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The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

If you want to write about your experiences in school, you can write on our blog.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story
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flea77 Offline
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Post: #1
Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Well... i stumbled across this page. You might be interested to read my story, as I would like to share with you how my views on this topic evolved over the past 10 years or so.

Ok... to start off. I did terrible in high school. I was a "bad kid", and just was pretty much bored and hated school. I don't remember a single thing from high school. I used to walk in the front door and out the back and was eventually expelled. I was so happy at the time, all "against the system" or whatever, but it landed me in a bad place. With no where to go and nothing to do , I pretty much ended up wandering the streets and ended up in juvie eventually. I moved in to a sort of state custody program where I learned how to do construction work and was awarded a GED like certification through the state.

Ok... great. I used to tell myself and everyone around how much of a waste school is. So terrible, etc. Until I realized the reality of a world without education. I worked terrible construction jobs that often left my physically injured. On top of this, I was terribly facinated by the world around me. I constantly read books. I would go to the library and literally devour book after book on random topics like physics and chemistry and biology. I told myself I was learning the "ubiased way" and thought my brand of learning was great because no body was "influencing" or "molding me to think a certain way."

Well I took a chance and went to community college. I did well there! In fact, I got a 4.0 all the way through my associates degree. I became a favorite there, as people were shocked how horrible I did in high school and that I was a drop out. I was alway poor growing up so I was encouraged to apply for scholarships. Low and behold the very first scholarship I applied for I won, a very competitive one at that, which went on to cover up to $120,000 in undergraduate education. Yipee... I was excited.

So I began my adventure at a nice, small, private school. When I first went there I had this mentatlity of "fuck this place!" It was all rich, spoiled kids, all tampered and trained like robots from the "system" which I hated and had run away from. I told myself I"d deal with it.

Now, 2 years later... I love this university as though it is my home. I realize how absolutely and utterly STUPID i was before! Education has given me absolutely everything in life! I graduated with a 3.8 with my B.S. in Mathematics and a strew of minor specializations. Now I am working on my masters, which is also being paid for. Yeah!

Now... I can on here so that I could spread MY message. And that is, to give young kids the advice that its OK to just hate school and say fuck pretty much... this is a dangerous message you are sending!

You talk about how there are "alternatives" to learning. You can study on yoru own. Yes! That is absolutely true! But I will tell you, study on your own will NEVER amount to what you can get from a university. Unless, you are a 1 in a billion person like Ramanujan (an old mathematician who lived long back... and there has never been another like him!) That is because the system DOES work I have found out. I can never even begin to describe to you, how much I learned on a semester basis at university. I would feel at the end of each semester as though my head were going to explode. I NEVER could have learned that all on my own.

I am HAPPIER, and I am more INFORMED of the world around me now. Education has enlightened me and inspired me. I have what I want in life now and have a very, VERY bright future.

However, I am also INCREDIBLY lucky! I won an absolutely incredible scholarship for which I always feel I am not worthy. I had the generous help of professors who became mentors to me. 99% of high school drop outs will never even begin to be as lucky as me in this area. And that is why these sort of anti-school ideas are dangerous

I realized later on that this mentality is really unique to Americans and possibly Europeans. Since going to college, I have about 0 American friends now! (I am American). Because once I got in college and realized how much of a douche I had been before, I realized the importance of education. And this was a feeling which all of my Asian peers understood. We Americans or Brits take educational opportunities completely forgranted. We should feel ashamed of ourselves! Do you know how many thousands upon thousands of people in this world would die to give their children a chance at education? Do you know how many people are illiterate today because their countries don't provide public education even at the primary level? How sad is that! We in the western world have opportunities thrown at us and we blow them away! I think that's why sites like this exist!

I completely agree with the philosophy that you should always think for yourself. But the hard truth is that without education this world can be a very nasty place! I have lived the hard life and would never go back!

As for getting alternatives to education. This is true, you can be like me and drop out and do it the hard way. But I can not stress how aboslutely lucky I have been. Most all of my friends from back in the day dropped out of school because they were "bad" like me, and not a single one of them has ever ended up doing anything! Most of them are still druggies! It makes me sad, and I feel like I haven' tbeen worthy to get what I've gotten.

