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Free Will and Determinism
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Elfy Offline
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Post: #1
Free Will and Determinism

A man is locked in a cell and picks up a book from a bookshelf.

Free will or determined?

RIP SCHOOL-SURVIVAL 04/07/2019
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06-29-2011 02:09 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Free Will and Determinism

In this case, determinism. Sort of. If you are locked in a cell, and there's one book, almost everyone is going to pick it up. Sure, they used their free will to decide to pick it up, but because of the circumstances, it's almost certain that he was going to do so.

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06-29-2011 10:35 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #3
Re: Free Will and Determinism

"Forced determinism" in that sense. The man will most likely pick up the book and read it if confined in a cell with nothing else to do.

Previously known as Derchin.
06-29-2011 10:57 AM
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Geeksta Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Elfy Wrote:A man is locked in a cell and picks up a book from a bookshelf.

Free will or determined?

If there is one book, determined. If there are two, then he used free will to pick which book.

Freedom is never given; it is always taken. So for the fact that you're not a slave, don't thank those in authority. Thank someone with a "bad attitude."
-Kevin Carson

sexual abuse of sheep is baaaaaaaaad
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School brings us together, but it doesn't bring us together
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We lost Vietnam cuz we didn't train our soldiers to quickscope.
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08-02-2011 05:28 AM
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Phrozen_Soul Offline
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Post: #5
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Geeksta Wrote:
Elfy Wrote:A man is locked in a cell and picks up a book from a bookshelf.

Free will or determined?

If there is one book, determined. If there are two, then he used free will to pick which book.

Why did i have a brain splosion' moment?

"Ask them no more questions, never hear them lying"

People say the problem with me is I have psychotic tendencies and care not about other human beings I don't like and or know. So?
08-02-2011 10:47 AM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #6
Re: Free Will and Determinism

What if he doesn't pick up the book? Have you even thought of that?

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08-02-2011 10:48 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #7
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Weswammy Wrote:What if he doesn't pick up the book? Have you even thought of that?
Eventually he will. Out of curiosity.

Previously known as Derchin.
08-02-2011 11:06 AM
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SH☮TGUNHEⒶRT Offline
Hi, I 'm anti-civ.

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Post: #8
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Sigh, I thought you left. None
At least you have a post that is slighty interesting.

Free will. The book and cell are influencial in his determining whether to pick the book up or not.He doesn't have to.

To be an anarchist, is to suffer greatly. To be a black woman is to suffer secretly. To be the earth, is to suffer silently.

I wish no harm on anyone, but those whose harmful ways will not stop without the same harm.

It's time we kill this cancerous system, before it kills us and everything left of gaia. Rise from our immaturity and take back our autonomy!

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08-02-2011 11:10 AM
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Blobthe15 Offline
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Post: #9
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Nope. Free will. It's only chances, some might have not, some might have. What if you couldn't read, or were scared of the book and it's contents? It's also his/her choice at which time the book can be picked up.

Hidden stuff:
Rebelnerd:
Again, I agree with you. School does teach you things. And once again, you are missing the point entirely. It's not that I disagree with school's mission or the things it teaches. What I object to is that the students are deprived of any choice in the matter. As benign as the intentions may be, any system that forces people into an environment where they have no say in their lives is a situation ripe for abuse of power.

I am Blobthe15, creator of threads that die too quickly.

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Weswammy Wrote:
The Desert Fox Wrote:Down with Soulriser! It is time for the God of Gods to become the Fallen God of Fallen Gods!
You'll end up like Prometheus, chained to a rock with a bird eating your internal organs.

Or as close as that can be recreated on an internet forum.
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(02-08-2012 01:06 PM)Lunatic Wrote:  everyone says emo is like a music style or hair stile or clothing or cutting yourself but i think its like a sexuality just like being gay but a different kind of gay just like transexuals you know
08-02-2011 12:30 PM
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Phrozen_Soul Offline
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Post: #10
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Blobthe15 Wrote:Nope. Free will. It's only chances, some might have not, some might have. What if you couldn't read, or were scared of the book and it's contents? It's also his/her choice at which time the book can be picked up.

But are you more likely to pick that certain book up when it was laying on a desk, or locked in a cell with only the book.

"Ask them no more questions, never hear them lying"

People say the problem with me is I have psychotic tendencies and care not about other human beings I don't like and or know. So?
08-02-2011 10:00 PM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #11
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Derchin Wrote:
Weswammy Wrote:What if he doesn't pick up the book? Have you even thought of that?
Eventually he will. Out of curiosity.
Prove it. He might not, there's a very small chance, maybe even so small that in practice nobody will actually not pick up the book, that he won't.

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08-02-2011 11:30 PM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #12
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Weswammy Wrote:
Derchin Wrote:
Weswammy Wrote:What if he doesn't pick up the book? Have you even thought of that?
Eventually he will. Out of curiosity.
Prove it. He might not, there's a very small chance, maybe even so small that in practice nobody will actually not pick up the book, that he won't.

