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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?
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CrayolaColours Offline
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Post: #31
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Pockets Wrote:
Ceiling Cat Wrote:We might be able to change the school system but there is no way that we won't have to have some type of schooling and for parents that force there kids to go.. Also what about arts and music. You cannot learn how to draw with no teacher.. also there are all kinds of different ways of learning some don't learn well by the book or computer screen!
What? I've learned everything I know from my own personal studies. I've signed up for art classes, and, while it was fun, it never taught me anything I didn't already know by this point.

The grading system is my biggest problem with school, and should be the second thing to be abolished.

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Quote:Riddle me this, riddle me that. Give me a straight answer, you pain in the ass cat.
02-03-2010 11:54 AM
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Reptorian Offline
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Post: #32
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Pockets Wrote:Also what about arts and music. You cannot learn how to draw with no teacher.

What a load of bullshit that had made me rage considering that I been drawing for over 10 years teaching myself for the majority of the time earned a job at the age of 15. An artist can learn to create art by basically using experimentation and observation method learning the errors while improving the motion stability of the hand which is already backed up by children who taught themselves and teenagers who have taught themselves. Just look into neurological studies related to the science of an autodidact learning form of education. Besides, an artist have to experiment for a long time in order to have stable hand motion and imagination only comes from experimentation mixing several different ideas that is related to either thinking or memory or both. You cannot give someone hand motion ability or imagination, but you can try to give inspiration of some level. You can't just give a person the ability to imagine considering that you have no powers over their mind, but you can give them some inspiration. Artists needs to be highly observant and experienced in order to survive which will usually comes from self-learning observing and experimenting. If anything, you're probably one of these person who have no idea how to draw in the first place asking for help from other people.

What makes you comes into that conclusion into the first place when there's plenty of evidence right into your face?

ZZZ...
02-03-2010 12:06 PM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Post: #33
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

CrayolaColours Wrote:
Pockets Wrote:
Ceiling Cat Wrote:We might be able to change the school system but there is no way that we won't have to have some type of schooling and for parents that force there kids to go.. Also what about arts and music. You cannot learn how to draw with no teacher.. also there are all kinds of different ways of learning some don't learn well by the book or computer screen!
What? I've learned everything I know from my own personal studies. I've signed up for art classes, and, while it was fun, it never taught me anything I didn't already know by this point.

The grading system is my biggest problem with school, and should be the second thing to be abolished.
????
Someone broke a quote, I never said that.

Problem, officer?
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02-03-2010 02:27 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #34
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Quote:Also what about arts and music. You cannot learn how to draw with no teacher.
I guess I can't draw, then.

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02-04-2010 08:25 AM
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Post: #35
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Ceiling Cat Wrote:Someone broke a quote, I never said that.
I know, I should fix that, but I can't be arsed to do it.

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02-04-2010 11:04 AM
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Amortisatie Offline
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Post: #36
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Get rid of grades and homework, they are both pointless and needless. Grades also do a lot more harm than good, and homework wastes our precious time.

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02-04-2010 11:18 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #37
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Amortisatie Wrote:Get rid of grades and homework, they are both pointless and needless. Grades also do a lot more harm than good, and homework wastes our precious time.

What harm do grades do? I can think of many reasons not to use grades but I'm interested to find out what you guys hate about grades.

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02-04-2010 04:20 PM
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Post: #38
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Ceiling Cat Wrote:I say, burn all for-profit, stupid textbooks with no point besides being sold to schools. Yes, that means all of the crap we are using now, and replace it with books on the subject that actually contain something else than flashy Google Image results, and some text copypasted from the previous version.
No kidding. At lest update it vevery once in a while and tell where an image came from so I can tell when the picture is from Star Trek:TNG. That's actually happened, by the way.

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U.S. Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas, Tinker v. Des Moines (1969) Wrote:In our system, state-operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute authority over their students. Students in school as well as out of school are "persons" under our Constitution."
Rebelnerd Wrote:Human rights are being violated by US law enforcement. This is what the media is here for, you're supposed to be the watchdogs! You're supposed to stand up for the downtrodden, not belittle them as though all their problems amount to nothing more than some angry glares toward parents and sabotaging their computers.
I've seen so much shit done to youth and for some reason, this has made me angrier than I've felt in years. Abuse and oppression happens all over the world. It's a terrible reality of modern society, but we've all accepted that it happens and we're doing what we can to fight it and build a better world.
But this...this mindless, condescending disrespect toward people who have no legal voice with which to defend themselves, this reduction of parents' betrayal into a cheap crack about kids being computer-savvy...it's like watching a surgeon joke about life insurance while his patient bleeds to death on the operating table. The media's job is to protect society from oppression and they've drawn a clear line between the people worth protecting and the people that don't matter. How can they people sleep at night?

