What my English teacher said today...

[Paraless]

Quote:I don't think all schools are evil. Why else would I have made that "Don't forget" thread?

One thread. Great.

Quote:And saying essentially that we're ungrateful is like telling a man in prison to be glad he has food and a roof over his head.

You're seriously comparing school to prison? Don't be so melodramatic.

Quote:If you call "benefits" having the freedom to have a teacher grab your 750+ page book on World War II during 'free reading time' and promptly tell you that it's "not class appropriate", despite saying five minutes earlier that all reading material (excluding porn, gruesomely violent books, etc.) are A-OK, and giving you a detention when you try to have your right to due process, then I guess we are "biting the hand that feeds us".

That has nothing to do with whether school is good or not. Obviously that teacher was an imbecile, and there are imbeciles in all walks of life. That's like seeing one traffic light that doesn't work and then trying to ban stop signs. Was there any particular reason she didn't consider it class appropriate? And did this one event traumatize you so much that you couldn't keep going to school?

Quote: Reform for freedom, not just for the sake of reforming.

Look, a prerequisite for freedom and democracy is an educated population. School isn't infringing on your rights, it's teaching you why you have them in the first place.

Quote: So, when I was in 6th grade, after I've learned all the basics I "need to know", teaching myself about World War II is bad because I'm "too young to know what I want to do"?

I love how you put quotation marks around need to know. Yeah, who needs to know grammar, addition, or basic world history?

Quote:I have taught myself more about warfare and the Second World War than everything they have crammed down my throat at school.

Crammed down your throat? You attended a school, not a gulag. And what good would your knowledge about WWII be without appropriate context?

Quote:Why? Because in one it's mere forced memorization. In another it's something enjoyable, there's an endless supply of books out there that are actually UP TO PAR WITH MY READING LEVEL,

Quote:Calm down.

Quote:I can meet veterans almost anywhere (met a 3rd Army vet at my sisters graduation, for one, he fought in the Battle Of The Bulge). Not to mention the fact that it's actually going to help me in my career. Future WWII historian. If I change my mind, I change my mind. But it's not happening anytime soon.

But if you do end up changing your mind, you've wasted your childhood. School is about giving you knowledge in a wide variety of subjects so something like that doesn't happen. I don't know what the job security of a WWII historian is, but in this economy...

Quote: That all depends. Someone can be an expert on one subject, has all the facts laid out. But, all the school has to say is "You haven't learned anything" and he, somehow, is now "uneducated".

You had to do something if the school is telling you that in the first place.

Quote: Having my constitutionial rights stripped away and having biased "facts" force-fed to me (that I forget a year or two later, unless I had taught it to myself), is "improving cognitive development?

Biased? Every source is biased. Maybe if you paid attention in school...

As for the constitutional rights thing, somehow I doubt that you're the grand patriot that you're letting on. I think that, in reality, you're just scared of something in school and you don't want to face it. There's no reason to crusade against something to this degree.

Quote: Like being forced to a scaled-down prison for thirteen years and have your rights taken away. Because we all know the only way to be a good little citizen is to go through forced school. It's not like you can learn the same social skills much faster and much more pleasantly in the real world. And now in 7th grade, the work is almost identical to the work three years ago.

There you go with the hyperbole again.

Listen kid, you're twelve years old. Give school another chance. You haven't even hit puberty yet, for God's sake. It's not that bad; you're just intelligent. How intelligent is yet to be determined, but I think that if you applied yourself in school you would get something out of it. Don't waste your time on this damned forum.

Also, all of those questions were loaded to the point of being laughable.

[psychopath]

If you love school so fucking much then go live there, we don't give a shit.

[Elfy]

Paraless Wrote:Listen kid, you're twelve years old. Give school another chance. You haven't even hit puberty yet, for God's sake. It's not that bad; you're just intelligent. How intelligent is yet to be determined, but I think that if you applied yourself in school you would get something out of it. Don't waste your time on this damned forum.

