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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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Learning
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యూజర్ పేరు Offline
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Post: #1
Learning

If learning is not memorization, then what is it?
03-10-2010 01:11 PM
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LOON_ATTIC Offline
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Post: #2
Re: Learning

Understanding how shit works.

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03-10-2010 01:28 PM
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యూజర్ పేరు Offline
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Post: #3
Re: Learning

Lunatic Wrote:Understanding how shit works.
Yeah, but wouldn't understanding also be memorizing? Like, "so that's how a computer works! I understand now. I'll remember these facts so I can inform others."
03-10-2010 01:30 PM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #4
Re: Learning

Memorizing is a part of learning. It's when we are forced to memorize things just for the sake of memorizing them that it becomes a problem. When I learned HTML, I memorized it. I didn't just sit down and print out a sheet with a list of codes on it, and go over it. I simply started coding, and every time I wanted to know how to do something, I looked it up. Eventually it just becomes natural.

Learning is the process of using memorization, cognitive abilities, reading abilities and other abilities to grasp a concept, or details of a concept. I think. Maybe thats a bad definition.

I suppose we do learn in school, we just don't learn well in school. In other words, the school is a bad place to learn. And some of the things we learn there aren't worth learning or are lies.

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03-10-2010 02:01 PM
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psychopath Offline
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Post: #5
Re: Learning

Absentinsomniac Wrote:Memorizing is a part of learning. It's when we are forced to memorize things just for the sake of memorizing them that it becomes a problem. When I learned HTML, I memorized it. I didn't just sit down and print out a sheet with a list of codes on it, and go over it. I simply started coding, and every time I wanted to know how to do something, I looked it up. Eventually it just becomes natural.

Learning is the process of using memorization, cognitive abilities, reading abilities and other abilities to grasp a concept, or details of a concept. I think. Maybe thats a bad definition.

I suppose we do learn in school, we just don't learn well in school. In other words, the school is a bad place to learn. And some of the things we learn there aren't worth learning or are lies.

Seconded
03-10-2010 04:55 PM
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Faby Offline
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Post: #6
Re: Learning

Absentinsomniac Wrote:I suppose we do learn in school.

We can learn stuff wherever there is information, but it matters what way it's presented to us in. And, of course, individual tastes and preferences. For example, I prefer learning stuff from the net than from a drone teacher in a hot classroom. But if I'm bored, and keep my ears open, sometimes it so happens that a teacher actually says something interesting.

Schools are mostly like:

1. "KEEDS, this is hao communist economies developed." [Blathers on for two hours.]

2. "FOAR NEXT TIEM, memorise everything mentioned in the book, and please don't ask questions, the Ministry gave us a strict lesson plan that we have to obey, and we aren't allowed to dawdle."

3. Kids learn nothing.

Let go of all desire for the common good, and the good becomes common as grass.

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03-10-2010 05:40 PM
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Ceiling Cat Offline
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Re: Learning

To take coding as an example, memorizing will make you learn the language and instructions but you need to learn the basic understanding of code yourself. Schools can't teach you how to build your own app, you need to experiment and find your own ways to do so.

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03-10-2010 05:45 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #8
Re: Learning

Learning is builidng a useful model of the world in your mind.

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03-11-2010 09:30 AM
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Liquid Offline
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Post: #9
Re: Learning

You are all thinking of "memorization" in modern, even Prussian, terms....

Memorization was historically seen as different than learning facts. Back before the twisted sadist Prussianists took control of the educational system Memorization was it's own subject.

We often think of "memorization" negatively nowadays because the definition of the word has been changing over the last hundred years due to Nazi Prussianist influence.

Memorization is not mindlessly repeating words until they are engraved into your skull. Memorization is not understanding something. Neither is memorization the act of learning something. Memorization has historically been it's own subject for the last 3000 years, it is a subject to be learned, and never a part of learning a subject. Real Memorization died 100 years ago, everyone just uses the word without understanding its actual meaning.

To understand want memorization was before the Nazis took over, you'd need to research the Ars Memorativa / Method of Loci.

Some modern phrases come from the old Method of Loci: "rabbit trail", "in the first place" , "point one" "point two" "point three".

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03-12-2010 07:39 AM
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FindTheLight Offline
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Post: #10
Re: Learning

Memorising? I think anything physical, a skill in sport for example, is down to muscle memory. I don't know why this term is used because I do not think muscles can memorise anything. However I believe it is when things can be done without thinking, eventhough they may require thought, effort and concentration in the beginning.

I can't think of an example right now apart from those people who twiddle pens in their hands.

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03-12-2010 07:52 AM
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Absnt Offline
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Post: #11
Re: Learning

FindTheLight Wrote:Memorising? I think anything physical, a skill in sport for example, is down to muscle memory. I don't know why this term is used because I do not think muscles can memorise anything. However I believe it is when things can be done without thinking, eventhough they may require thought, effort and concentration in the beginning.

I can't think of an example right now apart from those people who twiddle pens in their hands.