Eventually he might.

Previously known as Derchin.
08-02-2011 11:36 PM
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thewake Offline
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Post: #13
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Derchin Wrote:
Weswammy Wrote:
Derchin Wrote:Eventually he will. Out of curiosity.
Prove it. He might not, there's a very small chance, maybe even so small that in practice nobody will actually not pick up the book, that he won't.

Eventually he might.
But he might not, and there's your free will.

I'm not going to say that there is or isn't free will in actuality. I need to ask a question: If we were to create a parallel universe and recreate the Big Bang exactly, and let things go exactly as they have went from that point, would people make different choices? What I mean is that we're made of matter, elements. We are chemical reactions, so would we be any different in a parallel universe that started exactly the same?

However, I think that as a matter of practicality we do have free will. I choose things. Whether or not those choices are actually "free" doesn't matter to me, it very much seems like they are. However, ultimately I'm just reacting to stimuli.

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08-02-2011 11:54 PM
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Blobthe15 Offline
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Post: #14
Re: Free Will and Determinism

Phrozen_Soul Wrote:
Blobthe15 Wrote:Nope. Free will. It's only chances, some might have not, some might have. What if you couldn't read, or were scared of the book and it's contents? It's also his/her choice at which time the book can be picked up.

But are you more likely to pick that certain book up when it was laying on a desk, or locked in a cell with only the book.


Probably, but it is still free will. Chances, Chances.

Hidden stuff:
Rebelnerd:
Again, I agree with you. School does teach you things. And once again, you are missing the point entirely. It's not that I disagree with school's mission or the things it teaches. What I object to is that the students are deprived of any choice in the matter. As benign as the intentions may be, any system that forces people into an environment where they have no say in their lives is a situation ripe for abuse of power.

I am Blobthe15, creator of threads that die too quickly.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: 58jT6.gif]
Weswammy Wrote:
The Desert Fox Wrote:Down with Soulriser! It is time for the God of Gods to become the Fallen God of Fallen Gods!
You'll end up like Prometheus, chained to a rock with a bird eating your internal organs.

Or as close as that can be recreated on an internet forum.
[Image: oC8W8.png]

(02-08-2012 01:06 PM)Lunatic Wrote:  everyone says emo is like a music style or hair stile or clothing or cutting yourself but i think its like a sexuality just like being gay but a different kind of gay just like transexuals you know
08-03-2011 01:11 AM
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Geeksta Offline
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Post: #15
Re: Free Will and Determinism

The only way it could not be free will is if it were inevitable he would pick it up then, in that way.
Weswammy Wrote:I'm not going to say that there is or isn't free will in actuality. I need to ask a question: If we were to create a parallel universe and recreate the Big Bang exactly, and let things go exactly as they have went from that point, would people make different choices? What I mean is that we're made of matter, elements. We are chemical reactions, so would we be any different in a parallel universe that started exactly the same?

Quantam physics actually renders that a moot point, because it rules out that recreating identical circumstances produces identical outcomes.

Freedom is never given; it is always taken. So for the fact that you're not a slave, don't thank those in authority. Thank someone with a "bad attitude."
-Kevin Carson

sexual abuse of sheep is baaaaaaaaad
-BaronVonStrangle

School brings us together, but it doesn't bring us together
-Derchin

We lost Vietnam cuz we didn't train our soldiers to quickscope.
-gore goroth
08-05-2011 12:35 PM
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sillysparrowness Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Free Will and Determinism

Free will, of course. It is very possible to make the concious decision to never pick up the book. Or happens to be not remotely interested in books. Why would you do something just because theoretically could, even if you are not interested? Oh the things I can think of I'll never do, even if I easily could, but choose not to...

I'm not a native speaker, please be lenient.
11-03-2011 03:26 AM
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Efs Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Free Will and Determinism

Free will, he will MOST LIKELY pick up the book, but in the end it's his choice to do so resulting in free will.

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
11-03-2011 05:56 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Free Will and Determinism

(08-02-2011 11:06 AM)Derchin Wrote:  
Weswammy Wrote:What if he doesn't pick up the book? Have you even thought of that?
Eventually he will. Out of curiosity.

What if he's illiterate?
11-03-2011 06:24 AM
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Fractomancer Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Free Will and Determinism

Determinism.
Even if there were two books to choose from, his decision would be just a product of his brain mechanisms' eventual conclusion.
The closest thing to a free will is logic since it doesn't depend on uncontrollable impulses.

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11-08-2011 05:29 AM
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Efs Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Free Will and Determinism

But he can just easily avoid the book...free will...

(01-10-2012 02:15 PM)Maelstrom Wrote:  Efs, your nihilism is beautiful.
11-11-2011 08:30 PM
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LOON_ATTIC Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Free Will and Determinism

I believe this discussion is rather pointless. In the present/future "free will" does matter but in the past it happened already so you can't "change" anything... I'd say free will is the ability to think and make choices, and without it we'd be vegetables.

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11-13-2011 03:39 AM
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