Youth that betray youth rights and the anti-school movement when they get older.

[UnschoolShqiponjë]

I have been posting here for over two years, I have been visiting the site for like six though.

A common issue I notice with the youth rights movement and the anti-school movement is that often youth are very devoted while they suffer the oppression actively. However many often adapt the views of general society once they are free from this oppression.

They begin to parrot the dis-proven BS that we have to combat daily.

This is a sign of a generally selfish person. When the issues affected them they wanted them to stop, when they stopped affecting them they adapted the other point of view so they can get a taste of the power. So they no longer have to go against the grain.

it is one thing to abandon the movement yet still support it, nothing wrong with that. It is another thing entirely to betray it.

It's like a black who was freed of slavery and then decided to own slaves himself. He once fought for freedom, when he got it he adapted the "I am better" mentality and perpetuates the wrongdoing he once fought.

I just post this to remind you that it will be very easy and convenient for you to adapt the common viewpoint once you enter "adulthood". Be mindful of this. Remember your parents are human.. they are right and wrong. Most things they truly do because they want what is best for you. However they are misguided. Usually you grow up fine not because their disrespect and unnecessary punishments "worked" but because regardless of them their love for you and the times they treated you with respect prevailed. Same with teachers and most other adults.

Luckily for me I adopted the youth rights and anti-school view as an "adult" when I was like 21. As a youth I supported and rationalized the bullshit and abuse I was forced to suffer.

There is a reason kids will listen to me and no one else a lot of the time.

[Night]

Now I know this is probably in response to my position on the 1D girl

But I'd like to clear things up. I have not betrayed the movement. I've just managed to see the position from both my eyes as the "oppressed teen" and specifically my parents' viewpoint as the "parents of a 'delinquent'"

When it comes down to it. Our parents just think they're doing what's best for us. They don't quite understand. They claim to, because well, they were our age once too. But a lot of the time they don't stop to consider what would really work.

I know I had a pretty unpopular opinion in regards to the 1D situation. But I don't think people are thinking about it quite the way I did.

On one hand I agree wholeheartedly with the position of everyone here. On the other hand,I understand the viewpoint of the parents.

In the end, the situation should be seen as a lesson for both mother and daughter.

Neither mother, nor daughter, have respect for eachother.

Respect is earned, not given. And oftentimes parents are the one who think they're entitled to the bulk of the respect. While never respecting their child's wishes.

First, I personally believe that the best path to youth rights is to first show our parent's and teachers that we respect them. This is kind of a way of psychology i think. If we respect them and show them that we are mature and that we can be trusted, only then will they believe we're mature and deserving of trust.
And then this is when we catch them. Once we've obtained that trust and respect they're more open to listening to our side.

Once we show them that we understand they're coming from a good place, just the way they're handling it isn't exactly the best, we can help show them what we need. Help them understand us.

But we have to meet them halfway.

I have a really good friend. She had a child young, and she's going to be such a great mother. Her mother is what I would consider the perfect parent. And it's shown in my friend's personality and level of maturity that she had a really good mother. A really great mother that not only respected her daughter's decisions and respected teenage ideologies and life, but was completely deserving of her daughter's respect as well.


It all comes down to communication. We as youth have rights.
We have the right to have our wishes respected and considered. As well as the right to be shown the path to maturity and adulthood.
However,our parents also have rights.
They have the right as well to have their wishes respected and considered.

To obtain our right to have our wishes respected we need to talk to our parent's. Tell them what we need and what we want. It helps if they're in a good mood. If you try to do it while their angry and feeling stubborn about what they believe is right and what's wrong you won't get no where. Boundaries. Boundaries are also a big part about obtaining respect for our wishes. We must also respect their's.

In the end, your parents will be proud that you felt you could trust them enough to come to them with your problems.

As for the parent's end. Instead of just punishing our children and getting angry with them we need to tell them why we punished them. Why We feel the way we do. Parents seem to expect that simply punishing a child will help them learn. But it doesn't!

In the end, we gain a deeper understanding of where our parents stand. And we can tell them how we feel about it.

