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"Child" labor
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Loxor Offline
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Post: #31
Re: "Child" labor

Weswammy Wrote:
CrayolaColours Wrote:We're not talking about coal mines, we're talking about getting a decent job. If the boss is unfair, they can just quit.
*applause from capitalists*

That's why it's called a job market, not a slave market.

Heh, as of now.

Anything that ever happened or will... one condition, it has to be amazing.

I gave her wings but she don't wanna fly no more.

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time
01-09-2010 12:03 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #32
Re: "Child" labor

Weswammy Wrote:
CrayolaColours Wrote:We're not talking about coal mines, we're talking about getting a decent job. If the boss is unfair, they can just quit.
*applause from capitalists*

That's why it's called a job market, not a slave market.
In a perfect imaginary world, sure. But come on. Do you honestly think that when bosses are suddenly able to employ second-class citizens, they won't try to exploit them? If a ten-year-old gets blacklisted, what is he supposed to do about it? Sue? What if his parents disagree with him?
Really, we shouldn't even be talking about this. Once minors have all the rights of a full citizen including suffrage and emancipation, then we can discuss labor reform. No sooner. Not unless you want to make things even worse.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
01-09-2010 01:16 AM
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Loxor Offline
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Post: #33
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:
Weswammy Wrote:
CrayolaColours Wrote:We're not talking about coal mines, we're talking about getting a decent job. If the boss is unfair, they can just quit.
*applause from capitalists*

That's why it's called a job market, not a slave market.
In a perfect imaginary world, sure. But come on. Do you honestly think that when bosses are suddenly able to employ second-class citizens, they won't try to exploit them? If a ten-year-old gets blacklisted, what is he supposed to do about it? Sue? What if his parents disagree with him?
Really, we shouldn't even be talking about this. Once minors have all the rights of a full citizen including suffrage and emancipation, then we can discuss labor reform. No sooner. Not unless you want to make things even worse.

This, the effects of such an action would be much worse than what you're saying/thinking.

Anything that ever happened or will... one condition, it has to be amazing.

I gave her wings but she don't wanna fly no more.

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time
01-09-2010 01:19 AM
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Kirby Offline
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Post: #34
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:Do you honestly think that when bosses are suddenly able to employ second-class citizens, they won't try to exploit them?
What do you mean by exploitation?

I've never let my school interfere with my education.
01-09-2010 06:35 AM
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Reptorian Offline
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Post: #35
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:In a perfect imaginary world, sure. But come on. Do you honestly think that when bosses are suddenly able to employ second-class citizens, they won't try to exploit them? If a ten-year-old gets blacklisted, what is he supposed to do about it? Sue? What if his parents disagree with him?
Really, we shouldn't even be talking about this. Once minors have all the rights of a full citizen including suffrage and emancipation, then we can discuss labor reform. No sooner. Not unless you want to make things even worse.

There are legal adults out there that aren't capable of taking full available rights properly nor they are capable of using their advantages properly. There are several teenagers out there that could be capable of handling situations that adults goes through if they had the right to do so. After a certain age in the development of adolescence, the brain development, and the body developments only influence the capability of handling certain responsibilities. Despite the lack of full development of the brain and body, the psychological maturity influences the capability of handling certain responsibilities a lot more. There are several different examples out there that shows that age appears to be only a number,although age is a important factor that affects a lot of other areas.

Education and population control is the key to stabilize the status of many different places. Sadly, this country is considerably failing in helping population with their needed knowledge development, thus so many people who graduated are missing out on lots of important information. Also, population control in this country is mismanaged in certain areas. All of this helps support the idea that minors shouldn't have full rights when it comes to this kind of circumstances we're currently at.

ZZZ...
01-09-2010 07:56 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #36
Re: "Child" labor

Kirby Wrote:What do you mean by exploitation?
I mean exploitation. Using and abusing them. Treating them like shit. Taking their rights. Preventing them from making their own choices. Etc. What is there to explain?

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
01-09-2010 12:50 PM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Post: #37
Re: "Child" labor

We're already legally analraped with a morning star without lube in schools now. If employers(who are known for mistreating even adults) would get a chance to contribute, the suicide rates would be as high as 50% of civilized population.

Problem, officer?
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01-09-2010 03:28 PM
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Kirby Offline
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Post: #38
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:I mean exploitation. Using and abusing them. Treating them like shit. Taking their rights. Preventing them from making their own choices. Etc.
This is obviously wrong. Nevertheless, labour laws also take away freedom from workers. You don't solve a lack of freedom with another lack of freedom.

I've never let my school interfere with my education.
01-10-2010 12:43 PM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #39
Re: "Child" labor

Labor laws aren't meant to take away workers' rights. If they do, then they're bad labor laws. So we won't support them and will only support the good ones. I'm not sure what your point is exactly.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
01-10-2010 02:56 PM
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~Mystery~ Offline
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Post: #40
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:Labor laws aren't meant to take away workers' rights. If they do, then they're bad labor laws. So we won't support them and will only support the good ones. I'm not sure what your point is exactly.

Some of us drop out before 18. Which means those of us can't apply to get jobs even when we have the desire and the time.

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01-10-2010 07:00 PM
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CrayolaColours Offline
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Post: #41
Re: "Child" labor

The only issue I can think of off the top of my head is parents using the kid to make money for them. Even a ten year old knows when he's getting screwed over. At least I know I did at 10.

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01-11-2010 03:42 AM
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Loxor Offline
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Post: #42
Re: "Child" labor

CrayolaColours Wrote:The only issue I can think of off the top of my head is parents using the kid to make money for them. Even a ten year old knows when he's getting screwed over. At least I know I did at 10.


