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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.
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flann Offline
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Post: #31
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Mother backhanded me when I was 8, and i fell to the floor. I was bleeding...

It didn't change my mind; it stored up more hate. Now, if she does that, she could be hurt by me.

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09-22-2011 12:34 PM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #32
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

flann Wrote:baaaaaaaaaaw.

Fixed

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09-22-2011 02:42 PM
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Post: #33
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Nah.

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09-22-2011 02:46 PM
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Post: #34
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Reading this thread makes me want to hug you guys and brutally murder your parents all at the same time...

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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09-22-2011 07:43 PM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #35
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

SoulRiser Wrote:Reading this thread makes me want to hug you guys and brutally murder your parents all at the same time...

:<_<: :>_>:

Why? I deserved it.

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No trolling. I was a horrible child growing up. I'm surprised my step father never went for the wire coat hanger like my aunt. If my kids ever try to treat me the way I treated my stepfather I would beat them senseless.
09-23-2011 04:16 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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Post: #36
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Ayliana Wrote:
SoulRiser Wrote:Reading this thread makes me want to hug you guys and brutally murder your parents all at the same time...

:<_<: :>_>:

Why? I deserved it.

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No trolling. I was a horrible child growing up. I'm surprised my step father never went for the wire coat hanger like my aunt. If my kids ever try to treat me the way I treated my stepfather I would beat them senseless.

LoL damn your parents brainwashed the shit out of you. I actually do feel bad for you.

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09-23-2011 04:41 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #37
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Quote:Why? I deserved it.
Well, that sure explains a lot.

Nobody deserves to be hit or smacked around for any reason. If anything, that's probably the reason you became "a horrible child"... you had horrible role models. How were you supposed to know not to emulate your own parents?

"If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them." - Dalai Lama
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09-23-2011 04:46 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #38
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:Why? I deserved it.
Well, that sure explains a lot.

Nobody deserves to be hit or smacked around for any reason. If anything, that's probably the reason you became "a horrible child"... you had horrible role models. How were you supposed to know not to emulate your own parents?

[Image: 129056116659839610.jpg]

I threatened my sister once with a kitchen knife. Care to explain to me where I emulated that from? 'Cause it wasn't my parents that's for sure.
09-23-2011 05:00 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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Post: #39
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Ayliana Wrote:
SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:Why? I deserved it.
Well, that sure explains a lot.

Nobody deserves to be hit or smacked around for any reason. If anything, that's probably the reason you became "a horrible child"... you had horrible role models. How were you supposed to know not to emulate your own parents?

[Image: 129056116659839610.jpg]

I threatened my sister once with a kitchen knife. Care to explain to me where I emulated that from? 'Cause it wasn't my parents that's for sure.

Emulation doesn't have to be exact. If your parents were violent toward you, you would be violent too. My brother threatened me with a kitchen knife once. Why? We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised. My parents never actually threatened him with a knife but when we didn't do what they wanted (which was often nonsense) they would use violence and force to make us comply. Thus my brother wanted me to do something, I wouldn't and he tried to use violence/force.

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09-23-2011 05:10 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #40
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:Emulation doesn't have to be exact. If your parents were violent toward you, you would be violent too. My brother threatened me with a kitchen knife once. Why? We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised. My parents never actually threatened him with a knife but when we didn't do what they wanted (which was often nonsense) they would use violence and force to make us comply. Thus my brother wanted me to do something, I wouldn't and he tried to use violence/force.

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The wizard of oz called, he want's his straw man back.

There's a reason murderers and rapists are usually unsuccessful when they attempt to blame their upbringing for their criminality. What was done to you in the past is no excuse for what you do now in the present. And even in there rare times when it is, it's still a huge leap to go from a spanking to a shanking.
09-23-2011 05:18 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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Post: #41
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Quote:There's a reason murderers and rapists are usually unsuccessful when they attempt to blame their upbringing for their criminality. What was done to you in the past is no excuse for what you do now in the present. And even in there rare times when it is, it's still a huge leap to go from a spanking to a shanking.

Too bad I never said past experiences excuse present actions. I think you are the one who needs to return your strawman. Most murderers and rapists can thank their upbringing for the way they act. It does not excuse it though. Example, if Hitler was raised by caring loving parents he would not have grown up to commit such horrible acts. Someone else might have but not him. This does not excuse his actions though, understand that.

Humans are resilient. ESPECIALLY children. Most people are spanked, most people end up being good people. Spanking increases the likelihood of many different negative behaviors. It does not guarantee it. I made the mistake in my post forgetting to explain that the actions of my parents increased the chance of aggression in me and my brother... it did not guarantee it.

In your case as in mine, it is likely that the aggression our parents treated us with caused us to be aggressive ourselves.

