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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #1
What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

The more I try explaining and writing about "anti-school people who like learning," the more I find myself looking for a good, re-usable word for this group.

Why a word? It's unnecessary when talking amongst ourselves, but it becomes very useful when trying to get the public to see us as a legitimate class of people who are worthy of consideration. It's crazy that, as individuals, we are often not taken seriously, just because what we're about isn't well-described by any of the stereotypes in people's minds ("honor student", "lazy dropout", "troubled youth", "school phobic", "gifted but learning disabled," "whining teenager," "druggie," "ADHD," "just difficult.") There's no positive or even neutral category in most people's brains for someone who resents forced schooling AND wants to and does pursue learning on their own terms AND is not doomed to "flip burgers" AND therefore should be listened to, not punished or treated for being this way. In order for things to change, this concept must be created!

Ultimately, there should be books, articles, and/or films about us that most teachers, psychologists, and even the general public know about, so that when they meet or hear about someone with these characteristics, instead of being confused, dismissive, or angry, they can say "oh, it's one of THESE interesting creatures." And likewise, when someone who has felt that way for years, maybe feeling alone and never really understood by their friends, parents, and teachers, can say "I'm one of THESE interesting creatures."

The thing is... the term "anti-school" doesn't work for this purpose. Some people hate school out of pure laziness and disinterest in learning, and that's not who I'm referring to. Some people like aspects of school -- maybe they have a good teacher, or college is acceptable whereas they hated high school. Maybe they're even a good student and want to stay in school but they still basically question the whole thing and still learn outside of school and see beyond its limited purpose. And "anti-school" is too negative.

Maybe there doesn't even need to be one word. Maybe a phrase. Maybe multiple words or phrases. Maybe, just an idealized character that people could make reference to.

Ideas?
05-04-2009 12:49 AM
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Post: #2
Re: what hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Free-learner?

woah dude
dude woah
05-04-2009 12:54 AM
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Darthmat Offline
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Post: #3
Re: what hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I.N.E (in need of education).

I highly suggest Mobb Deep's albums The Infamous and Hell on Earth, if you have not listened to it yet.
05-04-2009 01:10 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #4
Re: what hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Smart people who require a more flexible education because they feel stifled in school?
Would be nice if it was shorter. Though noobs would probably respond "Why don't you take more advanced classes?" ... it needs to tackle that as well.

This is a great idea, we need to come up with something everyone can agree on, and then I'll go rewrite the entire site to use that term all over the place so that it spreads moar.

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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05-05-2009 11:43 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #5
Re: what hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

The term actually doesn't need to mean anything on its own. We could make something up that sounds interesting, like "indigo children" (note: this actually exists), people will get curious, Google it, and we just make sure we have some results for it that explain it nicely. Easily done by making a page on Wikipedia for it, and hope and pray they don't delete it.

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"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein
"I'm pretty sure there's a lot of beauty that can only be found in the mind of a lunatic." - TheCancer
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05-06-2009 11:36 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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Re: what hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Yeah, exactly... a made-up or re-defined word might be the best thing. Like "indigo children", "queer", "millennials" (people born ~1980-2000), etc.
05-07-2009 10:51 AM
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Aviator Offline
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Post: #7
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Quote:Smart people who require a more flexible education because they feel stifled in school?

Spwramfebtfsis

Hmm... I'm liking the first part there -

Spwarm (looks like Swarm... with a P. Let's be the Spwarm!)

Febtfsis

Hmm...

Spwarm Febtsis

Order of the Spwarm Febtsis.

