Questions about abolishing compulsory schooling...

[TheCancer]

Should parents be able to force their children that they care for to go to school?

Should compulsory schooling be abolished for all ages or should it just be that younger children should be able to drop out?

Does anyone here support compulsory schooling?

Does the government have the responsibility to create some kind of alternative?

Does anybody think that school should be abolished even for people who want to go?

[SoulRiser]

Quote:Should parents be able to force their children that they care for to go to school?

No.

Quote:Should compulsory schooling be abolished for all ages or should it just be that younger children should be able to drop out?

Start with just younger children, then gradually move down until all ages can choose not to go.

Quote:Does anyone here support compulsory schooling?

Not me. Well, I might if schooling was decent and people actually learned useful stuff there. But then it wouldn't need to be compulsory - people would go out of their own free will. Because people like learning.

Quote:Does the government have the responsibility to create some kind of alternative?

No. The government should just get out of people's way.

Quote:Does anybody think that school should be abolished even for people who want to go?

Not me. If they want to, they should be able to go.

[TheCancer]

Quote:Should parents be able to force their children that they care for to go to school?

No.

Should parents be forced to care for (feed and clothe) their children?

[Loxor]

TheCancer Wrote:Should parents be able to force their children that they care for to go to school?
Not at all.
Should compulsory schooling be abolished for all ages or should it just be that younger children should be able to drop out?

Actually, I'm looking for school to be a more personal endeavor instead of you get everything they decide to throw at you.
Would make school so much better.
Does anyone here support compulsory schooling?
Yes.
Does the government have the responsibility to create some kind of alternative?
Not really, they really should look in to how it works.

Does anybody think that school should be abolished even for people who want to go?
Nope, if they like it why make em stop?

I'm throwing my answers up there.

[SoulRiser]

TheCancer Wrote:Should parents be forced to care for (feed and clothe) their children?

Not if the kid doesn't want them to.
Or if the parent doesn't want to, they should give them up for adoption.

[TheCancer]

SoulRiser Wrote:

TheCancer Wrote:Should parents be forced to care for (feed and clothe) their children?

Not if the kid doesn't want them to.
Or if the parent doesn't want to, they should give them up for adoption.

Well, it's going to be a very small minority of people who want to raise children but not have autonomy in that process. However, it is true that parents already have much less autonomy than they used to have. We all know that laws have come into place that protect children. So now we're talking about a law that protects children from having to go to school. If I had kids, I wouldn't want the government telling me how to raise them. To me it's kind of a creepy area, the government getting so into personal family business, but, we've already moved a long way in that direction. I guess it comes with some good and comes with some bad.

[~Mystery~]

I think that the government is generally just as much of an ass to the parents as the parents are to the child. But on a different scale.

because Its the government that punished the parents if they don't send their kids to school feed them ect.

I believe people have the right and duty to revolt under such tyranny whether they be child towards parent or parent towards governors.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:If I had kids, I wouldn't want the government telling me how to raise them. To me it's kind of a creepy area, the government getting so into personal family business, but, we've already moved a long way in that direction. I guess it comes with some good and comes with some bad.

But it wouldn't be the government telling parents what to do - it'd be the kids. In an ideal world parents would actually listen to and take their kids seriously, and treat them like human beings. Sadly not a lot of parents do that. I have no idea how this would work in a practical way, other than if a kid really doesn't want to go to school, and his parents are trying to force him to go, he should be able to leave his parents and go somewhere else, WITHOUT having the cops bring him back and force him to stay with his parents. This should apply to other things too, not just school issues.

It's a good question though. How would this work in practice, with parents that really WANT a kid to go to school, but the kid doesn't?

I think both parties would have to compromise in some way (after all, they do live together) - maybe something like this.

[Reptorian]

TheCancer Wrote:Should parents be able to force their children that they care for to go to school?

