america needs to go back to how it was suppose to be

[classclown]

Newtown Wrote:

Rebelnerd Wrote:Basically, management skills. So, they're skilled in telling other people what to do. Dude, isn't the whole point of SS to resist those kind of people?

The real goal is to resist people who forcefully and inhumanely tell others what to do.

this, plus they skilled at management. its called running things properly and well. not telling others what to do.

[returnal]

classclown Wrote:

Newtown Wrote:

Rebelnerd Wrote:Basically, management skills. So, they're skilled in telling other people what to do. Dude, isn't the whole point of SS to resist those kind of people?

The real goal is to resist people who forcefully and inhumanely tell others what to do.

this, plus they skilled at management. its called running things properly and well. not telling others what to do.

I still think you are a fascist. (Godwin's Law activates now.)

[NowhereWoman]

I don't give a damn about -isms.
Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, this ism that ism.

My opinion is that big businesses and government are going to shit and they need a wake up call from the ghost of George Washington.
His three guidelines for the country in his farewell speech were
1. DON'T GET IN DEBT.
Today: FAILED.
2. DON'T MAKE FRIENDS OR ENEMIES WITH OTHER COUNTRIES. DON'T MAKE THE COUNTRY OBLIGATED. KEEP AMERICA INDEPENDENT.
Today: FAILED.
3. BEWARE OF POLITICAL PARTIES. THEY WILL CAUSE DIVISION AND PARTY WARS AND DECREASE POLITICIANS' INTEREST IN REAL ISSUES AND PEOPLE.
Today: EPIC FAIL.

So yeah, we basically need to get politics out of the government, and only put people with some FUCKIN COMMON SENSE in high-power positions.
In fact, that's the whole problem. None of these politicians have any common sense.
I mean, it's not hard, Obama. If we're out of cash, we don't loan and loan and give all of it to people who've already destroyed the economy by SPENDING like IDIOTS.
Like these companies building tons and tons of homes out in the country near my city. It's like, the economy's shit, nobody is going to buy your houses, so WTF are you building new ones? Instead, work to fix the houses that ARE built.
Ugh. Everyone's going into foreclosure around my neighborhood.
It sucks.

[classclown]

not really. if i was id be for all those manditory volunteer groups the goverment has been talking about and other have been enacting

[Rebelnerd]

Newtown Wrote:

Rebelnerd Wrote:Basically, management skills. So, they're skilled in telling other people what to do. Dude, isn't the whole point of SS to resist those kind of people?

The real goal is to resist people who forcefully and inhumanely tell others what to do.

What the hell do you call sweatshops?

[classclown]

Rebelnerd Wrote:

Newtown Wrote:

Rebelnerd Wrote:Basically, management skills. So, they're skilled in telling other people what to do. Dude, isn't the whole point of SS to resist those kind of people?

The real goal is to resist people who forcefully and inhumanely tell others what to do.

What the hell do you call sweatshops?

thats not in america

[Rebelnerd]

Perpetrated by US-based companies. Just because something doesn't happen within America's borders doesn't mean we don't bear some responsibility. (And let's not pretend that there's no worker abuse in the geographic United States, either.)

[classclown]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Perpetrated by US-based companies. Just because something doesn't happen within America's borders doesn't mean we don't bear some responsibility. (And let's not pretend that there's no worker abuse in the geographic United States, either.)

its in other countries cause all the goverment restrictions. plus atleast it aint legal here. you act like its every where here

[Rebelnerd]

Wait..what? You just proved my point.

I know they go to other countries because there are fewer government restrictions. Shouldn't that tell you something about how you can just give corporations free reign? You've just gone on and on about how laws should leave businesses alone, but now you say worker abuse is illegal as though that's a good thing. So, should the market be allowed to do whatever it wants or not? Make up your mind.

[returnal]

classclown Wrote:

Rebelnerd Wrote:Perpetrated by US-based companies. Just because something doesn't happen within America's borders doesn't mean we don't bear some responsibility. (And let's not pretend that there's no worker abuse in the geographic United States, either.)

its in other countries cause all the goverment restrictions. plus atleast it aint legal here. you act like its every where here

Doesn't change the fact that lazy-shit companies are still treating their foreign workers like sub-humans. Fuck yeah I know you'd love to live on less than a 750 dollars a year. And compared to the average sweatshop salary, that's motherfucking William Buffet.