Well that's my story. I half support this site, but I just think it's a bit misguided! Philosophy and talk are one thing, but the real world is quite another.
01-30-2010 04:13 PM
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Cosbydaf Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Quote:Now... I can on here so that I could spread MY message. And that is, to give young kids the advice that its OK to just hate school and say fuck pretty much... this is a dangerous message you are sending!

So what are you trying to say? That it's not okay to hate school?

And it seems like the education you go on and on praising is completely different from K-12 to High School education, and that's the only form of education I see criticized on this site .

If high school was so valuable you wouldn't have dropped out to begin with, and it sounds like you didn't need it and that it was nothing more than an obstacle on your path to success anyway. Why say it's not the same for others?




Quote:We in the western world have opportunities thrown at us and we blow them away! I think that's why sites like this exist!

Save me before I puke.


Alright, so the jist of this is that you hated school but got lucky and got to go to a good college, so everyone else should value their education more. Despite the fact that it doesn't sound like education helped at all until you joined that community college, that's great. But what about the people who go through school and DON'T get lucky?

Guess that high school diploma doesn't really count for anything these days unless you can use it to get into a college. And then you get to spend more time until you have a paper that actually means something. That's just dandy.

Sure, dropping out isn't that good of an idea either, but you know what? I think my generation is pretty well fucked anyway.
01-30-2010 04:42 PM
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username01462781 Offline
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Post: #3
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

OP's yearbook photo:
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01-30-2010 04:52 PM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

flea77 Wrote:But the hard truth is that without education this world can be a very nasty place!

Equating education with high school is bound to get you strapped to a pole and flogged to the bone on this site. So kindly turn the other way and preach your apologetic tales of opportunities somewhere else.

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

~~

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Disaster lurks within good fortune;
Who can say how things will end?
Perhaps there is no end.
01-30-2010 06:23 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #5
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Please refer to the FAQ, also known as the "Frequently Assumed Misconceptions" about school page:
http://www.school-survival.net/about/faq.php

I think you may have missed a few vital points in your "against the system" thinking. Doesn't sound like you really had any clue why you were bored or against the system. Or you don't care why you were.

Quote:I was a "bad kid", and just was pretty much bored and hated school. I don't remember a single thing from high school. I used to walk in the front door and out the back and was eventually expelled. I was so happy at the time, all "against the system" or whatever, but it landed me in a bad place. With no where to go and nothing to do , I pretty much ended up wandering the streets and ended up in juvie eventually.

So you fucked up.

"It landed me in a bad place" - No, "it" didn't do anything, YOU did! Take some responsibility for your own actions.

See, the thing here is that you sound like you're blaming your "against the system" beliefs for everything bad that you did to yourself. This is a form of denial, so that you don't have to critically examine your beliefs and feelings objectively - it's a convenient way to shift the blame away from yourself and onto "society", or "Americans" or pretty much anything other than yourself. You're giving your power away, you're making yourself weaker by doing this.

So you got some freedom away from school finally, and you didn't know what to do with it! This is a normal side effect of being in school so long: people don't even know HOW to be free anymore. So in your case you wasted it and ended up getting in trouble, and now you conclude that too much freedom is a bad thing, right? This is precisely how school is designed, this is precisely what they want to happen. They want people to be so irresponsible that they can't handle to think for themselves, that they can't handle being free. So that they'll gladly turn their power over to someone else.

The entire point of this site is to get people to take responsibility for themselves. Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but how else are you supposed to learn? School is the #1 enemy of getting people to take responsibility for their own lives. It fosters dependence on the "system" and on pretty much anyone with authority.

Oh by the way, American illiteracy increased after schooling was made public and compulsory. It was better before they started public schools. Weird, huh?

Check out anything written by John Taylor Gatto in the articles section for more info on that:
http://www.school-survival.net/articles/

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01-31-2010 12:41 AM
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magikarp Offline
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Post: #6
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

tl;dr: people get old and give up their old ideals for security or comfort.

"Do we treat straight public sex differently than we do gay public sex? Of course. Straight people are so proud of their public sex that they named a cocktail after it."
01-31-2010 02:19 AM
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flea77 Offline
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Post: #7
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

actually I'm really sorry... I didn't make myself clear

Yes college education is so different from K-12.. and K-12 education in the US has some glaring, disgusting, horrible problems. On top of everything else, it is almost a complete waste of time in terms of learning anything. I think by the end of high school most people I knew could only do algebra... whereas my Indian friends who come to US to study, did differential equations and organic chemistry in high school! High school in US can be a ridiculous waste of time

I'm not trying to critisize. What I'm saying is that, although it is often a shithole to be in high school, I think we should be promoting the thought that it DOES get better and that college IS much, much different.

That's really what I'm trying to say. Yes, hating high school is so, so normal. In fact, I would worry about somebody who doesn't hate it. I'm just saying that I think its better to stick through with it than to drop out like I did. Dropping out of high school was so stupid! Had I not gotten lucky,, I can not imagine where I would be now, if I would even be alive because I was in a really dangerous world there

That's all I'm trying to say. I would just rather give the message to all of you who hate school so much that don't worry, because after high school it will be so different. I don't want people to give up on education because their experience with public K-12 is horrible as mine was. Because before going to college, I figured it was all just the same and so I didn't want to go

That's all I'm saying!! Hope that makes more sense...

and I'm sorry, I didn't really realize this site was entirely focused on high school either
01-31-2010 12:09 PM
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aerftghyjk Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

http://www.millionairedropouts.com/mill ... pout_List/
01-31-2010 12:10 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

magikarp Wrote:tl;dr: people get old and give up their old ideals for security or comfort.


it's not about giving up old ideas for security and comfort. It's about giving up old ideals (not giving them up but modifying them) because you see that they were immature as you learn more and more about life.

Education to me is so valuable now. I love to learn and discover. I have answers to so many questions which I had wondered my entire life now

and I'm only 22 geez give me a break lol you talk as though I'm 40 or something Biggrin

I just don't want people to suffer the same way I did. IF you drop out of high school, or plan on getting GED or whatever, I just want people to know that college is so different, and that make sure to really plan and go for college and not just "say it". Stick to it! Because life without education can be very, very difficult as I discovered doing construction work. (and btw I am a woman! I can never begin to tell you how horrible it was!)
01-31-2010 12:13 PM
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LOON_ATTIC Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

http://steve-olson.com/how-the-public-s ... hes-souls/

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01-31-2010 12:16 PM
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aerftghyjk Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

No. I do value education- and school has screwed it up.

Kids now believe education is about boredom, having subjects that don't interest you shoved down your throat, etc.

http://www.school-survival.net/articles ... boring.php
http://www.school-survival.net/about/anti-school.php

I could learn about anything I want to right now. I've searched many subjects up on google in my free time. I've read books in school and I was stopped so the teachers could "teach" us.
01-31-2010 12:17 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Memento Mori Wrote:http://www.millionairedropouts.com/milli...pout_List/


dude I'm not saying dropping out is the end of the world. I dropped out and I am fine. I'm saying make sure you have some REAL plan. Because just because some people dropped out of high school and now are doing wonderful, please realize they are the one in a million people.

You can never go wrong being educated. And college is NOTHING like the shithole factory that public K-12 is. All public K-12 does is warp your mind to believe a certain way. It's a fucking waste of time yes and you don't learn much. I will swear I never learned anything in high school. NOthing. I learned everything fresh in college.

Just know the reality is all I'm saying. Because if you drop out of high school, and NEVER even go to community college or do any other sort of thing like get training in any field, you will most likely have a really, really shitty life. You want to talk about getting up in the morning and hating where you are going? That's exactly the kind of job you're going to end up with if you never get any education outside of high school! Don't go on a delusion that you will become a millionare by dropping out of high school. It's not going to happen! At least not unless you pursue some form of higher education after that.

You can play by your own rules and still be very, very successfull. But it s a very, very delicate process!
01-31-2010 12:18 PM
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aerftghyjk Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

I'm sick of people believing education is synonymous with "High school" or "diploma". See my last post.
Also, that huge list is not all the drop outs out there. There's more- a lot more successful ones.
And also, a lot of us don't really want to drop out. If you are anti school, it doesn't mean you will want to drop out.

PS: Ever heard of unschooling? There's kids who have been unschooled all their life.
01-31-2010 12:22 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Memento Mori Wrote:No. I do value education- and school has screwed it up.

Kids now believe education is about boredom, having subjects that don't interest you shoved down your throat, etc.

http://www.school-survival.net/articles ... boring.php
http://www.school-survival.net/about/anti-school.php

I could learn about anything I want to right now. I've searched many subjects up on google in my free time. I've read books in school and I was stopped so the teachers could "teach" us.

Seirously my friend, I completely agree with everything you are saying. Completely. Please don't mistake my sentiment for praising high school. High school is utter shit in this country.

I just want people to know college is DIFFERENT.

And the one thing which I really did want to point out that I have for sure learned along the way is that, you honestly will never truly know a subject in depth studying it on your own as you will if you formally learn it in college. I swear to this. Well, maybe this does depend on the subject. But at least in my field, I don't see it possible to learn on your own the things I have learned by having the pressure to study around the clock. Maybe the one in a million person can do it

What you should take from you high school shit experiences, is that you CAN and SHOULD think on your own. In my undergrad, I will be honest in saying I rarely, if ever attended class. I never listened to the "class outlines" they had planned out for me and I took whatever the hell I wanted because I was interested in a lot of subjects. I didn't do the typical college thing and because of that my college experience was great. For the most part, I read the text books and taught myself. But this is a different kind of teaching yourslef because regardless of my view, I knew I still had to accomplish things on certain deadlines. I had a GPA to keep and so I had a huge pressure and that is what got me to truly teach those things to myself.

So I just think its wonderful you all are feeling this way, but I'm just saying, you can channel this thinking into higher education and do phenomenally well, far better than those who are brainwashed by the K-12 system do!

I am starting to think I completely misrepresented myself in my initial post...
01-31-2010 12:25 PM
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aerftghyjk Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Yeah, college is different. But

"And the one thing which I really did want to point out that I have for sure learned along the way is that, you honestly will never truly know a subject in depth studying it on your own as you will if you formally learn it in college."

Really? I doubt college has more then I can get at a library, the internet, etc.

Also- SoulRiser's post.
01-31-2010 12:30 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Memento Mori Wrote:I'm sick of people believing education is synonymous with "High school" or "diploma". See my last post.

I never... never said this. I recieved 0 education in high school

However as you study in college and earn degrees, depending on what you study, you can equate being educated with having earned a diploma. The degree that I hold does say something about what I know and the skills I have. It's not like high school where you can essentially bullshit your way through and never have learned much.

At least... what are you defining as education then because maybe I am misunderstanding you?
01-31-2010 12:30 PM
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Still, you have some fucked-up superiority complex, and you think you're better just because you kneeled and conformed for the bribe of a piece of paper.
Yet another government lapdog.

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01-31-2010 12:32 PM
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aerftghyjk Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Now, that's where a problem comes in- judging people based on diplomas, grades, etc.
01-31-2010 12:33 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Memento Mori Wrote:Yeah, college is different. But

"And the one thing which I really did want to point out that I have for sure learned along the way is that, you honestly will never truly know a subject in depth studying it on your own as you will if you formally learn it in college."

Really? I doubt college has more then I can get at a library, the internet, etc.

I'm not saying you CAN'T teach yourself. I absoultely "taught myself" in the sense that I didn't listen to lectures and instead read text books and mastered the concepts myself. But the pressure that an exam date, a project date in college puts on you will push you a lot further than your own willpower... for the most part.

And I will be honest, I think there are some subjects, at least which I've seen, which you are never going to get all the information online. Library, possibly with interlibrary loans. Take mathematics for example. You can teach yourself calculus, diff eq, linear algebra, logic, out of library books. But some of the books for more advanced courses (real analysis, complex analysis, functional analysis, things like this), you probably aren't going to find those books at a library and you will never get a comprehensive knowledge of them online. I mean buy the books and you will be fine. You can read them at home and learn. But what is there to make you thoroughly learn it?

In college, a good professor can be valuable. For example, you can learn and read a book at home. But at some point you will reach a level where you must take the knowledge and help of other people because some concepts can be very difficult to grasp just from a book. In college whats usefull is that you can read the book and learn on your own, but you can really get an understanding of your comprehension from a test grade. And then from there you can realize where you struggle and try to improve

I'm not knocking the concept of learning on your own... I'm just saying deadlines and other things are often really essential to give yourself the push for some more difficult topics
01-31-2010 12:36 PM
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Cosbydaf Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Alright, so judging from your new comments, you don't sound like you really disagree with the (for lack of a better word) mantra of this site. So what's the problem? People dropping out?
01-31-2010 12:37 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Ceiling Cat Wrote:Still, you have some fucked-up superiority complex, and you think you're better just because you kneeled and conformed for the bribe of a piece of paper.
Yet another government lapdog.

When did I ever say I was better than anyone?

I am worried more than anything. I could never say I'm better. At least you all are still in school. I dropped out. If anything, I'm worse because I didn't have the push to stick with it.
01-31-2010 12:37 PM
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Post: #22
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Deadlines won't help. It makes the student think about actually getting it turned in, not about learning. And the fact that everyone has their own pace.
01-31-2010 12:38 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Post: #23
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Cosbydaf Wrote:Alright, so judging from your new comments, you don't sound like you really disagree with the (for lack of a better word) mantra of this site. So what's the problem? People dropping out?

NO, I think I had misunderstood the "concept" of this site. I do believe I agree with what the majority of you are saying. Actually I Have run into only one or two comments which i disagreed with

I am just trying to spread the word I guess that college isn't like high school and you can channel your beliefs into the college atmosphere just fine. Like I was saying about how I never attended lectures. I did that because I wanted to discover things on my own. I didn't want to have one way of thinking forced on me. And in the end, I'm better for that. However, that's not something you can really "get away with " in high school

So I kind of just wanted to get that out there, that you shouldn't loose hope on all forms of formal education because of what you have experienced in high school. IMO the best college students I hve met are the ones who do it their own way and have beliefs like this. I did really really well in college and I think its only because I have these same sort of beliefs.

I just want to give that message to all of you because I don't want to see anyone ending up in a hard, undesirable situation simiply because of some bad experiences. That would make me pretty sad!
01-31-2010 12:40 PM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Post: #24
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

flea77 Wrote:I'm not saying you CAN'T teach yourself. I absoultely "taught myself" in the sense that I didn't listen to lectures and instead read text books and mastered the concepts myself. But the pressure that an exam date, a project date in college puts on you will push you a lot further than your own willpower... for the most part.
It just trains your value system to sacrifice everything for orders from above.
flea77 Wrote:And I will be honest, I think there are some subjects, at least which I've seen, which you are never going to get all the information online. Library, possibly with interlibrary loans. Take mathematics for example. You can teach yourself calculus, diff eq, linear algebra, logic, out of library books. But some of the books for more advanced courses (real analysis, complex analysis, functional analysis, things like this), you probably aren't going to find those books at a library and you will never get a comprehensive knowledge of them online. I mean buy the books and you will be fine. You can read them at home and learn. But what is there to make you thoroughly learn it?
Maths are to be understood, not memorized. Yet another example why your beloved education didn't work out quite well. And we DON'T need anyone to make us learn something, we can do it on our own. Just because you clearly dislike the responsibility of being free, and you like being ordered around like cattle - doesn't mean everyone has to be.
flea77 Wrote:In college, a good professor can be valuable. For example, you can learn and read a book at home. But at some point you will reach a level where you must take the knowledge and help of other people because some concepts can be very difficult to grasp just from a book. In college whats usefull is that you can read the book and learn on your own, but you can really get an understanding of your comprehension from a test grade. And then from there you can realize where you struggle and try to improve
By the price of your self-esteem, sanity, individuality, and sometimes modesty in case of sexual assaults by the professors who are in power, after all. Practical usage can tell you so much more than a biased grade you can do a blowjob/lapdogging for.
Pretty much doesn't make up for the effort in my opinion, and I'd rather not learn too advanced things than have to pay such a price for it.
flea77 Wrote:I'm not knocking the concept of learning on your own... I'm just saying deadlines and other things are often really essential to give yourself the push for some more difficult topics
No, as I said above - they're rather wage slavery preparations. If you're really interested in something, you don't need a push at all.

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01-31-2010 12:43 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Post: #25
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Memento Mori Wrote:Deadlines won't help. It makes the student think about actually getting it turned in, not about learning. And the fact that everyone has their own pace.

See, I disagree here. I used to think that exact same thing as you. But this is an opinion of mine that really changed after college

The reason why a deadline makes a difference is because you will really, really force yourself to do the hard undesireable parts of the learning and not just the fun and satisfying parts. And yes, there is always that hard, annoying part of learning. Everyone has their own pace, but you might not ever realize what that pace is until you are pushed to the point where you can't go any further.

Deadlines make a difference also because of how MUCH you can learn.

And it's not just deadlines. It's other things. For example, research. Real, true research. I firmly believe you will learn more doing research than you will ever learn in any lecture. I did undergrad research for 2 years and it made me think completely different. It was amazing and completely self paced. Unfortunately this really is an opportunity you will only get on a college campus! At least, scientific research. I am not even sure how to describe how it makes you learn. It just does. You kind of learn the "why" behind what you are reading in the books when you are doing research.
01-31-2010 12:44 PM
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flea77 Offline
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Post: #26
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Quote:Maths are to be understood, not memorized. Yet another example why your beloved education didn't work out quite well. And we DON'T need anyone to make us learn something, we can do it on our own. Just because you clearly dislike the responsibility of being free, and you like being ordered around like cattle - doesn't mean everyone has to be.

Did I ever say otherwise? See this is why I'm trying to say college isn;t like high school. Because in a mathematics program in college, you will never pass by memorizing anything. The classes are designed to test your true understanding of it. And understanding math is fucking hard. It's the fucking hardest thing I ever had to do.

I know in high school everything is about memorizing a certain way to get higher test grades so that the schools will get more funding. But college doesnt operate like this.

If you are about understanding rather than memorization, you will thrive in college. That's why I think all of u should not close the option off because the valuable students in college ARE the ones who care about understanding! Understanding something and understanding it your own way is where the true value of education comes in to play.
01-31-2010 12:48 PM
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Post: #27
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

flea77 Wrote:See, I disagree here. I used to think that exact same thing as you. But this is an opinion of mine that really changed after college

The reason why a deadline makes a difference is because you will really, really force yourself to do the hard undesireable parts of the learning and not just the fun and satisfying parts. And yes, there is always that hard, annoying part of learning. Everyone has their own pace, but you might not ever realize what that pace is until you are pushed to the point where you can't go any further.

Deadlines make a difference also because of how MUCH you can learn.

And it's not just deadlines. It's other things. For example, research. Real, true research. I firmly believe you will learn more doing research than you will ever learn in any lecture. I did undergrad research for 2 years and it made me think completely different. It was amazing and completely self paced. Unfortunately this really is an opportunity you will only get on a college campus! At least, scientific research. I am not even sure how to describe how it makes you learn. It just does. You kind of learn the "why" behind what you are reading in the books when you are doing research.

Eh, that is the opposite of will power. What you are describing is now taking the "You" out of learning. I also learn the "why" when I am researching my subjects .
01-31-2010 12:50 PM
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Post: #28
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

flea77 Wrote:Did I ever say otherwise? See this is why I'm trying to say college isn;t like high school. Because in a mathematics program in college, you will never pass by memorizing anything. The classes are designed to test your true understanding of it. And understanding math is fucking hard. It's the fucking hardest thing I ever had to do.
Really? I don't think so. I always understood it with ease, by myself if I got the right sources. Are you really being taught understanding?

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01-31-2010 12:51 PM
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Post: #29
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Quote:By the price of your self-esteem, sanity, individuality, and sometimes modesty in case of sexual assaults by the professors who are in power, after all. Practical usage can tell you so much more than a biased grade you can do a blowjob/lapdogging for.
Pretty much doesn't make up for the effort in my opinion, and I'd rather not learn too advanced things than have to pay such a price for it.

What are you even saying here?? Seriously this just confused me. Your views of college are really misinformed I think Cuckoo

but the point I was TRYING to make was that getting feedback from people who know a lot more than you can be really, really useful. What biased grade? With certain things, there is a right and a wrong. If I write a mathematical proof, and the proof isn't legitimate, there is no arguing it. It is or it isn't. It's basic logic. And you won't find a book to tell you why that proof is wrong. However, a good prof can tell you and you can learn from that. This is what I'm trying to say

Maybe I should have made most of these topics really specific to mathematics... because I can agree with you entirely when it comes to many other areas of study... I just think in particular mathematics is not a field which you can really teach yourself. For other fields, I really can't speak to those and you could be entirely correct
01-31-2010 12:52 PM
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Post: #30
Re: Good ideas at heart, but I find a bit misguided...my story

Quote:Really? I don't think so. I always understood it with ease, by myself if I got the right sources. Are you really being taught understanding?

I'm not talking about things like algebra, calculus, etc. I'm talking about theory. Only because that's what the guy posted in response. Ya and understanding theory is fucking ridiculously hard!!! Theory as in real analysis, functional analysis, complex analysis like i had mentioned.

If you understand math with ease that is really great because many, many people can't! Smile
01-31-2010 12:54 PM
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