So what if he's twelve years old, you're saying he hasn't hit puberty yet? Assumptions will get you nowhere.

Its not that bad?

12 Years of forced schooling and oppression. Its damn comparable to a prison, If you're caught out of there you're taken straight back by a truancy officer or whoever. Infested with sheeple and close minded people you can't think for themselves.

I agree with psychopath. I can't be fucked to give a shit on you're opinion. "if you applied yourself in school"? I can't be bothered with an institution which destroys creativity. Also nice shitty attempt to get him to give it another chance. I'm being harsh and i like it for once. /care

[Reptorian]

Paraless Wrote:The reason students aren't allowed to call school evil is because in doing so they're not only making fools of themselves but they're insulting every teacher, monitor, and principal who has been going through the trouble of educating them for their entire lives. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Calling school bad while you're still reaping its benefits is like calling Billy Joel a bad musician while listening to Piano Man at full volume.

Making assumption out of nothing. The purposes of pointing out the flaws of the modern public school system is to point out where it could have been improved and that is the exact opposite of insult to the teachers that find problems out of the school system with many years of experience willing to improve the status of the education system. There are teachers, monitor, and principal that actually do care to eliminate the negative aspects of the public school system according to the anti-school advocates. The fact that you stereotyped everybody who belongs in the groups just had made you lost this part of the argument.

Paraless Wrote:Reform for the sake of reform does nothing. You have to be more specific if you want people to take you seriously.

The people have been reforming public school for more than 150 years in order to get the students to get high scores on tests so that it wouldn't have been called a failure in educating students. There is already bunches of news showing that the education system is failing while being reformed and it had been seen for more than 50 years straight.

Paraless Wrote:Electives. Once kids are old enough to have an idea of what career they want to pursue, they're free to choose classes that will help them achieve that goal.

There are 10 years old kids out there that knows what career they should be considering because they get an idea that they may be able to ace in the career or they got a purpose in life related to that career. They may be able to achieve the goal easier with the class, but there are cases where their classes have taught them so little that they would have learn more of the career outside of classes and there are cases where they have find that the results isn't what they wanted when it comes to finishing the class.

Paraless Wrote:Claiming that there are differences between education and learning is just semantical masturbation. They're the same thing. You can't get an education without learning, and vice-versa.

You'll understand why I have thought that education and learning are two different subjects after reading one of my past thought which is down here.

If people say public school is education and homeschool is education, then education is a place that can be clearly found everywhere due to the resources involved in the outside world and the digital world that can be used for learning purposes which is also known as educational purposes. There are resources just about everywhere from people's experience, libraries, experiencing to learn, internet, home with books and working area. There's no way to get out of education because of the definition of education would be the places of resources and these places are literally observed everywhere no matter where you go unless you have lack of learning area in your brain, then you wouldn't be able to have education by that terms ever and destructive rebels don't fit this definition as it is clearly seen they do have the knowledge of what to say and what could cause destruction. If you mean education as if it require the degree to be educated, then it wouldn't matter if they have the knowledge of many subjects to fit that term of being educated. In that case, then to have the education would require to have the degree itself and nothing else.

Paraless Wrote:If anything, school enhances cognitive development. People have to be challenged if they want to improve in something. If you can't cope with the stresses of school, that's not their fault. There are countless methods of dealing with stress; accommodations can be made. Don't forgo school completely. Besides, what sources do you have that definitively say that school has a negative effect on intelligence? It's poppycock.

It can also decreases the cognitive development from the results of the extreme stress caused by bullying, the rules of the school such as the zero tolerance which declares that you have no right to defend back, teachers who just screams without realizing that personal attacks/insults will decrease the trust between the student and the teacher that had done it, the time that it was setup to get the students to be waking up early in the moring and sleep early while the students are more active at night due to the fact that they are experience a shift in body clock, and the amount of assignments that led them to have little free time to develop their talents. Extreme level of stress may cause short term damages and limbic system damages which reduces learning interest and the potential of how much that person may be able to learn. There are studies that have proven that stress can results in what I have stated before.

