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The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

If you want to write about your experiences in school, you can write on our blog.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with. My contact details are here.

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Enough is Enough
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Colin Offline
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Post: #181
Re: Enough is Enough

Amortisatie Wrote:
Leon Kinotolian Wrote:
SoulRiser Wrote:This thread is actually a goldmine of information for my project I'm planning.
Oh? I'm interested.

Same
Do tell.

PLEASE, TELL US JUSTIN
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05-06-2009 01:13 PM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #182
Re: Enough is Enough

Probably a huge video/article about debunking school myths.

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

~~

Good fortune follows upon disaster;
Disaster lurks within good fortune;
Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
05-06-2009 10:18 PM
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psychopath Offline
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Post: #183
Re: Enough is Enough

I just wanted to respond to this.

Quote:kids would be faced with the nigh insurmountable task of teaching themselves everything they'll need to know in life without ample guidance, and we'd end up with complete anarchy. Making mistakes is the best way to learn, but one in a matter so catastrophic as one's education when it can be easily avoided is like putting a baby on a lit stove just so that he can learn how to not burn himself.

The baby analogy doesn't make sense, because the small mistakes people make while learning freely are not "catastrophic".

Also, the absence of school doesn't mean that everyone will be teaching themselves. There are other alternatives to school and once school is gone these alternatives will most likely prosper.

On top of that, what most of us want here is not the destruction of school, but an end to mandatory schooling.
05-06-2009 10:33 PM
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Amortisatie Offline
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Post: #184
Re: Enough is Enough

Quote:kids would be faced with the nigh insurmountable task of teaching themselves everything they'll need to know in life without ample guidance, and we'd end up with complete anarchy. Making mistakes is the best way to learn, but one in a matter so catastrophic as one's education when it can be easily avoided is like putting a baby on a lit stove just so that he can learn how to not burn himself

This

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05-06-2009 10:48 PM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #185
Re: Enough is Enough

psychopath Wrote:once school is gone.

Uhm, as much as I'm for this anti-school thing, I can't imagine school going away any time soon. Perhaps in a few hundred years, but not earlier.

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

~~

Good fortune follows upon disaster;
Disaster lurks within good fortune;
Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
05-07-2009 12:40 AM
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Swift Offline
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Post: #186
Re: Enough is Enough

School will never go away.

:(

"I heard a joke once. Man goes to doctor says "I'm terribly depressed". Doctor says "I know just what you should do. Poliacci the clown is in town, go see him, you'll be cheered right up." The man bursts into tears. "But Doctor, I am Poliacci." Funny joke. Roll on snare drum. Everyone laugh."

-Rorschach


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05-07-2009 01:15 AM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #187
Re: Enough is Enough

No, but it'll be over for us soon. Hard to think of those who just started school, or are going to start school in the future.

*weeps for those nameless and cursed children*

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

~~

Good fortune follows upon disaster;
Disaster lurks within good fortune;
Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
05-07-2009 01:41 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #188
Re: Enough is Enough

Faby Wrote:*weeps for those nameless and cursed children*
Stop weeping and start yelling.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
05-07-2009 05:10 AM
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mrtuesday Offline
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Post: #189
Re: Enough is Enough

L Wrote:Learn by doing, not sitting down and forcing things into your mind. I can actually remember having to sit there and just stare at the flash cards I was made to have by a teacher, because I was going to be tested. Instead of sitting there and forcing it upon yourself, it should happen naturally, like something you kinda "Pick Up" along the way. What I mean by that is, you are doing a math problem. 7 X 9 for example. You sit there, and try to figure it out, if you can't you refer back to the table. You move onto the next problem. Eventually, you pick up that 7 X 9 = 63. When I learn things like that, I normally don't forget them, and thus, I have learned.

When I have to sit down, and force information into my head, I forget them. Ask me what last week's "Spelling Words" were, even though I recieved a 100% on the test, I couldn't tell you.

There's no need to pick it up along the way if you already know it. School is about preparing people for the future. Learning mathematics from a comprehensive course that covers everything we have collectively decided is necessary to live life to its fullest is not only more efficient but makes more logical sense than telling people to figure it out as they go along.

Schools need to teach reading, math, science, et cetera. If you concede that there are things every person should know, it only follows that we should teach these people all together so that they can all reap the benefits of education.

People may not realize that they need to know something at the moment, but that doesn't mean that they won't need it in the future.

The fact that you didn't retain the information that the school imparted to you is your fault, not theirs. Education is a shared responsibility between the student and the teacher.

Wouldn't the entire process have made more sense if in school you were already taught the multiplication tables for when you would need them later on rather than learning EVERYTHING by ear?