It all comes down to communication and a deeper understanding of both parent and child's wishes. And making compromises so that both wishes are met.

For example. Most parents would prefer their children not go out and party and drink with their friends. We can all agree on that. But us as teens feel we're mature enough to make the right decisions and not get into trouble and get into a dangerous situation.
Most parents would agree that the solution is to tell their child "no drinking." And then to punish them for doing what we all know the teen was probably going to do anyways. I say probably because because I'm a prime example of a teen that chooses not to drink at all. But most teens would.
Now here's the compromise. And this is something my friend's mother did.
Allow the drinking, in their house while they're there.
This way, they can supervise the drinking and both mother gain trust for eachother. Mother will gain trust that her daughter will make the right decisions, not drink too much, and can cut people off if need be. The mother also meets her daughter's friends, knows who her daughter is hanging out with and can probably tell who's going to end up being a bad person for her child to hang out with. Mother can tell daughter who she thinks she shouldn't be hanging out with, but she shouldn't forbid daughter from seeing that person. The daughter will have to learn for herself if her mother was right or wrong. my friend's mother does this, and she has said that she's usually right about who the bad seeds are.
After this, the mother will see that she can trust her daughter to make the right decisions, and be able to know exactly who her daughter is hanging out with and if they're also to be trusted. Daughter then is able to trust that her mother just wants what's best for her and understands her wants.

In the end, the mother will obtain a level of trust that will cause her to allow her daughter to go drink with friends while not under her supervision and still make good choices that won't pout her in danger or anything. And the Daughter trusts that if she does find herself in a bad situation she can tell her mom and they can work on a solution together.

I know this may be very long for most of you. And perhaps you don't agree with me. But I've seen this stuff work.
the key is in obtaining trust and respect between parent and child.
trust = freedom.

I've not betrayed the youth rights movement. I've just thought about it. And seen that we're approaching it from a one minded view.
A view where we feel entitled to what we want. We are not entitled, we do however deserve it. Sometime we don't show that we deserve it. Sometimes we do, but our parents don't understand.
Our parents are not entitled to our respect. But they deserve our respect. They gave birth to us, they love us unconditionally. They really just want the best for us. Sometimes they don't know how to do that, it's our job to show them. Just as it their job to show us how to be responsible young adults.

[LightAbyssion]

Kids get beat as children, then rationalize it and say "it helped them become a better adult." Or, "suffering in school helped prepare me for the real world." It's all fucking bullshit. People just don't want to admit their childhoods, and other childhoods, are messed up. Easier to go along with the crowd and get pats on the head for being 'normal.' I'm guessing the rush feels real good, when the victim gets the chance to play the bully.

Anyway, the quote in my sig really fits this topic.

[LightAbyssion]

Oh, and I just read the One Direction thread. lol

I am usually skeptical whenever someone boasts about how they've "grown up." That's also bullshit most of the time. It just means they adopted "grown up" views.

(09-25-2013 04:06 PM)Night Wrote:  Respect is earned, not given. And oftentimes parents are the one who think they're entitled to the bulk of the respect. While never respecting their child's wishes.

First, I personally believe that the best path to youth rights is to first show our parent's and teachers that we respect them. This is kind of a way of psychology i think. If we respect them and show them that we are mature and that we can be trusted, only then will they believe we're mature and deserving of trust.

There is something weird here. Hurm...

Also, I stop viewing the forums for a few weeks and Night goes from ex-boyfriend problems to lecturing about parenting. I've been lurking around since 2009 so night.artist, of all people, spewing rhetoric is fantastic. Funny site this is...

[brainiac3397]

Nothing wrong with the site. Its the people that are funny...and not in a humorous way...

[Asder Miller The Second]

Wait till my parents see me omg, my parents try and change me 24/7 ALL THE TIME, i still havent

Our parents little adventure to mold us into the kid THEY wanted is wrong, we will be who we ARE,its almost completely programmed, we all turn out a certain way, while there are benefactors, its usually very obvious, as a little kid i would always be very smart assy at like 4-5 years old, and my first word(sentence to) was "leave me alone"

[UnschoolShqiponjë]

Not so much you Night though I guess you could be included if you want, more so other people from other places and including a personal relationship. Guy just went 180 degrees on his views like overnight. It was a combination of someone at another forum, someone in real life, and the way you responded to the 1D punishment. Though in this thread you have a much more unbiased outlook that I can agree with a good portion of it.