Paraless Wrote:No you aren't. Are you seriously telling me that in tenth grade you were doing the same things as you were in fifth?

In my experience going through public school, we are going through the basics of reading that we have seen back at 5th grade and we are going through using basics math classes that we have seen back at 5th grade and I'm currently in 10th grade at this moment. There isn't a slight differences I have spot in 10th grade basic class and 5th grade basic class except in math class we have to apply the concept of using the basics in order to find the certain area of geometrical area, but however that have been done back at 6th grade. We are being taught what are squares, pentagon, hexagon, and many more things related to what I have saw back at 6th grade.

Paraless Wrote:Classes can get large. Still, a good teacher can overcome this handicap. Everyone learns slightly differently, but the education system has become so ubiquitous that those minor discrepancies don't have that much of an effect. We all know what tests, homework, etc. are. It's the student's responsibility to conform to some extent if he wants to get anything out of his time at school. You can't expect them to do all of the work.

Although the students do learn a slight differently in classes, they do not learn the best using a similar form of technique and this words have already been backed up by studies of people with different neurological advantages and different experiences. A hard of hearing person would get extremely frustrated trying to learn in a english class that is suited best for those who are hearing although they try to accommodate these people. The results with accomodation have almost nearly no changes. A person who is hard of hearing in a class would have difficultly remembering what he have heard in class after the test is started right after reading the book thus that class is rendered nearly useless to the person if that person wants to try to get a lot of it. Some students learns best visually with reasons and words that they can relates to the lesson while there are some students that learns best by reading. A person would find some vast differences in how the person learns best when it comes to comparing to another person while there may be some similarities that can be clearly observed.

It had been observed that students are partial to the theory of different intelligence and the results are very likely to show that people score differently in different techniques of learning such as visual-memorization, visual-experimenting, visual observation with hearing memorization, experimentation using all senses, learning using imaginary concept, direct talk to talk, relating to learn and many more ways of learning. The results are strongly influenced by the sensory system, neurological system, experience, and psychological action.

Paraless Wrote:I wouldn't know, because I do have choices in my education.

Either you haven't gone through public school or you're just lucky that you got more choices than we do.

Paraless Wrote:I wouldn't know, because I don't have a superiority complex. Other people around you aren't idiots, they're different. What gives you the right to call other people names in the first place?

I have been seeing the fact that they do not acknowledge half of the English lessons that they have seen while missing out on the basic of mathematical concept on what is the angle of a straight line with a line that goes 90 degree in the middle unable to solve what is the other angle that makes up the straight angle, how to do operation of order, the calculation of finding out what is a circle, simple drawing that any 5 years old can do in art class, having low self-esteem, what is hexagon, what is pentagon, what is scaling and rotating, how many angles it appears to be........ I can say a lot more than just math class alone. Majority of the teenagers I have met do not know the concept of the lessons they have seen toward classes although they have been seeing the lessons for years straight.

Paraless Wrote:What kind of marvelous talents are you cultivating that school is so carelessly getting in the way of?

You don't "learn a single shit in school assignments?" I doubt that highly.

Photo-realistic drawing ability is the marvelous talent that school have been getting in the way of and my art teacher doesn't even bother giving critiques while I prefer intelligence critiques rather than positive comment that might be able to help me out since I already have so many years of experience behind art. If anything, the basic art class is practically just a kindergarten class for me. Stress is also reducing my learning rate in the photorealistic drawing ability that I have.


While I do admit that I didn't learn a single shit in school system was an exaggeration. I'll also admit that I have learned so little in school assignments while I have learn a lot more outside of school researching the meaningful studies that I am interested in and they ain't what your typical teenager would be looking for.

[Elfy]

I just loved that post.

