Why people do things they don't like.

[liq3]

Disclaimer: This will probably devolve into ranting, or at worse mindless babbling.

It baffles me to this day. Why do people do things they don't benefit from? More so, things that hurt them? I mean, I know we are supposed to give to other people, but we should never give if it will hurt ourselves (well, mostly...an old person dying for a young person is often worth it imo). So, why do people do things they don't want to? That they gain very little from.

Best example is school. Many people get horribly bullied at school. Beaten up and picked on. So why don't they stop going to school? Physically it's not hard at all. So, it's psychological then. Psychologically hard. Why? I mean there could be that fact that they are your parents. You are inherently, by nature, inclined to trust them. They tell you to go to school, so you do. But what about when you realize they might be wrong? But wait. You already know they are wrong. You tell them you are bullied. They do everything they can to help, except the ever so obvious idea of taking you out of school, and homeschooling you.

What about refusing your parents? You might be scared that they will abandon you. Send you to boot camp or juvi maybe. Well that's a fear based reason, and I tell fear never leads to any good. Assuming you went through with it, and did end up in juvi...Well you could tough it out. You will gain huge amounts of self-discipline if you survive. So that's not really a negative. But, I guess this isn't about objectivity, but subjectivity? Yes, I would think so. So, the person might think it's a negative. They'd handle the situation badly. Now that makes me wonder, why are they in the frameset of that?

I guess it goes back to childhood. Before they even went to school. What was that like? I'm not sure. Maybe they saw their parents getting ordered by and obeying their parents. Maybe they witnessed their parents stuck in a struggle that is easy to escape, but their parents don't? So they emulate this behavior. They copy what their parents do. Maybe that's it... Hrm...

tl;dr version: Please don't post in this thread :D.

[random_name]

well, i go to school because if i didn't i wouldn't see my freinds much, and that wouldn't go down well. so i manage to get through everything else with the thoought of my freinds. but yes, kids do copy there parents, so my entire family smokes, if they are old enough. i am the exception though, but meh. i dont know why that is

tl;dr version : i see my freinds at school and dont smoke.

[croush]

We do things we don't necessarily like because we're very animalistic in our herd, or mass, mentality. There is a primitive and instinctual part of us that tends to take the path of the least amount of resistance. We go to school because this is what our parents tell us to do, is what our friends do, and is what everyone we know did when they were at school age. If we were to take a different road we would meet a certain amount of resistance in most cases. It's not absolute or universal. It's only the usual thing to do, this is why it's the usual thing to go to school every day. Some people don't, and there are certain reasons they don't and certain ways they differ from the usual.

Some people in some situations might override these mob instincts or perhaps not feel them as strongly as others, if at all. Like people who live like hermits, or the mentally ill, or the founders of movements that differ greatly from the social (mob) norm. Some people might be in a situation where their rights are significantly ignored, where they are systematically coerced and made to do certain things and these people may have the mind to realize and resist this, resulting in an abandonment of social concurrence for a great nurture of the sense of individual freedom that everyone in every part of the world MUST be entitled to. In this way, some of humankind is great. Some people in some circumstances will ignore their comfort and instincts to win something greater. Not many creatures do this.

An analogy of horse training might help, I trained them and there are similarities. The horse doesn't want to be ridden, the horse doesn't want metal shoes nailed to his feet, he doesn't want big mounds and frames of rigid wood and leather strapped to his back or a bit in his mouth but he learns to accept them through a system of desensitizing him and systematically and continuously making it harder for him to be free and do what he pleases. I slowly tell him that it's easier to listen to me than to pull away from me and meet resistance (bit, halter, spurs, etc.). So eventually this horse comes to a point where he has forgotten what it's like to rebel and will run himself to death if I asked it. Such is the nature of a herd animal.

They do the same thing to us, don't they?

[liq3]

Whoa nice answer. Didn't know that. I agree. Path of least resistance...

[Steven]

The thing with the school is all about brainwashing and the ones that run the institution are ones that have been brainwashed to a stage that they cannot realise what they are doing isn't helping the child in any way. Seriously, what you learn in primary school (grades 1-4) is easily learned by homeschooling (learning to read, type, count, draw etc), then grades 5-8 which are completely full of shit ! ! !

Everyone tells u to learn bcs it's good for u and at one point in your life you will need to know these things... again i say...bullSHIT!