You will not win this argument btw.

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09-23-2011 05:29 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #42
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:Too bad I never said past experiences excuse present actions.

O rlly?

Quote:Emulation doesn't have to be exact. If your parents were violent toward you, you would be violent too. My brother threatened me with a kitchen knife once. Why? We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised.

You made the excuse for your brother's violent behavior towards you that he had no control of himself because of the way he was raised. You blatantly laid the blame for your brothers behavior on your parents. That is exactly what criminals do in court when they're forced to explain their behavior.

You may not have said it directly, but you still said it.

Quote:You will not win this argument btw.

Bitch I just did.

Biggrin

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09-23-2011 05:50 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Quote:Emulation doesn't have to be exact. If your parents were violent toward you, you would be violent too. My brother threatened me with a kitchen knife once. Why? We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised.

Where did I say this is a legitimate excuse? No where? That's what I thought. It was an explanation. I was giving a possible reason for why it happened. I never said, "well since that was how we were raised we are excused!" Never did I even hint at that. You might want to read the book you posted a pic of... it could help you out.

Quote:You blatantly laid the blame for your brothers behavior on your parents

He was seven. Most seven year olds probably won't use a knife to threaten someone. He was unable to seek out a reasonable solution and control himself probably because my parents never gave use those tools and instead relied on force.

Quote:That is exactly what criminals do in court when they're forced to explain their behavior.

Hell most likely he is right. It still doesn't excuse his behavior.

Quote:You may not have said it directly, but you still said it.

You are obsessed with this idea that "explaining a behavior" means "making an excuse". Just like my freaking mom. Criminals have many reasons for why they do criminal activities. Those reasons do not excuse their actions though.

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09-23-2011 05:58 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #44
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:
Quote:Emulation doesn't have to be exact. If your parents were violent toward you, you would be violent too. My brother threatened me with a kitchen knife once. Why? We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised.

Where did I say this is a legitimate excuse?

when you said that his behavior was a result of how you two were raised. Had you just said that he had poor impulse control it would've been a mere explanation to the event. But the moment you brought your upbringing into the picture it becomes an attempt to pass the blame onto your parents.
09-23-2011 06:45 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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Post: #45
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Ayliana Wrote:
UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:
Quote:Emulation doesn't have to be exact. If your parents were violent toward you, you would be violent too. My brother threatened me with a kitchen knife once. Why? We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised.

Where did I say this is a legitimate excuse?

when you said that his behavior was a result of how you two were raised. Had you just said that he had poor impulse control it would've been a mere explanation to the event. But the moment you brought your upbringing into the picture it becomes an attempt to pass the blame onto your parents.

If I had said "he has poor impulse control." going by your argument that would be an excuse too. Sociopaths are either born with no conscious or just abused so badly they develop a shitty one. Either way there is no excuse for killing people in cold blood. Yet, those are two explanations for why someone killed a bunch of people. Whether my brother has poor impulse control or was raised to the point where he had poor impulse control, they both would be reasons. Not excuses.

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09-23-2011 06:55 AM
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Aya Offline
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Post: #46
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:If I had said "he has poor impulse control." going by your argument that would be an excuse too. Sociopaths are either born with no conscious or just abused so badly they develop a shitty one. Either way there is no excuse for killing people in cold blood. Yet, those are two explanations for why someone killed a bunch of people. Whether my brother has poor impulse control or was raised to the point where he had poor impulse control, they both would be reasons. Not excuses.

ex·cuse/ikˈskyo͞oz/
Verb: Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
Noun: A reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense

ex·pla·na·tionNoun/ˌekspləˈnāSHən/
1. A statement or account that makes something clear.
2. A reason or justification given for an action or belief.

"He has poor impulse control" is a statement of your brothers behavior. " We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised." is an excuse. And yes, there is overlap in the definition of these two words. But not in this case. Not when you clearly attached blame for your brothers behavior on the way your parents raised you.
09-23-2011 07:20 AM
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Post: #47
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Ayliana Wrote:
UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:If I had said "he has poor impulse control." going by your argument that would be an excuse too. Sociopaths are either born with no conscious or just abused so badly they develop a shitty one. Either way there is no excuse for killing people in cold blood. Yet, those are two explanations for why someone killed a bunch of people. Whether my brother has poor impulse control or was raised to the point where he had poor impulse control, they both would be reasons. Not excuses.

ex·cuse/ikˈskyo͞oz/
Verb: Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
Noun: A reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense

ex·pla·na·tionNoun/ˌekspləˈnāSHən/
1. A statement or account that makes something clear.
2. A reason or justification given for an action or belief.

