Space exploration-benefits

[Jesusaurisrex]

the magic of space can be experienced at home using the following steps:

get high
Play the first homeworld (for the love of god don't touch the second)
don't use guide videos to help you (seriously you ruin the magic)
cry at the end

space and magic and fucking emotional rollercoaster

[gore goroth]

(12-04-2011 07:13 PM)Jesusaurisrex Wrote:  the magic of space can be experienced at home using the following steps:

get high
Play the first homeworld (for the love of god don't touch the second)
don't use guide videos to help you (seriously you ruin the magic)
cry at the end

space and magic and fucking emotional rollercoaster

Lol, one of the few RTS games I actually like. Haven't got to playing homeworld 2 yet. I played homeworld: cataclysm for a while though. The beast is fucking creepy.

[Elfy]

(12-03-2011 09:53 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  No benefits at all. Sociopaths are just going to try to dominate the universe as they are the planet, and this will lead to yet another destroyed planet.

Astronomy is stupid, they are just trying to dominate space and make it a resources to develop new technologies, it's all about the realm

hahahahaahahahaaaaaaa

I doubt you could ever dominate the universe. I mean, even if you was traveling at the speed of light it would take you hundreds of billions of years just to get around the visible universe. You cannot dominate space, I don't know how deluded you are but it's so funny. If you was to set off now, at the speed of light you wouldn't even travel half the visible universe by the time the sun goes boom. Basically, it would probably take too long for human life to find an inhabitable place outside our galaxy.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

You guys don't understand "human Progress" you are misinterpreting history and human evolution based on myths that were taught to us, and point of views that are untrue.

Humans have been on a decline since agriculture, and technology is the ultimate outcome of all of this failure, genocide, and complete holocaust of everything human of us.

Science is capitalism, science create everything capitalism needs. You can't have capitalism without science. Economics, and all these bullshit instrumentalist, mechanistic, utilitarian, views of the world.

Science is also a business, think Lipitor, electricity, oil, and cars even.

I don't know how I'm going to explain everything to you guys, without having to go into complete essays, but If you ask me specific questions I think I can get a good answer.

But you can't expect me to respond maturely ( or respond at all)to ridiculous shit like face palm.gifs, and rude personal comments.

Efs Okay so science is capitalism because without science we wouldn't have capitalism, and science further benefits capitalism and it's destruction of the world. Science is the system by which it does this.
and

Technology IS some "CONSPIRACY THAT'S LEAD BY FASCISTS AND CORPORATIONS WHO HAVE TAKEN OVER THE WORLD AND WILL CONTINUE IF WE DON'T START A CULTURE OF RESISTANCE"

Why is one of the previously richest man in the world the a technological innovator Bill gates?

And that douchebag from Apple who has sweatshops in a China to make precious apple products, who thanks god died of cancer?

If you wanna talk about technology we can, because I'd honestly like to hear your stance?

[Elfy]

I don't know wether to laugh or cry... with laughter.

Quote:You guys don't understand "human Progress" you are misinterpreting history and human evolution based on myths that were taught to us, and point of views that are untrue.

Please speicify those 'myths' that were taught to us.

Quote:Humans have been on a decline since agriculture, and technology is the ultimate outcome of all of this failure, genocide, and complete holocaust of everything human of us.

Agriculture was created to support a growing population. Technology IS progression and helps us massively. Technology has helped pretty much everywhere. Hospitals is a good example. 'Holocaust of everything human of us'? What the fuck are you going on about.

Quote:Science is capitalism, science create everything capitalism needs. You can't have capitalism without science. Economics, and all these bullshit instrumentalist, mechanistic, utilitarian, views of the world.

Science is the study of the physical world around us. It is not an economical stance.

Quote:Science is also a business, think Lipitor, electricity, oil, and cars even.

Science is just ideas and theories, it is not a business. Electricity and oil was around before humans, lol. Are you suggesting we just live without electricity, oil and cars?

Quote:Okay so science is capitalism because without science we wouldn't have capitalism

x is y because without x we wouldn't have y

HAHA great logic you got there

Quote:Technology IS some "CONSPIRACY THAT'S LEAD BY FASCISTS AND CORPORATIONS WHO HAVE TAKEN OVER THE WORLD AND WILL CONTINUE IF WE DON'T START A CULTURE OF RESISTANCE"

I'm done here thanks for the laugh.

[Miller0700]

(12-05-2011 03:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Science is capitalism, science create everything capitalism needs. You can't have capitalism without science. Economics, and all these bullshit instrumentalist, mechanistic, utilitarian, views of the world.

Science is also a business, think Lipitor, electricity, oil, and cars even.

(12-05-2011 03:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  But you can't expect me to respond maturely ( or respond at all)to ridiculous shit like face palm.gifs, and rude personal comments.

