Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Abolish the Age of Consent
Author Message
TheVanishingSnowDove Offline
There is no cause of anything

Posts: 305
Joined: Jan 2017
Thanks: 1369
Given 167 thank(s) in 127 post(s)
Post: #1
Abolish the Age of Consent

http://www.revleft.com/vb/threads/16751-...-rid-of-it
Quote:My Views on Age of Consent

First of all, I should like to say that there is no topic too controversial about which to talk, because the controversial topics are always the most important ones. Second, there is no argument, no person, no idea, no law, no moral, no theory, no anything, which is above criticism, including this very post. And I choose to talk about a subject which is viewed by many to be "too controversial" to talk about. And I shall criticise a law and a moral position which many of its proponents seem to view as "above criticism". Just bear in mind that nothing is "too controversial" or "above criticism".

The difficulty about writing this was that throughout I had to argue against myself. Sometimes it is hard to think about all the good arguments against my own argument, and then refute those counter-arguments. The counter-arguments get progressively harder for me to refute. But I refute them nonetheless.

To proceed.

As always, I must firstly define the key term. The key term here is "Age of Consent". "Age of Consent" is that age at which an individual may legally experience sexual sensations with an adult, i.e., consent to sexual contact with an adult. Whatever age is decided as the "age of consent" is that age at which a person is said to be able to make an "informed decision".

There are several problems with "Age of Consent". To wit:

1. The problem of the "individual".

An individual is a person. Children are persons. An anatomically correct person can experience sexual sensations. Hence a child can experience sexual sensations. Sexual sensations are considered as pleasurable by the person experiencing them in the majority of instances. (There are some rare cases in which a person feels emotional pain seemingly as a result of sexual sensations. But this is more likely the result of aversive associations with sex - caused by perhaps a traumatic sexual experience, and not by the sexual sensations themselves.) Hence a child can derive pleasure from sexual sensations. If they do not appear as pleasurable, it is in fact other sensations which are confounded with the sexual sensation, such as the aversive feeling which is induced by unwanted force. Force is the undesirable sensation, and not sex itself. There is no sensible reason why the individual, which includes the child, must not experience pleasurable sensations that he is biologically capable of experiencing.

"It is harmful," the reader might respond. "Surely you agree that sex between a young person and an adult is harmful."

"Harm" includes emotional and physical harm. What type of harm is caused by sexual sensations? Obviously it is not physical harm, because people have sex all the time without experiencing physical harm. Physical harm may exist alongside sex, but it is not sex itself. Is it emotional harm, then? But in fact, it is contradictory that a sensation which is emotionally pleasurable can be emotionally harmful. And as I have shown above, sexual sensations are pleasurable sensations.

"But it causes delayed emotional harm," the reader will suggest. "It may not have caused harm when it happened, but in the future it is very likely to cause emotional harm."

This means that, after a person indulges in the sexual act, he might experience emotional harm in the future, perhaps as a fully developed adult, because he was "too young" when he engaged in that activity. There is no delayed emotional harm resulting from sex. There is simply no evidence that sex induces deferred emotional harm. It is always the use of force which is made use of alongside the sexual act which causes the delayed emotional harm - it is never sex itself. Force and sexual sensations are being confused. Sexual sensations, which are pleasurable, are, by the very definition of "pleasurable", not harmful. What might be harmful are acts which occur concombitantly with the sexual act, such as force, coercion, inter alia. The experience of sexual sensations, being a sensation of pleasure, is not itself harmful.

"But sex between one of non-consenting age and an adult is necessarily coercive," replies the reader. "Therefore, it is harmful - whether the harm be delayed or no."

This leads us to the second problem.

2. The problem of "consent".

Our reader seems to believe that children cannot consent. But children can consent. Consent consists merely of "I do", or "Yes." It is irrational to believe that children cannot "consent". It is clear that, in this sense, the child can consent to sex just as easily as anybody else can.