Sounds kind cool. But nobody would ever remember it. None

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05-08-2009 11:31 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #8
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Hahaha. It's a start. Biggrin
05-08-2009 12:09 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #9
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Quote:Spwarm Febtsis.
Sounds like some kind of fungus or something. Laugh

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." - André Paul Guillaume Gide
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination." - Albert Einstein
"I'm pretty sure there's a lot of beauty that can only be found in the mind of a lunatic." - TheCancer
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05-09-2009 09:22 AM
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Post: #10
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I'd try free-learner, but what the hell do I know...

woah dude
dude woah
05-09-2009 09:41 AM
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psychopath Offline
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Post: #11
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Aviator Wrote:Order of the Spwarm Febtsis.

Lol I love this.
05-10-2009 10:59 AM
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random_name Offline
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Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

psychopath Wrote:
Aviator Wrote:Order of the Spwarm Febtsis.

Lol I love this.

The first bit sounds too much like spam =]

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05-10-2009 09:28 PM
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Desu Offline
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Post: #13
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Pro Education Anti School = PEAS

RIP GORE GOROTH

He was an hero. He will always be remembered.
05-13-2009 12:19 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #14
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I like PEAS. Just sounds a bit funny when applied to people... "he's a PEA...S" Giggle

I like the "free-learner" idea, I just think it could be easily open to misinterpretation... 'cause they're not free, but they wish they were.

self-determined learner?
One problem with "learner" is that in some countries they use that as a synonym for "student" or "pupil"... which could be a bit confusing for some people. But I can't think of a better word to use there.

self-determination: Determination of one's own fate or course of action without compulsion; free will.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination_theory

"intrinsic motivation" sounds good.
http://giftedkids.about.com/od/glossary/g/intrinsic.htm

I'm finding interesting links here. bbl

EDIT:
Made new topic with links and stuffs... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14911

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it." - André Paul Guillaume Gide
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05-13-2009 01:55 AM
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NowhereWoman Offline
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Post: #15
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I like free-learners the best.
Short, easy to remember, to the point, not a stereotype, etc.

An it Harm None, Do What Ye Will
An it Harm, Do Only What Ye Must


Lighten up! This life was made for experimenting, making mistakes, falling on our faces, and standing up to do it all over again.
Live for Learning.


Carla Franklin may be a whore. She may be a wonderful, kind, moral woman. Seeing as I don't know her personally, I cannot know for sure. However, I find her actions (suing Google, requesting the personal info of her critics, getting angry over random internet idiocy that she should ignore and be bigger than, trying to get this site in trouble because of a few users' commentary on the situation, etc.) pretty ridiculous and unwarranted. If she didn't want people to to be talking about/judging her, well 1. that's impossible, she's a human, and 2. she shouldn't have been a model or agreed to be on film. AND 3. she DEFINITELY shouldn't have sued Google and made all this fuss over a few random idiots whom she probably won't ever know expressing their opinion. Mmkay? MMKAY.
05-14-2009 12:45 PM
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Post: #16
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

What about independent thinkers or is that in already in use?

"We forfeit three-fourths of ourselves in order to be like other people."
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06-05-2009 10:43 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #17
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Maybe independent learner?

I think that works, though it doesn't encapsulate all of the above. Well, it'll take more than a phrase, anyway, to encapsulate all that. It'll take explanations, examples, a re-training of the average person's stereotype.
06-05-2009 02:01 PM
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Post: #18
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I think independent learner implies that we only like to learn by ourselves, but I think most of us just don't want to be forced to learn something in a certain way.
06-05-2009 03:58 PM
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Post: #19
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Man I saw this thread and I had been thinking about the exact same thing the last few hours.

I really couldn't think of anything other than "free-learner" either. Maybe if we call ourselves Sexi Monkeys. And replacing the "y" with the "i" shows how serious we really are.