Cause you spew out nonsensical responses. Like above and below.

(12-05-2011 03:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Technology IS some "CONSPIRACY THAT'S LEAD BY FASCISTS AND CORPORATIONS WHO HAVE TAKEN OVER THE WORLD AND WILL CONTINUE IF WE DON'T START A CULTURE OF RESISTANCE"

[Spiritus_Raptor]

Alright, Shotgun, I realize that because you were a whiny conspiracy theorist/asshole at birth, a lot of people shat on you. But for the love of god don't take it out on us, pretty please?

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Quote:Please speicify those 'myths' that were taught to us.

The myth that humans are apparently above nature, and that our "purpose" is to rise above nature and use it.

But really who are the people that have been using this and who has really benefited? You have the dawn agriculture, and a group of people choose a life of quantity over quality. And then you have civilization,the birth us cities", and civilization brings us inequality, it brings us rulers, religion, government, wars, slaves, landless laborers.
And what are the requirements for the birth of these things? Unending violence, slavery, and murder. People have cities because the village agricultural societies have gotten to big and they have totally overshot their land base, and what do they require? They require the importation of foods and resources. Meaning they have to invade the surrounding groups around them and expand through violence and war and coercion to enslave them and use their resources. Until everything is finally so deforested, the soil becomes salinized, and you basically decertify the entire region and the civilization collapses.

Humans trying to dominate and separate themselves from "nature" from the real living world, they have pretty much certified their doom.

The myths we are taught about "human Progress" and all this socialist progressive, ( these are the things I'm taught at my "Science based" school), is that progress is a good thing, and that the destruction and exploitation of every living thing is amazing.

Derchin said that is is truth that human's are above nature. Is that true? It doesn't add up? We are all part of an ecosystem. We eat animals, those animals eat plants, we die, and the soil eats us. We are inescapably part of it, and this total destruction and denial of it has just lead us to an existence of ultimate and seemingly infinite self destruction.

This myth that is is okay to dominate and objectify the living world is a total myth(an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.).

These beliefs do not justify the killing of the now, the destruction of scientists, the sociopathy of the rich, the evil of corporations, and corruptive lifestyle(death style) of this entire culture where everyone is like fucking unhappy.

Elfy you seem cool, so I will do my best to explain.

Quote:Agriculture was created to support a growing population. Technology IS progression and helps us massively. Technology has helped pretty much everywhere. Hospitals is a good example. 'Holocaust of everything human of us'? What the fuck are you going on about.

No, agriculture only caused to us to produce even more, and have a major decline in health and quality of life.Other societies death with overpopulation with birth control, and since women had less body fat and were more active they had their periods less and didn't get pregnant as often in sexually active lives.

Technology is progression ins a sense that it is now just another thing to serve the economy, another consumer product, another thing for people to put all their securities in, another way for people to waste their lives, and another thing for people to escape from the actual real world, and instead live in a world of false reality.
Technology requires huge destruction of earth,and huge destruction of life, ( including human). Look at all the people that have died and currently dying from the Industrial Tar Sands projects.

Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution life has been so unsustainable that people have rely on machines just to survive. This entire culture is based on machines,and we do require whatever machines need us to do.

If machines require us use no renewable resources, we will do that. If machines require us to stay staring at a machine for hours and hours a day as time flies by, we will do just that.

Read "The Myth of the Machine" by Lewis Mumford.

Technology hasn't benefited us at all, it has just progressed our enslavement to machines, and is currently a new dope.

I can't point out one thing that is good about technology, or how it has actually benefited us. It's made us desensitized, made us lazy, made us socially retarded, it's made us total nuke heads, who will click here for power click here for security and salvation and serenity. It's just made us media tools.

'Holocaust of everything human about us" it's basically destroyed our sensitivity towards, made us sociopaths, who ignore their inner feelings like the plague. Greed, passiveness and ignorance,gluttony, sadism, masocism.

Hospitals only existence because we are generally diseased and unhealthy, but then again in this country you can't even get proper health care unless you can afford it, and they fucking lie to you about what you should eat to protect business. Infact they are a business I forget.
They just operate on the insane belief that humans can be healthy in a very unhealthy way of life.

Quote:Science is the study of the physical world around us. It is not an economical stance

Science studies simply the "physical world", and denies that anything else exists, through scientific methods. Through testing, and control, and torture. I mean do you really think worms want to be mass gassed and then stored in alcohol solution? Do you think the jews in the nazi holocaust wanted to be disfigured and experimented on?

Sorry but I have to bring it back up " forcing things to jump through hoops on command."

Science may not have an economical stance, but scientists definitely do. And economics is a science. And in the concerns of the past and today, it has only benefited the rich and the rulers.
It's merely a tool for them.