[SoulRiser]

This is now a sticky.

I've gotten sidetracked by life and other things, so I'm not actively doing much, but I'm not abandoning anything. This is important, and even if all I do is keep the forum going, then that's better than nothing.

I've learned a lot about psychology as well... and I can even sort of vaguely understand the viewpoints of the people who treat young people like shit (hint: they're hurting inside and don't know how to manage the pain). That doesn't justify what they do, but basically, they need help too... so it's complicated.

[brainiac3397]

I plan on playing videogames and watching porn as a 90 year old man. So no worries. As long as I dont suffer dementia, my ideas will remain similar.

[magikarp]

Eh, things can be complicated. I think ageism is a thing, kind of, but I also think that like, 99% of my problems were actually about being a 15 year-old dyke in the middle of nowhere and also having kind of asynchronous development (like, a lot of intellectual intensity with all the emotional maturity of the average 10 year-old) which no one though was a problem because I was a good student. And I think that like, conceptualizing all that as being caused by adults telling me what to do was neither very true nor very useful.

At least as far as my own life goes, I don't wish there was a vastly different power balance, I just wish the adults in my life did a better job?

[brainiac3397]

I'm more worried about suffering from dementia...

Funny how when being a "good student" seems to make you void of any possible problems, while being a "bad student" seems to give you a variety of mental issues.

[James Comey]

I believe this is where cognitive dissonance comes into play.

A lot of students who turn into adults may have had good memories of the schooling system. They may have made great friends with teachers and had some really good memories of the schooling system, and those good parts often overshadow the negative. I think it also might be out of pure patriotism (though only to an extent), to say that the United States has the world's greatest education system. Those that support the schooling system might also say "well, they could be in sweatshops" yet they blindly don't see the fact that the children that go there are forced against their will for quite long hours without pay. Sometimes, people just stop caring, and start focusing on what's happening around them directly rather than issues they'd consider irrelevant at that point in their lives.

Will I ever betray the youth movement? Hell no. This ageist society likes to see youth as nothing more than growing up and learning lessons, which it is, but there are many important experiences and youth is not meaningless. Society sees ideas developed at youth simply immaturity, and says "they'll grow out of it". I always have said I'll never get married, and my sister says "when you get older, you'll want to. I know I've been through the same", but I'm 16, have never dated anyone, and at this point I'm quite convinced I'll never get married.

[RashedMohamed]

School Rules are important for all students to follow as a guideline. Also, rules aids in showing respect to people in authority and other people as well as learning acceptable behavioral.

[no]

^ Fuck you spambot.

[brainiac3397]

(09-29-2013 11:05 PM)planetfall666 Wrote:  ^ Fuck you spambot.

Hey. It's our first arab spambot!(or arabic-named)

They're getting trickier...

[Lime]

You'll see some people saying something to the effect of, "Stop whining about school, I used to be there too and I know what it's like. It helped me."

Oh, sure, you knew what it's like-but either you completely forgot or you just don't care anymore. It's so much easier to remain apathetic when you're not in the situation, isn't it? No, you just hopped in right with the rest of them in their little bandwagon. Of course youth don't deserve full rights, and they were right all along: You were a little shit back then! No difficulty in admitting that; you've "changed". And you know what, you have.

Why, exactly, is oppression of youth so widespread? What compels people to be so condescending, dismissive, and purposefully ignorant? What benefit do they gain from restricting human rights, rather than choosing to be humane, to live in harmony?

[FreelancePoliceman]

(10-01-2013 12:18 PM)Lime Wrote:  You'll see some people saying something to the effect of, "Stop whining about school, I used to be there too and I know what it's like. It helped me."