"He has poor impulse control" is a statement of your brothers behavior. " We had very poor control of our emotions and anger because of how we were raised." is an excuse. And yes, there is overlap in the definition of these two words. But not in this case. Not when you clearly attached blame for your brothers behavior on the way your parents raised you.
nit·pick·ing/ˈnitˌpikiNG/
Adjective: Looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, esp. in order to criticize unnecessarily.

Ayliana I believe you are losing track of the argument as you look for smaller and smaller points, desperately searching for anything you can get right, clinging to every grain of truth you can hold on to. In other words I suggest you look at the bigger picture of what he is arguing, mainly that parents' violence can, and often does, lead to their kids being violent.

Go to work. Send your kids to school. Follow fashion. Act normal. Walk on the pavement. Watch TV. Save for your old age. Obey the law. Repeat after me: "I am free."

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09-23-2011 07:31 AM
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Miller0700 Offline
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Post: #48
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Ayliana Wrote:There's a reason murderers and rapists are usually unsuccessful when they attempt to blame their upbringing for their criminality. What was done to you in the past is no excuse for what you do now in the present. And even in there rare times when it is, it's still a huge leap to go from a spanking to a shanking.

But past events shape our behavior today.

No one ever wakes up and say "Hmm, I feel like killing people today". There has to be a reason for their behavior.

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09-23-2011 07:48 AM
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Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Quote:ex·cuse/ikˈskyo͞oz/
Verb: Attempt to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offense); seek to defend or justify.
Noun: A reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense

ex·pla·na·tionNoun/ˌekspləˈnāSHən/
1. A statement or account that makes something clear.
2. A reason or justification given for an action or belief.

You basically supported me by posting the definitions. My intention in explaining the negatives of some types of parenting was to make the reasoning behind some peoples actions clearer. I never attempted to avoid blaming them or justify their actions.

This man molested a child, likely because his dad molested him as a boy. That does not excuse his behavior.

This woman murdered her kids, likely because she has very poor control of herself. That does not excuse her behavior.

This teen shot up his school, likely because of constant bullying and the compulsory nature of school. That does not excuse his behavior.

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09-23-2011 08:52 AM
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Post: #50
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:My intention in explaining the negatives of some types of parenting was to make the reasoning behind some peoples actions clearer. I never attempted to avoid blaming them or justify their actions.

This man molested a child, likely because his dad molested him as a boy. That does not excuse his behavior.

This woman murdered her kids, likely because she has very poor control of herself. That does not excuse her behavior.

This teen shot up his school, likely because of constant bullying and the compulsory nature of school. That does not excuse his behavior.

But those things make them more likely to do it. You don't see people who haven't been affected by these things do them.

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09-23-2011 08:54 AM
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Post: #51
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Derchin Wrote:
UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:You basically supported me by posting the definitions. My intention in explaining the negatives of some types of parenting was to make the reasoning behind some peoples actions clearer. I never attempted to avoid blaming them or justify their actions.

This man molested a child, likely because his dad molested him as a boy. That does not excuse his behavior.

This woman murdered her kids, likely because she has very poor control of herself. That does not excuse her behavior.

This teen shot up his school, likely because of constant bullying and the compulsory nature of school. That does not excuse his behavior.

But those things make them more likely to do it. You don't see people who haven't been affected by these things do them.

Of course... I know it does. Take some of the worst humans on the planet and give them to a loving, respectful, and caring family. Chances are they wouldn't grow up to kill/rape/molest. Yet, that isn't an excuse if one does go out and kill/rape/molest anyone.

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09-23-2011 08:57 AM
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Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:Of course... I know it does. Take some of the worst humans on the planet and give them to a loving, respectful, and caring family. Chances are they wouldn't grow up to kill/rape/molest. Yet, that isn't an excuse if one does go out and kill/rape/molest anyone.

Yeah, in that case.

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09-23-2011 09:03 AM
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Post: #53
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Derchin Wrote:
UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:Of course... I know it does. Take some of the worst humans on the planet and give them to a loving, respectful, and caring family. Chances are they wouldn't grow up to kill/rape/molest. Yet, that isn't an excuse if one does go out and kill/rape/molest anyone.

Yeah, in that case.

I also don't believe in the whole "der debt to society = jail time" I feel that if one causes un-consented and un-reasoned harm to another the perpetrator owes a debt to the victim (or the victims family) that should be determined by courts. Then instead of jail time they should be rehabilitated. If rehabilitation is impossible and the person is a threat to society free or if the crime they committed was so heinous and irredeemable (the Norway killer, Hitler, basically mass murderers) then they should be put to death. <--- That last sentence I don't feel is necessary, lifetime locked away works just as well.