Parent should only send them to school if they absolutely learned a lot from school while having a lot of fun at school otherwise it is pointless to make the children frustrated which can affect the rest of the life stronger than the older age considering they are at an early stage of development. If they show a sign that they are stressed out and pissed at their school, then it is a sign that they could be mentally hurt from the stress they already have with possible issues at short term memory from the results of being forced to go through it against the will. There has been so many cases in history that shows being forced against the will does a lot of damages to certain people.

TheCancer Wrote:Should compulsory schooling be abolished for all ages or should it just be that younger children should be able to drop out?

All ages should be permitted to drop out of school only as long as alternative are being provided and they should be tested every 5 months to see their progress.

TheCancer Wrote:Does anyone here support compulsory schooling?

Paraless, mrtuesday, mrwednesday....

TheCancer Wrote:Does the government have the responsibility to create some kind of alternative?

The government keeps the school compulsory for the purposes of stabilizing the economy rather than the actual purposes of education.There's plenty of graduates who aren't been able to work hard or even comprehend the material that they have studied. They do want to compete with other countries on compulsory schooling and they do want to see people believing in their beliefs. Alternatives are already provided, but they do have the power to allow those who doesn't want to go through compulsory schooling to get alternative if they really want to. In this state, we have to have some mental condition in order to go through homeschooling and we have to have a normal or above average mind to get through school whether we get frustated and stressed out to the point where health issues may rise. The other way to get out of public schooling legally if you sign a contract telling you that you have to drop out of school in order to get the job or if you're emancipated I guess. The constitution don't matter anymore considering the whole country trash it right in the can after all the years of compulsory schooling and increasing security.

TheCancer Wrote:Does anybody think that school should be abolished even for people who want to go?

School should be entirely optional and the person who have to go if that they shown no sign of hatred of school and they show signs that they enjoy going through school. An disagreement between the son/daugther and parents about the decision to go through school should eliminate the school option.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:Parent should only send them to school if they absolutely learned a lot from school while having a lot of fun at school

But then the parents probably wouldn't need to "send" them to school, because they'd go anyway.

[Reptorian]

That's true nonetheless.

[TheCancer]

Quote:All ages should be permitted to drop out of school only as long as alternative are being provided and they should be tested every 5 months to see their progress.

Who designs the test? Who should have the authority to dictate what is studied and learned? Who should have the authority to say how and when a student is tested? What are consequences for failing such a test?

[Colin]

TheCancer Wrote:

Quote:All ages should be permitted to drop out of school only as long as alternative are being provided and they should be tested every 5 months to see their progress.

Who designs the test? Who should have the authority to dictate what is studied and learned? Who should have the authority to say how and when a student is tested? What are consequences for failing such a test?

Tah-dah.

[~Mystery~]

TheCancer Wrote:

Quote:All ages should be permitted to drop out of school only as long as alternative are being provided and they should be tested every 5 months to see their progress.

Who designs the test? Who should have the authority to dictate what is studied and learned? Who should have the authority to say how and when a student is tested? What are consequences for failing such a test?

We believe that if a student is working that as long as his willpower is in synergy with his studies he won't need any form of regulations to push his academic learnings.

Humans learn fast when they are excited about what they're studying that is why toddlers learn crazy fast, because they are literally curious about everything.

[Reptorian]

TheCancer Wrote:Who designs the test? Who should have the authority to dictate what is studied and learned? Who should have the authority to say how and when a student is tested? What are consequences for failing such a test?

The people that should design the test shall be homeschooling teachers collaborating with public school teachers only as long as they have 20 years+ experience in teaching. The people and the government should have the authority to dictate what should be studied such as reading, math, and science. They should be reading all of these subject in the matter of 2.5 hours and they should allow the student to learn other subject in his own time such as art. When there is evidence that the person is capable of teaching himself/herself, then that person shall learn the important studies all by himself/herself if he/she desires to do so. The parent should have the authority on how the test should be taken and the government should dictate when a test is going to be taken. The consequence for failing a test will lead into the fact that the person should be learning what he have failed in the test within very little lesson on the passed part of the test when it comes to the basics. There should be some constructive criticism when it comes to failing.

