God.

[Amortisatie]

mrwednesday Wrote:

Kitteneater Wrote:Stop messing with them, goddamn it.

Fine. Bye all, sorry to be such a killjoy.

EDIT: DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON THE WAY OUT

[Fire Elf]

Victoly!!

[returnal]

mrwednesday Wrote:

Kitteneater Wrote:Stop messing with them, goddamn it.

Fine. Bye all, sorry to be such a killjoy.

Thank you.

[Trar]

So he's gone?


...and to think I missed the party!

[aaaaaaasd]

Don't worry you guys. He'll be back.

[Fire Elf]

We'll just run him off the forum again then.

[kylemw13]

Wow, this thread may have killed logic.

[IllusoryDeath]

Gone & I barely got to debate with him. Aw, well. Not really complaining all too much about that, though. He seemed hard to sway in any direction.

@ Kitteneater: No matter what, everyone is going to have a different definition of what education really is. It would be next to impossible to find any middle ground, and even if all of us here on the forum were able to create a 'definition,' in the real world people on here as well as the rest of the universe would still be of separate opinions. The best anyone can do to be fair is show their views on it by debating & by posting rants, etc. It's like defining art....remember the Académie, how they refused artists such as Monet & Van Gogh? If there was a definition to education as they had applied to art, what would the outcome be for the school systems? Not all too fantastic, I assure you.

[Kitteneater]

IllusoryDeath Wrote:@ Kitteneater: No matter what, everyone is going to have a different definition of what education really is. It would be next to impossible to find any middle ground, and even if all of us here on the forum were able to create a 'definition,' in the real world people on here as well as the rest of the universe would still be of separate opinions. The best anyone can do to be fair is show their views on it by debating & by posting rants, etc. It's like defining art....

Wrong. In order to settle an argument instead of merely bantering back and forth like you have been doing, you need to define everything. Otherwise, you are literally talking about two different things, and you will never come to a conclusion. Arguing subjective points is useless, unless you wish to debate an insolvable subject, which is what you seem to want.

There are many ideas and definitions of "Education." That was my point. We must accept all of them, whether it be homeschooling or formal schooling. Some one's learning style should not segregate them from society. Alternatives must be presented for those that need them. Those in favor of different schooling methods must be seen as equals.

Edit: No schooling method is better. They are just different from one another.

[youpplrsogay]

Kitteneater Wrote:

Amortisatie Wrote:Not to derail this lovely battlezone, but what is with the [sic] thing you put in the quotes?

Really?!
It's whenever you acknowledge misspellings in a sentence!! And just for the record, school never taught me that...

Everything in this whole god damned thread is subjective. Don't any of you idiots see that you'll never prove any points without defining what the hell your talking about?? I'm very disappointed in SS. Even more so in Wednesday, who knows better. Stop messing with them, goddamn it.

Before you idiots argue some more, Why don't actually address the problem like fucking adults, instead of like fucking morons?

What the hell? As if simply stating "We don't like you, Mr. Wednesday" will do anything to strengthen your argument. As if typing in a fury "School is the only correct way to learn" will change anyone's mind.

Anti-school (for lack of better description) members- All this energy is being spent making asinine conclusions about how school is perceived to one particular person. None of you think of the whole definition, which is why your arguing yields no results. Want real change? Agree on what to change, and on what terms. Establish definitions. Every anti-school thread- "Enough is Enough," "Why School is Inefficient," "Why do pro-schoolers argue so strongly," is based on the miscommunication of both parties. Because everyone is arguing something different, even those hoping to reach the same ultimate goal, no one can agree. Members here only hold one massive idea that will some how be reached by magic- and by the labor of others. In order to change things, you must agree on an action and carry it out. No matter how small. I think that podcast idea was a great way of starting. But it seems to have fallen flat on its face.

I can only shake my head at the "logic" of this particular thread, and the blind idiocy of its authors.