Then comes high-school, a very interesting part of your teenage life: you get to meet new friends, you get more mature (more or less along with your friends), you start to learn new things about your life, you get hobbies, then you slowly start to ruin your life, ending up with making enemies (bullies, teachers... and in the end your parents - in the worst cases)

High-school is nothing more than a brainwashing system to make you think you are raising your IQ by learning things that look very important and interesting, but in the end it's just a bunch of shit... you will never remember and use ANYTHING of what you've learned in school ... unless they have succesfully turned you into one of them... a slave... of the mind... they are responsable for how you think and act in your life

EDIT: Suddendly I remembered Bill Gates, he's a fuckin genious, although he didnt go to a collage when he was in his 20'es, but last year he graduated Harvard, 30 years after dropping out... this proves he was way too smart to waste his life with the bullshit that was at the time, but in the world we live in you're not smart enough if u don't have the papers to prove it... this is what ruins the human species and our way of thinking

[Faby]

Stephen Wrote:High-school is nothing more than a brainwashing system to make you think you are raising your IQ by learning things that look very important and interesting, but in the end it's just a bunch of shit... you will never remember and use ANYTHING of what you've learned in school ... unless they have succesfully turned you into one of them... a slave... of the mind... they are responsable for how you think and act in your life

Yes, I agree.
Highschools use the excuse of "oh, you'll make a fool out of yourself if you don't know this", rather than focusing on the usefulness of the subjects they teach. What if we don't care about what others think of us? Ok, I don't know the longest four rivers of Asia, and I don't think it would make my life any easier if I would, because I have no intention whatsoever to become a teacher or a geologist. And if someone asked me that and I didn't know the answer, well, fuck them. I want to learn what I like, not what makes me look intelligent to others.


...mai esti la liceu?

[Steven]

Indeed, people should have the right to choose what they want to learn, but it's probably too late, the brainwashing has gone to a level were people consider you insane if you think the society and the system only wants to control human minds. And this is the way it works. The system only offers you a feeling of security and peace, but nothing more, in the end they OWN and CONTROL you, they got you by the balls and they can fuck with you anytime and anyway they want.

( incep a 12-a in septembrie :( ... tu ? )

[HeartofShadows]

I agree with you stephen. An example of an illusion of control they have on us is the voting system.
I had a customer ask me who I was voting for at my old job and I told him I wasn't going to bother voting and he looked at me like I was crazy and went into this bullshit about our right and freedom of choice. Anyway people talk like voting changes things and its all a bunch of bullshit.
The electoral college goes over our votes and even then we only vote for the president. We are not controlling the senate, the cabinet or anything else..

[Steven]

Voting is another illusion of security they give you, only an illusion... a feeling of safety. I hope that in time people will realise that and break free of the mind-slavery of the government... i mean it's fucking obvious!! GOVERN - to control, MENT - mind > mind controlling.

[Thotwater]

People are afraid of the consequences of refusing to go to school and, like Croush said, we go to school because everybody else is doing it. It takes guts to question tradition...but the funny thing is that once someone rebels, it's surprising how many people agree with them. Many people dislike school, but few are bold enough to rebel against it.

[Mono]

Sorry for bumping this old topic, but it's still relevant.

I don't think humans ever do anything to hurt themselves intentionally and without reason. I believe that there's always something that encourages people to do things they don't like.

As for people going to school even when they don't like it, I think there is a lot of pressure in society to go to school and get a decent education. Drop-outs are frowned upon and are viewed as less intelligent. I think fear of being unsuccessful can drive people to great lengths.

I don't really agree with the path of least resistance argument. For example, certain faiths and cultures require self-sacrifice in order to achieve a perceived benefit. The followers put themselves through large amounts of physical and mental pain, which could have easily been avoided and made the persons life considerably easier, but they carry it out anyway because of the benefit they believe they will gain.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:I don't really agree with the path of least resistance argument. For example, certain faiths and cultures require self-sacrifice in order to achieve a perceived benefit.

The bolded part is where it becomes the path of least resistance to do what the culture expects of you instead of going against the flow... even if it actually hurts, it's still "easier" than not doing it.

[Mono]

SoulRiser Wrote:The bolded part is where it becomes the path of least resistance to do what the culture expects of you instead of going against the flow... even if it actually hurts, it's still "easier" than not doing it.