[Amortisatie]

TheCancer Wrote:Who should have the authority to dictate what is studied and learned? Who should have the authority to say how and when a student is tested? What are consequences for failing such a test?

No one should have the authority to dictate what is studied and learned, except for the one who is studying and learning the things they choose. The person who is learning should be the one testing him or herself, and there should be no consequences that alters or harms the learner's future, just corrections and some constructive criticism.

[TheCancer]

Quote:The people that should design the test shall be homeschooling teachers collaborating with public school teachers only as long as they have 20 years+ experience in teaching.

Believe me, most of the people who have been in it that long are the last people you want in control. Most of them absolutely worship the system, no matter how obviously corrupt it is.

Quote:No one should have the authority to dictate what is studied and learned, except for the one who is studying and learning the things they choose. The person who is learning should be the one testing him or herself, and there should be no consequences that alters or harms the learner's future, just corrections and some constructive criticism.

I agree in large part but what about the parents of a six year old? I can't take it that far.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:I agree in large part but what about the parents of a six year old? I can't take it that far.

The parents and said six year old should discuss the matter and find an agreement or at the very least a fair compromise, and work off that.

Talking with kids, taking their ideas seriously and actually treating them like people with opinions that matter, will solve just about everything.

[Amortisatie]

Quote:I agree in large part but what about the parents of a six year old? I can't take it that far.

The parents could introduce them to new things and see if they show interest in it or not, you should also be able to learn at your own pace, regardless of where everyone else is, because if you go too slow you will become disinterested, and if you go too fast you will probably miss some things and not have a clear understanding of the subject.

[Elfy]

TheCancer Wrote:Should parents be able to force their children that they care for to go to school?

No, you can't physically force someone to go anyway, that however depends on the willpower of the child, but generally speaking I don't think parents should be able to force their children to school.

TheCancer Wrote:Should compulsory schooling be abolished for all ages or should it just be that younger children should be able to drop out?

It should be abolished for all ages, people should have the freedom to learn and do what they wish, its their lives.

TheCancer Wrote:Does anyone here support compulsory schooling?

I'm not sure... but I don't.

TheCancer Wrote:Does the government have the responsibility to create some kind of alternative?

I think there are plenty of alternatives to school, you have the libraries and the internet, for starters, and you can actually go out there and learn something first hand and get experience.

TheCancer Wrote:Does anybody think that school should be abolished even for people who want to go?

If people truly want to go then I believe they can, but I think being an auto-didact would appeal more. However there should be no reward (If you can call it an award) I.e a diploma of some sort for completing school, the place should be used for actual learning. At my school its all revise, revise, revise, and hardly any learning for end year GCSE's.

My 2 pennies.

[Minunlike]

TheCancer Wrote:Should parents be able to force their children that they care for to go to school?

It depends. The parents could send their child to school for a short time, 2 weeks or so. Then the child may discover that he likes school and begin attending of his own free will. However, if he still does not want to go to school after this time, the parents have no right to force him to continue going.

TheCancer Wrote:Should compulsory schooling be abolished for all ages or should it just be that younger children should be able to drop out?

No one should be forced to go to a place that they don't want to go, regardless of age.

TheCancer Wrote:Does anyone here support compulsory schooling?

The only reason I have to support compulsory schooling is that it keeps people in school who would otherwise be breaking into homes and killing innocent civilians. Then again, that's what prison is for.

TheCancer Wrote:Does the government have the responsibility to create some kind of alternative?

It is no one's responsibility or right to create a method of education except for the person being educated.

TheCancer Wrote:Does anybody think that school should be abolished even for people who want to go?

In an ideal world, schools would never have existed. However, those who wish to attend school have every right to do so.