Pieman Wrote:I SEE WHAT YOU DID THAR.

Every time we pose a point that Killjoy has no answer to, he completely ignores it.

I'm sorry that I can't respond evenly to every person in this topic. I'm all alone in this corner; should anyone care to join my side of the argument, be my guest. I'm not consciously trying to ignore anyone, I just can't dedicate the time to respond to every post in this 13-odd page long topic.

HALCYON DREAMS Wrote:Shit, I'm not saying that school brainwashes people. I'm not saying that school isn't beneficial, as people do learn there. What I AM saying is, it's not the best way to get an education. People should be educated in a much wider range of subjects, and be taught to appreciate different forms of culture more. I mean, there's more than the few rudimentary things that school teaches you out there. And putting people in a school environment where it's next to impossible to really develop as a human being is a damn waste of humanity. We're putting people out there who haven't been taught to question the things they've seen on TV, who haven't ever tried to hold their beliefs up to criticism, who've barely seen what a healthy human relationship looks like.

Lazy people who deliberately choose to be ignorant will not change, regardless of what the school throws at them. For the rest of us, school has much to offer.

I challenge the notion that it's impossible to develop as a human being in a school environment. School is just an exaggerated microcosm of the real world but with an underlying intention to teach. Like the real world, there are some bad people and unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it. That said, we can't let a few rotten apples spoil the whole bunch.

School makes an honest attempt to teach people critical thinking skills, but whether people react is their own problem. In my Social Studies class, the teacher would constantly remind us to consider point-of-view and bias in everything we read, regardless of whether it was for the class or not. If there's one thing I can say with deep conviction, it's that school will have a profound positive effect on people if they put the necessary effort in.

Now, like anything else, some schools are better than others. I was fortunate enough to attend some of the better ones. I'm all for reforming the ones that can't measure up. Whether they have gang problems, drugs, or just bad teachers. The crux of it is that we can't and shouldn't fight the system; we need to fight the weak links.

As it stands, schools are a fact of life. I happen to think that they're a necessary fact of life, but some would disagree. I understand where you're coming from, but it's better to help them rather than hurt them. Many school administrators, teachers, etc. are in it for the right reasons. If we're going to improve education, we need to cooperate. And if that is this website's true aim, I agree wholeheartedly.

Quote:I mean, yeah, school teaches you some basic things as far as math, science, English, etc. goes. But it leaves out so very much. And that's harming our society as a whole. We need to make sure that students leave school not feeling institutionalized, but enlightened. Not faceless and uncared for, but like they have a real value as a person. Not tired and weary of absorbing new information and learning, but ready and willing to contribute to society as an actual human being, instead of just as a worker.

School has to leave out some things. It has to cater to everyone, and it does a better job than we give it credit for most of the time. The subjects it doesn't cover, students can and should pursue on their own. School's aim is to teach everyone the basic concepts required to lead a full life, and it succeeds.

People who see themselves as nothing more than a worker have a striking self-esteem deficiency. Schools can't do everything, but they do try. Guidance counselors, pupil personnel services, the list goes on. The education system has been taking care to help its students' psychological well being.

Schools have to equip people with the skills they need to live in today's world. For most people, that includes getting a job so that you have the resources to do what you want to do. They aren't trying to create mindless workers. They're trying to create self-sufficient, smart people capable of making their own decisions.

Quote:Our society needs innovation and free thought, which is something that should pervade our culture instead of being restricted to the very educated. I mean, we've got a school system that does a fine job of churning out people into the workforce, but they're neglecting to help their students develop in other ways which are just as important to a well-functioning human being.

I certainly agree that free thought and innovation are important. But the complete evolution of our culture must start with us; not with them. To say that they're churning people out is, as we both know, ridiculous. People coming out of the school system have the basic knowledge to pursue whatever avenues they want to in life. They just haven't gotten there yet.

Schools are required to teach academics. Spending more time on character ed, citizenship, singing Kumbaya, whatever, will only make its primary focus that much more difficult. Students will inevitably develop those other traits; we all did. It's just a matter of time. People mature at different speeds, it's part of what makes us all different.

Also, yay for Huey Freeman.

assaultmedic Wrote:So teachers arent part of this huge conspiracy to brainwash us, that doesnt fix the situation. The problem is that most teachers are not prefect. While some are very sucessful with the normal teaching methods and actually interest their students, other teachers end up boring their students and making them forget anything they have learned. For example, my robotics teacher has an open ended class where he gives us a challenge and we figure out different ways to fo that. This class is very exciting to most of the students in it. We have learned skills in programming, mechanical engineering, and electronics, all very useful skills. Meanwhile my biology teacher gives long note taking sessions, poorly explains how to do labs, assigns too much work in too little time, and acts bitchy towards her students. A majority of her students hate her and have a hard time trying to pass her class and forget anything she teaches. It is not some conspiracy but instead poor teaching methods that are hurting us. Telling us "just to man up and deal with it" is a dumb idea. Tell that to the people that lose a third of their income every year to our poorly run government. They would most likely ignore you and keep on complaining about taxes they have to pay.

