Enough is Enough

[CrayolaColours]

NEIN DU

[AWOL]

MADIRINACHTRICHTINDIENST.

[The Desert Fox]

Oh, Jew!

[AWOL]

[Schitzophrenia]

It's Alright man, I Do know how you feel. When i was i middle school kids beat me up, made fun of me, and one of my teachers called me a faggot. So i Respect you for pouring your heart out in this. Now. Go out there and invent a water-powered car.

[formerpissedoffmemberguy]

mrtuesday is a De evolved monkey. SoulRiser has more morals in her little pinky then an insane brainwashed school puppet like him could ever dream of posessing. mrtuesday,be a good little monkey and go polish your old school tunes cd collection like a good little De evloved retard, and leave evolved expression to those of us who posess an intellect.also, mrtuesday's forum profile is like his personality. No color, no personality, and NO friends. Can you say LOSER? Insert your humiliated Fucktard face here --- > : (

[Nat_99]

If adults like you have a vision of tortured children growing to be nothing but one of millions of office workers, living groundhog day in a dead end low salary job, spending the day in a cubicle staring at a flickering screen, you are terribly mistaken, and I have one thing to say: . Seriously, I'm not exactly the class dunderhead myself, but I sometimes feel like hurling molotov coktails at that stupid building. I'm not very daring, I wouldn't dream of taking a PSP into school or anything like that, but I know what it's like to be so bored you find yourself racing a toy car around the table and my best guess is that you don't. You forgot. You see, if someone goes to school and leaves remembering, say, 10% of it, you are hardly going to feel the trapped, despaired, almost claustrophobic feeling of sitting through ANOTHER boring lesson, listening to the same crap they have been telling you for the past year, feeling a stiffy growing underneath the table because you have been stuck there for 50 minutes (forget I said that if you are a girl) and desperately wondering if you will make it to the next lesson.
Because we do, and most of us would rather be somewhere we are going to get valuable skills, not help some unenthuseastic teacher give you good marks so they can buy thier next meal. I hate school. No complications. That's kids opinions of school stuffed into a badly schooled but well educated nutshell.

[aaaaaaasd]

why is your post in the best of SS

[The Desert Fox]

BaronVonStrangle Wrote:why is your post in the best of SS

[.Manicrose.]

Quote:We don't need to spend 35 hours a week in a fucking prison just to know that 2+2=5.

Couldn't resist

[Negative]

Nat_99 Wrote:If adults like you have a vision of tortured children growing to be nothing but one of millions of office workers, living groundhog day in a dead end low salary job, spending the day in a cubicle staring at a flickering screen, you are terribly mistaken,

Since when were white collar jobs "low salary"?

[DUBAS]

mrtuesday, don't take this reply as offensive but take it more as my way of thinking about your post. I'm only trying to express my ideas here and I will hear you out, but read.

Changing school might be hard but it's not impossible. What's closer to impossible is eliminating school completely. Probably a lot of people here will feel satisfied if the educational system is changed. Because for at least me, that's all I'm asking for. Change in the educational system as in more dynamic types of lessons and classes for example. Also the fact that they are now making us memorize instead of learn, the fact that teachers try to influence their opinions on us and some other bad aspects. If all these things are changed for the better in a way you can actually LEARN something from school then it will feel as mission accomplished for me. It being put that way, it doesn't sound so impossible now, does it?

I'll respect your views though, if that's really what you think. But just wanted to get that out there.

Anyways, thanks to all for the read.

[Stadium]

I read every word of your post and I have only one thing to say to you.

FUCK YOU

[Stadium]

(05-02-2009 09:59 AM)mrtuesday Wrote:  [quote="Newtown"]Yup, sounds like a failsafe to me, eh?

There have always been insane people. In every school shooting case, there are drugs, poor parenting, and a multitude of other things involved. If these monsters weren't shooting up schools they'd be shooting up libraries.

No. I think about violence and death because of school. Before I got to high school, I wasn't depressed, or stressed, or anxious and irritated at everything. Now I have fantasies about going to school with a gun and killing all those stupid motherfuckers-the teachers that don't really give a damn, the students that sit by while their peers torture each other and make each other commit suicide, all of them-that force me to hate myself and my life and everyone else in this shit hole of a world. Before I went to high school, I didn't understand how someone could be so hateful that they could kill people they barely knew. But now I understand...Am I just crazy? Maybe I'm just one of the monsters you talked about. But somehow I doubt it, and I'm 100% convinced it was the fucking 'education' system that made me this way.