It's situational, I was thinking more along the lines of someone that follows a religion under their own free will, but you do raise a good point.

I still think that humans aren't naturally drawn to the path of least resistance but it can often be the most desirable.

[okmijn22]

The system is specifically designed so there is no alternative path other than school thus it is purposely made difficult so only conforming to such abomination even at the expense of our constitutional rights must we obey.

[Loxor]

Bump it up?


People emulate things all the time, you copy things when you draw, when you type, when you speak.

Nothing to get afraid of.

[Absnt]

okmijn22 Wrote:The system is specifically designed so there is no alternative path other than school thus it is purposely made difficult so only conforming to such abomination even at the expense of our constitutional rights must we obey.

I agree but I don't believe this is intentional. Our schools may be truly, trying to do what's best for us. The originator of school, Persia I believe, set the system up to brainwash and now that we've adopted it it's flaws have seeped out and some have taken advantage of it. Even if there not exactly "Trying to do things in our best interest" they aren't trying to ruin us either. They are just going with the flow. Trying to keep us in a controllable fashion. It's just the way it's set up and the sheeple only follow the way it's set up. I think the hierarchy of idiots is keeping this system moving and everyone is trying to strengthen control of there own jobs.

What i'm trying to say is, it's not like a bunch of U.S education officials sat down and tried to set up a system that is going to ruin us.

or

Maybe they did. It would explain a lot. I like to believe that the Persian system is the cause of the problem and it's problems seeped out and caused problems in our society. Not sure.

[okmijn22]

Absentinsomniac Wrote:I agree but I don't believe this is intentional. Our schools may be truly, trying to do what's best for us. The originator of school, Persia I believe, set the system up to brainwash and now that we've adopted it it's flaws have seeped out and some have taken advantage of it. Even if there not exactly "Trying to do things in our best interest" they aren't trying to ruin us either. They are just going with the flow. Trying to keep us in a controllable fashion. It's just the way it's set up and the sheeple only follow the way it's set up. I think the hierarchy of idiots is keeping this system moving and everyone is trying to strengthen control of there own jobs.

What i'm trying to say is, it's not like a bunch of U.S education officials sat down and tried to set up a system that is going to ruin us.

or

Maybe they did. It would explain a lot. I like to believe that the Persian system is the cause of the problem and it's problems seeped out and caused problems in our society. Not sure.

Of course, no one have enough evidence to make concrete statements about the true purpose of our education, all we can do is develop assumptions from many precedent actions and results of such institution.
One main point I would like to bring up is the debate against capitalism vs socialism. From the ages of the Cold War, the US have basically defied the color of red however we could see parts of the American flag is red. The analogy I would like to present is where a socialist education fits in, in a great capitalist market like the United States. The United States is founded upon the basis of opportunity, and it is such opportunity that motivates individuals to work, that promotes quality as a reward for hard work. However, it is obvious public education is an entire monopoly, where only few corporations profit where there is no competition to insure quality. If the government really cared, the least is conforming to their own economic standards and allow education be capitalist. One may argue there is private schools however those are relatively expensive, as basic economics: a product would become cheaper through mass-production, thus why the services offered through public education is easy to pay for, yet a great profit in control of such sector.

And to your point about Prussian Education system and its origins. If it was acknowledged as a system only promoting conformity through coercion why would any 'democratic' country even think twice about implementing upon its citizens?

To the point trying to ruin us.
I agree they do not deliberately try to ruin us, I however think they do not care about us, and it is only about profit for themselves. For example Textbook monopoly.

[Ceiling Cat]

Oh crap, that. Now you can't even buy used textbooks because they make new editions each year, that have no changes besides swapping some layout. And schools force you to buy it brand new every time, as well as you can't resell them to make up for the wasted money(I was usually rewarded by parents for a year of school crap with the money I could get from selling the textbooks, now it's a no-go.)

[xyz]

Quote:"Why? I mean there could be that fact that they are your parents. You are inherently, by nature, inclined to trust them. They tell you to go to school, so you do. But what about when you realize they might be wrong? But wait. You already know they are wrong. You tell them you are bullied. They do everything they can to help, except the ever so obvious idea of taking you out of school, and homeschooling you. "

Theres no point blaming yourself.

The answer is simple. It's because you are too young. You know you are right, but you can't do anything about it.