Here's a good summary by Derick Jensen if you care.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR2O5cvknvo

Quote:Science is just ideas and theories, it is not a business. Electricity and oil was around before humans, lol. Are you suggesting we just live without electricity, oil and cars?

Theories based on forcing things to do shit, like If i strapped you do a chair and forced to bend you arm, and then predicted that you'd bend your arm if I told you to, (because I'm threatening you to do so), I am apparently a whole genius.

Science studies the world only for it's only benefit ( of economists) to control the world. If you want to study something you should live with it, and immerse yourself with it, observe and build a relationship to unlock it's secrets.

Yeah because living without oil and electricity wouldn't cause us to be heading towards a major economic collapse, we wouldn't have indescribable and uncountable population and destruction of our fucking home and each other, and we wouldn't have the tragedy of war. And we wouldn't have a stupid plastic consumer culture, who are totally ignorant.

Quote:x is y because without x we wouldn't have y

HAHA great logic you got there

Economics is a science, capitalism is a form of economics. Therefore economics is science.

[Miller0700]

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  

Quote:Please speicify those 'myths' that were taught to us.

The myth that humans are apparently above nature, and that our "purpose" is to rise above nature and use it.

You're a hypocrite if you believe that.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Humans trying to dominate and separate themselves from "nature" from the real living world, they have pretty much certified their doom.

We're not separating ourselves form nature because we're apart of it and always will be.

SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:We are all part of an ecosystem. We eat animals, those animals eat plants, we die, and the soil eats us.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Derchin said that is is truth that human's are above nature.

Stop blowing shit out your ass cause I've never said that. Ever.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  This myth that is is okay to dominate and objectify the living world is a total myth(an unproved or false collective belief that is used to justify a social institution.).

Says that in the Bible.

Quote:Science is the study of the physical world around us. It is not an economical stance

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Science studies simply the "physical world", and denies that anything else exists, through scientific methods.

That's fucking bullshit.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Through testing, and control, and torture.

There's strict laws as to how animals are treated during testing. Look it up.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Science may not have an economical stance, but scientists definitely do.

But that doesn't effect science at all. Some theists are scientists, but they know not to bring religion in the science lab.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  And economics is a type of science.

But science isn't economics.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Theories based on forcing things to do shit, like If i strapped you do a chair and forced to bend you arm, and then predicted that you'd bend your arm if I told you to, (because I'm threatening you to do so), I am apparently a whole genius.

We have computer simulations that can do that if we wanted them to. Yeah.

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Science studies the world only for it's only benefit ( of economists)

Do I have to bring out the facepalm.jpg again?

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  to control the world. If you want to study something you should live with it, and immerse yourself with it, observe and build a relationship to unlock it's secrets.

And some scientists do that. Why do you keep ignoring that fact?

(12-05-2011 05:30 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Economics is a science, capitalism is a form of economics. Therefore economics is science.

Horrible, horrible logic. Stop begging the question.

You have this sense that if we all reverted back to nature, everything would suddenly be all smiles and rainbows and believe me, I had that same thought process and I was willing to pack all my shit up and hike there. Then I started to inform myself on nature and realized nature is a bitch. It doesn't let up for anyone and just going out there to experience it or to get away from the world will get you killed. You think you got it hard here?

And no, I'm not advocating the destruction of nature.

[LOON_ATTIC]

w3r3rr7923oiejcn09euj 093 08ewf n9e-wf wef9- wefu0u90 fu-wef- we-0f-

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
AHAHAAHAH
HAHAHAAHAAHAHAH

[Miller0700]

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Lunatic are you high?

Also Derchin, I thought you were done arguing what's bogging you back all of a sudden?

How is nature a bitch? When we turn our hearts from nature we become cold. Science is economics, how don't you understand that?

Quote:You have this sense that if we all reverted back to nature, everything would suddenly be all smiles and rainbows and believe me, I had that same thought process and I was willing to pack all my shit up and hike there. Then I started to inform myself on nature and realized nature is a bitch. It doesn't let up for anyone and just going out there to experience it or to get away from the world will get you killed. You think you got it hard here?

And no, I'm not advocating the destruction of nature.

How is nature a bitch? We have do deal with nature regardless, but destroying everything is absolutely retarded? What the fuck are you talking about, you sound like a complete idiot.

I never said suddenly things would be all smiles and rainbows. I think humans should just go back to living sustainable sane lives. And that involves ZOMG! Having to catch our food! And drinking from actual streams! OMG, the horror, how absolutely terrible and toiling, what a dreadful way to live!

Omg, the Mbuti and the Amazonians how absolutely stupid they are for wanting to continue their way of life, with nature, for over thousands of years and still today, with the so called "developed" world trying to influence them!