Sorry for the double post.

[Levio_Sah]

Dude, mrtuesday is a troll. The switch of tone and pacing between the person's "history" and their drastic "revelation" is totally unrealistic. Though obviously it fooled some people. Why are we still talking about this?

[Stadium]

(11-15-2011 05:32 AM)Levio_Sah Wrote:  Dude, mrtuesday is a troll. The switch of tone and pacing between the person's "history" and their drastic "revelation" is totally unrealistic. Though obviously it fooled some people. Why are we still talking about this?

I have no idea.

[The Desert Fox]

People, this thread is borderline-ancient. Just reading through it, and my newfag-stupid replies, makes me feel like a mega-oldfag.

[Stadium]

But he's not a troll, he's a composite, and people do really think the way he does and it makes me sad.

[SoulRiser]

Split to Random Crap.

[Darksoul]

What are you working for 12 years of life? A worthless piece of paper that just isn't significant as society has made it.

[xydougie]

(05-02-2009 09:39 AM)NowhereWoman Wrote:  Sir, congratulations.
You've found a way to live with something many people have found difficult; school.
There are many ways people try to get through the hardships of school.
Yours is to accept it.
That's fine, okay? Ignore the flaming, your opinion is worth listening to.
Thank you for being so polite and smart about it in your first post and not just being 'AI GO 2 SKOOL I GET EDUCATEON, etc'.
Just know that there are some people, myself included, who disagree, and that's okay too.
Please accept our opinions and beliefs about school, and we(well, those of us who can talk about opposing viewpoints without screaming at people) we will accept yours.

I just want to address a few things that you mentioned. Note: I'm just stating my opinions.

Quote:I presented the shrink with an eloquent, well-researched argument about how school fails to equip our children for the future, how true learning can only result from dedicated autodidactism, how the emphasis on testing detracts from our innate love of learning for its own merit… She diagnosed me with depression and wanted to put me on TCAs. I declined.

“You can’t change the school system,” she told me.

This is getting into youth rights, in my opinion.
Would an adult who didn't like his job or was extremely stressed about it be diagnosed with depression and asked to take medication?
No, they'd be told to weigh the pros and cons of their job, and then decide whether to stay or quit.
Why should it be any different with children and school? After all, I've been told many times 'while you're a child, SCHOOL is your JOB.'
And there was always a voice in my head saying: then why aren't I getting paid?
If i told them this, they'd say, 'You're getting an education!'
Yeah, I don't think so. The only thing I get from school is stress. Stress from trying to get good grades, worrying about bad grades, stupid kids, stupid teachers, this, that, not having enough time, that lab I forgot at home, if my shoes are okay for dress code, la dee da.
Even when I get good grades, I freak out if I get a C on a test.
Nothing I do in school can lower the stress. Nothing I've tried makes me want to get up at 5 in the morning and go someplace I dislike to be told to do this or that by adults who don't know me. It's like having a job you hate and not being able to quit.

Quote:I had deluded myself into thinking that I was being psychologically molested every day because I was simply too lazy to do my schoolwork and I was looking for an excuse, an easy way out.

We ARE looking for a way out. But not out of work, out of the constant stress school puts us through.
And why are we lazy for not wanting to do work we didn't choose to do?
I mean, think of the saying 'if you don't vote, you can't complain.'
If you chose not to vote for the candidate you wanted, you can't complain if he doesn't win. You didn't work to help him, so you don't have the right to bitch.
But wait a minute...we didn't sign up for 12 years of our life in school. In other words, we didn't even have a CHANCE to vote. (which we don't, actually) So how dare they tell us not to complain, to do the work they tell us to without even fully explaining things to us or letting us have a choice?
This arguement seems trivial, I know, to someone who doesn't have our opinions, but I'm trying to get you to understand our point of view here.

Quote:all in all school's primary aim is to help you.

Well, we didn't ask for their help, and we mourn for the years wasted in a system we didn't understand, don't respect(after all, they don't show any respect for us, even when we give them chances), and only causes us confusion, stress, and pain.


I

Quote:In hindsight, school wasn't bad after all. I wouldn't be who I am today without the memories, the friendships, and most importantly the things I learned along the way. The idea that the average person is not only capable but motivated enough to pursue education of its own merit is romantic but honestly false. Homeschooling/Unschooling inevitably causes more problems than it solves, and I'm glad that my parents continued my public education.

