What's best for you is always what you don't want...

[Incollegenow]

Since we're kids, this is the message we get. Be it from our parents, the media, school, religion, directly, or indirectly, the underlying message is that if it's something you want, it's bad for you, but if you don't like it, you need it.

Lets start with food. How many of us loved candy as kids? *Raises hand* hell I still love candy, but it's bad for us. How many of us hated the thought of eating vegitables? *raises hand*, yet these were the foods we were supposed to eat. How unfair is this? It's like the less adverse a food is, the less healthy it is. Why oh why does nature have to work that way?! We got this message from our parents, and from those kids shows.

But it's not just food that works this way. It's so many other things. For instance, how many loved to watch TV as a kid? Yet, that was always the thing that the schools frowned upon and my parents eventually set up limits, saying that I needed to do more than watch TV. And then there's religion, it's the greatest offender of this mindset. Any sacrifice of something you like is pleasing to god, for no reason other than the fact that you're denying yourself pleasure. But look at all the things that are considered sins. In a nutshell, if it can lead to pleasure or reduce suffering, it's probably a sin. Children are expected to unquestionably obey their parents, they are taught to feel guilty and undeserving of anything, they are told that any pleasure is a "sinful trap", they live in fear of eternal damnation, and are just uptight people who'se god is a holy dickhead.

I'm rambling, but the bottom line is that this mindset makes you feel guilty for doing anything you like. From parents and teachers, kids are made to feel that their interests and dreams are meaningless, and only boring, repetitive bookwork is important. Here's a list of some of the things I've heard or been told that fed this negative mindset.

"It's not all about what you want."
"We all have to do things we don't want to"
"Life isn't fair"
"You could have it worse"
"You should be grateful"
"In the 'real world'"
"No one ever said life was a cakewalk"

Most of these things could apply to schooling. A lot of the time, when I was questioning why I had to do something, these were the answers I would get. Just look at the responses from proschool people on this board. How do they justify all the tedious work? By saying "it's just preparing you for the challenges of the real world". In other words, it's tedious work for the sake of tedious work. This mindset was drilled into my pysch to the point where I'd assume that I had it easy whenever I would get to do something I would want, even if it was something minor. Here are a few examples...

When choosing movies, I would assume that the one movie I wanted to see would be the one that everyone else wanted to see least. I would always assume that the restaurant I wanted to go to would be the last places my friends or family would want to take me, thus I would feel guilty for choosing. The message I got "IF IT'S SOMETHING I WANT, EVERYONE ELSE DISAPPROVES, BUT IF IT'S SOMETHING I WOULD RATHER NOT DO, EVERYONE ELSE APPROVES". The sad thing is, there has been so many situations where this actually applied. What the hell?

*whem, long post*

[classclown]

i see what you mean. the bigest examply like you said is religion. they allways say if you like somethnig dont do it and sacrafice it to god. but if you dont like it do it anyways and sacrafice your suffering to god. its pretty stupid.

[Amortisatie]

Hmm, after thinking about this, I have just realized what you are talking about and how it is a reality in my life.

It so seems that what someone else wants you to do is always more important than what you want to do yourself. Is it not our life? Our short little lives which are wasted away by doing things that others want us to do and having little to no time to do what we want to do.

"All men who live, die, but not all who die, live"

It's the horrid truth, yet everyone seems to deny it, save us of course. I really don't know what to say, i'm too baffled...

Here's an excerpt from a song that I think sends a nice message, in a particularly forceful way if you listen to the song.

Hidden stuff:

Face the side of me that hates
The side of my disgrace
Where I could not step in

Thanks to all of you who had so much patience
And so much passion for my soul
You can't understand all the importance you had
And how much you have meant
To this little life that I have lived

And to all the rest to whom tried to bring me
Down and to wound my own trust
You stole my innocence destroyed ideals
And you need to be damned
I am cursing you from down below

Look me in the eyes
And face all my blinded hate
I would be afraid cause I will get ya!

[thewake]

Incollegenow Wrote:Lets start with food. How many of us loved candy as kids? *Raises hand* hell I still love candy, but it's bad for us. How many of us hated the thought of eating vegitables? *raises hand*, yet these were the foods we were supposed to eat.

I like both. And also, that's not totally true. Fruit is good for us, and it is sweet. Dark chocolate is all the rage for health fanatics. The fact is, there's always an exception to the rule. Religion frowns on pleasure that gets in the way of God, and I'm sure i you watched the History Channel at eight years old your parents would be proud of you for being "smart" or something like that.

Don't generalize.

[SoulRiser]

I think this kind of mindset really fucks people up. Because it makes them not trust themselves, and they don't do what they feel is right.

What's best for you is actually what you want... the problem is that most people don't know what they want, and don't know how to find out. Do you really want candy or to watch TV? Could it be that those things are just a replacement for something you really want, but think you can't have, so you'll settle for that other stuff instead?

They don't teach people how to find out what they want in school (in fact they do a really good job of discouraging it), and most people never figure it out on their own either.

[Puchiko]

The vegetables thing seems like a conspiracy looking back now. Vegetables are pretty good on their own (and fruits even better), I think kids are kinda conditioned not to like them because everyone assumes them to. But as a child, I found grapes or pineapple more tasty than candy (though candy beat apples). It was probably because grapes and pineapple is far from cheap, so I only had it occasionally-less often than candy. But seriously, all these parents and publications devise ways of getting your children to eat fresh fruit and vegetables, but I think few children, if not conditioned to hate produce, will turn down grapes or even tomatoes. 'cause tomatoes are friggin' good.