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09-14-2009 09:47 AM
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Post: #20
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

How about Students (or people) Against Inefetive Teaching Techniques...Or "" Againt Terrible Schools

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hewhodestroysall Wrote:Honestly I never figured the point of the esrb.
Point is you can't censor reality.
U.S. Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas, Tinker v. Des Moines (1969) Wrote:In our system, state-operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students in school as well as out of school are "persons" under our Constitution."
Rebelnerd Wrote:Human rights are being violated by US law enforcement. This is what the media is here for, you're supposed to be the watchdogs! You're supposed to stand up for the downtrodden, not belittle them as though all their problems amount to nothing more than some angry glares toward parents and sabotaging their computers.
I've seen so much shit done to youth and for some reason, this has made me angrier than I've felt in years. Abuse and oppression happens all over the world. It's a terrible reality of modern society, but we've all accepted that it happens and we're doing what we can to fight it and build a better world.
But this...this mindless, condescending disrespect toward people who have no legal voice with which to defend themselves, this reduction of parents' betrayal into a cheap crack about kids being computer-savvy...it's like watching a surgeon joke about life insurance while his patient bleeds to death on the operating table. The media's job is to protect society from oppression and they've drawn a clear line between the people worth protecting and the people that don't matter. How can they people sleep at night?

You're a journalist. DO. YOUR. FUCKING. JOB.

(04-28-2010 08:17 AM)Liquid Wrote:  Laws never seem to help people fight School. Laws only matter if the students are braking them...

(12-03-2011 07:40 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Solution to all these problems: don't fuck people you can't negotiate with in a civilized manner.
(02-09-2012 02:14 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  The only solution is democratic self-paced education where students can excel in what they are good at and work on what their not if necessary, AT THEIR OWN DAMN PACE IN THEIR OWN DAMN WAY.



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10-13-2009 06:35 AM
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Loxor Offline
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Post: #21
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Is it a Jackal?

Anything that ever happened or will... one condition, it has to be amazing.

I gave her wings but she don't wanna fly no more.

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time
10-13-2009 08:42 AM
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SurvivalWarrior Offline
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Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Iam, i hate school (place of learning) like learning new things and mastering complex things and iam doing good, but iam becoming crazy in this prison they have put us all in!!!!! the things they teach needs changing, real training needs to be given to staff better training and make less sarcasam in the classroom, the goverment need to go back to step 1.
10-14-2009 04:27 AM
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Post: #23
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

SurvivalWarrior Wrote:Iam, i hate school (place of learning) like learning new things and mastering complex things and iam doing good, but iam becoming crazy in this prison they have put us all in!!!!! the things they teach needs changing, real training needs to be given to staff better training and make less sarcasam in the classroom, the goverment need to go back to step 1.
They were looking for a word, not asking you.

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hewhodestroysall Wrote:Honestly I never figured the point of the esrb.
Point is you can't censor reality.
U.S. Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas, Tinker v. Des Moines (1969) Wrote:In our system, state-operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students in school as well as out of school are "persons" under our Constitution."
Rebelnerd Wrote:Human rights are being violated by US law enforcement. This is what the media is here for, you're supposed to be the watchdogs! You're supposed to stand up for the downtrodden, not belittle them as though all their problems amount to nothing more than some angry glares toward parents and sabotaging their computers.
I've seen so much shit done to youth and for some reason, this has made me angrier than I've felt in years. Abuse and oppression happens all over the world. It's a terrible reality of modern society, but we've all accepted that it happens and we're doing what we can to fight it and build a better world.
But this...this mindless, condescending disrespect toward people who have no legal voice with which to defend themselves, this reduction of parents' betrayal into a cheap crack about kids being computer-savvy...it's like watching a surgeon joke about life insurance while his patient bleeds to death on the operating table. The media's job is to protect society from oppression and they've drawn a clear line between the people worth protecting and the people that don't matter. How can they people sleep at night?

You're a journalist. DO. YOUR. FUCKING. JOB.

(04-28-2010 08:17 AM)Liquid Wrote:  Laws never seem to help people fight School. Laws only matter if the students are braking them...

(12-03-2011 07:40 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Solution to all these problems: don't fuck people you can't negotiate with in a civilized manner.
(02-09-2012 02:14 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  The only solution is democratic self-paced education where students can excel in what they are good at and work on what their not if necessary, AT THEIR OWN DAMN PACE IN THEIR OWN DAMN WAY.