Oh my god, really? I can't learn nothin on my own?
(throws guitar out window, burns books, runs back to school)
"TEACH ME OH GODS OF KNOWLEDGE!!!"
^sarcasm.
The idea that the average person is not only capable but motivated enough to pursue education of its own merit is romantic, plausible, and VERY possible but unlikely in a world where supposedly learning of any sort ends at 18 or 22.
I've learned my most valuable lessons outside of school, from playing guitar, reading, trips with my family, learning how to argue without flaming on the internet, etc.
Not saying school is completely useless, I mean, i make my friends there(only because school iss the only place other than home I go every day)
If you are right, than Abraham Lincoln was an imbecile, Bill Gates is a retard, and Albert Einstein was a worthless lazy drop out. You know how Albert Einstein got into the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology? He dropped out of high school and STUDIED OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL.
Note: not ALONE, not WITH NO HELP, but OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL.
We can all learn from others who have experience, but wouldn't a physicist be able to teach use more than a physics teacher? I mean, has a physics TEACHER actually worked on physics experiments outside of the classroom? Is it his living? Does he love the subject? Is it his passion?
Maybe. Maybe not.
Both possibilities are plausible, I'm just saying that I can't learn from people who hate their job, and I can't do my 'job' well if I hate it myself.


Thanks for your thought-out post, it's good for us to have an opposing viewpoint, it makes us more humble and makes us reexamine our beliefs.
Mine have stayed the same, but thanks for not being a flamer.






EDIT!
The above was writtern BEFORE reading your second post, Killjoy. It's sad to me that, for having such a well written first post, your second was extremely immature and basically consisted of insulting our intelligence while pushing your beliefs on us. I am keeping my post above on this thread simply because it's good for someone to have feedback that isn't completely fueled by anger.
But I don't appreciate your comments to the other members of the board, and I AM angry about that, but I'd like to further an intelligent peaceful conversation, if you would stop acting like we need to be saved and that you and school are the only way anyone can ever have a happy life.
AND STOP INSULTING PEOPLE.

This.

[aCol]

I have learned all I know about destillation from books, books, more books and articles on the web of people who know something about it, before it even was mentioned in school. In fact, if it weren't illegal in germany to destill your own alcohol OR essential oils [you could make alcohol in that destill, and then you wouldn't pay the taxes...yay!], I'd already do it. I would already had built a destill for that matter.

You know what? I educated myself for this knowledge. I know what a reflux-destill is AND how it works AND how to build one. I know that I have to destill with a slowley but constant rising temperatur so the methanol gets out first, not to be mixed with my desired ethanol. I know what law forbids me destilling on my own, I know its legal to make wine in my country, I know it is legal to make a few liters of beer per year in my country, and i god damn KNOW i can't do anything until 2017; then the law ceases to exist.
And when I forget something, I look it up on wikipedia, or in the webs, and then make conclusions and check them. I know that I am basically poisoning my body with alcohol, but I alsk know its effect if its given in homopathic doses.
I know most about drugs, although I do not take them, because I read about it in LdT ("Land der Träume" land of dreams, a board where (ex) drug users post their experiances with different substances.). If I wouldn't know what side-effects ritalin can have, and what effects it intends to have, I wouldn't desire to try it. NO, not taking it constantly, only small doses over a short time period. Nothing else.
If I wouldn't have read, checked, read again I would be dumb as fuck. School might have tought me to read, but my parents also would have. Still I think it is good to learn reading. I learn trigonometry now, and I am ahead of class sometimes, because I LEARNED to EDUCATE MYSELF. I don't necessarly need a teacher, I see a teacher as a too powerfull person I am able to direct questions to. I don't need a teacher. My brother, parents and friends could all teach me.
People don't like to be educated any longer by others because they have bad experiance from school. They experiance that if they fail, they fail ultimatly. If I wouldn't have started programming, I would not endure till the second error. I'd stop at the first, because school tought me this: "You have to be sucessfull on the first try. Even if you are better next time, you cannot master this subject". And thats bullshit! I failed so often, and, lucky me, I found a fond programmer a bit younger than me, way more successfull and he was my mentor.
I have LEARNED to think on my own. Even if school claims to do so, its not true. They only tought me "shut up and accept. Follow the rules. Respekt Authority. Do not discuss anything if you think its unneccessary. We are your masters. Don't rebel, or we WILL punish you".
Yes, I have learned a lot in school. But seriously, I would know more when school wouldn't take away my energy to educate myself. I know the fun it makes to LEARN, to THINK. All those who only memorize (scientific, mathematic, etc.) rules will never have this delightful feeling of free thinking - they aren't useless, but they miss out on so much that could come in handy when in a job.
There is a saying, "You can educate a fool, but cannot make him think". I don't think it is true. It is only true when the "fool" never learned to stop memorizing and start thinking.
Progress comes from people who think. It comes from people who are lazy, unpatient, agressive, intelligent, whatever, the important part is, they all have something in common: they think. Could you imagine somebody, who only has memorized facts his goddamn life to say: "Hey, these horse-drawn carriages are slow, uncomfy and uneffective, they need a horse you have to care about, etc. There could be a way of using that new technology I heared about to erase these flaws.", then to think of it again some day and say "Yes, this motor works. Sure, I use petrol, and I have to make it first, but this invention here does not require a horse. I can just let it stand in the garage. It has it flaws, but it is better then a damn horse-drawn carriage. And I can work on these flaws, making my invention way more effetice than those carriages could ever be."
I am pretty sure those who invented so many modern things thought like that, not exactly, but roughly. I can't imagine somebody who "just accepts it like it is" is even ABLE to do something like that.