So looking back, it really does seem like the whole vegetables thing is a conspiracy: make the kids hate vegetables, and them make them eat them, to accustom them to being denied choice. However, now I'm slipping to a train of thought not unlike that of 9/11 conspiracy theorists or holocaust deniers, so I'm just going to stop and pretend I never wrote that. 'cause it does seem absurd from an objective view point.

[Amortisatie]

Maybe the government wants kids to hate veggies just for that reason?

[Kitteneater]

Yeah, through out human history, this mentality has certainly echoed the thoughts of every non-thinking person. "Its good to do something you don't like." Why should I do something I don't like? I'll only live to be 76 years old. Do I really have time to do something I don't like? I realized a long time ago that people tend to compromise because of what society tells them. I don't follow that logic.

[whistlingwings]

To try things however is a good idea.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:I'll only live to be 76 years old. Do I really have time to do something I don't like?

*adds to quotes collection*

Yeah, and you might not even live that long. Lots of people die before that age. Dunno 'bout that conspiracy thing though. Veggies can be really tasty if you make them properly. I'm guessing most people think they're supposed to not be tasty, so they don't even try to make them nice.

I suppose that can apply to everything else too: a lot of the more unpleasant things can be done in a more pleasant way, but people don't do that because they're "supposed" to be unpleasant. Almost as if they want to punish themselves.

[Incollegenow]

Amortisatie Wrote:Hmm, after thinking about this, I have just realized what you are talking about and how it is a reality in my life.

It so seems that what someone else wants you to do is always more important than what you want to do yourself. Is it not our life? Our short little lives which are wasted away by doing things that others want us to do and having little to no time to do what we want to do.

"All men who live, die, but not all who die, live"

It's the horrid truth, yet everyone seems to deny it, save us of course. I really don't know what to say, i'm too baffled...

Here's an excerpt from a song that I think sends a nice message, in a particularly forceful way if you listen to the song.

Hidden stuff:

Face the side of me that hates
The side of my disgrace
Where I could not step in

Thanks to all of you who had so much patience
And so much passion for my soul
You can't understand all the importance you had
And how much you have meant
To this little life that I have lived

And to all the rest to whom tried to bring me
Down and to wound my own trust
You stole my innocence destroyed ideals
And you need to be damned
I am cursing you from down below

Look me in the eyes
And face all my blinded hate
I would be afraid cause I will get ya!

We shouldn't have to base our lives around how others see fit. Fuck religion, fuck school, and fuck all collectivist cultures who try to shape the way people live, and diminish the value of their one life. And I mean this. Everyone gets ONE life, and they should be allowed to live their life the way they want to as long as it doesn't involve controlling others. Instead of being so concerned with how other people live, we should focus on our own lives. If everyone could just live their own life and learn to coexist with each other, we would all be better off.

[Amortisatie]

Incollegenow Wrote:

Amortisatie Wrote:Hmm, after thinking about this, I have just realized what you are talking about and how it is a reality in my life.

It so seems that what someone else wants you to do is always more important than what you want to do yourself. Is it not our life? Our short little lives which are wasted away by doing things that others want us to do and having little to no time to do what we want to do.

"All men who live, die, but not all who die, live"

It's the horrid truth, yet everyone seems to deny it, save us of course. I really don't know what to say, i'm too baffled...

Here's an excerpt from a song that I think sends a nice message, in a particularly forceful way if you listen to the song.

Hidden stuff:

Face the side of me that hates
The side of my disgrace
Where I could not step in

Thanks to all of you who had so much patience
And so much passion for my soul
You can't understand all the importance you had
And how much you have meant
To this little life that I have lived

And to all the rest to whom tried to bring me
Down and to wound my own trust
You stole my innocence destroyed ideals
And you need to be damned
I am cursing you from down below

Look me in the eyes
And face all my blinded hate
I would be afraid cause I will get ya!

We shouldn't have to base our lives around how others see fit. Fuck religion, fuck school, and fuck all collectivist cultures who try to shape the way people live, and diminish the value of their one life. And I mean this. Everyone gets ONE life, and they should be allowed to live their life the way they want to as long as it doesn't involve controlling others. Instead of being so concerned with how other people live, we should focus on our own lives. If everyone could just live their own life and learn to coexist with each other, we would all be better off.

Agreed.

I believe this album cover is suitable

Hidden stuff:

[Reptorian]

Incollegenow Wrote:

Amortisatie Wrote:We shouldn't have to base our lives around how others see fit. Fuck religion, fuck school, and fuck all collectivist cultures who try to shape the way people live, and diminish the value of their one life.

I agree to the level where they shouldn't be controlling other, but religion doesn't seem to affect people way of living according to this place I live right at, but however religion do produce people attempting to control other towards by annoyance and co-ercion although not all religious people are like this. All I have observed in my school that anybody can play rough regarding of their beliefs and religious background, there are christian/athiest/agnostic druggies at this school while it is against the decent morals group of their belief group which this shows evidence that what the morals inside the books doesn't neccessarily help an certain people to behave that way.

People should learn to get along with each other regarding of what their beliefs are since that would reduce fighting to an huge level and allows more ideas to be spreading.

[Amortisatie]

Wha? I didn;t write that, you got your quotes mixed up

IMO religious orders (aka the Catholic church) are just things used to rake in money from the worshippers