[Milk2Go]

Rebelnerd should just be ignored altogether in this topic. He has some sick, warped view on reality. It's clear that he sees the devil in anyone who lives on a six-figure income, and that every single poor person in the U.S. is extremely, totally, 100% hardworking and is a slave to the wealthy class.

[classclown]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Wait..what? You just proved my point.

I know they go to other countries because there are fewer government restrictions. Shouldn't that tell you something about how you can just give corporations free reign? You've just gone on and on about how laws should leave businesses alone, but now you say worker abuse is illegal as though that's a good thing. So, should the market be allowed to do whatever it wants or not? Make up your mind.

laws that restrict growth. drrr. plus anyways what you consider a sweat shop they consider a good job. its not like you hear about them dieing all the time or loseing body parts.

[Rebelnerd]

BobManPerson Wrote:Rebelnerd should just be ignored altogether in this topic. He has some sick, warped view on reality. It's clear that he sees the devil in anyone who lives on a six-figure income, and that every single poor person in the U.S. is extremely, totally, 100% hardworking and is a slave to the wealthy class.

Actually, I don't. Just like I don't think that every President or Prime Minister, or even dictator, is a bad person. My problem is with the potential for power abuse. Even if the current CEO is a good person, the fact that a position with that much influence even exists will always be a danger to the people.
And since life in poverty is a terrible way to exist, most poor people are quite hardworking. They do the jobs that require the most effort (building, maintenance, assembly lines, etc.) because it's the best chance they have for putting food on the table. And since their bosses can fire them easily due to their expendability, I think comparing it to slavery's not all that far off. Not that there aren't some lazy poor people, but not enough to worry about.

Quote:laws that restrict growth. drrr. plus anyways what you consider a sweat shop they consider a good job. its not like you hear about them dieing all the time or loseing body parts.

In the modern economy, "growth" often requires worker abuse in order to keep up with other companies who are already doing it. And they don't consider sweatshops a "good" job, they consider it their only choice (not to mention the fact that if that kind of job is their idea of "good," that in itself proves how screwed up the system is!) and would gladly leave them for something better if they could.
Last but not least, your last point is incorrect. There have been many, many reports on maimings, beatings, and poisenous working environments in the sweatshops, and those are just the ones that the various countries' governments allow to reach the press.

[classclown]

Quote: They do the jobs that require the most effort (building, maintenance, assembly lines, etc.)

assembly lines hard most them got machines doing them. so omg pushing a button, fliping a switch, or pulling a lever. building maintenance greatly depends on what they are working on. plus if it a house or a office building. but how about all the people making the buildings thats hard. plus thats the middle class doing that

[kylemw13]

I hate to interrupt the who's dick is bigger contest, but this could have been a legit topic about how we used to not police the world,torture,how there wasn't giant corporations like Walmart, or how the government WILLINGLY stayed out of our lives.

[Milk2Go]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Even if the current CEO is a good person, the fact that a position with that much influence even exists will always be a danger to the people.

Excuse me, how the fuck is a CEO a "danger to the people"? A CEO doesn't have any political powers. You're acting like he has power over the life and death of people. At most, all he has is power over his company. And if you don't like working for him, you can quit.

[Rebelnerd]

Again, look at history. Corporations do indeed pose a danger to the people! Tainted product coverups (peanut butter anyone?), anti-union activity, strike busting, pollution, hazardous working conditions (with the threat of layoffs keeping them from complaining), just for a few examples. And people can't just "quit," that's a very naive way of looking at things. What if one company dominates the area, and they're too poor to travel? What if the company decides to blacklist them? I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass here. It's all happened many times before.