[TheCancer]

Quote:The only reason I have to support compulsory schooling is that it keeps people in school who would otherwise be breaking into homes and killing innocent civilians. Then again, that's what prison is for

I certainly don't want the job of trying to educate violent criminals.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:The only reason I have to support compulsory schooling is that it keeps people in school who would otherwise be breaking into homes and killing innocent civilians. Then again, that's what prison is for.

So... School = Prison

[Ceiling Cat]

For me, compulsory schooling exists because parents need to work their butts off to feed the government, and don't have time to raise the new worker ants cause of this. That's where the pigs offer you a helping hand, to raise your little one into the good obedient sheep you are, and let you spend even more time on your work.

By the way, compulsory schooling is also a business pretty much similiar to mental health and pharmacy deal.
The price of required books and tools for each year of school in my country rose to 600zl this year(that's around $250). For comparison, the minimum job reward per one person is 800zl, average around 1200.
Used books are unavailable, due to the fact that every school changes their selection of books every year for a bribe from the publishers, which keeps them running regardless of low funding. Every year, the books contain less information and are more expensive, printed using non-recyclable and expensive materials. My English set costs 110zl, and consists of two thin A4 booklets which contain 40% text, 50% crappy photos, and the rest is low quality paper, toxic glossy paint, and a CD containing 50 MB of useless stuff nobody will even want to install. The information is strictly directed for passing the high school diploma, not for learning a thing.
I won't even mention others.

[TheCancer]

Ceiling Cat Wrote:For me, compulsory schooling exists because parents need to work their butts off to feed the government, and don't have time to raise the new worker ants cause of this. That's where the pigs offer you a helping hand, to raise your little one into the good obedient sheep you are, and let you spend even more time on your work.

By the way, compulsory schooling is also a business pretty much similiar to mental health and pharmacy deal.
The price of required books and tools for each year of school in my country rose to 600zl this year(that's around $250). For comparison, the minimum job reward per one person is 800zl, average around 1200.
Used books are unavailable, due to the fact that every school changes their selection of books every year for a bribe from the publishers, which keeps them running regardless of low funding. Every year, the books contain less information and are more expensive, printed using non-recyclable and expensive materials. My English set costs 110zl, and consists of two thin A4 booklets which contain 40% text, 50% crappy photos, and the rest is low quality paper, toxic glossy paint, and a CD containing 50 MB of useless stuff nobody will even want to install. The information is strictly directed for passing the high school diploma, not for learning a thing.
I won't even mention others.

Brilliant post. It's very depressing how money driven the whole thing is and it's even more depressing at teacher meetings when I realize how bought into everything almost everybody is. The stuff you're talking about is so obvious; It's right in ouur faces. But still, almost nobody seems to notice it. What you're talking about is the crux of the problem. And not just with education, almost everything is polluted with this kind of idiotic greed. Great examples by the way. How old are you? I wish more people understood what you're talking about.

[Ceiling Cat]

I'm 16. My aunt was a teacher a year ago, she got fired for making the classes interesting.
I don't have half the books, because I can't obviously afford them all at once, and it's pointless to waste money on the in the middle of year.
What's worse, the teachers here give you E's without the blink of an eye for not having a book.

[TheCancer]

Quote:I'm 16.

You're an inspiration. Stay golden.

Quote:My aunt was a teacher a year ago, she got fired for making the classes interesting.

I've been hanging on by a thread.

What country are you in? I've never even heard of a zl.

Quote:What's worse, the teachers here give you E's without the blink of an eye for not having a book

Is an E an F? You would have an A in my class. Not only that, I would have you running things. A teacher with any brain power who isn't on a big powertrip uses a kid like you to make things easier on everyone.

[Ceiling Cat]

I live in Poland, and I actually assisted a teacher in one of the classes in middle school.
I also explained trigonometry to the ones in my class that didn't understand it, even though I didn't know a thing about it either.