I think we're all in agreement that good teachers need to be rewarded for their efforts and bad teachers need to be penalized. The main issue here are the damned teachers unions that greatly over-complicate this process. The cornerstone of a free, capitalist economy is that those who do well are rewarded and those who fail aren't. It's survival of the fittest; there needs to be competition for there to be success. With unions messing with this formula, we get the tenure-protected fuck-ups you read about in the news.

Quote:But saying that school introduces you to all walks of life is wrong. School introduces you to whatever they teach and whatever choices they give you. Most students have to take certain classes which are a state or district requirement. After those classes they are only given a few choices on what electives to take. Sometimes the choices are restricted and the elective offerings are far from "all walks of life". The bell-schedule is not bad depending on your point of view, the test are though. If the test is made by the teacher, and if the students are actually interested, they get a real assesment which is not a bad thing. If the test is made by the district or state it is not a real assesment. The test may cover things not taught in class, may be very poorly written, or subject to human/governmental errors. These kinds of tests cause unnecessary stress and do net create a true assessment of the student.

Again this hearkens back to the problem of some teachers simply being incompetent. But then, why don't you guys fight the NEA rather than the school system itself? It just confuses me.

I happen to think that a well-thought-out test is a good learning tool. But as we are all well-aware, tools can be misused. It's the teacher's job to use them properly, and when they fail they need to be punished.

I think that state tests and the whole NCLB thing is a load of bollocks. That said, the school system itself shows great promise. We just need to let it shine through.

Quote:It is also your choice to consider what is an illusion. Illusion is just a word that can be attached to anything to give it a negative meaning. It his choice to consider the school system an illusion.

relativist fallacy...

Quote:This reaction was based on many previous incidents where people made a post like yours. People have made those kinds of post and have later been caught to be faking it or trying to actually troll the board. The person you quoted, as far as i know, is not some paranoid skeptic thinking nothing is real. We also dont believe we are fighting the forces of evil, we simply wish to see an improvement in the education system because we are not interested by what we are taught. The supposed merits of school are going to college were you can get a diploma and then get a good job. Not everyone is interested in this "merit" of eventually making lots of money.

I see.

I just happen to think that we need reform, not a complete restart. As for the matter of money, I agree. People who go about life just looking for financial gain are misguided and wasting the precious little time they have on this planet. That said, we all need some money to live. Not everyone is going to become a neurosurgeon and spend seven years in college. That's why we have the choice of our post-secondary education. It's meant to be tailored to the students' specific career path. In that respect, it's perfectly acceptable.

Now, whether colleges charge too much is a different matter.

Quote:Deciding whats good for you doesnt mean you have to live in a bubble. He can if he wants andit doesnt have to be in the desert. He was not trying to demote civilization either. He just stated that he decides whats good for himself. He did not say anything about anarchy or chaos. Also anarchy does not mean chaos or lack of civilization, it means absense of government.

Yes, but to live in a society we all need to make some sacrifices. Most people consider it well worth the trade-off. I know that anarchy doesn't necessarily lead to chaos, but the problem is that more often than not it does. Without a governing body explaining to people what practices are permitted and what aren't, other people will seize control and decide those things in its place. Then we end up with a dictatorship and it all goes to hell.

Quote:Once again his response is based on the belief that you are trying to troll the board. The hostility youre seeing should have been expected. What would you expect to see if a democrat tries to promote his party at a republican convention, or if a religous person preaches to athiests. Always expect hostility when arguing the opposing argument to someone.

I would have been totally alright with some people saying "Well, I disagree. Still, thanks for your input. I'd love to explain why we think x, y, and z." The whole "stick your finger in an electrical socket" thing and TrueAnarchist being a retard just caught me off guard.

Meh, I was always a fan of my school's Debate Club. I'm a sucker for this kind of thing.

SoulRiser Wrote:Why, on a site aimed at people who are not being adequately served by public schooling, would we not be prescribing homeschooling and the like? That wouldn't really make much sense. And that isn't even entirely true, we have a whole section on dealing with school if you can't leave as well, and that section was there first. I only added the alternatives stuff later, I figured it wasn't necessary for a long time because there were so many other sites with that focus. But now that we do have that info, yes, I am emphasizing it. Why? 'Cause a lot of the kids who visit this site actually don't know about that stuff. Sure, they may have heard of homeschooling or maybe some of the other stuff, but most people who come here are not actually looking for that stuff. So I make it stand out so they know about it.