They must love this so called "bitch" that's nature, that provides all their food? Ooohhh! How fucking stupid!

" It doesn't let up for anyone and just going out there to experience it or to get away from the world will get you killed."

I audibly lol'd.

You are a dingbat. This statement is absolutely illogical.

[Miller0700]

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Also Derchin, I thought you were done arguing what's bogging you back all of a sudden?

You kept going on and on so I broke my vow.

Can't get enough of me I see. Its okay. I understand.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  How is nature a bitch?

Let's see, you're battling the elements, hunger, thirst, animals, disease (and yes they're out there) and exposure. Its a bitch and even the most experienced naturalist will run into problems. Don't even deny it.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Science is economics, how don't you understand that?

Science is science. How do you not understand that?

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  How is nature a bitch? We have do deal with nature regardless,

Read the second one.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  but destroying everything is absolutely retarded?

Like I said, I'm not advocating the destruction of nature.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  What the fuck are you talking about, you sound like a complete idiot.

Oh, the irony.....

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  I never said suddenly things would be all smiles and rainbows. I think humans should just go back to living sustainable sane lives. And that involves ZOMG! Having to catch our food! And drinking from actual streams! OMG, the horror, how absolutely terrible and toiling, what a dreadful way to live!

Read the second one.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Omg, the Mbuti and the Amazonians how absolutely stupid they are for wanting to continue their way of life, with nature, for over thousands of years and still today, with the so called "developed" world trying to influence them!

And even they die out there due to predators, exposure and disease. What makes you think you, me or anyone in this country will fair any better? Do you even know how to survive out there?

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  They must love this so called "bitch" that's nature, that provides all their food? Ooohhh! How fucking stupid!

And you're going on like nature is gonna go easy on them and its not. Its a struggle.

Thousands of people in Africa die every year due to famine and exposure alone.



Wow. It was space now its nature. We derailed the hell outta this.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

(12-05-2011 10:49 AM)Derchin Wrote:  

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Also Derchin, I thought you were done arguing what's bogging you back all of a sudden?

You kept going on and on so I broke my vow.

Can't get enough of me I see. Its okay. I understand.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  How is nature a bitch?

Let's see, you're battling the elements, hunger, thirst, animals, disease (and yes they're out there) and exposure. Its a bitch and even the most experienced naturalist will run into problems. Don't even deny it.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Science is economics, how don't you understand that?

Science is science. How do you not understand that?

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  How is nature a bitch? We have do deal with nature regardless,

Read the second one.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  but destroying everything is absolutely retarded?

Like I said, I'm not advocating the destruction of nature.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  What the fuck are you talking about, you sound like a complete idiot.

Oh, the irony.....

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  I never said suddenly things would be all smiles and rainbows. I think humans should just go back to living sustainable sane lives. And that involves ZOMG! Having to catch our food! And drinking from actual streams! OMG, the horror, how absolutely terrible and toiling, what a dreadful way to live!

Read the second one.

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Omg, the Mbuti and the Amazonians how absolutely stupid they are for wanting to continue their way of life, with nature, for over thousands of years and still today, with the so called "developed" world trying to influence them!

And even they die out there due to predators, exposure and disease. What makes you think you, me or anyone in this country will fair any better? Do you even know how to survive out there?

(12-05-2011 10:24 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  They must love this so called "bitch" that's nature, that provides all their food? Ooohhh! How fucking stupid!

And you're going on like nature is gonna go easy on them and its not. Its a struggle.

Thousands of people in Africa die every year due to famine and exposure alone.



Wow. It was space now its nature. We derailed the hell outta this.

First of all tell me what diseases the amazonians are dying from ?

Secondly, the diseases of civilization are far more deadly, and actually people living in harmony with the natural world are disease free so I don't know what you're talking about, Please give examples.

Also, humans are INTELLIGENT beings, we know how to survive, we've been survive before agriculture perfectly, and now we are just heading towards early extinction.

If you're not advocating the destruction of nature than why do you praise that that is?

Hunger= Get some food it's all around you
Thirst= What do you think streams are for, decoration?

People are more than fit to survive in the natural world, even hunter gatherer societies were able to have technologies and avoid diseases for thousands of years, we only get diseases from eating grain, and animal domestication, examples:

small pox, rickets, malaria, bubonic plague, aids, and measles.

[LOON_ATTIC]

Give proof. I don't know where you're pulling that out of.

[Miller0700]

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  First of all tell me what diseases the Amazonian are dying from ?

Quote:had brought diseases with them against which many Indians were helpless due to lack of immunity. Measles, smallpox, tuberculosis, and influenza killed tens of thousands.

And these predate civilization.

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Secondly, the diseases of civilization are far more deadly,

So what? Diseases are disease and you can die from them regardless.

