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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.
I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.
I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.
I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.
I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.
Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.
Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.
-SoulRiser
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Quote:In a horrifyingly insensitive and counterintuitive move, murder charges were filed against an Indiana woman who attempted suicide in a late stage of her pregnancy. Bei Bei Shuai ingested rat poison in December, trying to end her life; she was taken to the hospital by friends and got help in time. When her child was born, though, she was first put on life support but then removed when doctors determined that they could not save her. Shuai is now facing feticide charges.
Robin Marty (who you may know from Care2) wrote a great short piece for RHRealityCheck, dissecting the situation. “Was the poisoning really just an attempt at a do it yourself abortion, as the prosecution appears to be claiming?” she asks. If these charges are successful, as she points out, this could easily lead to a slippery slope, where women who experience any kind of harm during pregnancy can be accused of trying to abort (or “murder”) their fetus.
Indiana is poised to pass a “fetal pain” law which would prohibit abortion after 20 weeks, claiming that after that point, the fetus can feel pain. And in 2009, the Indiana legislature passed a bill that imposed harsh penalties on crimes that lead to the death of an unborn child at any stage of development. This law was passed after a bank teller was shot during an attempted robbery and her unborn twins died, so it looks like this is the first application of the feticide bill to a pregnant woman who tried to kill herself.
The issue is that we don’t know why Shuai tried to ingest rat poison – it seems more like she was simply trying to end her life than to willfully kill her fetus. Either way, as Robin points out, the prosecutor is deciding the motive – talk about taking away women’s agency. Let’s hope that Shaui’s attorney is successful in her attempts to get the charges thrown out.
Freedom is never given; it is always taken. So for the fact that you're not a slave, don't thank those in authority. Thank someone with a "bad attitude."
-Kevin Carson
sexual abuse of sheep is baaaaaaaaad
-BaronVonStrangle
School brings us together, but it doesn't bring us together
-Derchin
We lost Vietnam cuz we didn't train our soldiers to quickscope.
-gore goroth
Quote:If these charges are successful, as she points out, this could easily lead to a slippery slope, where women who experience any kind of harm during pregnancy can be accused of trying to abort (or “murder”) their fetus.
Oh my god that is such a strawman. There is no way women would be charged indiscriminately for losing their babies. A woman who is attacked by an abusive lover or is injured in a car accident can not be charged for something that was completely out of her control. Same with women who have spontaneous miscarriages.
The fact is that whether it was this womans primary intention or not, she committed a clear case feticide. Any attempt to kill yourself while pregnant is a death sentence to the baby and she knew that when she ate the rat poison. Even if you don't success in killing yourself chances are you're going to kill the kid.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2012 02:46 PM by Aya.)
Quote:If these charges are successful, as she points out, this could easily lead to a slippery slope, where women who experience any kind of harm during pregnancy can be accused of trying to abort (or “murder”) their fetus.
Oh my god that is such a strawman. There is no way women would be charged indiscriminately for losing their babies. A woman who is attacked by an abusive lover or is injured in a car accident can not be charged for something that was completely out of her control. Same with women who have spontaneous miscarriages.
The fact is that whether it was this womans primary intention or not, she committed a clear case feticide. Any attempt to kill yourself while pregnant is a death sentence to the baby and she knew that when she ate the rat poison. Even if you don't success in killing yourself chances are you're going to kill the kid.
Quote:If these charges are successful, as she points out, this could easily lead to a slippery slope, where women who experience any kind of harm during pregnancy can be accused of trying to abort (or “murder”) their fetus.
Oh my god that is such a strawman. There is no way women would be charged indiscriminately for losing their babies. A woman who is attacked by an abusive lover or is injured in a car accident can not be charged for something that was completely out of her control. Same with women who have spontaneous miscarriages.
The fact is that whether it was this womans primary intention or not, she committed a clear case feticide. Any attempt to kill yourself while pregnant is a death sentence to the baby and she knew that when she ate the rat poison. Even if you don't success in killing yourself chances are you're going to kill the kid.
Agreed.
However, to play devil's advocate, someone must have serious problems before attempting suicide. Maybe there should be an investigation into her mental health before she is charged with murder.
(03-11-2012 06:50 PM)Stadium Wrote: The fetus feels pain?
So fucking what, it's a fetus.
I can already feel the heat!
Cows feel pain too. So do dogs. So does almost every animal on Earth. Arguement from the fetus feeling pain is thus stupid, unless you also apply it to mean you can't kill any mammal, most reptiles, amphibians, hell even fish feel pain...
Freedom is never given; it is always taken. So for the fact that you're not a slave, don't thank those in authority. Thank someone with a "bad attitude."
-Kevin Carson
sexual abuse of sheep is baaaaaaaaad
-BaronVonStrangle
School brings us together, but it doesn't bring us together
-Derchin
We lost Vietnam cuz we didn't train our soldiers to quickscope.
-gore goroth
Pro-choice here. I guess all that's really happened is that she couldn't get an abortion at the clinic so she tried it herself (If I'm reading this right)? Well, I don't blame her, it's her life so it's her choice.
Quote:Indiana is poised to pass a “fetal pain” law which would prohibit abortion after 20 weeks, claiming that after that point, the fetus can feel pain.