If you tell them the truth, they will tell you more lies, criticise you for your "foolish beliefs", and actually make it worse for you than had you said nothing.

They will try to make you feel so afraid that you won't get anywhere in life. And that you have to "Trust them", after all "Why would they lie"? (they are lying).

So then what do you do? Just go into the schoolgates when your parents deliver you, and then run out when they are out of sight? That won't work.

Because you can't talk about it to the people in control, they will use that as an excuse to make you look more foolish, because now you are doing things that you won't even reasonably explain! They will lie that you are out of control and all sorts of crap.

...

The problem, is that your parents are better at lying about you, and lying about reality itself, than you could be at defending yourself from lies, no matter how pure your intentions are...

Until you reach a certain age... of 17.5 Once you hit 17.5... it's starts to become easier to go forward, than backwards, even if everyone is lying to you, as long as you are doing your best to defeat the lies.

It really as that simple. You were too young to fight back. And guess what? You get to spend most of your life being old enough to fight back.

...

Here's the worst thing. This is how... "far ahead" and cynical and abusive the system is. THEY KNOW you would rebell at that age, of "around 18". That's why the forced school system ends at 18.

Imagine you are stealing some animal eggs, and you know by a certain age, some eggs will hatch into monsterously strong birds that would claw you to pieces no matter how strong you were. Other eggs, would develop into tame snakes that would do whatever you want.

You want to suck the fluid from those eggs, but you also want to keep the snakes. And even worse, you know that if you crushed the "monsterously strong bird" eggs... it would release a shriek that would send it's mother coming for you.

But you don't care. You want to suck the fluid from those eggs as long as you can.

These aren't normal eggs though, they take 18 years to hatch. After that time, the newly hatched animals will go whatever way they wanted, and you can't drain them by force anymore.

So what do you do? Basically, you set up a system to suck the life energy from them as long as you can, while promising to "Set them free" at 18.

The eggs that develop into those "strong birds"... always knew they would be set free at 18. So they don't feel the need to fight back against needles that drain them. So they decide to wait. And once they are 18, they were set free, just as expected.

Only now they've been damaged by a system that wants to keep them weak, never strong enough to return and destroy the system. They find themselves in a planet full of snakes.

That it basically. The school system already knows the age you would break free. And then cunningly makes it look like they can't be defeated from the inside by "letting you free".

The thing is, you aren't ever free as long as society is totally wrong. The entire planet needs to change.

[xyz]

Quote:"The originator of school, Persia I believe, set the system up to brainwash and now that we've adopted it it's flaws have seeped out and some have taken advantage of it."

The school system wasn't invented in Persia. It is a state of mind, a way of being. A way of being that just has real physical buildings and people dedicated to imposing that way of being.

But people naturally want that way of being. They don't want to do the right thing, they don't want others to be free, they want to control others. The school system, right from the start, is about control. In fact... the desire to control others is what created the school system, in the first place.

Quote:"Even if there not exactly "Trying to do things in our best interest" they aren't trying to ruin us either. "

It's like saying a theif isn't exactly trying to destroy your life by stealing your life savings. He knows exactly and entirely the full damage that will be done to you, and goes on and just doesn't care.

Or the lion isn't trying to kill you, he is just trying to eat.

[Ky]

The originator of the public school system we know now (in America, anyway) is the Prussian model, not the Persian model (those are two very different things).

[Lime]

If people do something they would not like to do, nor would feel any worse for not doing, it's probably because they are either forced or it is some activity which human instincts consider beneficial for the perpetuation of the species.

[brainiac3397]

Wait a minute.
DAFUQ? Lol. And I'm wondering who the hell these people are?

*Pulls out revolver* Time to send this zombie back to the grave.

[Lime]

Ah, I appear to have missed the date.

[SoulRiser]

No worries, date doesn't really matter in cases like this (regardless of what some people will say).

[brainiac3397]

How do you stumble onto a 3 year old thread?

You know, I think it's really easy to miss the date on these threads. Or it just may be that I'm used to seeing the date somewhere else(due to the number of forums I frequented).

But I concur with Soul. Don't mind the fact I'm holding a revolver in my hand, it's just business.

[SoulRiser]

It's a sticky thread.

[brainiac3397]

Really now?

I really need to look around these forums. I just use the "view today's posts" button.