"Technically, yes, children can consent. But they can also consent to things which are harmful to them. Thus, they must informedly consent. The age of consent is the age at which one can make an informed decision. This is what we mean by age of consent."

Of course. But can an adult not consent to something which can harm him? Is he not capable of making an uninformed decision? Must the adult, therefore, be refused all sex, because it is possible he will make an uninformed decision?

"Of course adults can make uninformed decisions, but surely you cannot deny that there is a correlation between informedness and age. And the correlation is such that the adult is far more informed about decisions concerning sex than the child."

It has not been denied that there is a correlation between informedness and age. But what is the child not informed about - about which he needs to be informed - to be able properly to have sex? Why can he not be informed about this? Are his mental faculties really that defective?

"What is there in sex that he is not informed about that he needs to be informed about? Protection from sexually transmitted diseases. Rapists. Etc. Can a child be informed about these? No."

First: The sexually transmitted disease is not such a difficult concept to get one's mind round. In the Netherlands, for example, children as young as eleven are fully informed about this. It is purely an educational matter. What is more, the type of relationship about which we are speaking is not a one-sided one: the adult ought to use "protection" as well. Everyone on Earth can, and must, be informed about "protection". If the adult did not use "protection", would you say that he would not be informed, and therefore cannot consent to sex? By your own logic you must admit this. And what about before there was a significant problem with sexually transmitted diseases, hundreds of years ago? Or in some isolated culture, in which there is no history of sexually trasmitted diseases? The child would not need to be informed about STDs in such examples (even though, given education, he certainly can).

Third: As regards rape, is my informedness about it going to change anything? If someone is going to prey upon me in an alley, it makes no difference how "informed" I am about the concept of rape. The key is not how informed one is about the existence of rape (though that certainly is desirable&#33, but how to avoid dangerous situations. The child must therefore be carefully guarded by his parents. And he must be educated about, and thereby protected from, the dangers of the world, including rape, by his parents.

Second: I suspect that you are once again thinking about the "correlation between informedness and age". Sexually transmitted diseases aside, a child no more needs to be informed about sex to enjoy sex than he needs to be informed about poetry to enjoy poetry. For indulging in both is a pleasurable experience. It is not as if he will suddenly be harmed by poetry if he is not "informed" about rhythm, meter, the anapest, etc. And the same is true (perhaps truer) with music. Sex, like enjoying music, is a pleasurable sensation. There is no inherent harm with it, irrespective of the person's age who partakes in it. There is harm involved in force - and this must be stressed - but not sex itself.

Third: If there is not a particular age at which a person develops the informedness at which he can consent to sexual contact, then age of consent, whatever it may be, is arbitrary.

"And I have no problem with admitting that. But still, though I can admit that the age of consent is arbitrary, it is used to protect children who cannot defend themselves, who generally have not the informedness to consent, and is therefore laudable."

But what about "sex play" between two children? Do you disapprove of that as well? Is it harmful, too? The children are not "informed", even in such cases (what would they have to be informed about?); and by your reasoning it must be harmful, and punished severely.

"It is not harmful because an adult is not involved in it."

And thus we arrive at problem number three.

3. The problem of the "adult".

The adult is falsely defined as a lustful being with an obsession with sex, and will only get it by means of coercion and force. It is for this reason that all sex between adults and young persons is perceived as harmful, because the adult is coercive, etc. However, if this were the case, all sex between any adult would involve at the very least coercion. But this is not the case. In the majority of instances, sex does not involve coercion, but on the contrary involves "mutual consent".

"I cannot agree with that. But even if you are right, by engaging in the sexual act, the child loses thereby his innocence. That is wrong in itself, regardless of whether he 'feels' harm or not."

Thus do we get to the fourth problem.