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  and actually people living in harmony with the natural world are disease free

Crock of shit.

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  so I don't know what you're talking about, Please give examples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poi...ous_plants

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Also, humans are INTELLIGENT beings, we know how to survive,

And I agree, but we can't predict when nature will behave.

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  If you're not advocating the destruction of nature than why do you praise that that is?

Huh?

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Hunger= Get some food it's all around you

Not all food is edible. And how would you go by checking it might I ask? Food like potatoes, apples and oranges have been domesticated and can't be found in nature. Good luck with everything else.

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  What do you think streams are for, decoration?

And you can't just drink all stream water. It doesn't work like that. If doesn't contain pollution, it will contain harmful bacteria and animal waste.

(12-05-2011 11:08 AM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  People are more than fit to survive in the natural world, even hunter gatherer societies were able to have technologies and avoid diseases for thousands of years,

They had experience, we don't.

And like I said:

Quote:you're battling the elements, hunger, thirst, animals, disease (and yes they're out there) and exposure. Its a bitch and even the most experienced naturalist will run into problems. Don't even deny it.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Quote:And these predate civilization.

No they don't, they were brought through civilization. Did you skip history class?

"

Quote:So what? Diseases are disease and you can die from them regardless.

I mean to grow up but this just deserves it. You definitely see uncivilized people getting diseases on their own and not from civilization. They definitely got heart disease, diabetes, and influenza ( sarcasm).

So what? Global Warming is global warming and you can from that regardless.

Quote:I'm a Crock of shit.

Quote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poi...ous_plants

this link does not exist.

If your trying to give me a list of poisonous plant, why the hell would we eat or infect ourselves with poisonous plants?

Infact many tribal people develop ways to use poisons of plants and animals to hunt?

If we lived with the land we'd have a deep understanding of it, and know what and what not to do. Like seriously, it's like common sense.

But if I went into the wild now I wouldn't know that plants because I've become so detached and stupid from it that I'd probe get poison ivy cause I can't identify the plants.

But seriously this is a very weak point, and kind of pathetic.

It's like saying don't cross the street because you can get hit by a car.

Suprising thing is, is that cars still kill more people than poisonous plants do yearly and we'll still drive.

Because plants are also living beings they contain poisons like cyanide to protect themselves. Like most of the food we eat we develop methods to make it edible like opium tea, almonds, and even cherries.

Humans weren't even meant to eat mostly plants, our native diet is meats, some fruits, and leafy green vegetables really.

As I said again, really pathetic generalization.

Quote:And I agree, but we can't predict when nature will behave.

Uh yes we can.

Quote:And you can't just drink all stream water. It doesn't work like that. If doesn't contain pollution, it will contain harmful bacteria and animal waste.

it's moving water dumbass, it's it's own natural filter. But if you're talking about now you can't even do it. But about 500 years ago it was okay.

Now you're just not making general sense.

Quote:Not all food is edible. And how would you go by checking it might I ask? Food like potatoes, apples and oranges have been domesticated and can't be found in nature. Good luck with everything else.

Duuhhhh, it's called meat asshole, it's what makes our brains to big.


And of course they have experience retard, and of course we don't. We serve an elitist group of rich sociopaths and have to slave to them just to survive.

We've fucked up. Of course going back to nature would be a complete challenge now, because we've destroyed so much of it, and wiped out so many species. And our population is to ridiculous.

But I'm pretty sure people will never understand that we need to change, and civilization will end itself.

So don't think I have some naive hope that humans are stop their bullshit.[/quote]

---

Quote:Give proof. I don't know where you're pulling that out of.[/]

[quote]Chapter 11: The Changing Face of Death
Disease affected populations in three ways: a) epidemics and plagues; b) persistent local sources of infections (e.g. sleeping sickness and river blindness); c)inadequate diet which mostly affected the poor by reducing their immunity to (a) and (b).
Hunter-gatherers were relatively free of disease because groups had infrequent contact with each other or with animals. However, this situation changed markedly as groups settled down to agriculture, domesticating animals and inevitably growing in size as a result of the more abundant food supply. ―After living for 10,000 years in close proximity with animals, humans now share 65 diseases with dogs, 50 with cattle, 46 with sheep and goats and 42 with pigs.28‖ The outcome was that a whole new range of diseases affected humans, as some bacteria and viruses present in animals changed into forms that could thrive in humans. The table below lists just some of the main human diseases which are related to animals.

Human disease Animal Animal disease
Smallpox Cattle Cowpox
Measles Cattle Rinderpest
TB Cattle [TB]
Diphtheria Cattle
Influenza Pigs[dogs, horses] [Influenza]
Common cold Horses [Common Cold]
Leprosy Water buffalo


http://populationmatters.org/wp-content/...istory.pdf

Jared Diamond Guns Germs and Steel

If you can find it online go to part that says

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqYx--VWYdE

start at 2:36 for the really informative part

[Miller0700]

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  

Quote:And these predate civilization.

