad, one thing I'd suggest is think about, and find out, what he really wants. It's very common for parents to be afraid of the unknown, but the world is a different place than it was even a decade ago. It's more interconnected, there are more opportunities and examples for people to pursue their passions, and yet at the same time, so many people can't even find work at all.

Is your dad thinking primarily about your well-being? Is he thinking in terms of following tradition as being important?

It sounds like he does care about learning, so maybe finding ways to establish what real learning is would help. In general, I suggest thinking of this as a project. You might have to wait until you're 16, but you can do a lot in the meantime. And, maybe some other solution can be found before then, however unlikely.

My own goal is basically to figure out how to solve problems like yours for a lot of people. I think the credibility is now here, unlike even a few years ago, to make a strong case for why it's worth doing learning and life-navigation differently.

Some talks

I can link a bunch of talks that you might find interesting or relevant... but try these two:

Nikhil is the author of One Size Does Not Fit All: A Student's Assessment of School

NIKHIL GOYAL: "Why Learning Should Be Messy" | #PSP2012
https://vimeo.com/54066193

Yong Zhao is an expert on education and globalization, and here he talks from a parent's perspective, and puts education in a global context.

YONG ZHAO: "Redefining 'Excellence'" | #PSP2012
https://vimeo.com/54027761

Might either of these help your case... or at least give you more perspective on what others are talking about?

And... would you (or anyone else here) want to spend more time digging into, and participating in, some of these ongoing conversations?

(It seems that most of the walls of content I post around here end up as dead ends... but the problems and stories continue... there's gotta be a way to do something about it.)

[brigs1]

(10-04-2013 03:12 PM)xcriteria Wrote:  (This is long, but I think it's relevant... here's some more of my story, and a transition into introducing some of the people I've found, and what you might do.)

I wanted to quit school when I was 14, but my parents wouldn't go for it. I felt like I wasn't learning much of anything, and not much relevant to life. When I was 16, I discovered the GED, and along with a plan to drop out and enroll in college, that was enough to convince my parents.

For some people, college is a much better fit for them than high school. But for me, I learned some things, but I felt like it was missing a lot. I ended up transferring colleges, finding it a complete waste of time... and then I decided just go find work.

I was fortunate to find a job at a web startup, and I learned a lot there, including how much was possible when the right group of people get together with a good idea. I made good money, I was independent, and overall having a completely open-ended life. But, I realized I didn't like programming very much, and decided to figure out how to change education.

That was many years ago, but that goal has stayed with me. I returned to college a few times, but I always found it lacking. In 2005, the last time I was in college, I started posting on here a fair amount, and I dropped out again. But, finding a way to build an alternative seemed incredibly difficult.

Over the past few years, things have changed a lot. Universities have started opening up their content, massively-open online courses, or MOOCs became incredibly popular, and several professors started companies like Coursera and Udacity. Quite a few other education companies are doing well. More and more traditional educators are realizing what's wrong with the "factory model" schools that were built to prepare people for factory life.

But still, the stories on School Survival repeat. Some people find alternatives, but not enough. Meanwhile, over the past year, in particular, I've found a number of people in and out of education who see what's wrong with traditional school and credentialing, and who want to address the problem those who find their way here have, as well as many others who don't find a community of support like this.

I'm not thinking of Uni students, so much as people who work in higher education, high schools, and who are parents themselves. I know of many of these people only through talks and articles... but I've started to have active conversations with a number of others. And, we're hoping to raise broader awareness of what's wrong with school, and help people find better paths forward, for learning as well as work.

As for your dad, one thing I'd suggest is think about, and find out, what he really wants. It's very common for parents to be afraid of the unknown, but the world is a different place than it was even a decade ago. It's more interconnected, there are more opportunities and examples for people to pursue their passions, and yet at the same time, so many people can't even find work at all.

Is your dad thinking primarily about your well-being? Is he thinking in terms of following tradition as being important?

It sounds like he does care about learning, so maybe finding ways to establish what real learning is would help. In general, I suggest thinking of this as a project. You might have to wait until you're 16, but you can do a lot in the meantime. And, maybe some other solution can be found before then, however unlikely.

My own goal is basically to figure out how to solve problems like yours for a lot of people. I think the credibility is now here, unlike even a few years ago, to make a strong case for why it's worth doing learning and life-navigation differently.

Some talks

I can link a bunch of talks that you might find interesting or relevant... but try these two:

Nikhil is the author of One Size Does Not Fit All: A Student's Assessment of School

NIKHIL GOYAL: "Why Learning Should Be Messy" | #PSP2012
https://vimeo.com/54066193

Yong Zhao is an expert on education and globalization, and here he talks from a parent's perspective, and puts education in a global context.

YONG ZHAO: "Redefining 'Excellence'" | #PSP2012
https://vimeo.com/54027761

Might either of these help your case... or at least give you more perspective on what others are talking about?

And... would you (or anyone else here) want to spend more time digging into, and participating in, some of these ongoing conversations?

(It seems that most of the walls of content I post around here end up as dead ends... but the problems and stories continue... there's gotta be a way to do something about it.)

Thanks for the information! It's comforting to have someone I can talk to who has been through a similar experience. I'll speak to him again about this subject tomorrow.

I'll try to contribute to other ongoing discussions.

[xcriteria]

Any news on this front? Is there anything we can do to help?

If you have any free time, and you happen to have watched those videos, I'm curious what you thought of them. Were they useful or inspiring... or might there be a better way to present some of these ideas?