The main problem is that kids who are just having issues in school and not issues with school will get the wrong idea. That's the only point I was making. Not everyone is cut out for autodidactism. Some people just don't have the motivation, the resources, the ability, the direction.

The Avenger Wrote:Killjoy has realized that his points cannot counter ours and is merely ignoring our superior contradictions. Yes

*facepalm*

psychopath Wrote:The baby analogy doesn't make sense, because the small mistakes people make while learning freely are not "catastrophic".

Also, the absence of school doesn't mean that everyone will be teaching themselves. There are other alternatives to school and once school is gone these alternatives will most likely prosper.

On top of that, what most of us want here is not the destruction of school, but an end to mandatory schooling.

The fact is that small mistakes add up. People may not end up with the skills that their friend who went through school have. If you aren't good at math and it annoys you, are you really going to pursue it of your own volition rather than learning about things you find easier? Of course not. Then the problem arises that you may not have the skills you need later on, and by the time you realize it, it's too late.

Yes, there are other alternatives to school. Whether they are viable is another discussion entirely.

I understand that many of you don't want school to be mandatory. Nevertheless, it's better to equip everyone for the future with the skills that acclaimed educators have deemed important to success later on in life rather than hope that people will assume the responsibility themselves.

Faby Wrote:No, but it'll be over for us soon. Hard to think of those who just started school, or are going to start school in the future.

*weeps for those nameless and cursed children*

You are making the assuredly false assumption that they will find school as unbearable as you did. Let them make up their own minds before swooping in to save the day.

Calling school a curse is melodramatic and unnecessary.
05-07-2009 09:13 AM
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Pieman Offline
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Post: #190
Re: Enough is Enough

Hey look..he came back.

" I never knew until that moment how bad it could hurt to lose something you never really had. " ~From the television show The Wonder Years
05-07-2009 09:58 AM
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aerftghyjk Offline
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Post: #191
Re: Enough is Enough

Killjoy Wrote:There's no need to pick it up along the way if you already know it.


So, If we already know something, we just don't listen to it? So we are wasting our time? That or I just read it wrong.
05-07-2009 10:10 AM
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mrtuesday Offline
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Post: #192
Re: Enough is Enough

sio Wrote:
Killjoy Wrote:There's no need to pick it up along the way if you already know it.


So, If we already know something, we just don't listen to it? So we are wasting our time? That or I just read this wrong.

I meant that it makes more sense to be taught math in school because it's just something everyone should know. It's silly to wait until you're doing your taxes to realize that you can't multiply or divide and then have to go learn it from scratch. It's just better to be prepared.
05-07-2009 10:18 AM
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aerftghyjk Offline
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Post: #193
Re: Enough is Enough

But is school honestly the only place to learn all that stuff?
05-07-2009 10:25 AM
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Milk2Go Offline
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Post: #194
Re: Enough is Enough

Killjoy, what makes you think you're right? What makes you think the education system is right?
05-07-2009 11:04 AM
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Amortisatie Offline
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Post: #195
Re: Enough is Enough

Quote:The main problem is that kids who are just having issues in school and not issues with school will get the wrong idea. That's the only point I was making. Not everyone is cut out for autodidactism. Some people just don't have the motivation, the resources, the ability, the direction.

So the answer to that is to force them into a school? Some people need time to figure out what they want to do and how they want to do it. Forcing them into something will just make them hate it, and before you know it they have lost the momentum at trying to find what they want to do.

What the motivation at school is, I am not too sure Grades? For Workaholics and Perfectionists maybe. Personally my motivation is to advance out of that hellhole so I can do what I want to do without being interrupted, such as 4 of my teachers who constantly say, "you have to do as I say, you have no choice", I facepalm, then go back to my desk and faceplant.

What type of resources? Books? The Internet?
If you live in a town or city or near a town or city, they usually have a library of sorts. In the poorer countries instead of building schools, Why not build a library complete with internet connection?

As for ability, I think everybody is able to learn, I mean people learn how to walk and talk don't they? And the human brain can hold memory exceeding 4 Terrabytes.

Direction? If you mean people telling you what to learn... Then I disagree, as I said before, everybody has different paces, you can't force them to go faster than they can or slower than they can handle. Everyone has a natural pull to learning. Do people in the middle east REALLY need to learn how to read? IMO, no, most of them communicate by talking, and when was the last time a desert herder needed to read a book? If they don't want to learn, don't force them, it will come to them eventually.

And clarify the "in school" and "with school" please?