No they don't, they were brought through civilization. Did you skip history class?

Disease was present in animals and when we domesticated them these diseases were passed onto us.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  If your trying to give me a list of poisonous plant, why the hell would we eat or infect ourselves with poisonous plants?

That's my point. You expect us to revert to nature but not to know what these plants are. If we were to go to nature do you expect anyone to easily recognize them?

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Infact many tribal people develop ways to use poisons of plants and animals to hunt?

And yet that can still kill them.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  If we lived with the land we'd have a deep understanding of it, and know what and what not to do. Like seriously, it's like common sense.

Like I said that takes years to understand. Many will die to see this happen.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  But if I went into the wild now I wouldn't know that plants because I've become so detached and stupid from it that I'd probe get poison ivy cause I can't identify the plants.

What?

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  It's like saying don't cross the street because you can get hit by a car.

Unless your blind, suicidal, stupid as shit, or never seen a car before, what's the deal? Horrible analogy.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Suprising thing is, is that cars still kill more people than poisonous plants do yearly and we'll still drive.

Plant can't get us from point A to point B. Horrible analogy.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Because plants are also living beings they contain poisons like cyanide to protect themselves. Like most of the food we eat we develop methods to make it edible like opium tea, almonds, and even cherries.

And made possible by... begins with a C.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Humans weren't even meant to eat mostly plants, our native diet is meats, some fruits, and leafy green vegetables really.

And that shit has to be treated and cooked properly.

Quote:And I agree, but we can't predict when nature will behave.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Uh yes we can.

Predict what day it will rain without a news source. Predict when a bear will come up to you while your sleeping and destroy your stuff. Predict when your food will go bad when you have no way of preserving it. I'll wait.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  it's moving water dumbass

And guess what it gets carried with it, genius?

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  it's it's own natural filter.

But its not 100% percent effective. Even our best water purification treatment centers can't take out everything. And I would bet that its better than natural purification.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Duuhhhh, it's called meat asshole, it's what makes our brains to big.

Eating too much meat all the time causes scurvy dumbass. Eating meat and not eating fruits filled with vitamin C causes that. And meat has to be treated, preserved and handled properly.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  And of course they have experience retard, and of course we don't. We serve an elitist group of rich sociopaths and have to slave to them just to survive.

So if we just went out there, we'd be aokay?

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  We've fucked up. Of course going back to nature would be a complete challenge now, because we've destroyed so much of it, and wiped out so many species. And our population is to ridiculous.

So stop trying to persuade us to go back there.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  But I'm pretty sure people will never understand that we need to change....

Agreed, but not in the way you see it.

(12-05-2011 12:03 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  So don't think I have some naive hope that humans are stop their bullshit.

I don't. Its all easier said than done.

[/quote]

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Quote:Disease was present in animals and when we domesticated them these diseases were passed onto us.

These diseases became present because we domesticated them.

Quote:That's my point. You expect us to revert to nature but not to know what these plants are. If we were to go to nature do you expect anyone to easily recognize them?[quote]

Did you read my last statement?

[quote]And yet that can still kill them.

Show me evidence comparing the death rates of tribal people by poisonous plants. Even civilized plants can kill you, like peanuts, and grains. Agricultural food destroys the body.

Walking across the street can also kill you.

Hey did you know we're all going to die one day?

Quote:Plant can't get us from point A to point B. Horrible analogy.

Then why the fuck would we need poisonous plants anyway if they'll kill us retard? Just because cars move us places does not mean they are worth the ozone layer, our health, human and animal lives, and the fucking mining and destructing of the land, sweatshop slavery, and tons of laws and an entire asshole driving culture, and all the stresses, cautions, responsibilities, even unnatural materialist obsessions, and fucking costs to use them.

Cars also imply that humans can't travel without them.

But plants do get us from a to b also. If there aren't plants, animals can't live, and we can't eat animals. So therefore plants are definitely useful, necessary, and fucking important.

You're the one that just made the horrible analogy.

Quote:Predict what day it will rain without a news source. Predict when a bear will come up to you while your sleeping and destroy your stuff. Predict when your food will go bad when you have no way of preserving it. I'll wait.

It's possible to predict weather without news, the aboriginals and indigenous did because they were intelligent and had great knowledge of the land, and had all their senses awake.

Predict when a psychopath will come up to you while your sleeping and destroy your stuff.

I'm sure I'd have an understanding of where bear and certain roam at night, and what they are interested in. And not all of us have to live in woods.

You predict when your food will go bad and you'll have no way of preserving it. If I'm hunting and gathering I'm not real preserving food long enough for it to spoil.