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09-23-2011 09:11 AM
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Post: #54
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:
Derchin Wrote:
UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:Of course... I know it does. Take some of the worst humans on the planet and give them to a loving, respectful, and caring family. Chances are they wouldn't grow up to kill/rape/molest. Yet, that isn't an excuse if one does go out and kill/rape/molest anyone.

Yeah, in that case.

I also don't believe in the whole "der debt to society = jail time" I feel that if one causes un-consented and un-reasoned harm to another the perpetrator owes a debt to the victim (or the victims family) that should be determined by courts. Then instead of jail time they should be rehabilitated. If rehabilitation is impossible and the person is a threat to society free or if the crime they committed was so heinous and irredeemable (the Norway killer, Hitler, basically mass murderers) then they should be put to death. <--- That last sentence I don't feel is necessary, lifetime locked away works just as well.
I think that prisoners should decide if they want death or lifetime jail.

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Again, I agree with you. School does teach you things. And once again, you are missing the point entirely. It's not that I disagree with school's mission or the things it teaches. What I object to is that the students are deprived of any choice in the matter. As benign as the intentions may be, any system that forces people into an environment where they have no say in their lives is a situation ripe for abuse of power.

I am Blobthe15, creator of threads that die too quickly.

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You'll end up like Prometheus, chained to a rock with a bird eating your internal organs.

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(02-08-2012 01:06 PM)Lunatic Wrote:  everyone says emo is like a music style or hair stile or clothing or cutting yourself but i think its like a sexuality just like being gay but a different kind of gay just like transexuals you know
09-23-2011 09:37 AM
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Post: #55
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Blobthe15 Wrote:I think that prisoners should decide if they want death or lifetime jail.

War is stupid.
09-23-2011 10:31 AM
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Phrozen_Soul Offline
From Now Until Velociraptor

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Post: #56
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

flann Wrote:
Blobthe15 Wrote:I think that prisoners should decide if they want death or lifetime jail.

Hmm. You know, a while ago I supported Death Sentence. But I don't know.

"Death is an escape"

Basically your letting them go from punishment. Whether or not you believe in Hell it still feels like he should have gotten more.

I suppose if we didn't focus on killing our convicts "painlessly" and "instantly". Ever hear of Bloody Mary of Madagascar?
Boiled people alive, threw off cliffs tied to a pole, burned alive, that's how we should do it.
Or go the medieval style of flogging to death with an iron pole.

"Ask them no more questions, never hear them lying"

People say the problem with me is I have psychotic tendencies and care not about other human beings I don't like and or know. So?
09-23-2011 11:34 AM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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Post: #57
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Phrozen_Soul Wrote:
flann Wrote:
Blobthe15 Wrote:I think that prisoners should decide if they want death or lifetime jail.

Hmm. You know, a while ago I supported Death Sentence. But I don't know.

"Death is an escape"

Basically your letting them go from punishment. Whether or not you believe in Hell it still feels like he should have gotten more.

I suppose if we didn't focus on killing our convicts "painlessly" and "instantly". Ever hear of Bloody Mary of Madagascar?
Boiled people alive, threw off cliffs tied to a pole, burned alive, that's how we should do it.
Or go the medieval style of flogging to death with an iron pole.

Well it is my opinion that we should never kill or imprison people for punishment or torture purposes. Just safety reasons. For most (not all) if they can be rehabilitated that is better so they can pay back their debt to the victim.

Live until you die
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09-23-2011 11:50 AM
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Phrozen_Soul Offline
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Post: #58
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:Well it is my opinion that we should never kill or imprison people for punishment or torture purposes. Just safety reasons. For most (not all) if they can be rehabilitated that is better so they can pay back their debt to the victim.

I'm talking extremes like you mentioned - Hitler, Norway Killer, Catherine of Russia, Bloody Mary of Madagascar, Stalin, ect ect.

"Ask them no more questions, never hear them lying"

People say the problem with me is I have psychotic tendencies and care not about other human beings I don't like and or know. So?
09-23-2011 12:22 PM
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UnschoolShqiponjë Offline
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Post: #59
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

Phrozen_Soul Wrote:
UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:Well it is my opinion that we should never kill or imprison people for punishment or torture purposes. Just safety reasons. For most (not all) if they can be rehabilitated that is better so they can pay back their debt to the victim.

I'm talking extremes like you mentioned - Hitler, Norway Killer, Catherine of Russia, Bloody Mary of Madagascar, Stalin, ect ect.

People like that... just a bullet to the head, no need to torture them.

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09-23-2011 03:14 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #60
Re: It astonishes me that people STILL think spanking is good.

I would be interested in seeing what happens if mass murderers (Hitler, etc) were put into some kind of loving small society where they are treated with respect regardless of what they did... kinda like "we know you hurt a lot of people, but we forgive you and still love you anyway". I would just be really curious to see what would happen if they stay there for an extended period of time.

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