The connections in the brain become so strong, you basically do them without thinking. So I've been told.

Like in karate, we drilled high blocks until the instructor could come around and try to hit our heads with a foam stick but we would block without thinking.

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03-12-2010 12:06 PM
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dark_castle Offline
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Post: #12
Re: Learning

Absentinsomniac Wrote:Memorizing is a part of learning. It's when we are forced to memorize things just for the sake of memorizing them that it becomes a problem. When I learned HTML, I memorized it. I didn't just sit down and print out a sheet with a list of codes on it, and go over it. I simply started coding, and every time I wanted to know how to do something, I looked it up. Eventually it just becomes natural.

Learning is the process of using memorization, cognitive abilities, reading abilities and other abilities to grasp a concept, or details of a concept. I think. Maybe thats a bad definition.

I suppose we do learn in school, we just don't learn well in school. In other words, the school is a bad place to learn. And some of the things we learn there aren't worth learning or are lies.

I think learning is supposed to be natural. When people try to force things on us on what should we learn, then it doesn't really become learning, it's just knowing just for the sake of getting the hell done with it. Learning is being able to understand it beyond just mere knowing the facts or storing the facts in your head. In school, we are forced to memorize a lot of things in certain subjects like history (but at the end of the day, we can safely say that we've known a lot of facts or have memorized a lot of facts, but never learned) but also like in math, although we don't really 'memorize' facts, we are forced to know the whole mechanism of it - just for the sake of passing the "tests" and "exams" - so learning really didnt take place cause we have just known it just for the sake of passing, but it's not really genuine learning at all. I think there's a key difference between just-knowing and learning (and memorizing and learning), same as there's a key difference between knowledge and wisdom.

I think a great majority of people are always onto the Image. so if they see kids memorizing, or being forced to know facts or things, then they take "tests" and "exams" and get high grades afterwards, they're convinced that they're "learning". This is simple shallowness. People love seeing what's on the surface, so these same people, I think, will have a hard time seeing what real learning is.
03-22-2010 10:00 PM
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AWOL Offline
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Post: #13
Re: Learning

Learning is memorization, down to the basic concept. Memorization should not be negative. How many people here memorized game codes, the hadouken input, the first few numbers of Pi or their phone number? How many of you did those willingly? Exactly.

By the way, without looking it up:

3.14159265323(7?)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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03-23-2010 12:51 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #14
Re: Learning

Memorizing is fine if it's happening as a side effect of you reading and enjoying something, or re-reading something over and over because you like to read it...

Memorizing is not fine if you're using some or other method to trick your brain into remembering it because you can't remember it naturally because you can't stand it.

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03-23-2010 01:05 AM
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magikarp Offline
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Post: #15
Re: Learning

AWOL Wrote:How many people here memorized game codes, the hadouken input, the first few numbers of Pi or their phone number? How many of you did those willingly? Exactly.
I don't actually know my phone number here yet, and it'll be time to go home for the summer soon. I just have it written down in my purse. Generally, I memorize as little as possible because I'm bad at it, then fill in the blanks with whatever I do remember and basic reasoning. (Mind, that doesn't work for arbitrary things like phone numbers.)

Memorization is useful, though. I just think it should, in most cases, be considered to be a tool rather than a goal.

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03-23-2010 05:17 AM
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genuine anarchist Offline
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Post: #16
Re: Learning

Learning is understanding and applying information, whether it's skills (jobs, activities, other physical tasks), ideas (discussions, morals, how to live life), and emotional intelligence (relating to other people). That's my basic definition of learning, and I know I've learned when I look back and see I've enjoyed the process. Or at least gotten something useful out of it.

Looking back at school, I see that every experience should be used for learning, good or back. Sure, I didn't learn anything useful in the classroom, but I learned not to believe everything I was told in spite of the fact that those telling me were supposedly older and wiser, not all adults are trustworthy, there are more options besides conforming, and that the world is full of endless possibilities. But I learned this through resistance after suffering a physical and emotional breakdown a few months ago when the school year started. I started to reflect and realized that I was wasting my youth trying to achieve perfection in school without striving for anything meaningful. My GPA has dropped since then, but I have traveled more, read more, questioned more, and gotten out ot my comfort zone by talking to more people. I'm still in this process, but I've realized that there are so many interpretations, but no one really has all the answers. I'm comfortable just being an observer, but am I missing out by becoming blase?
05-01-2010 01:51 PM
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Prince Rilian Offline
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Post: #17
Re: Learning

AWOL Wrote:By the way, without looking it up:

3.14159265323(7?)

Correct me if I'm wrong.
3.
14159
26535
89793
23846
26433
83279
50288
41971
69399
3.

I striked through the part you got wrong.

I did mine from memorization, too.

Life is good. Jeta është e mirë. Goingcrazy
Die lewe is goed.
Het leven is goed.

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Leela: I guess I would have to say, I hate you!
05-02-2010 03:45 AM
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