Quote:But its not 100% percent effective. Even our best water purification treatment centers can't take out everything. And I would bet that its better than natural purification.

God did you read the rest of what i said? Of course we can't drink from streams now, we can't even be safe with tap water, now that it's full of brain damaging fluoride.

Quote:Eating too much meat all the time causes scurvy dumbass. Eating meat and not eating fruits filled with vitamin C causes that. And meat has to be treated, preserved and handled properly.

Eating too much meat will not give you scurvy. There's no evidence that supports that. The inuits and Buffalo only ate meat and they didn't develop scurvy.

Surprisingly scurvy only developed during the time of the Egyptians and Greeks, civilized societies.
Organ Meats are full of vitamin c and other important nutrients.

Quote:So if we just went out there, we'd be okay?

Firstly, to be able to do that successfully, I don't think you really understand how big our population is and the entire civil war it would take to be able to go naked to the woods and live our lives.

Quote:So stop trying to persuade us to go back there.

Yet you expect me to cheer on humanity to continue their own extinction? Are you a complete moron. If we do succeed in a big revolution the earth will restore itself, and we can survive through permaculture, and basically take a long process of replenishing the land and our neighbors.

I mean look at chernobyl, surprisingly all of the near extinct animals returned after the humans left, so it's kind of scary how a nuclear disaster is better for nature than cities.

Are we reaching agreement?

---

I'm checking out, I probably won't go on this shit for a while.

[Spiritus_Raptor]

Shotgun, I have a question, I'll let Derchin handle the rest, you are against agriculture, no?

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

(12-05-2011 01:49 PM)Spiritus_Raptor Wrote:  Shotgun, I have a question, I'll let Derchin handle the rest, you are against agriculture, no?

I'm iffy on it. Because there were many native american societies who were farmers, yet didn't have civilization.

The problem with agriculture is the food, the destruction of topsoil, forests, rivers and basically labour and system it needs.

Plus, it's just never been able to provide adequate amounts of food, especially with the rise of population consistently. And agricultural foods certainly aren't good for you.

So yeah, I guess I'm pretty against it.

I'm for permaculture, foraging,hunting, and low maintenance cultivation.

[Miller0700]

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  These diseases became present because we domesticated them.

So they were always here. Only when we cam into the scene did they became deadly. The animals they inhabited were fine, they were immune. Us on the other hand....

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Even civilized plants can kill you, like peanuts, and grains. Food destroys the body.

Don't eat.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Walking across the street can also kill you.

Only if you're stupid enough to get hit.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Hey did you know we're all going to die one day?

Why die now when you don't have to?

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Then why the fuck would we need poisonous plants anyway if they'll kill us retard?

The hell are you getting at?

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Just because cars move us places does not mean they are worth the ozone layer, our health, human and animal lives, and the fucking mining and destructing of the land, sweatshop slavery, and tons of laws and an entire asshole driving culture, and all the stresses, cautions, responsibilities, even unnatural materialist obsessions, and fucking costs to use them.

We've invented eco-friendly cars you know.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Cars also imply that humans can't travel without them.

No they don't. Only lazy fucks believe that. Cars are useful but we can (and do) get to places without them. Trains, buses, bikes, planes, boats, motorcycles, etc

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  But plants do get us from a to b also. If there aren't plants, animals can't live, and we can't eat animals. So therefore plants are definitely useful, necessary, and fucking important.

Plants are incredibly use except for transportation. Lets hop on a daisy, see how far it takes us.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  It's possible to predict weather without news, the aboriginals and indigenous did because they were intelligent and had great knowledge of the land, and had all their senses awake.

No, I mean predict the exact day it will rain, even if its weeks or months away. That's my point.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Predict when a psychopath will come up to you while your sleeping and destroy your stuff.

Don't switch this shit on me.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  If I'm hunting and gathering I'm not real preserving food long enough for it to spoil.

But its not a guarantee that you'll catch enough each day to survive on. Nothing is guaranteed in nature. And if you want to survive, you'll have to stock up, meaning you'll have to preserve all this shit somehow.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  God did you read the rest of what i said? Of course we can't drink from streams now, we can't even be safe with tap water, now that it's full of brain damaging fluoride.

Contradicting yourself.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  What do you think streams are for, decoration?

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  ...it would take to be able to go naked to the woods and live our lives.

That makes it even worse.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Yet you expect me to cheer on humanity to continue their own extinction?

I assumed you would love to see that happen.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Are you a complete moron. If we do succeed in a big revolution the earth will restore itself....

Stop with the whining then.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  I mean look at chernobyl, surprisingly all of the near extinct animals returned after the humans left, so it's kind of scary how a nuclear disaster is better for nature than cities.

See above ^^^

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Are we reaching agreement?