[classclown]

first have you seen some of these unoins. they want like 30 bucks a hour for what they do. and i dont know what you mean by peanut butter. so can you tell me

[Milk2Go]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Again, look at history. Corporations do indeed pose a danger to the people! Tainted product coverups (peanut butter anyone?), anti-union activity, strike busting, pollution, hazardous working conditions (with the threat of layoffs keeping them from complaining), just for a few examples. And people can't just "quit," that's a very naive way of looking at things. What if one company dominates the area, and they're too poor to travel? What if the company decides to blacklist them? I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass here. It's all happened many times before.

That'll probably happen even if CEOs don't exist.

EDIT: You're using the internet. That means you're using a service provided by an ISP - a company that's run by a CEO. You're probably using some kind of device to post your message. You're using a device provided by a company - that's run by a CEO.
On another note - you hate rich people, right? I hope you don't have any favorite musicians - they're probably rich from selling CDs and performing at concerts, as well as probably endorsing products. I hope you don't have any favorite actors - they're rich too!

[Linkin Park]

Well I must admit, I'm not really big into this country. But, it's better than alot. But we shouldn't be bashing the lower-class. The United States, will never be "perfect" for anyone.

[Rebelnerd]

BobManPerson Wrote:EDIT: You're using the internet. That means you're using a service provided by an ISP - a company that's run by a CEO. You're probably using some kind of device to post your message. You're using a device provided by a company - that's run by a CEO.
On another note - you hate rich people, right? I hope you don't have any favorite musicians - they're probably rich from selling CDs and performing at concerts, as well as probably endorsing products. I hope you don't have any favorite actors - they're rich too!

So...that's the way it is and we shouldn't try to change it because we can't live without movies and internet? Dude, I don't think that actors and musicions should make that much money. I don't think that a handful of huge corporations should run all the media in this country, including the internet. That's why I go to sites like this to try and work with other people who feel the way I do. That doesn't make us sellouts, it means we're smart enough to use the system against itself. We're not going to beat the status quo by turning Amish. I'm not really sure what your point is here.

[Swift]

This thread is full of nothing but childish arguments.

Sorry, but it had to be said. The only one who has displayed any sense is possibly Newtown, but his posts seem different from the ideology of Capitalism he has said to believe. Granted, others in this thread have made sense, but it has turned into who's dick is bigger argument.

[returnal]

Swift Wrote:This thread is full of nothing but childish arguments.

Sorry, but it had to be said. The only one who has displayed any sense is possibly Newtown, but his posts seem different from the ideology of Capitalism he has said to believe. Granted, others in this thread have made sense, but it has turned into who's dick is bigger argument.

I'm not what you would call a real capitalist, but I'm nowhere near a communist, although some of my thoughts appear to be Socialistic, but it should be said that although the government should definitely have control in the economy, it shouldn't be too less nor too much.

[Milk2Go]

Rebelnerd Wrote:[...] I'm not really sure what your point is here.

If you really hate CEOs as much as you say you do, it makes sense that you would refuse to use their products as a form of protest.

Even if you're using their products to destroy them, you're still using them.

[aaaaaaasd]

MOAR FIGHT

Seriously, watching BobManPerson and rebelnerd fight is strangely entertaining.

[Rebelnerd]

Ok, I'm a bit confused now. When no debate goes on that consists of more than "OMG ur so stoopid1," people say that the forums are in decline and some even start leaving. But when we try to have an argument with actual, well, arguments, you say it's just a bunch of childish crap.
So should we be arguing on the forums or not? You can't have both.

[Liquid]

Rebelnerd Wrote:Ok, I'm a bit confused now. When no debate goes on that consists of more than "OMG ur so stoopid1," people say that the forums are in decline and some even start leaving. But when we try to have an argument with actual, well, arguments, you say it's just a bunch of childish crap.
So should we be arguing on the forums or not? You can't have both.

Some arguments are good, besides, if we all agreed on everything we wouldn't have much to talk about, would we?

A battle with Rebelnerd vs. BobManPerson is something worth watching while eating popcorn.


(Personally I think everyone in the world is wrong though, all three systems: Communism, Capitalism, and Socialism/Fascism, are flawed, due to their basic premises and are slowly becoming outdated like Mercantilism before them, and "Fair" Specialization before that. Maybe I'll post my own ideas in a while.)