Oh, sure, you knew what it's like-but either you completely forgot or you just don't care anymore. It's so much easier to remain apathetic when you're not in the situation, isn't it? No, you just hopped in right with the rest of them in their little bandwagon. Of course youth don't deserve full rights, and they were right all along: You were a little shit back then! No difficult in admitting that; you've "changed". And you know what, you have.

Why, exactly, is oppression of youth so widespread? What compels people to be so condescending, dismissive, and purposefully ignorant? What benefit do they gain from restricting human rights, rather than choosing to be humane, to live in harmony?

Tell me when you find out.

[Rule_BreakerXVIII]

"First, I personally believe that the best path to youth rights is to first show our parent's and teachers that we respect them. This is kind of a way of psychology i think. If we respect them and show them that we are mature and that we can be trusted, only then will they believe we're mature and deserving of trust.
And then this is when we catch them. Once we've obtained that trust and respect they're more open to listening to our side."


Seriously??? Are you an idiot or is the author right about you? They are never, and i mean NEVER interested in listening to us. You are basically stating that becoming their lap dogs will help us or the movement.
Point 2 being that they think whatever they are doing is right. And that we are "wrong" "misguided" or even some other outlandish ideas. Their view of right is what we are fighting against, and most of the time they won't even listen to those who they think are wrong. So how do you propose we meet them halfway?? Because no matter what i do or say, none of them are going to let me live on my own terms.


"In the end, your parents will be proud that you felt you could trust them enough to come to them with your problems.

As for the parent's end. Instead of just punishing our children and getting angry with them we need to tell them why we punished them. Why We feel the way we do. Parents seem to expect that simply punishing a child will help them learn. But it doesn't!

In the end, we gain a deeper understanding of where our parents stand. And we can tell them how we feel about it."

Um,no. There is a fundamental difference of beliefs between me and my parents. It's like i said earlier- they cannot (or maybe will not) differentiate between different and wrong. I find their code of action tedious and useless-we disagree on the smallest stuff,and their attitude that i am wrong no matter what has hurt me deeply. As it is i am unlikely to trust them ever again. They want to turn me into a puppet, not help me.


"They gave birth to us, they love us unconditionally. They really just want the best for us. Sometimes they don't know how to do that, it's our job to show them. Just as it their job to show us how to be responsible young adults."



They gave birth to me? Big favor,that. They love me unconditionally?? Its accompanied with all those 'if only you did this'. Which i never did, and will never do because my life is too valuable to waste being a puppet.

[brainiac3397]

A confusing read without distinguishing quotes you know. Id fix it for ya but Im not on a PC.

[queen of evil !!!!!!!!!!]

adults want to stop school because they are most are forgetting that school, get them their jobs and the education to met the lovers and teach them about sexual safety without school they wouldn't be the people they are now and if they want to stop their own children not have a job or a lover or have a sexually active disease that's on them if they want to stop schools they can go right on ahead

[Gwedin]

(11-17-2013 02:08 PM)sand village girl1226 Wrote:  adults want to stop school because they are most are forgetting that school, get them their jobs and the education to met the lovers and teach them about sexual safety without school they wouldn't be the people they are now and if they want to stop their own children not have a job or a lover or have a sexually active disease that's on them if they want to stop schools they can go right on ahead

Oh goodie! No-one else has ripped your point to shreds yet. Allow me to.

Do you really think that school got Jim that job as a meat chopper? Or Billy that career as a rugby player? School doesn't get you these jobs. It prepares you for the mind-numbing cycle that comes with these jobs. As for the intellectual jobs, you can quite easily teach yourself the stuff needed for these jobs. Also that's what uni is for. You don't need an education to meet a lover. You can meet a lover anywhere. However since we're all forced into school for at least 11 years, it isn't unexpected to form some good relationships in the time. Also, sexual safety. Parents can teach you this.

We don't want to STOP school. We want to change it for the better.

EDIT: Oh and you're right about one thing. Without school we wouldn't be the people we are now. We wouldn't be mindless sheep sucking higher authority's dick.