A educated mind might be educated, but still a fool, with very rare chance of starting to think. A thinking mind does not necessarly have to be educated, so it also can a be a fool, but it has chances to educate itself. A educated and thinking mind can still be a fool, but chances is high that it makes its contribution to the world, starting something new and exciting.

There is even a list of people who tought them selves, much of the great minds in science, which are now tought in school, had infact no way to go to school - they started out with what they had, and with creativity, education and thinking they discoverd something revolutionary for their time.

Now tell me again that teaching yourself stuff is a romantic fantasy! I would teach myself much more if school wouldn't take up so much of my time, I have to study school law because I am "disobediant", a overly negative word for "Does not put up with everything and thinks on his own", so I have to protect myself by memorized (or written down ) knowledge.

[sneaky]

WOOT!! Sorry for bumping this ancient thread, but after spending about an hour reading through it, I couldn't resist but to post a reply. I found this thread to be rather enlightening. Normally on SS everyone agrees on most of the things Said since we have pretty much the same viewpoints about school. But this guy supposedly being an 'ex SS member' gave everyone an opportunity to fight for what they stand for, and test their sincerity.

Something i found funny and pissed me off at the same time was when the guy said, "What obscene level of power? Kids attend school, do some work, then go home," in attempt to support his fairly Ridiculous claim that we aren't mindless robots being controlled by tyrants, and that school is actually...GOOD? In reply I say: WTF? I wish school was that simple! The way it REALLY goes down is as follows. Wake up from your less than recommended hours of sleep, Go to school, do pointless work, go home(this is where he stopped).....do HOMEWORK for another 2-3 hours, sleep, wake up, go to school, if you haven't completely done your homework, your teacher takes away your only lunch period and makes you do the work + more, RINSE and REPEAT.
He also had a hard time understanding that we aren't (well at least I'm not) trying to completely abolish school, but to REFORM it, as someone else had already said.

So yea.....sorry again for bumping this thread, don't get mad at me OK!

PS. I just signed up at SS maybe a week ago, so I couldn't post when this thread was alive so I had to post now :D

-sneaky

[shishiogen122]

Someone please close this thread..

[LOON_ATTIC]

no

[Aya]

11 pages!

[Dirtbikemike]

Whether this guy is a troll or not, I'd have to agree... We've lost one guys...

[shishiogen122]

(03-30-2012 10:50 AM)Dirtbikemike Wrote:  Whether this guy is a troll or not, I'd have to agree... We've lost one guys...

Does that automatically mean that he's right?

[Dirtbikemike]

(03-30-2012 01:17 PM)shishiogen122 Wrote:  

(03-30-2012 10:50 AM)Dirtbikemike Wrote:  Whether this guy is a troll or not, I'd have to agree... We've lost one guys...

Does that automatically mean that he's right?

No I was definitely not agreeing with him, I was agreeing to inb4 we've lost one.