[Amortisatie]

Gosh carfan, how can you find the time to type mega-sentences? I hate my ability to make sentences shorter...

[Paraless]

psychopath Wrote:If you love school so fucking much then go live there, we don't give a shit.

Who pissed in your coffee this morning? I'm just telling you people what I wish someone would have told me when I was your age.

[The Desert Fox]

Damn. I have a post all laid out, everything done. But whenever I try to post it, it says "you can only embed three quotes within each other". I've triple-checked the post, and the most quotes there are embedded in each other are two. But at least I saved it as a draft.

[Paraless]

The Desert Fox Wrote:Damn. I have a post all laid out, everything done. But whenever I try to post it, it says "you can only embed three quotes within each other". I've triple-checked the post, and the most quotes there are embedded in each other are two. But at least I saved it as a draft.

It doesn't matter. Bitching and moaning back and forth gets us nowhere. If you guys are really against school, grow a pair and stop going. See how far that gets you. Until then, you're a bunch of hypocrites with too much time on your hands.

Jeez, what was I thinking when I came back here?

[The Desert Fox]

Paraless Wrote:It doesn't matter. Bitching and moaning back and forth gets us nowhere. If you guys are really against school, grow a pair and stop going.

31 October 2007 - Hundreds of students walked out of Clarkstown High School North in New York City in order to protest the decrepit conditions of the building, which ranged from electrical problems to a rat and maggot infestation. Another problem was the school's long lasting cockroach infestation.
29 February 2008 - Hundreds of students from Holy Redeemer High School in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania conduct a walkout despite warnings that disciplinary actions will be taken if they do leave the school. This was only one of many protests that occurred that school year. In the end, the Diocese did not give in to their demands. The February Walkout made regional news.
5 March 2008 - Students from Alameda and Encinal High Schools walked out to protest a vote that would end several sports and Advanced Placement classes in the both schools. The vote was a result of the state government refusing to cut the prison budget and instead cutting the budget for education.

We've tried, but three or four people walking out doesn't nearly have the effect as 2/3 of the students do.

[Sanduril]

Paraless, you are pissing me off now. We are not a bunch of hypocrytes, you are just an insensitive asshole. If he is 12 then he is 12 and that is it. Does that mean he is incapable of intelligent thought and deep dmotion? Does it make him void of conscience? I am 13, does that mean my words have no meaning? We feel strongly about this, for our own different reasons. Desert Fox has a more oppresive school than others, and I get treated like a bag of dog shit with no friends, while all the assholes enjoy themselves. Just because I enjoy different things, I got picked on. They like sports and music, whereas I enjoyed reading and they scorned me because of it. I'm not looking for sympathy but if you can't understand that school has pretty much destroyed my life, then you probably were one of those assholes.

[Reptorian]

Paraless Wrote:It doesn't matter. Bitching and moaning back and forth gets us nowhere. If you guys are really against school, grow a pair and stop going. See how far that gets you. Until then, you're a bunch of hypocrites with too much time on your hands.

Jeez, what was I thinking when I came back here?

There are people who are onto our sides have tried doing something about it by informing them of our views about school while providing evidence of alternative education can be a help to other people and it didn't change the majority views one bit because the majority are stuck into the world of denial believing craps such as grades are efficient measure of intelligence and success, school is learning, obedience without questioning is better than questioning the effect of being obedience in order to change something to provide more options...

Amortisatie Wrote:Gosh carfan, how can you find the time to type mega-sentences? I hate my ability to make sentences shorter...

I'll tell you a little secret which is rapid thinking and fast typing skills.

[academic prisoner]

Quote:It doesn't matter. Bitching and moaning back and forth gets us nowhere. If you guys are really against school, grow a pair and stop going. See how far that gets you. Until then, you're a bunch of hypocrites with too much time on your hands.

Really now to much time eh, hmmm lets see some of us on here have these little things called jobs (and for me athletics) maybe. Ya i know total shocker right

If you don't like being on this site go ahead and get off.