However, science is based on what is actually REAL. NOT what people SAY is real. Is there actually any type of scientific data to suggest a fetus feels pain? Does (the fetus) even have a nervous system developed by then?
Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!
Dear Tumblrites:Despite your wrongly self-diagnosedPTSD, no line ofscientific evidencesuggests people can be triggered over theinternet. Triggering works through thesenses(i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes throughreal time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it'sACTUALLY HAPPENINGin yourACTUALlife, youCANNOTbe triggered. The only exception to this is if you have aseizure, but then again, that's triggered byepilepsy(i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights)NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having aflashback. When you remember, youthink; when youflashback,youfeel.
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Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself."The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes."The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
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(03-12-2012 09:15 AM)Aya Wrote: ^doesn't matter. If you try to off yourself by ramming your car into a building and you kill people in the process it's still murder.
More like manslaughter. You didn't intend to kill the people in the building.
No it's murder. No one can claim manslaughter when they intentionally seek out a method of suicide that puts other people in danger. They knew the risk, they didn't care.
(03-12-2012 09:56 AM)Aya Wrote: No it's murder. No one can claim manslaughter when they intentionally seek out a method of suicide that puts other people in danger. They knew the risk, they didn't care.
Are you making a statement or am I reading this wrong or something? I thought all she did was try and kill herself by swallowing rat poison?
Hidden stuff:
TRIGGER WARNING: THIS TRIGGER WARNING CONTAINS TRIGGER WARNINGS!
Dear Tumblrites:Despite your wrongly self-diagnosedPTSD, no line ofscientific evidencesuggests people can be triggered over theinternet. Triggering works through thesenses(i.e. smell, taste, touch, vision, hearing.) but it goes throughreal time; if you're not experiencing it in real life as it'sACTUALLY HAPPENINGin yourACTUALlife, youCANNOTbe triggered. The only exception to this is if you have aseizure, but then again, that's triggered byepilepsy(i.e. rapidly-changing flashing lights)NOT PTSD. Remembering a bad incident is NOT the same thing as having aflashback. When you remember, youthink; when youflashback,youfeel.
#HashTagsAreForIdiots
Max Stirnir Wrote:"In the time of spirits thoughts grew till they overtopped my head, whose offspring they yet were; they hovered about me and convulsed me like fever-phantasies -- an awful power. The thoughts had become corporeal on their own account, were ghosts, e. g. God, Emperor, Pope, Fatherland, etc. If I destroy their corporeity, then I take them back into mine, and say: "I alone am corporeal." And now I take the world as what it is to me, as mine, as my property; I refer all to myself."The Ego and Its Own, pg. 15
Charles Manson Wrote:“Look down at me and you see a fool;
look up at me and you see a god;
look straight at me and you see yourself”
HeartofShadows Wrote:"Life is nothing more than a druggie trying to get their quick fix of happiness while dealing with the harsh withdrawal of reality"
Osip Mandelstam Wrote:"I divide all of world literature into authorized and unauthorized works. The former are all trash; the latter--stolen air. I want to spit in the face of every writer who first obtains permission and then writes."The Fourth Prose, 1930.
Lukas Foss Wrote:That is why the analogy of stealing does not work. With a thief, we want to know how much money he stole, and from whom. With the artist it is not how much he took and from whom, but what he did with it.
Quote:In a horrifyingly insensitive and counterintuitive move, murder charges were filed against an Indiana woman who attempted suicide in a late stage of her pregnancy. Bei Bei Shuai ingested rat poison in December, trying to end her life; she was taken to the hospital by friends and got help in time. When her child was born, though, she was first put on life support but then removed when doctors determined that they could not save her. Shuai is now facing feticide charges.
This whole fucking state, I swear.
"All Animals are equal, But some are more equal than others."
(03-12-2012 09:24 AM)Sociopath Wrote: Pro-choice here. I guess all that's really happened is that she couldn't get an abortion at the clinic so she tried it herself (If I'm reading this right)? Well, I don't blame her, it's her life so it's her choice.
Quote:Indiana is poised to pass a “fetal pain” law which would prohibit abortion after 20 weeks, claiming that after that point, the fetus can feel pain.
However, science is based on what is actually REAL. NOT what people SAY is real. Is there actually any type of scientific data to suggest a fetus feels pain? Does (the fetus) even have a nervous system developed by then?
Science argues more in favor of pro-life if anything.
(03-12-2012 09:56 AM)Aya Wrote: No it's murder. No one can claim manslaughter when they intentionally seek out a method of suicide that puts other people in danger. They knew the risk, they didn't care.
Are you making a statement or am I reading this wrong or something? I thought all she did was try and kill herself by swallowing rat poison?
No she tried to kill herself by eating rat poison while she was pregnant with a viable baby. The baby in this case is an innocent third party, and the mother showed no concern over the girls well being, which lead to her death. Especially when you consider the rat poison. Anything a mother eats gets sent to the baby. At least with hanging or slitting wrists theres a chance it could've been born healthy, albeit prematurely. Eating rat poison was a deliberate attempt to do harm to the child as well as herself. And she should be held accountable for it.
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