[GamerGurl]

(11-17-2013 02:31 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 02:08 PM)sand village girl1226 Wrote:  adults want to stop school because they are most are forgetting that school, get them their jobs and the education to met the lovers and teach them about sexual safety without school they wouldn't be the people they are now and if they want to stop their own children not have a job or a lover or have a sexually active disease that's on them if they want to stop schools they can go right on ahead

Oh goodie! No-one else has ripped your point to shreds yet. Allow me to.

Do you really think that school got Jim that job as a meat chopper? Or Billy that career as a rugby player? School doesn't get you these jobs. It prepares you for the mind-numbing cycle that comes with these jobs. As for the intellectual jobs, you can quite easily teach yourself the stuff needed for these jobs. Also that's what uni is for. You don't need an education to meet a lover. You can meet a lover anywhere. However since we're all forced into school for at least 11 years, it isn't unexpected to form some good relationships in the time. Also, sexual safety. Parents can teach you this.

We don't want to STOP school. We want to change it for the better.

EDIT: Oh and you're right about one thing. Without school we wouldn't be the people we are now. We wouldn't be mindless sheep sucking higher authority's dick.

Well I kind of want to defeat it, to be honest.

[Gwedin]

(11-17-2013 02:51 PM)MrJurgens Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 02:31 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 02:08 PM)sand village girl1226 Wrote:  adults want to stop school because they are most are forgetting that school, get them their jobs and the education to met the lovers and teach them about sexual safety without school they wouldn't be the people they are now and if they want to stop their own children not have a job or a lover or have a sexually active disease that's on them if they want to stop schools they can go right on ahead

Oh goodie! No-one else has ripped your point to shreds yet. Allow me to.

Do you really think that school got Jim that job as a meat chopper? Or Billy that career as a rugby player? School doesn't get you these jobs. It prepares you for the mind-numbing cycle that comes with these jobs. As for the intellectual jobs, you can quite easily teach yourself the stuff needed for these jobs. Also that's what uni is for. You don't need an education to meet a lover. You can meet a lover anywhere. However since we're all forced into school for at least 11 years, it isn't unexpected to form some good relationships in the time. Also, sexual safety. Parents can teach you this.

We don't want to STOP school. We want to change it for the better.

EDIT: Oh and you're right about one thing. Without school we wouldn't be the people we are now. We wouldn't be mindless sheep sucking higher authority's dick.

Well I kind of want to defeat it, to be honest.

It'd certainly be the funnest and easiest solution. Perhaps not the most beneficial for society, though.

[GamerGurl]

(11-17-2013 02:55 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 02:51 PM)MrJurgens Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 02:31 PM)Gwedin Wrote:  

(11-17-2013 02:08 PM)sand village girl1226 Wrote:  adults want to stop school because they are most are forgetting that school, get them their jobs and the education to met the lovers and teach them about sexual safety without school they wouldn't be the people they are now and if they want to stop their own children not have a job or a lover or have a sexually active disease that's on them if they want to stop schools they can go right on ahead

Oh goodie! No-one else has ripped your point to shreds yet. Allow me to.

Do you really think that school got Jim that job as a meat chopper? Or Billy that career as a rugby player? School doesn't get you these jobs. It prepares you for the mind-numbing cycle that comes with these jobs. As for the intellectual jobs, you can quite easily teach yourself the stuff needed for these jobs. Also that's what uni is for. You don't need an education to meet a lover. You can meet a lover anywhere. However since we're all forced into school for at least 11 years, it isn't unexpected to form some good relationships in the time. Also, sexual safety. Parents can teach you this.

We don't want to STOP school. We want to change it for the better.

EDIT: Oh and you're right about one thing. Without school we wouldn't be the people we are now. We wouldn't be mindless sheep sucking higher authority's dick.

Well I kind of want to defeat it, to be honest.

It'd certainly be the funnest and easiest solution. Perhaps not the most beneficial for society, though.

I'm just against the compulsory laws, that's all.

[Gwedin]

I'm against several things, but the compulsary part is the main point. Get rid of that and it'll be pretty dandy. However I would still rather see a complete overhaul of public education than merely fix the holes in our current one.

[brainiac3397]

I've learned that I'm quite an individualist. I won't do something if it's insisted as compulsory, yet I'll be happy to do it if I get to choose.