[Sanduril]

:0 DUN DUN DUUUUN!!!!

[CrayolaColours]

Come on, I know we're all above this, we can discuss this without things getting out of hand. So let's all calm down for a second, okay?

[~Mystery~]

Paraless Wrote:

psychopath Wrote:If you love school so fucking much then go live there, we don't give a shit.

Who pissed in your coffee this morning? I'm just telling you people what I wish someone would have told me when I was your age.

We have the freedom to pick and chose the information we want. If you want us to submit to all our teachers despite what they teach then to bad its not gonna happen, were smarter than that.

[IllusoryDeath]

This thread.






I skimmed.






I lol-ed.

[Loxor]

Yeah?

Well, my english teacher says his grandma was Hitler.

Called her Granny H.


LOL

[Sanduril]

Yeah? Well, my english teacher was the only teacher who wasn't a bastard/bitch!

[Loxor]

Sanduril Wrote:Yeah? Well, my english teacher was the only teacher who wasn't a bastard/bitch!

But, I love my english teacher.

[Sanduril]

Arr you actually IN love? Because I just think my teacher r teh awsomest. :()

[Loxor]

LOLno.

[Quertillia]

I know I'm a bit late and that I hardly ever post on this forum, but I really couldn't resist replying to a few things.

Quote:The reason students aren't allowed to call school evil is because in doing so they're not only making fools of themselves but they're insulting every teacher, monitor, and principal who has been going through the trouble of educating them for their entire lives. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Calling school bad while you're still reaping its benefits is like calling Billy Joel a bad musician while listening to Piano Man at full volume.

But what about senators, governors, and other members of the government? Would it be wrong to insult them because some of them have spent their whole lives fighting for what they believe is best for everyone else? (And I'm sure some of them have.) My point is that just because calling school evil can easily come off as disrespectful and end up insulting a lot of people doesn't mean that it shouldn't be allowed. You can't limit freedom of speech because freedom of speech hurts peoples' feelings. And just because your Billy Joel scenario would be crazy doesn't mean that people shouldn't have the right to do it. Also, you seemed to imply that this person willingly turned Billy Joel's music on. Kids can't turn school on and off.

Quote:Reform for the sake of reform does nothing. You have to be more specific if you want people to take you seriously.

I agree with you on this.

Quote:Electives. Once kids are old enough to have an idea of what career they want to pursue, they're free to choose classes that will help them achieve that goal.

There are no electives about any of my interests. From my own experience, the electives offered are usually very limited and the work is usually very watered down.

Quote:Claiming that there are differences between education and learning is just semantical masturbation. They're the same thing. You can't get an education without learning, and vice-versa.

This just depends on how you think about it. If you consider education to mean schooling then there are definitely differences. However, most people tend to use education as another version of "learning." I think what the original poster should have said is that there is a difference between learning/education and schooling

Quote:If anything, school enhances cognitive development. People have to be challenged if they want to improve in something. If you can't cope with the stresses of school, that's not their fault. There are countless methods of dealing with stress; accommodations can be made. Don't forgo school completely. Besides, what sources do you have that definitively say that school has a negative effect on intelligence? It's poppycock.

All of my own experiences prove the opposite. Ninety-five percent of the students that I have tried to talk to about politics, history, or anything real and interesting have known absolutely nothing and couldn't care next. I had to tell a straight A honor student who Nancy Pelosi was. Also, since I work in the library I am able to witness a lot of forced reading. Some teacher will come in with her class and go around forcing people to read. What happened last time was all the girl's went straight for the Seventeen magazines while the guys randomly picked a book and then talked for the rest of the time. How can school be helping kid's minds when the majority of them seem to dislike reading and anything intelligent? It's seems to me that school has made them hate learning.

Quote:No you aren't. Are you seriously telling me that in tenth grade you were doing the same things as you were in fifth? As for the free time thing, nothing in life is free. If you want to become an educated citizen capable of supporting himself, you have to make some concessions.