Meh.

(12-05-2011 01:32 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  I'm checking out, I probably won't go on this shit for a while.

Yeah sure....

[Spiritus_Raptor]

(12-05-2011 01:57 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  

(12-05-2011 01:49 PM)Spiritus_Raptor Wrote:  Shotgun, I have a question, I'll let Derchin handle the rest, you are against agriculture, no?

I'm iffy on it. Because there were many native american societies who were farmers, yet didn't have civilization.

The problem with agriculture is the food, the destruction of topsoil, forests, rivers and basically labour and system it needs.

Plus, it's just never been able to provide adequate amounts of food, especially with the rise of population consistently. And agricultural foods certainly aren't good for you.

So yeah, I guess I'm pretty against it.

I'm for permaculture, foraging,hunting, and low maintenance cultivation.

The berries and roots that you feed on? They're simply not enough. You have to rely on the animals to. And they're not there all year. You have to follow them. Bears, tigers and lions rely on Gazelle and Fish for the nutrition that you lack by foraging.

Alright, permaculture seems good. But we use a lot of technology in modern day self-sustaining organic farms that science gave us. Rainwater harvesting systems, aquaponic systems, and passive solar designs. A lot of it can be made from more advanced architecture, but unless your in an ideal environment, you're gonna need some of the above technology, which came from civilization. Although I do support the idea and the values.

Agriculture doesn't provide enough food, you're right. But then neither does foraging or hunting by themselves. Combine them, you have a stable environment where you would grow and expand, creating civilization.

And let's say you pull off an ancient man and follow the animals while foraging. When you follow them into a different area, there are so many unexpected things. Like where the roots and berries are, the climate year around, and water supply.

No matter what happens, civilization is bound to happen. Humans will find the efficient way of settling down, developing agriculture and domesticating animals. It's what has happened for the past thousands and thousands of years.

[SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT]

Quote:Agriculture doesn't provide enough food, you're right. But then neither does foraging or hunting by themselves. Combine them, you have a stable environment where you would grow and expand, creating civilization.

And let's say you pull off an ancient man and follow the animals while foraging. When you follow them into a different area, there are so many unexpected things. Like where the roots and berries are, the climate year around, and water supply.

No matter what happens, civilization is bound to happen. Humans will find the efficient way of settling down, developing agriculture and domesticating animals. It's what has happened for the past thousands and thousands of years.

Foraging and hunting foes provide enough food.

Civilization has only been around for about 10,000 years. Huntergather societies have been around for over 3.5 billion years, and even until today.

So no, we don't need civilization. We were much better off as nomadic tribes, who lived their lives for the now, off the land, and in harmony with the life around them and were able to develop complex cultures.

Civilization has never been sustainable or healthy and it never will be. We are just waiting for peak oil and global warming.

Good job humanity.
Goodbye.

[Miller0700]

(12-05-2011 02:29 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Foraging and hunting foes provide enough food.

Sources?

(12-05-2011 02:29 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Civilization has only been around for about 10,000 years. Huntergather societies have been around for over 3.5 billion years, and even until today.

Humans haven't been around for 3.5 billions years. And yes, H.Gs only are applicable to us.

(12-05-2011 02:29 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  So no, we don't need civilization. We were much better off as nomadic tribes, who lived their lives for the now, off the land, and in harmony with the life around them and were able to develop complex cultures.

Like that McCandless guy? Look what happened to him.

(12-05-2011 02:29 PM)SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Wrote:  Civilization has never been sustainable or healthy and it never will be. We are just waiting for peak oil and global warming.

Good job humanity.
Goodbye.

Duh, but we have to work on it. You just can't give up.

[Spiritus_Raptor]

Alright, I'm done with your straw man arguments Shotgun. Derchin, carry on if you wish, but it seems hopeless.

[Elfy]

Yeah let's all go live in tribes because that's going to solve all problems. The funiest claim that I've heard from you is that aboriginals don't die from diseases.

Quote:Huntergather societies have been around for over 3.5 billion years

This is why no one takes you seriously, because you pull shit out of your ass.

Quote:So no, we don't need civilization. We were much better off as nomadic tribes, who lived their lives for the now, off the land, and in harmony with the life around them and were able to develop complex cultures.

Sure it's all going to be harmony and peace... not. If everyone went back to being in tribes, there would not be enough resources to share. Also gangs would happily rampage around stealing your shit and causing violence.

The whole world is not going to go back to being tribal and you know it.

[gore goroth]

Shotgun, are you Amish????

[LOON_ATTIC]

tl;dr/headache just scrolling through.
God damn we can make a bible equivalent just taking everything from this thread.

[.Manicrose.]

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED IN THIS THREAD I WAS AWAY FOR ONE NIGHT WHAT THE FUCK