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“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
― Neil deGrasse Tyson
05-07-2009 11:06 AM
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The Desert Fox Offline
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Post: #196
Re: Enough is Enough

Hey, he finally replied to one of my posts. Reply to this: I've learned more in World War II by myself than EVERYTHING they've force-fed me in school. Yeah. I don't need to know advanced algebra to be a WWII historian. It's like giving a size XXS to a 200 lb guy and saying "You need these clothes to live" and throwing away all the clothes that fit him. And read the article Amortisatie linked to.

This is my 400th post! Yay!

Hidden stuff:
(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
CrayolaColours Wrote:That post owned. TDF wins post of the year.
Faby Wrote:
krissy Wrote:dessert fox
Mmm, flambéed vulpine.
"There is no enemy, there is no victory, only boys who lost their lives in the sand."
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05-07-2009 03:11 PM
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Leon Kinotolian Offline
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Post: #197
Re: Enough is Enough

Killjoy Wrote:There's no need to pick it up along the way if you already know it. School is about preparing people for the future. Learning mathematics from a comprehensive course (1) that covers everything we have collectively decided is necessary to live life to its fullest is not only more efficient but makes more logical sense than telling people to figure it out as they go along.

Schools need to teach reading, math, science, et cetera. If you concede that (2) there are things every person should know, it only follows that we should teach these people all together so that they can all reap the benefits of education.

People may not realize that they need to know something at the moment, but (3) that doesn't mean that they won't need it in the future.

The fact that (4) you didn't retain the information that the school imparted to you is your fault, not theirs. Education is a shared responsibility between the student and the teacher.
1. So, I need to know trigometry to enjoy a full life revolving around acting, swordplay, vocals and roleplaying. The logic in that idea doesn't exist.

2. There are things every person should know. However, the government, and schools especially, can't be left to accurately pinpoint what things must be known. Aside from common sense and advanced body functions, each person has no personal knowledge requirement; they learn what they desire, and what is necessary to advance in their field of work. A lawyer must know law; an actor must know drama; a baseball player must know how to run, pitch, catch, and swing a metal bat without releasing and pegging someone in the head.

3. Again, this implies they will need to know a subject completely irrelevant to their interests and/or needs.

4. So I should be at fault for not retaining pointless information force-fed to me ineffectively by half-rate teachers, whilst stuck in classrooms full of other stressed-out students who're distracting everyone, myself included, and not have the SLIGHTEST reason to believe that school may have been involved with that? Words fail me.

Killjoy Wrote:As it stands, schools are a fact of life. I happen to think that they're a necessary fact of life, but some would disagree. I understand where you're coming from, but it's better to help them rather than hurt them. Many school administrators, teachers, etc. are in it for the right reasons. If we're going to improve education, we need to cooperate. And if that is this website's true aim, I agree wholeheartedly.
No one can decide what a fact of life is, let alone a necessary one. To do so is arrogant and blasphemous (for the religious people) on a level beyond toleration. Compulsory schools are still a new concept, considering how long the world's been around. There's also my point brought up earlier about the myriad of reputable names of the past, all of whom taught themselves.

Killjoy Wrote:School has to leave out some things. It has to cater to everyone, and it does a better job than we give it credit for most of the time. The subjects it doesn't cover, students can and should pursue on their own. School's aim is to teach everyone the basic concepts required to lead a full life, and it succeeds.
Success is perception, plain and simple. A full life, similarly, is perceived differently by everyone. You can be poor and live in a halfassed apartment, but enjoy what you do not for a living, but as a hobby, and have success. In this same condition, you can have a loyal and devoted lover, and have a full life. You don't need to be rich and the head of a corporation to have a successful and complete life; that's just a load of bull.

Killjoy Wrote:It's survival of the fittest; there needs to be competition for there to be success. With unions messing with this formula, we get the tenure-protected fuck-ups you read about in the news.
Amen.

Killjoy Wrote:Yes, but to live in a society we all need to make some sacrifices. Most people consider it well worth the trade-off. I know that anarchy doesn't necessarily lead to chaos, but the problem is that more often than not it does. Without a governing body explaining to people what practices are permitted and what aren't, other people will seize control and decide those things in its place. Then we end up with a dictatorship and it all goes to hell.
I make few sacrifices for society. So long as things aren't completely in the shitter, I have no incentive to further break my back for a bunch of pricks in Congress... As for governing bodies, I believe they should be small, and mostly just the representatives of the country itself. There should be a guiding principle to, well, guide the people on the right path, which would include education. There might be a slight bit of anarchy if we changed to that idea, but if successful, oh, the positive changes that would occur.