Which is exactly what we would do, we'd make them work and take the money, of course, if the kid complains we just tell him its part of his responsibility.

Anything that ever happened or will... one condition, it has to be amazing.

I gave her wings but she don't wanna fly no more.

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time
01-11-2010 03:43 AM
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CrayolaColours Offline
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Post: #43
Re: "Child" labor

Brickwall That could be a problem. But I'm sure there could be some way around this. (Don't ask me, I sure as hell don't know)

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01-11-2010 03:45 AM
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Loxor Offline
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Post: #44
Re: "Child" labor

CrayolaColours Wrote:Brickwall That could be a problem. But I'm sure there could be some way around this. (Don't ask me, I sure as hell don't know)

The evil humanity can do knows no bounds.

Anything that ever happened or will... one condition, it has to be amazing.

I gave her wings but she don't wanna fly no more.

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time
01-11-2010 03:47 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #45
Re: "Child" labor

There is a way around: postpone labor reform until the general youth rights movement is victorious.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
01-11-2010 04:12 AM
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Loxor Offline
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Post: #46
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:There is a way around: postpone labor reform until the general youth rights movement is victorious.

Yeah, if that ever happens.

Anything that ever happened or will... one condition, it has to be amazing.

I gave her wings but she don't wanna fly no more.

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time
01-11-2010 04:13 AM
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CrayolaColours Offline
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Post: #47
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:There is a way around: postpone labor reform until the general youth rights movement is victorious.
There has to be a way that isn't so time consuming and dragged out. At least, I hope.

(Is impatient)

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01-11-2010 04:14 AM
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Loxor Offline
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Post: #48
Re: "Child" labor

CrayolaColours Wrote:
Rebelnerd Wrote:There is a way around: postpone labor reform until the general youth rights movement is victorious.
There has to be a way that isn't so time consuming and dragged out. At least, I hope.

(Is impatient)

Lolno.

Humans are a hard thing to change.

ODE TO 1710 YEARS OF CHRISTIANITY.

Anything that ever happened or will... one condition, it has to be amazing.

I gave her wings but she don't wanna fly no more.

I'm sittin' on the dock of the bay
Watching the tide roll away
Ooo, I'm just sittin' on the dock of the bay
Wastin' time
01-11-2010 04:16 AM
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Kirby Offline
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Post: #49
Re: "Child" labor

Rebelnerd Wrote:Labor laws aren't meant to take away workers' rights. If they do, then they're bad labor laws. So we won't support them and will only support the good ones. I'm not sure what your point is exactly.
I wasn't very clear. By "labour laws" I meant the laws which regulate labour beyond the point of basic property rights. For example, I oppose minimum wage and support the right to quit your job. Basically anything other than "the contract must be followed" takes away freedom from either employee or employer, usually both at the same time. So if a child is being treated like crap at work, but it isn't coercive, the child's only recourse may be to quit. On the other hand, if the child isn't being paid and is being threatened to keep working there, then there needs to be something done about that. If the labour market is opened to children, there would probably be unions and protective organizations for them. So long as it is voluntary I have no problem with that.

I've never let my school interfere with my education.
01-11-2010 10:58 AM
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Rebelnerd Offline
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Post: #50
Re: "Child" labor

But why are you so concerned with employer's rights? Their very nature puts them in a position of power over their workers, so naturally there needs to be a different, stricter, set of rules about how they can treat people. You can't just say "oh, anyone can quit whenever they want so everything's okay." People with power will do whatever they can to gain more power and you can't trust the lives of workers with something as simple and easily circumvented as the ability to quit. It's more complicated than just basic property rights.

I think Buenaventura Durruti is a pretty cool guy. eh kills fascists and doesnt afraid of ruins.
The quickest way to kill a revolution is to wait for it.
01-12-2010 08:23 AM
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Kirby Offline
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Post: #51
Re: "Child" labor

It's true that sometimes happens. The problem with your description of the market is that the free market does not allow the existence of a monopoly of these Machiavellian employers. Here's an example.

Bob is an asshole who owns a widget company. People work there because there's really no other place to go. Then, an entrepreneur named John opens up a widget factory next door. John is a pretty nice guy and the factory is less of a hellhole. Obviously, people would prefer to work there. Some of the widgetmakers working at Bob's factory are able to get away and work at John's, as well as some unemployed people. If you imagine there are many Bob's and many John's you'll see what I'm getting at. All else being equal, the good places to work will outcompete the bad places.

The important thing to recognize is that in the free market, cartels and other conspiratorial organizations are rare. On the other hand, there is no free market in the world. Governments often give special privileges to companies or sectors which often means a monopoly is created. It's never as simple as "opening up a widget factory" which means there are areas of the world where horrible conditions are forcefully imposed.

I am concerned with employer's rights as well as employees' rights because there is no difference between the two. People own themself and their property and the only ethical and just way to change that ownership is if it is voluntary or if you owe reparations for an act of injustice. The fundamental rights of property, homesteading, and contracts are the same between the boss and worker and are what allows the relationship to exist.

I've never let my school interfere with my education.
01-18-2010 10:42 AM
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Post: #52
RE: "Child" labor

(01-06-2010 08:37 PM)~Mystery~ Wrote:  That is why I strongly endorse shoplifting. Us minors can't even afford a loaf of bread despite working long and hard at school. Its amazing how no one even bats an eye at this issue.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
05-22-2017 04:01 AM
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Post: #53
"Child" labor

I could've sworn I replied to a thread like this a while back

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05-22-2017 01:54 PM
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