Mr.Wednesday- Assuming an argument will change someone's mind is as naïve as a person's belief in the infallibility of a system like anarchy.

Call me when you people grow brains.

Wow....that's just pathetic. You can't see/read what we are talking about? Maybe you should be the one to grow some brains. Honestly I showed this to my 9 year old cousin and he understood it and even have a couple of remarks. The topic if you can't see it is that school does nothing more then try to brain wash us so we can be controlled like little fucking robots and is unnecessary.

[Reptorian]

This goes to Kitteneater

Agreed with all including the last part. People in here should acknowledge one should acknowledge that different schooling method may affects certain individual in different ways while there are other factors that affects that certain individual and different schooling may help certain population learn more of what they are taught, but the results will differ between different schooling method which means some of the learning method other than public school doesn't work for everybody.

It's time for the common type of school-survival idiot vs an intelligence person fight. Here we go. Youpplrsogay (idiot) VS Kitten eater. Someone give me some popcorn.

[IllusoryDeath]

Kitteneater Wrote:Wrong. In order to settle an argument instead of merely bantering back and forth like you have been doing, you need to define everything. Otherwise, you are literally talking about two different things, and you will never come to a conclusion. Arguing subjective points is useless, unless you wish to debate an insolvable subject, which is what you seem to want.

There are many ideas and definitions of "Education." That was my point. We must accept all of them, whether it be homeschooling or formal schooling. Some one's learning style should not segregate them from society. Alternatives must be presented for those that need them. Those in favor of different schooling methods must be seen as equals.

Edit: No schooling method is better. They are just different from one another.

Love how you shot down what I had supplied with a simple "Wrong." && I especially liked how you singled me out when I have only been a member for under a week and have had little time to offer a hand in posting, and yet you didn't say a word about the S-S community as a whole or any other frequent-forumers who have been here far longer than myself. Professional, that. Unless by "you" you mean a generalization of everyone on S-S, which would also be disconcerting because we are such a varied assembly of persons, and I would still need to be better clarified upon that point.

Define everything. Huh. Didn't know that what the world we live in is supposed to be a dictionary. How can a thing really be 'defined'? Everyone has different views on EVERYTHING. Everyone perceives things differently. If not for that, there would be no debating whatsoever. We wouldn't even be able to call ourselves human anymore, because we would all be on like terms on the subject of any & all things. Of course I understand wanting to have a standard for debatable topics - which we already have but could most certainly refine - but a definition is different from that.

I would not call it 'two different things'; viewpoints are viewpoints and should be recognized as such within debating, and a ground point where the argument builds up from is, I think, more of what you are getting at rather than a definition, however wide it may become. On that I agree thoroughly and completely with you.

Please do not take the liberty of presuming anything about what I want merely because I offer a different POV in a 1-paragraph comment, or even based upon the other posts that I have written. Those are hardly enough grounds for that. Debating an insolvable subject is not what I want, and I rather think that I've made that clear.

There is a difference between "education" and "schooling" - any type of schooling involved, be it public or internet-based or anything else. Never forget that, because it is a major basis of so many things within this site and even the outside world.

Of course different methods must be accepted, and I know from some of the posts that I have read on this site that there are those unwilling to do that, much less turn their heads in one direction or another. It's disappointing & more than infuriating, to say the least, and there I sympathize with you, myself, and others who will step up and realize that their views are not always the best to follow through with.

[Kitteneater]

IllusoryDeath Wrote:There is a difference between "education" and "schooling" - any type of schooling involved, be it public or internet-based or anything else. Never forget that, because it is a major basis of so many things within this site and even the outside world.

Some would disagree on that. That is something you should never forget.
By the way, I'm not attacking you. Do not be so touchy. I would hope everyone in debate here is mature enough not to throw in red herrings like "I love how you singled me out," and "I haven't been here that long." So? You seemed to ignore my logic, so I called you out. I've been calling everyone out, read the other threads.