(( For Dynasty Warriors fans, yes, I ripped that idea from Cao Cao. That's because I like it. ))

Killjoy Wrote:The main problem is that kids who are just having issues in school and not issues with school will get the wrong idea. That's the only point I was making. Not everyone is cut out for autodidactism. Some people just don't have the motivation, the resources, the ability, the direction.
Most kids have issues with and in school. They just don't realize which is which sometimes. For the most part, those of us who've been here at least a month can tell between the two, and help newcomers figure things out easier. We can also help some discover that autodidactism is doable for them.

Killjoy Wrote:You are making the assuredly false assumption that they will find school as unbearable as you did. Let them make up their own minds before swooping in to save the day.

Calling school a curse is melodramatic and unnecessary.
Considering how many dissenters there have been since compulsory school's conception, it certainly won't shock me if the next generation hates school as much as we did. With each new generation, the numbers grow.

*Tentaclerape*
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and by pinch of salt i actually mean you need to build a fucking salt processing plant so you have enough salt to dispell the bullshit
05-08-2009 12:12 AM
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Post: #198
Re: Enough is Enough

I was gonna post this here, but then figured it might be better off in a seperate thread...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14798
Thinking about this thread made me come up with that idea. Please respond there instead of here.

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05-08-2009 01:31 AM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #199
Re: Enough is Enough

Okay, I'm gonna write this post and then hopefully will never return to this thread again.
First of all, Killjoy, I am sorry if I was aggressive in my anterior posts, it was not my intention.
Second, I hope you understand I did not mean to try to change the way you think. Maybe you are right. Maybe school is good and I am stupid for seeing things the way I see them. Anything's possible.

Now, on to the purpose of my post. I would be extremely happy if you would never quote my posts again. I cannot recall whether I said this earlier, but this subject, and this whole debate with you is something that does not matter to me. You have your views, I have mine, and that's that. Now, probably you're wondering why I am so stubborn and do not wish to see things your way, the right way.

The reason is simple: I trust my feelings and experiences more than those of others, and above all, half-arsed apologetics. I know, I feel school is bad. I have spent 10 years of my life in a place I hated, in a place I wished to see destroyed, in a place where all my days were dedicated to boredom and asinine lectures. Now, I'm sure you'd tell me to be more open minded, and try to like school. Trust me [or then again, don't if you don't want to, it's all the same to me], I have started many a day going to school happy and thinking "well, maybe today I'll learn something interesting". I would be a fool to deny that there WERE days when I enjoyed school, and there still are now. But if I were to compare the number of days I enjoyed and the number of days I didn't, guess which would win?

Please, learn to accept that there are people with different views from your own, and try to not push your views onto others. That is, and I have stated this before, the biggest flaw in the system: it tries to impose itself on people, denying them of any alternatives.

Accept that there ARE people who CAN learn without school, and that there ARE people who in a bright spring's day would rather spend time learning about biology than mug people on the streets, without it being forced upon them by some teacher or forthcoming test. [tip: replace biology with any other subject you wish, whether it be maths, writing, photoshop, 3d modelling, poetry, or whatever else]

Also, I'm not one against learning as many things as possible, but there are people who may be more interested in learning how to make a 3D model of a woman than the structure of an atom. There's nothing wrong with that. My opinion remains unchanged: school's approach to making kids interested in a variety of subjects is flawed, because they are forced upon them, rather than made attractive and interesting.

It's so easy to make this system better: simply remove coercion. And if you want, though this is supplementary, make subjects as interesting as possible.

That is all I have to say.
*slams thread's door*

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Perhaps there is no end.
05-08-2009 02:02 AM
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Post: #200
Re: Enough is Enough

So, this thread is over?

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(11-27-2011 01:00 PM)psychopath Wrote:  
(11-27-2011 10:52 AM)Efs Wrote:  Our Army is more professional than Amerika. Smile
Except ours isn't allowed to have guns
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05-10-2009 11:21 AM
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Post: #201
Re: Enough is Enough

I guess. But if we all talk about how much we want to drop out, maybe he'll come back out of some selfless desire to save us.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
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05-10-2009 01:15 PM
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Post: #202
Re: Enough is Enough

Rebelnerd Wrote:I guess. But if we all talk about how much we want to drop out, maybe he'll come back out of some selfless desire to save us.

Man all the things I would do to drop out, I would be saving my life if I did that instead of going to some boring old place where some retard lectures me on unimportant subjects then punishes me when I start doing something off topic such as reading a book I like on something i'm interested in instead of being force fed stuff I have no care in and follow my dreams instead of being brainwashed and processed in a place I have been priveleged to go to where I have no rights and no choice in what I learn and yet teachers still want me to bow down to them and do their every whim and obey their every command whereafter they still yell at you even if you are doing something they want you to do because you are doing it wrong and they are so perfect and gods themselves.

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05-10-2009 01:43 PM
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Trar Away
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Post: #203
Re: Enough is Enough

Amortisatie Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:I guess. But if we all talk about how much we want to drop out, maybe he'll come back out of some selfless desire to save us.

Man all the things I would do to drop out, I would be saving my life if I did that instead of going to some boring old place where some retard lectures me on unimportant subjects then punishes me when I start doing something off topic such as reading a book I like on something i'm interested in instead of being force fed stuff I have no care in and follow my dreams instead of being brainwashed and processed in a place I have been priveleged to go to where I have no rights and no choice in what I learn and yet teachers still want me to bow down to them and do their every whim and obey their every command whereafter they still yell at you even if you are doing something they want you to do because you are doing it wrong and they are so perfect and gods themselves.
Amen.
05-10-2009 04:50 PM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #204
Re: Enough is Enough

Amortisatie Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:I guess. But if we all talk about how much we want to drop out, maybe he'll come back out of some selfless desire to save us.

Man all the things I would do to drop out, I would be saving my life if I did that instead of going to some boring old place where some retard lectures me on unimportant subjects then punishes me when I start doing something off topic such as reading a book I like on something i'm interested in instead of being force fed stuff I have no care in and follow my dreams instead of being brainwashed and processed in a place I have been priveleged to go to where I have no rights and no choice in what I learn and yet teachers still want me to bow down to them and do their every whim and obey their every command whereafter they still yell at you even if you are doing something they want you to do because you are doing it wrong and they are so perfect and gods themselves.


I tried reading that aloud, but I got blue-faced when I reached the second row Razz

Just kidding, nice post.

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

~~

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Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
05-10-2009 06:10 PM
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Amortisatie Offline
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Post: #205
Re: Enough is Enough

Faby Wrote:
Amortisatie Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:I guess. But if we all talk about how much we want to drop out, maybe he'll come back out of some selfless desire to save us.

Man all the things I would do to drop out, I would be saving my life if I did that instead of going to some boring old place where some retard lectures me on unimportant subjects then punishes me when I start doing something off topic such as reading a book I like on something i'm interested in instead of being force fed stuff I have no care in and follow my dreams instead of being brainwashed and processed in a place I have been priveleged to go to where I have no rights and no choice in what I learn and yet teachers still want me to bow down to them and do their every whim and obey their every command whereafter they still yell at you even if you are doing something they want you to do because you are doing it wrong and they are so perfect and gods themselves.


I tried reading that aloud, but I got blue-faced when I reached the second row Razz


Just kidding, nice post.

Tanks Smile

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05-11-2009 01:40 AM
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Post: #206
Re: Enough is Enough

The Avenger Wrote:Hey, he finally replied to one of my posts. Reply to this: I've learned more in World War II by myself than EVERYTHING they've force-fed me in school. Yeah. I don't need to know advanced algebra to be a WWII historian. It's like giving a size XXS to a 200 lb guy and saying "You need these clothes to live" and throwing away all the clothes that fit him. And read the article Amortisatie linked to.

This is my 400th post! Yay!

On a random note, i would prefer to be a tudor historian, it just seems more interesting to me.

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"What is the task of higher education? To make a man into a machine. What are the means employed? He is taught how to suffer being bored." – F W Nietzsche
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05-11-2009 06:35 AM
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Thought Criminal Offline
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Post: #207
Re: Enough is Enough

Obvious troll is fucking obvious. Gtfo my ss dipshit. We don't care about your stupid mid-guided view of things. Go bitch about our site to your friends at MAPSU troll
05-11-2009 12:22 PM
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Trar Away
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Post: #208
Re: Enough is Enough

thought criminal Wrote:Obvious troll is fucking obvious. Gtfo my ss dipshit. We don't care about your stupid mid-guided view of things. Go bitch about our site to your friends at MAPSU troll
I think he got the message a long time ago. That is, he's gone now.
05-11-2009 03:14 PM
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Thought Criminal Offline
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Post: #209
Re: Enough is Enough

Holyshit! I didn't realize how many pages there was. Lol nevermind Biggrin
05-11-2009 03:17 PM
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Dark Soul X Offline
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Post: #210
Re: Enough is Enough

Killjoy Wrote:Hello there, everyone. I used to post on this forum under the name Psionicsavior and I'd like to share my experience since then.

I never much liked elementary school. Come to think of it, I hated elementary school. I was the quiet, “I’ll just raise my hand so the old lady at the front of the room will shut up and I can get back to reading” type. Pretty common, I'm sure.