4. The problem with "childhood innocence".

The principal defect of this concept is that it implies that sexuality is a "sin", and that children are "innocent" because they have not as yet indulged in this "sin". The singularly Christian notion of "childhood innocence" is a vestige of our anti-sexual heritage which reached a high point, in many aspects, in the Victorian era. Its origin can be traced to the 1700s. It is a highly irrational notion, and I need not attempt to refute it. For the burden of proof is not on the Author, that sexuality is a sin. I have yet to see an argument that sexuality is a sin, and hence have nothing to refute. I have only come across dogmatic assertions, mainly in the form of religion, of the sinfulness of sexuality and "childhood innocence" (which is implicit in the notion of the sinfulness of sexuality).

Such are my reasons for advocating the abolition of "Age of Consent".

Every instance of perceived emotional harm by sex, is not in fact emotional harm by sex, or the result of being "too young"; it is caused by force, by coercion, coupled with the sexual act. If there were no force, no coercion, I guarantee that there would not have been any harm whatsoever.

I therefore advocate strengthening rape laws, abolishing Age of Consent laws.

[Image: ans-185230038]

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
" Is it your own destiny? Or is it a destiny someone else has tried to force on you?"
" While it is always best to believe in one’s self, a little help from others can be a great blessing"
-Uncle Iroh(Avatar: the Last Airbender)
05-19-2017 07:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: The man , Jop
The man Offline
Resistance Leader

Posts: 332
Joined: Feb 2017
Thanks: 2765
Given 93 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #2
Abolish the Age of Consent

This.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
05-19-2017 10:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: TheVanishingSnowDove
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,801
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1958 thank(s) in 1414 post(s)
Post: #3
RE: Abolish the Age of Consent

Rejected. Argument ignores the biological aspects of puberty and adulthood and fails to note the impact of hormonal surges and problems inherent in the decision making capabilities of adolescents based on established scientific evidence that has captured changes in the brain of children undergoing puberty.

It is a philosophical argument that ignores the established scientific evidence that would recommend the need for an arbitrary age to ensure that enough of a time gap is given to minimize possibility of legal sexual intercourse with those who have yet to develop their cognitive skills as they undergo major biological changes.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
05-19-2017 01:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Gwedin
Gwedin Offline
dumb shithead

Posts: 2,207
Joined: May 2013
Thanks: 207
Given 502 thank(s) in 370 post(s)
Post: #4
RE: Abolish the Age of Consent

(05-19-2017 01:54 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  It is a philosophical argument

i was gonna write something like this but this'll do fine braindude

snownigger's a pedophile and fiddles little boys' cocks

idk :|
05-19-2017 04:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hansgrohe Offline
God Emperor Moderator™

Posts: 6,473
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1062
Given 2219 thank(s) in 1476 post(s)
Post: #5
Abolish the Age of Consent

r/im14andthisisdeep

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
05-20-2017 05:32 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The man Offline
Resistance Leader

Posts: 332
Joined: Feb 2017
Thanks: 2765
Given 93 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #6
RE: Abolish the Age of Consent

(05-20-2017 05:32 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  r/im14andthisisdeep

TRAITOR.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
05-20-2017 11:00 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: TheVanishingSnowDove , Jop
Hansgrohe Offline
God Emperor Moderator™

Posts: 6,473
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1062
Given 2219 thank(s) in 1476 post(s)
Post: #7
Abolish the Age of Consent

Whuh

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
05-20-2017 11:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gwedin Offline
dumb shithead

Posts: 2,207
Joined: May 2013
Thanks: 207
Given 502 thank(s) in 370 post(s)
Post: #8
RE: Abolish the Age of Consent

(05-20-2017 11:00 AM)The man Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 05:32 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  r/im14andthisisdeep

TRAITOR.

if you wish to be a person that encourages "free thought" then you need to do away with the concept of treachery here. if you are to accuse someone that disagrees with what you think of treachery then you are not a supporter of freedom, rather just another dogmatic fuckwit that refuses to listen to others. kinda like those "brainwashed" supporters of the status quo in schooling.

of course hans is joking and you likely are too but as the saying goes, behind every joke there's a hint of truthfulness or whatever

oh and i see snownigger gave thanks to you so that post goes for her too

be open minded thanks Wink

idk :|
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2017 11:48 AM by Gwedin.)
05-20-2017 11:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hansgrohe Offline
God Emperor Moderator™

Posts: 6,473
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1062
Given 2219 thank(s) in 1476 post(s)
Post: #9
Abolish the Age of Consent

You described how I feel about neo-atheists.