You're a journalist. DO. YOUR. FUCKING. JOB.

(04-28-2010 08:17 AM)Liquid Wrote:  Laws never seem to help people fight School. Laws only matter if the students are braking them...

(12-03-2011 07:40 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Solution to all these problems: don't fuck people you can't negotiate with in a civilized manner.
(02-09-2012 02:14 PM)Absentinsomniac Wrote:  The only solution is democratic self-paced education where students can excel in what they are good at and work on what their not if necessary, AT THEIR OWN DAMN PACE IN THEIR OWN DAMN WAY.



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02-05-2010 05:39 AM
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Post: #39
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Also what about arts and music. You cannot learn how to draw with no teacher.. also there are all kinds of different ways of learning some don't learn well by the book or computer screen!- is what I said. I was implying that children or some people cannot learn how to draw without a teacher. If you're self taught more power to you.

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02-05-2010 06:48 AM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Post: #40
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Everyone can learn on their own by default, but school destroys the ability in most people - so your argument is invalid.

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zagix Wrote:I'm stuck to the fagarena because I'm a fag
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02-05-2010 06:54 AM
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Post: #41
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Ceiling Cat Wrote:Everyone can learn on their own by default, but school destroys the ability in most people - so your argument is invalid.

School doesn't automatically destroy the ability to learn on your own. Otherwise we would all be mentally slower. So your argument is invalid.. But also. Not all people come preset or "defaulted" to have an art ability and some want to learn.

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02-05-2010 06:56 AM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Post: #42
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Most of us ARE mentally slower, and the people you see here on SS are rather rare byproducts, failed attempts at dumbing down. Art, on a side note is something you need to understand on your own. You cannot learn by anything except a few hints from some experienced, crazy artist maybe - and sure as hell not by a lot of theory, grades, schedules and whatnot.

Problem, officer?
Hidden stuff:
TrueAnarchist Wrote:and to think, i could be yiffing a hot vixen right about now
CrayolaColours Wrote:He just admitted today that he spent two hours...errr... shaking hands with the Bishop afterwards.
The Desert Fox Wrote:I thought when I downloaded it it was already emulated.
zagix Wrote:I'm stuck to the fagarena because I'm a fag
CrayolaColours Wrote:Woman up, will you? Grow a damn pussy and get over yourselves.
02-05-2010 07:00 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #43
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

I don't even think we need teachers. We have resources and we can use them. Is it really that difficult for someone to umm READ? Teachers can be useful but if there were none it's not like people would fail to read a book and learn from it. You act like not everyone can learn from a book. In my experience everyone does learn from a book, the teacher just photocopies it and tells us to work and explaining some shit.

Edit: Keep in mind, I said NEED not want. Of course we wan't some teachers.
When I say need I mean do we need teachers to learn. I'm pretty sure we don't there are other ways, such as reading or the hands on approach.

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02-05-2010 07:07 AM
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Cosbydaf Offline
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Post: #44
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Pockets Wrote:Also what about arts and music. You cannot learn how to draw with no teacher..

Sure you can, if you're determined enough. I know that for a fact, because I learned to draw on my own time.

Also, grades don't serve any purpose but to blackmail students into doing their work, and serve as a means of separating students who follow orders better than others.
02-05-2010 07:38 AM
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Post: #45
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Absentinsomniac Wrote:I don't even think we need teachers. We have resources and we can use them. Is it really that difficult for someone to umm READ? Teachers can be useful but if there were none it's not like people would fail to read a book and learn from it. You act like not everyone can learn from a book. In my experience everyone does learn from a book, the teacher just photocopies it and tells us to work and explaining some shit.


This is hypocritical! No? Well everything I read on school survival is "Kids learn from all different places and no child learns the same as the next." and "Kids learn different some need books some need teachers some need all kinds of different methods of teaching." Well what about the children who don't learn from books? Who cannot "umm READ?" and really grasp what they are reading? Obviously all writers explain everything so thoroughly that we can all simply learn from staring at a page!" All teachers be struck down to hell for they have committed all sins! And also we wouldn't have half the books if there were no teachers to write them from seeing the children's point of view. I am just saying it's a good teacher it is a resource.
VisualStyly Wrote:What a load of bullshit that had made me rage considering that I been drawing for over 10 years teaching myself for the majority of the time earned a job at the age of 15. An artist can learn to create art by basically using experimentation and observation method learning the errors while improving the motion stability of the hand which is already backed up by children who taught themselves and teenagers who have taught themselves. Just look into neurological studies related to the science of an autodidact learning form of education. Besides, an artist have to experiment for a long time in order to have stable hand motion and imagination only comes from experimentation mixing several different ideas that is related to either thinking or memory or both. You cannot give someone hand motion ability or imagination, but you can try to give inspiration of some level. You can't just give a person the ability to imagine considering that you have no powers over their mind, but you can give them some inspiration. Artists needs to be highly observant and experienced in order to survive which will usually comes from self-learning observing and experimenting. If anything, you're probably one of these person who have no idea how to draw in the first place asking for help from other people.

What makes you comes into that conclusion into the first place when there's plenty of evidence right into your face?
REALLY? I mean seriously when you were writing this what were you thinking? "EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO DRAW BUT YOU! DON'T ASK FOR POINTERS!" Just because you are naturally gifted does not mean everyone is. And art is not just drawing! I am very artistic thank you for assuming bullshit. And I went on to say some can't just learn by a computer screen or book. Just because one person knows how to do anything in the matter of fact does not mean others wake up one morning after trying it out and know how! Just like Dance (an art form.) Do you know how to dance really well with no classes and just learned by yourself? No you get help from friends and people that know how to dance. My point being teachers can help you in many different situation's or even experienced people.

I will probably get dissed on this topic. I am just pointing out a lot of you refuse to see other ways and do not look at it like other people that are pro schoolers. Being a anti-schooler I try to look at it in every way possible so I know when I am wrong. I am not saying anyone is wrong.

http://www.launchpadmovement.com/ "done as fuck"


Carla, Carla, Carla... You whore.
02-05-2010 08:13 AM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Post: #46
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Just because you think that you need a teacher, doesn't mean you actually do. It's just that school has already made you think that there's no other way, and that what they're shoving down your butt is more effective than anything else.

Problem, officer?
Hidden stuff:
TrueAnarchist Wrote:and to think, i could be yiffing a hot vixen right about now
CrayolaColours Wrote:He just admitted today that he spent two hours...errr... shaking hands with the Bishop afterwards.
The Desert Fox Wrote:I thought when I downloaded it it was already emulated.
zagix Wrote:I'm stuck to the fagarena because I'm a fag
CrayolaColours Wrote:Woman up, will you? Grow a damn pussy and get over yourselves.
02-05-2010 08:17 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #47
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Pockets Wrote:
Absentinsomniac Wrote:I don't even think we need teachers. We have resources and we can use them. Is it really that difficult for someone to umm READ? Teachers can be useful but if there were none it's not like people would fail to read a book and learn from it. You act like not everyone can learn from a book. In my experience everyone does learn from a book, the teacher just photocopies it and tells us to work and explaining some shit.


This is hypocritical! No? Well everything I read on school survival is "Kids learn from all different places and no child learns the same as the next." and "Kids learn different some need books some need teachers some need all kinds of different methods of teaching." Well what about the children who don't learn from books? Who cannot "umm READ?" and really grasp what they are reading? Obviously all writers explain everything so thoroughly that we can all simply learn from staring at a page!" All teachers be struck down to hell for they have committed all sins! And also we wouldn't have half the books if there were no teachers to write them from seeing the children's point of view. I am just saying it's a good teacher it is a resource.
VisualStyly Wrote:What a load of bullshit that had made me rage considering that I been drawing for over 10 years teaching myself for the majority of the time earned a job at the age of 15. An artist can learn to create art by basically using experimentation and observation method learning the errors while improving the motion stability of the hand which is already backed up by children who taught themselves and teenagers who have taught themselves. Just look into neurological studies related to the science of an autodidact learning form of education. Besides, an artist have to experiment for a long time in order to have stable hand motion and imagination only comes from experimentation mixing several different ideas that is related to either thinking or memory or both. You cannot give someone hand motion ability or imagination, but you can try to give inspiration of some level. You can't just give a person the ability to imagine considering that you have no powers over their mind, but you can give them some inspiration. Artists needs to be highly observant and experienced in order to survive which will usually comes from self-learning observing and experimenting. If anything, you're probably one of these person who have no idea how to draw in the first place asking for help from other people.

What makes you comes into that conclusion into the first place when there's plenty of evidence right into your face?
REALLY? I mean seriously when you were writing this what were you thinking? "EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO DRAW BUT YOU! DON'T ASK FOR POINTERS!" Just because you are naturally gifted does not mean everyone is. And art is not just drawing! I am very artistic thank you for assuming bullshit. And I went on to say some can't just learn by a computer screen or book. Just because one person knows how to do anything in the matter of fact does not mean others wake up one morning after trying it out and know how! Just like Dance (an art form.) Do you know how to dance really well with no classes and just learned by yourself? No you get help from friends and people that know how to dance. My point being teachers can help you in many different situation's or even experienced people.

I will probably get dissed on this topic. I am just pointing out a lot of you refuse to see other ways and do not look at it like other people that are pro schoolers. Being a anti-schooler I try to look at it in every way possible so I know when I am wrong. I am not saying anyone is wrong.

Course teachers are useful but there are alternate ways to teach yourself. I'm fairly certain no one NEEDS a teacher to learn something.

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02-05-2010 08:19 AM
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Post: #48
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Ceiling Cat Wrote:Just because you think that you need a teacher, doesn't mean you actually do. It's just that school has already made you think that there's no other way, and that what they're shoving down your butt is more effective than anything else.

BRAINWASHING IS NOT REAL. I AM NOT "BRAINWASHED" I know I do not need a fucking teacher to learn your so against everything that you don't know what good and bad resources are. Teachers do help you on occasion I never said they were angels sent from above.. There are plenty of different resources that everyone uses..

http://www.launchpadmovement.com/ "done as fuck"


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02-05-2010 08:22 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #49
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Pockets Wrote:
Ceiling Cat Wrote:Just because you think that you need a teacher, doesn't mean you actually do. It's just that school has already made you think that there's no other way, and that what they're shoving down your butt is more effective than anything else.

BRAINWASHING IS NOT REAL. I AM NOT "BRAINWASHED" I know I do not need a fucking teacher to learn your so against everything that you don't know what good and bad resources are. Teachers do help you on occasion I never said they were angels sent from above.. There are plenty of different resources that everyone uses..

Then were on the same page. Everyone agree's there are alternate means of learning and we don't NEED teachers. Yes, they can be useful but it is possible to teach ourselves. No one said all teachers are bad.


BRAINWASHING is real. Look it up.
People brainwash people or in a better sense trick them or make them think there way against reason.

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02-05-2010 08:25 AM
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Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Pockets Wrote:REALLY? I mean seriously when you were writing this what were you thinking? "EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO DRAW BUT YOU! DON'T ASK FOR POINTERS!" Just because you are naturally gifted does not mean everyone is. And art is not just drawing! I am very artistic thank you for assuming bullshit. And I went on to say some can't just learn by a computer screen or book. Just because one person knows how to do anything in the matter of fact does not mean others wake up one morning after trying it out and know how! Just like Dance (an art form.) Do you know how to dance really well with no classes and just learned by yourself? No you get help from friends and people that know how to dance. My point being teachers can help you in many different situation's or even experienced people.

I will probably get dissed on this topic. I am just pointing out a lot of you refuse to see other ways and do not look at it like other people that are pro schoolers. Being a anti-schooler I try to look at it in every way possible so I know when I am wrong. I am not saying anyone is wrong.

I was only thinking the claim is simply a faulty assumption that can be dis-proven by several different documents out there. I don't care whether you're artistic or not for this conversation for the follow reasons such as the talking between us is about whether people needs a teacher or not. The answer would be that it would depend on the person. I understand the fact that art is not about drawing, but it is mostly related to pressure, hand-eye coordination, observing skills, prediction, and several other scientific terms which can be applied to drawing, painting, sculpting, and more mediums. I try to dance lesson with a teacher teaching me and other people tried to teach me other matter, there are several different cases after a certain age which a lot of them had failed to achieve their goal of improving my skills and I'm better off experimenting myself in order to learn. Not everyone can learn much from a teacher nor everyone can learn using self-experimentation. Also it has already been proven that people have different learning needs and different psychological behavior with different brains being part of a factor. I can bring you several different documents proving the claim.

ZZZ...
02-05-2010 08:33 AM
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SuperiorDiplomat Offline
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Post: #51
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

VisualStyly Wrote:
Pockets Wrote:REALLY? I mean seriously when you were writing this what were you thinking? "EVERYONE KNOWS HOW TO DRAW BUT YOU! DON'T ASK FOR POINTERS!" Just because you are naturally gifted does not mean everyone is. And art is not just drawing! I am very artistic thank you for assuming bullshit. And I went on to say some can't just learn by a computer screen or book. Just because one person knows how to do anything in the matter of fact does not mean others wake up one morning after trying it out and know how! Just like Dance (an art form.) Do you know how to dance really well with no classes and just learned by yourself? No you get help from friends and people that know how to dance. My point being teachers can help you in many different situation's or even experienced people.

I will probably get dissed on this topic. I am just pointing out a lot of you refuse to see other ways and do not look at it like other people that are pro schoolers. Being a anti-schooler I try to look at it in every way possible so I know when I am wrong. I am not saying anyone is wrong.

I was only thinking the claim is simply a faulty assumption that can be dis-proven by several different documents out there. I understand the fact that art is not about drawing, but it is mostly related to pressure, hand-eye coordination, observing skills, prediction, and several other scientific terms which can be applied to drawing, painting, sculpting, and more mediums. I try to dance lesson with a teacher teaching me and other people tried to teach me other matter, there are several different cases after a certain age which a lot of them had failed to achieve their goal of improving my skills and I'm better off experimenting myself in order to learn. Not everyone can learn much from a teacher nor everyone can learn using self-experimentation. Also it has already been proven that people have different learning needs and different neuropsychological features, I can bring you several different documents proving this case.
Alright now were on the same page Laugh

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02-05-2010 08:41 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

I recently got into an argument about weather everyone can learn something from reading.

I'm pretty sure IF YOU KNOW HOW TO READ you can learn at least a little bit from reading. Even a quick How-To article and then you can base your practice off of that. I've never met anyone who didn't know to how take information out of text and use it to learn.

I know people learn in other ways but I really don't think it's impossible for them to learn from reading. It's only harder for them, not impossible.

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02-05-2010 08:44 AM
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Post: #53
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Pockets Wrote:Alright now were on the same page Laugh
We may be in the same page, but your point that we need teacher in order to learn the subjects isn't showing merits for too long after a part of life. It has been already observed that some of the highest skilled artists successfully learn using autodidact method from the most part to all which renders your point shows little merits. That includes those who ain't naturally gifted in the field.

ZZZ...
02-05-2010 08:52 AM
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Post: #54
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

VisualStyly Wrote:
Pockets Wrote:Alright now were on the same page Laugh
We may be in the same page, but your point isn't showing merits for too long after a part of life. It has been already observed that some of the highest skilled artists successfully learn using autodidact method from the most part to all which renders your point shows little merits. That includes those who ain't naturally gifted in the field.

Yea. But for those who actually do need a little help. We cannot just forget about the category or either slower learners or just lazy..

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02-05-2010 08:55 AM
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Post: #55
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Absentinsomniac Wrote:
Amortisatie Wrote:Get rid of grades and homework, they are both pointless and needless. Grades also do a lot more harm than good, and homework wastes our precious time.

What harm do grades do? I can think of many reasons not to use grades but I'm interested to find out what you guys hate about grades.

Well, take away all the sugar-coated fluff, and what you have is a pure system of labeling humans, also note that people tend to call others dumb or retarded if they don't get high marks, and if you don't do well or slip up, the rest of your life could be on the line, or so they say.

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02-05-2010 09:41 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

I see. Ya it pisses me off that employers only wan't to hire people who do good in school.

So basically there telling us if we don't do our best for the next couple of years of high school we WILL be failures for the rest of our life.

Huey Freeman Wrote:Some 'ol bullshit.

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02-05-2010 10:00 AM
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Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Such people are convenient wage slaves, FYI.

Also, rather than from a teacher who is paid to pass on something and can be therefore bribed to provide false information, I'd rather learn from someone who's actually experienced on the stuff but isn't necessarily directed in life to spew bullcrap to the younger generation like some kind of a twisted obsession. In distant past, if you wanted to learn some kind of an art or craft skill, the best way to go would be becoming an apprentice to a skilled person, a renowned master. By helping out in simple tasks, and going further into the subject people autonomously learned the trade without any lectures, by either watching the master do his job, or helping him in the gradually more and more complex tasks. Nobody ever heard of something like a person who makes a living off passing knowledge only, and yet there were many skilled and prospering masters of many trades, while there were no schools that really had to teach them to do their job. They also did the job out of passion, and people paid them for it - now it's the other way, one man paying a lot of sheep with no motivation.

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02-05-2010 10:45 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #58
Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Ceiling Cat Wrote:Such people are convenient wage slaves, FYI.

Also, rather than from a teacher who is paid to pass on something and can be therefore bribed to provide false information, I'd rather learn from someone who's actually experienced on the stuff but isn't necessarily directed in life to spew bullcrap to the younger generation like some kind of a twisted obsession. In distant past, if you wanted to learn some kind of an art or craft skill, the best way to go would be becoming an apprentice to a skilled person, a renowned master. By helping out in simple tasks, and going further into the subject people autonomously learned the trade without any lectures, by either watching the master do his job, or helping him in the gradually more and more complex tasks. Nobody ever heard of something like a person who makes a living off passing knowledge only, and yet there were many skilled and prospering masters of many trades, while there were no schools that really had to teach them to do their job. They also did the job out of passion, and people paid them for it - now it's the other way, one man paying a lot of sheep with no motivation.

Exactly. I'm also wondering why we have to learn so much shit in school. I understand that math is important and so are literary skills. What they don't understand is even if we are forced to learn this shit, we will NOT remember it. Another point I'd like to add is they aren't teaching us the important stuff, or at least telling us why it's important. They don't teach us anything that has to do with rebellion or successfully protecting rights, they don't teach us anything that has to do with upholding a democracy and they don't teach us much about our government. Or anyone else's governments or culture for that matter. My History teacher is supposed to be teaching us History but he's been covering stuff he's not even allowed to teach us, and that, I am lucky for. It pisses me off that I can't learn shit about what's going on in the institutions that are designed to do just that.

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02-05-2010 10:54 AM
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Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

If you really want to know about what's going on into the institution and the history behind it. Here's the link to the real purposes of the school institutions- http://anti-politics.net/school/

Some details of the article you're going to see in the link. Here's a little warning when it comes to clicking the hidden quote below, you won't be happy to see that the fact that people have been deceived about the real idea behind public schools and I'm predicting that I'm right about you might be one of them before clicking on the article.

Hidden stuff:
Quote:Section 1
The Role of Schooling in Society

“When examined, answer with questions” -Graffiti Paris, 1968

Most people don’t like being told what to do. Any institution that aims to structure and regiment a person’s life is, to a certain extent, in conflict with that person. The interesting thing is that that person is not always in willful conflict with the institution. Those who are obedient and fulfill their role as students understandably try to ignore the negative effects their schooling is having on them. But who would honestly deny that these effects are quite visible? Students are taught, through the process of schooling, to be conformist, unimaginative, docile, and a great many other things that are by and large considered virtues in the working world. Stay this way and you may never feel good about yourself, but you will be congratulated by authority figures for the rest of your life. I think that the antagonistic feelings that people have toward school reflect what schools are trying to do to you. Our present situation in which compulsory schooling appears to be so natural has a historical context; the forces at work and reasons why we spend so much of our lives in school can only be adequately explained from a perspective that looks at schooling historically in terms of the means employed and the ends desired and looks at where these institutional designs leave the individual caught up in school. Such a perspective can be revolutionary only if it identifies with the individual caught up in school—with their needs and desires, their anger and frustration. We must look at how schooling fits into the whole of society and what sort of social relationships and institutions are hinged upon keeping this individual—you, for all practical purposes—acquiescent. The problem, namely, that most people do in fact do what they are told, is a problem with the totality civilized social relations.
Quote:Section 2
II
The History of Schooling

“It may be an easy thing to make a Republic; but it is a very laborious thing to make Republicans. . . .” -Horace Mann

“The family and the tribe are the schools of savages,” wrote James Mulhern.12 It would be far more accurate to say that “savages” don’t have schools, but that would perhaps bring the whole idea of schools into question, or at least get the reader to think about how tribes have been replaced by schools, families by classes. If modern schools are presented as simply more advanced forms of something that has always existed, they somehow seem more unavoidable, a part of our “human nature.” Schooling is necessary to a society to the extent that a given society constitutes a social order where individuals are subordinated to some collectivity. Government and hierarchical social relations maintain “social order” in civilized societies, and are therefore prerequisites for the development of schooling.
Quote:Section 3
III
Theories of Schooling

“Why not whip the teacher when the student misbehaves?”–Diogenes of Sinope

Schooling is seen as a good thing. Those who are uneducated are seen as lacking something essential to being fully functioning, fully human. From Plato to Comenius to Kant, humanity is something that is imposed upon the young. Even Paolo Freire, a favorite of leftists, believes in a “humanizing pedagogy,” presumably one that makes people more fully human.97 We need to spend less money on the military, more money on schools, say the progressives. Their complete identification (“we”) with the nation-state is utterly pathetic. “Humanitarianism” has saturated the left and the right: everyone is working hard oppressing themselves, all for a better humanity, a better future. Like George Bush, the progressives don’t want to leave a single child behind.98

In Hebrew there is one word for both “education” and “chastisement.”99 The powerful men of the ancient world were rather clear about what schooling entailed. Today it is of the utmost importance to conceal the role of schooling in society. Submission to authority is always the goal of schooling. The power wielded by authorities–the power to reward and punish, to habituate the individual to desired patterns of thought and action–works to integrate the individual into a hierarchical social order. 19th century prison reformers and progressive school reformers were working to make this integrating function more efficient and more total in its effects. Both groups were humanitarians because they sought to make the individual better adapted (obviously doing her a great service) to a new set of social conditions; society had to be shaped into a different form, re-formed. Society is the main actor, and individuals merely respond. To those who haven’t picked up on this clever phrasing, “society” can be understood as those who have the power to make administrative and legislative decisions. Individuals only act as a part of “society” to the extent that they submit to existent social conditions, and possibly try to influence those who hold positions of power. As John Dewey put it, “through education society can formulate its own purposes, can organize its own means and resources, and thus shape itself with definiteness and economy in the direction in which it wishes to move.”100
Quote:Section 4
IV
Notes on the Poverty of Student Life

“I suspect God of being a Leftist intellectual”–Graffiti Paris, 1968

The university is the training grounds for the future ruling class and their most dependable lackeys. Most university students–after being constantly adjusted throughout their youth–are already well adjusted to subservient roles. They are model consumers, if not always model students. The students who are content with their social role as students have accepted passivity. Some accept passivity by ignoring all politics, others by becoming politically active. The result is the same–a useful citizen–useful to others. “Modern capitalism and its spectacle allot everyone a specific role in a general passivity. The student is no exception to the rule. He has a provisional part to play, a rehearsal for his final role as an element in market society as conservative as the rest. . . Meanwhile, he basks in a schizophrenic consciousness, withdrawing into his initiation group to hide from that future.”135

Students are vaguely conscious of why universities exist and what is expected of them–most simply don’t care. To be (a)pathetic is to be fashionable. When Nietzsche said that the idealism of humanity was on the verge of deteriorating into nihilism and meaninglessness, he couldn’t have been more prophetic. Instead of the transvaluation of all values that Nietzsche called for, however, we have experienced a further devaluation (Nietzsche saw nihilism as the devaluation of the highest values—a condition at once regrettable and full of possibility). Money, too, is fashionable–how could it not be? Wilhelm Reich’s middle-class reactionary dominates the radio, the television, and popular culture in general.136 He is a person who gives the appearance of independence, of rebelliousness, while being Capital’s most faithful servant. He is a person who has been yelled at, disciplined, and brutalized during the socialization process only to grow up with no greater desire than to do the same to others. Often he is the hero of high school, the well-trained athlete, the well-trained imbecile. What Max Stirner said of college students in general clearly applies: “Trained in the most excellent manner, they go on training; drilled, they continue drilling.”137

ZZZ...
02-05-2010 11:19 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Re: How do YOU propose K-12 education should be changed?

Took me a while to read all of that. I had to listen to music so I could get through it all. It makes sense and it's pretty radical. People aren't ready to believe that.

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02-05-2010 01:49 PM
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