Finding it difficult to relate to anyone, I resorted to immersing himself in books and video games to escape the drab realities of my everyday life. School couldn’t hold my attention very long. Though I got good grades, I felt that the entire thing amounted to little more than scholarly masturbation and didn’t take it very seriously.

I probably learned more from my time playing video games than I ever did in Middle School. Problem solving, lateral thinking, how to bust a cap in a Balla’s face during a drive-by, games were an all-inclusive course of study. After all, you never know when you’ll need to be prepared for a zombie invasion.

Basically my life.

Quote:Time went on, and by the time I reached Seventh Grade I was convinced that school a heartless institution hellbent on the gradual infantilization of the public.

I shared my qualms about the educational system, toting a copy of THE UNDERGROUND HISTORY OF AMERICAN EDUCATION with me wherever I went. John Taylor Gatto fascinated me as a young boy. How did it never occur to these “educators” that learning in the real world is more effective than any amount of textbook work? My parents noticed my lack of enthusiasm about the whole school thing, and took me to a psychologist.

And their move was narrow-minded bullshit.

Quote:I presented the shrink with an eloquent, well-researched argument about how school fails to equip our children for the future, how true learning can only result from dedicated autodidactism, how the emphasis on testing detracts from our innate love of learning for its own merit…

“You can’t change the school system,” she told me. I assembled a three and a half page long treatise about how I wanted to pursue homeschooling, but my parents didn't take me up on the offer. I could look forward to five more years of school; lucky me.

The political activist that I was, I joined school-survival.net and started passing out flyers at my lunch table, with some basic information about compulsory schooling’s deeply-ingrained flaws. I caused a bit of a stir, but my fire eventually died out. I had homework to do, after all.

You still could've fought on though. Homework is only a slight hindrance.

Quote:However: as I matured I came to realize that school was indeed worth the time investment.

And it all goes to Hell from here.

Quote:I had deluded myself into thinking that I was being psychologically molested every day because I was simply too lazy to do my schoolwork and I was looking for an excuse, an easy way out. As much as I hesitate to say it, many of the people on this forum now seem to be in the same predicament. The sheer fact is, I was depressed. I wasn't thinking straight.

But if it actually made you depressed, then you KNOW that it's bad for you in the long run.

Quote:Homeschooling/Unschooling inevitably causes more problems than it solves, and I'm glad that my parents continued my public education.

Do you mind telling me HOW homeschooling/unschooling causes more problems then it solves? I'm really starting to facepalm here.

Quote:I'm sure that there are some schools, particularly poorly-funded ones, that are hellish and terrible. But extrapolating that to every single building is unfair. Many of my teachers were bright, funny people who cared about their students' well-being. I was just too foolish to see it at the time.

I know, not EVERY school is bad. But the system makes MOST school intolerable.

Quote:It's not nearly as bad as some make it out to be. Making flyers and protesting are the wrong way to go about bettering your own education.

That's because you were dedicated to REVOLTING, not LEARNING. You could be learning more on your own instead of wasting time on revolting. But revolting CAN lead to better changes in the long run. You just gave up too quickly.

Quote:I admire many of your efforts, specifically Soulriser's, to bring scholarly pursuits back into the public eye and quell teenage suicide. But you could be concentrating your resources in a more productive manner. Show kids that school is not the bogeyman. Homework can be irritating at times and the idea of a bell-schedule is counter-intuitive, but all in all school's primary aim is to help you. If you can stop being anal-retentive and get over its quirks, you will find that it can be one of the best times of your life.

It may be compulsory, but it's for your own good. Just man up and go with it. Society isn't trying to brainwash you. Trust me; I used to be one of you guys.

Okay, I agree AND disagree with you here. Yes, school was (at least it's said to) made to help you, but it's system is one of the worst for educational purposes. School is forcing students to learn what the system wants them to learn, NOT what the students want to learn. Of course students are gonna lay off the work, because often times, it's on subjects that are irrelevent to their interests.

I'll admit to you, I did learn some things with computers in school, because I have a love of technology. But, I only learned a FEW things in school. My dad is good with computers, and outside of school, thanks to his help and the assistance of the internet, I've gotten better with computers than my teacher, quite possibly. If not now, I know I will soon.

And as for society not trying to brainwash you, it is. Society's being brainwashed by the government, and society is trying to force you to become one of the drones. While this isn't true in every case, the cases that ARE true are pretty rampant. If you want proof and you don't want to take my word for it, ask the other members here. They'll have stories of oppression.

Had I met you here before, I could've thought you were cool. I have respect for you, because you're giving an intelligent argument, but you gave up too easily. That's the only problem I see in you so far.

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07-15-2009 08:15 AM
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