I don't think that 10th graders do the same work as 5th graders. However, I do think that school spends an absurd amount of time teaching the basics. Why should it take five years or more to teach basic arithmetic and reading? Why does it take all of high school to learning algebra? http://www.joannejacobs.com/2009/11/cun ... h-problem/
My sister is in college, and she says that the major problem students have with calculus (and some of these are ones who already did calculus) is that they're still having algebra problems. If basic algebra, reading, and American history are the standards that we want all citizens to know, then how come these students still don't know them? There was a statistic out there that a large percent of high school students couldn't even pass our immigration test! (It's the easiest test ever. I did it online.) It should not take twelve years to barely teach the basics.

Quote:Classes can get large. Still, a good teacher can overcome this handicap. Everyone learns slightly differently, but the education system has become so ubiquitous that those minor discrepancies don't have that much of an effect. We all know what tests, homework, etc. are. It's the student's responsibility to conform to some extent if he wants to get anything out of his time at school. You can't expect them to do all of the work.

I actually kind of agree with you. I think a good teacher can manage a large class. However, wouldn't it be better if the kids actually wanted to be there? In fact, I'm not against school at all. I think taking classes can be a great help, however, we need to get into the mindset that classes are voluntary and should only assist us in learning a subject. In this time period, the level of communication and knowledge available has just shot up. Think of how amazed everyone who died before the internet would be. I always thought that they would think that we're selfish for not realizing it and taking advantage of it. Self-education is easier now then it ever was before, and it should be encouraged. After all, no one can force someone else to learn. My ideal idea of education is in a place where most people haven't had their curiosity knocked out of them. People take courses when they want to, but through books and the internet they learn what they are interested in and really enjoy it.

[Ceiling Cat]

*sniff*
Is that some fresh proschool meat?

[Leon Kinotolian]

Ceiling Cat Wrote:*sniff*
Is that some fresh proschool meat?

I think your super sniffer's all sniffed out, Scoob. He seems more neutral leaning toward anti if you ask me, and fairly knowledgable, too. I like him.

[Quertillia]

Quote:I think your super sniffer's all sniffed out, Scoob. He seems more neutral leaning toward anti if you ask me, and fairly knowledgable, too. I like him.

If you're talking about me... I am definitely an anti. I just try to be as fair as possible when posting, and I don't see anything wrong with taking a class as an extra resource when you want to. I thought from my post it was pretty clear that schools generally disgust me. XD

[Sanduril]

That was one of the best comments on this topic so far.

[AMomentOfClarity]

I've gotta be honest with you I only had one decent English teacher within in my years of schooling so far, her name was Ms Richards sadly she left and she lived about 90 miles away from my school as she got older it became more of a burden getting up early and travelling 90 miles consistently just too get to my school. Though I found Ms Richards somewhat strict at times from Year 8 she taught me so much and my English literature and language levels increased significantly, When are new teacher Ms Sam came everybody seemed euphoric however progressively during year 11 I noticed that Ms Sam as a teacher ultimately cannot even be contrasted too Ms Richards as she simply cannot discipline. I feel that my English lessons have now become extremely monotonous and futile, it’s as though my mind is being imprisoned by the mediocre teaching the bitch spoon feeds us with. Anyway her hypothesis is that quantity is dominant of quality, we argued about this during one of our lessons and she still couldn't face up to the criticism. Also a boy within my English class annoyed and wound me up severely for a long period of time and she was extremely apathetic about it and did fuck all about it, I've got to be honest the only punishment I can recall that was the "harshest" was sending him outside...She said to me that the British education system was the embodiment of brilliance and that I shouldn't badmouth it... I’m wondering how I’m going to cope with this teacher as I feel at some point my scorn and fury will cause me too snap back harshly at her and as a prefect and a "representative of the school" I’m not allowed to do that, whats the worst they can do take my fucking tie away?