"Didn't know the world was supposed to be a dictionary.." In discussion, it is. Without in detail describing what education means, how could anyone agree on a system? No one could because there are so many definitions.

Edit: Mrwednesday enjoyed the structured environment of school. He defines schooling as essential to education (and yes, I agree with you on the point of education being different from schooling.) He thought education is less effective without the schooling system now in place. "Why would you waste time arguing that," is my point. It is subjective. You cannot change the human experience. He learns best in that environment. That is not his flaw, that is his strength. You may thrive in homeschooling or independent-learning. That is your strength. We can only work towards equality. Arguing one way or another only disjoints the forum.

I'm sorry if I've upset you. Debating is not a game of win or lose. It is a learning experience. Once you calm down a little, I'd love to have a civilized chat with you.

Edit: Then again, you've agreed with my major points. So what is there to chat about? What is there to debate?

[Reptorian]

I don't think you have upset him at all. He's clearly trying to have a proper talk with you.

[IllusoryDeath]

Nor was I attacking you, mon ami. Debate is debate, and I was hardly being touchy; just offering up my views. It's extremely difficult for me to get riled up over the WWW. It's hard to hear voice by reading through a monitor though and I can see where you would think I was anything but calm.

The fact remains that you did single me out on my response by saying things like "like you have been doing," "and you will never come to a conclusion," & "which is what you seem to want." I said what I did about not being here very long because it sometimes is an important factor, considering that one is what one writes. Since I am new, there is little to judge of my own character & "what I want."

I didn't ignore your logic, I just have a different POV on the subject and addressed what you had written with my own ideals in mind.

I doubt that anyone could come to a definition of what education is, because deep down, in the back of their minds and out of discussion they would still have their own view on it. That would be bound to pop up when they talk with others, and then the whole thing would be ruined all over again.

Please, understand that I am really not upset. This is how I talk; I'm not aiming to win, nor for you or anybody else to loose. Personally I think that this has been 'civilized' but if you do not think so then there isn't much more for me to say, since you view me as being irrational at the moment. I can't change anyone's mindset.

[Kitteneater]

IllusoryDeath Wrote:I can't change anyone's mindset.

I know I took this out of context, but this is my point. Debate on this subject is pointless. No one can change the human experience, which is what this site comes down to: what we've experienced in school. It's hypocritical to eliminate school based on your personal experience. For all you may know, someone might love school and learn a lot from it. It doesn't make sense to push someone into seeing what was never there for him/her.

We can only work towards creating equal opportunities for everyone.
Whether that be dropping out and going to trade school, opting for homeschooling, or sticking to the same old school system- everyone should do what's best for them.

Edit: Rereading your post, perhaps I was the one who overreacted.

[IllusoryDeath]

Ah, now I am seeing your views more clearly.

I agree upon that, but of course this site is School-Survival....where those who don't like the school system come to be a part of. There are pro-school sites as well who bash those like us as we bash them, and I agree that that is complete idiocy.

One of the major problems I see is that not enough people know things about school like those here on S-S do (not talking about the forum, but the actual site). We need to better inform them so they can make choices based upon that; and not just the students, but the parents and the teachers and the government as well. I agree everyone should do what they deem best suited for themselves, but it's difficult to even get near that without the data of sites like this.

That's why I think the SSCast is such a bloody good idea. Think of how many people will be getting - hopefully not extremely biased - information about school once S-S branched out like that?

[Kitteneater]

IllusoryDeath Wrote:That's why I think the SSCast is such a bloody good idea. Think of how many people will be getting - hopefully not extremely biased - information about school once S-S branched out like that?

Yes. The key would be keeping it unbiased.

And for those who doesn't know, our first session will be Monday, August 3rd, on Skype. I'll try to take notes so I can re-post things on here for discussion. PM Manly Pastry or me if you want in. A mic is a must!!

[Amortisatie]

TO EBAY 4 MIC!