Don't Board the Censor Ship
11-14-2009 03:58 AM
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Vatman Offline
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Post: #24
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I really adore this idea, and am ashamed that I had not found this thread earlier. I have this idea, not for the word mind you...but the means to find the word. To take a lost word and reinvent it. I will look for some words that I find to be possibilities for redefinitions and post them here...feel free to do the same. http://phrontistery.info/clw2.html

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helctic adj 1658 -1658 (although this word doesn't mean schooling necessarily we can modify it to drag out education.)
acting to drag or draw out

sparsile adj 1891 -1891 (We can modify this word as well, and call its followers Sparsites or something of that matter)
of a star, not included in any constellation

stiricide n 1656 -1656 (School is the house, we are icicles....or more over; we are stiricidal)
falling of icicles from a house

surgation n 1688 -1688 (this one is a joke of course)
erection of the penis

tollation n 1688 -1688 (While some may fall into schools braainwash, we are tollators, we tollate it...)
act of lifting

tornatil adj 1661 -1661 (We are made upon a wheel of change, the Tornatilians)
made with a wheel; turned on a wheel

vinitorian adj 1656 -1656 (Being not merely part of the vine, we stand out as Vinitorians...)
of or pertaining to tending vines

auturgy n 1651 -1656 (This definition actually works perfectly; Members of the Auturgy unite)
self-action; independent activity

caprizant adj 1730 -1736 (We may beat irregularly but our souls cannot lie caprizant, we are the Caprized afterall)
of the pulse, uneven or irregular

Some cupid kills with arrows, some with traps.
11-15-2009 02:45 AM
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Post: #25
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Nice vatman, I like the last one the most Thumbsup

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11-15-2009 03:30 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #26
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Awesome stuff there Vatman. Yes

I like these:
tollation n 1688 -1688 (While some may fall into schools braainwash, we are tollators, we tollate it...)
act of lifting

tornatil adj 1661 -1661 (We are made upon a wheel of change, the Tornatilians)
made with a wheel; turned on a wheel

auturgy n 1651 -1656 (This definition actually works perfectly; Members of the Auturgy unite)
self-action; independent activity

I like Auturgy the most though. It's not even in my dictionary. Even Google has very few results for it:
http://www.google.com/search?q=auturgy

And the cool thing about this is, if we use this method to find the word to use, it shows that we are not just uneducated rebels without a cause - we actually looked up some history to find our word. XD (well, one of us did)

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11-16-2009 06:53 AM
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CrayolaColours Offline
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Post: #27
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

Awww, I want to make up a word...

Oh well, free-learner it is then?

I still say we make up a word, then people will have to look it up, instead of assuming. Even if "free-learner" is an epic idea.

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11-16-2009 07:59 AM
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Vatman Offline
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Post: #28
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I like autugry as well, there is something empowering by redefining a word. I feel as though if we were to choose the word, nay idea behind autugry, we can make it into a banner a self discipline of sorts. We can make a wikipedia entry for it, a urban dictionary...hell we could send it to Webster to be redefined.

If we were really trying to start a movement, this would definitely be a good first step.

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11-16-2009 05:18 PM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Post: #29
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

I have been looking for a group like this all my damn life. Sorry for not introducing myself, but what the hell.

Anyway I also wondered what should the name be. But looks like you already did a good job at this, as Auturgy(Auturgian for naming a person) fits quite nicely as a word describing one of us.

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11-26-2009 03:12 PM
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academic prisoner Offline
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Post: #30
Re: What hates school, loves learning, and isn't doomed?

goin with the free-learners idea here just cause it sounds like we don't want to be tied down by a strict set of rules (IE the free part) and we want to pursue an education (IE the learner part).

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11-27-2009 08:57 AM
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