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
05-20-2017 01:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NiteRaidah Offline
hmmm

Posts: 1,053
Joined: Jun 2007
Thanks: 20
Given 41 thank(s) in 29 post(s)
Post: #10
Abolish the Age of Consent

Let's just make all sex illegal.

"All these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
-Prince

[Image: USVWSwj.png]
05-20-2017 01:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: SoulRiser
Hansgrohe Offline
God Emperor Moderator™

Posts: 6,473
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1062
Given 2219 thank(s) in 1476 post(s)
Post: #11
Abolish the Age of Consent

and no more sexy clothing either

puritanism bruh

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
05-20-2017 01:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The man Offline
Resistance Leader

Posts: 332
Joined: Feb 2017
Thanks: 2765
Given 93 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #12
RE: Abolish the Age of Consent

(05-20-2017 01:13 PM)NiteRaidah Wrote:  Let's just make all sex illegal.
This is probably a joke but just in case.
That's a stupid idea even if that law COULD be enforced,it would be near universally despised and a revolution would begin within a week.....

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
05-20-2017 11:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gwedin Offline
dumb shithead

Posts: 2,207
Joined: May 2013
Thanks: 207
Given 502 thank(s) in 370 post(s)
Post: #13
Abolish the Age of Consent

based kami telling dumb niteraidah what's what

idk :|
05-21-2017 04:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: The man
The man Offline
Resistance Leader

Posts: 332
Joined: Feb 2017
Thanks: 2765
Given 93 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #14
RE: Abolish the Age of Consent

(05-21-2017 04:04 AM)Gwedin Wrote:  based kami telling dumb niteraidah what's what

Removed from ignore list.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
05-21-2017 04:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Jop
NiteRaidah Offline
hmmm

Posts: 1,053
Joined: Jun 2007
Thanks: 20
Given 41 thank(s) in 29 post(s)
Post: #15
Abolish the Age of Consent

yeah, really.

brb jumping off bridge

"All these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
-Prince

[Image: USVWSwj.png]
05-21-2017 08:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hansgrohe Offline
God Emperor Moderator™

Posts: 6,473
Joined: Aug 2013
Thanks: 1062
Given 2219 thank(s) in 1476 post(s)
Post: #16
Abolish the Age of Consent

meanwhile i'm going to overthrow Trump. BRB.

actually fuck that I think trump is legit watching us all and it would hurt his fragile little ego

[Image: Nas-One-Love.jpg]

Stop jerking off to porn and whining and do something about it

Make School Survival Great Again - MSSGA

Hidden stuff:

[Image: BallsofSteel2.png]
[Image: mg_michelle_2020.png]
(This post was last modified: 05-21-2017 08:43 AM by Hansgrohe.)
05-21-2017 08:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The man Offline
Resistance Leader

Posts: 332
Joined: Feb 2017
Thanks: 2765
Given 93 thank(s) in 84 post(s)
Post: #17
Abolish the Age of Consent

BUMP.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
Today 06:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,801
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1958 thank(s) in 1414 post(s)
Post: #18
RE: Abolish the Age of Consent

(05-20-2017 11:00 AM)The man Wrote:  
(05-20-2017 05:32 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  r/im14andthisisdeep

TRAITOR.

burn him at the stakes and give me his posts.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
Today 11:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  ATTN: "Consent" no longer exists due to consensus యూజర్ పేరు 5 1,193 11-01-2010 06:39 AM
Last Post: NowhereWoman
  Coersion - Forced Consent David B. 15 1,502 07-28-2008 11:46 AM
Last Post: Will

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | School Survival | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication