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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

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"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"
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Avatar Korra Offline
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Post: #1
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

I was on the Whisper app today debating why a 30 year old being in a relationship with a 17 year old isn't wrong, and most of the counterarguments were, "Of course it's harmful. A teens brain isn't fully developed yet," and I asked them 2 questions:
-What oh so superior mental capabilities are needed to have a meaningful relationship with older people? We befriend and date people our age all the time.
-What are you implying? That we all lack maturity, critical thinking skills, and the ability to love and keep meaningful relationships? We are not idiots.

What are people implying when they use this argument (in any situation) and why is it used so often? I don't see how not being "fully developed" makes us mentally inferior and somehow incompatible with anyone older.

They seem to also be implying that the adult in the relationship is by default an evil, manipulative bastard who's only purpose is to take advantage of youth, even though you can't generalize the intentions of an entire group of people.

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05-06-2017 03:58 AM
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Post: #2
RE: "Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

We've already discussed that there's no such thing as the "teen brain" and that brain development continues into the thirties thanks to much better scientific understanding of brain development; not to mention the beauty of neuroplasticity.

It's also important to note that the development of the teen brain is much better understood than previously. Read this article:
http://www.bbc.com/news/health-36887224

To be honest I really don't see anything wrong with the relationship. I knew a girl who was in a relationship at 17 with a 29 year old guy, and ever since then they've been happily together. No manipulation, no pedophilia or anything, just love.

American society seems to be really set in stone with this shit :/

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Post: #3
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Quote:"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"
"Clearly, neither is yours." Razz

/comebacks I'd like to use on people someday.

Technically, it will never be "fully developed" because it adapts and changes all the time... brains are not static. If it stops developing, it's probably dead.



Not sure if it's worth the trouble trying to debate things like this with anyone though. Maybe for the very patient... which I am not. I'll just make fun of them and leave them be.

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Post: #4
RE: "Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

(05-06-2017 05:03 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  To be honest I really don't see anything wrong with the relationship. I knew a girl who was in a relationship at 17 with a 29 year old guy, and ever since then they've been happily together. No manipulation, no pedophilia or anything, just love.

American society seems to be really set in stone with this shit :/

Yep, people make too many assumptions and generalizations. Whenever any adult/minor relationship is revealed online, I see almost everyone expressing disgust and attacking the older person even after the "victim" says they were in no way harmed by the interaction.
But the commenters keep trying to invalidate their opinion and continue victimizing them.

Like here:

Quote:This topic became particularly relevant to me recently because the moderators of a page I follow on Facebook, “Destroying Cissexism In Feminist Discourse”, explained they were in a relationship: one, a 15 year old, and the other, an adult (of age 22, I heard, though I haven’t confirmed it).

I’m not sure if we can really call this pedophilia actually; in most countries in Europe, this is legal. Perhaps if the page hadn’t been followed so predominantly by people from the US, where the age of consent is relatively rather high, the reaction would have been different.

As it is, however, when the moderators of this page wrote about their relationship, the full force of the internet crashed down on them. They received death threats, endless bullying messages, condescending comments, and people unfollowing their page in droves.

What really blew my mind was that the fifteen-year-old member of the relationship was THERE, and telling xir story, but everyone was apparently dead set on imposing another story onto xe. Xe insisted xe was NOT victimised, and had chosen xir relationship freely, and yet other people continued to label xe a victim. Where is the respect here? How do these people think that they are defending anyone?

http://www.sophiagubb.com/on-pedophilia/

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(This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 05:38 AM by Avatar Korra.)
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Post: #5
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

(05-06-2017 05:34 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  
Quote:"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"
"Clearly, neither is yours." Razz

/comebacks I'd like to use on people someday.

Technically, it will never be "fully developed" because it adapts and changes all the time... brains are not static. If it stops developing, it's probably dead.



Not sure if it's worth the trouble trying to debate things like this with anyone though. Maybe for the very patient... which I am not. I'll just make fun of them and leave them be.

If I tried your comeback, they'd use it discredit anything else I say because, "I knew you were immature" or something. xD

Also, true. Often when people debate, no one changes their mind or is even open to the other side, so it's like I'm stating my ideas to myself.

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
" While it is always best to believe in one’s self, a little help from others can be a great blessing"
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(This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 05:47 AM by Avatar Korra.)
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Post: #6
RE: "Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

(05-06-2017 05:35 AM)Korravatar Wrote:  
(05-06-2017 05:03 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  To be honest I really don't see anything wrong with the relationship. I knew a girl who was in a relationship at 17 with a 29 year old guy, and ever since then they've been happily together. No manipulation, no pedophilia or anything, just love.

American society seems to be really set in stone with this shit :/

Yep, people make too many assumptions and generalizations. Whenever any adult/minor relationship is revealed online, I see almost everyone expressing disgust and attacking the older person even after the "victim" says they were in no way harmed by the interaction.
But the commenters keep trying to invalidate their opinion and continue victimizing them.

Like here:

Quote:This topic became particularly relevant to me recently because the moderators of a page I follow on Facebook, “Destroying Cissexism In Feminist Discourse”, explained they were in a relationship: one, a 15 year old, and the other, an adult (of age 22, I heard, though I haven’t confirmed it).

I’m not sure if we can really call this pedophilia actually; in most countries in Europe, this is legal. Perhaps if the page hadn’t been followed so predominantly by people from the US, where the age of consent is relatively rather high, the reaction would have been different.

As it is, however, when the moderators of this page wrote about their relationship, the full force of the internet crashed down on them. They received death threats, endless bullying messages, condescending comments, and people unfollowing their page in droves.

What really blew my mind was that the fifteen-year-old member of the relationship was THERE, and telling xir story, but everyone was apparently dead set on imposing another story onto xe. Xe insisted xe was NOT victimised, and had chosen xir relationship freely, and yet other people continued to label xe a victim. Where is the respect here? How do these people think that they are defending anyone?

http://www.sophiagubb.com/on-pedophilia/

This is starting to remind me of how gay people used to be treated.

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Post: #7
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Thanks Vanishing-Korravatar.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
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Post: #8
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Free love for all kids!

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Post: #9
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Another thing I see a lot is, "What could an *insert adult age here* possibly have in common with an *insert under 18 age here*." This one seems to be said under the idea that age determines interests and compatibility. Also, if they're together, then they obviously have something in common.

The rest of the replies I received were just insults like, "It's a mental disorder," "you have to be messed up the brain to like kids," "that's disgusting," "A 17 year old is a child and it's sick to think of them sexually," "Hell no, don't compare this to homosexuality!" and other stuff.

I just now got this:
"Biologically the brain is still developing. They shouldn't be in sexual relationships with someone that old because it can be extremely detrimental to proper growth."
How is it detrimental?
I give up on this shit. ._.

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
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(This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 07:48 AM by Avatar Korra.)
05-06-2017 07:21 AM
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Post: #10
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

A comment on something different, but still related:
"Oh yes let's encourage teenagers to have sex! If they aren't old enough to make important life decisions they aren't old enough for sex, which is an important life decision."

My response: "We are capable of making important decisions. We just aren't allowed to that often. Also, as long as you know what you're doing, you can have sex at any age if you feel ready."

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
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(This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 08:02 AM by Avatar Korra.)
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Post: #11
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Sorry for making a bunch of comments in a row. xD

I also often see people using their experience getting raped or abused by someone older to argue that consensual sex between adults and minors is inherently bad.
I see this way too often..

Way too often...

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
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(This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 08:28 AM by Avatar Korra.)
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Post: #12
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Last comment. xD

"No, because most of us (older people) know how much of an idiot we were at 17. You are not as informed as you think, kiddo."
"We all thought we knew everything when we were teenagers. Ours views change when we get responsibilities."
"You're 15 wait until you're older and you'll understand."
"One day when you're older you'll look back (hopefully) and realize like most people how stupid you were."
"Because every person I know in their 30's and 40's has said 'I was such an idiot when I was a teenager."

Why am I seeing so many of these comments today?!

Friggin' humans..

"I’M BEGGING YOU, PRINCE ZUKO! It’s time for you to look inward and begin asking yourself the big question: who are you and what do YOU want?"
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Post: #13
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Ageist comments like those make me wanna KMS.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
05-06-2017 09:12 AM
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Post: #14
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

If my younger self saw those comments, she probably would've become very depressed.

Youth are one of the most generalized, underestimated, invalidated, groups of humans on this earth.
Noo

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(This post was last modified: 05-06-2017 09:16 AM by Avatar Korra.)
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Post: #15
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Found a nice quote:
Quote:I don’t feel comfortable saying that the way I love now, or any love I feel now, is somehow more “real” than a love I felt or the way I defined love at 15. I was just as real of a person then as I am now, as were the people I loved. My life was just as real a life. My relationships then were real, the people I had them with were real. Life experience and aging does tend to change us and help us grow, and often will change how we love and experience love, but we’re not more or less real based on what our life experience has or hasn’t been, and our love is no more or less real because we are younger or older. It’s all real.

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Post: #16
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

You're really passionate about this aren't you.

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Post: #17
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

forever does my mind grow

or shrink, i can't remember. seems as though my brain peaked years ago lel
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Post: #18
RE: "Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

(05-07-2017 05:11 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  You're really passionate about this aren't you.

Aren't we all?

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
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Post: #19
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Yeah because I don't want bullshit laws telling me who I can and cannot date and making judgments about it

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Post: #20
"Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

Quote:I was such an idiot when I was a teenager.
People always seem so eager to insult their past-tense selves, and they seem to think this is a good thing, because it shows how much "better" they are now. But, in 20 years, will they think the same thing about themselves at their current age? Or is this just reserved for teenage years only?

Personally, I was more of an idiot when I was around 20-24. I was smarter as a teen. I did dumb things later because I listened to other people instead of trusting myself, for a while. But, I don't think that calling myself "an idiot" at any age is useful. Technically, it's not like my intelligence level changed, it's just that I let other people influence me too much. I learned a lot from the experience though, so even though it temporarily cost me a bit of self-respect, it was overall a good thing to have gone through.

I mean, damn, these people make it sound like they did everything wrong when they were a teen, and in contrast, nowadays they do everything right... which is just ludicrous.

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Post: #21
RE: "Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

(05-08-2017 03:33 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  
Quote:I was such an idiot when I was a teenager.
People always seem so eager to insult their past-tense selves, and they seem to think this is a good thing, because it shows how much "better" they are now. But, in 20 years, will they think the same thing about themselves at their current age? Or is this just reserved for teenage years only?

Personally, I was more of an idiot when I was around 20-24. I was smarter as a teen. I did dumb things later because I listened to other people instead of trusting myself, for a while. But, I don't think that calling myself "an idiot" at any age is useful. Technically, it's not like my intelligence level changed, it's just that I let other people influence me too much. I learned a lot from the experience though, so even though it temporarily cost me a bit of self-respect, it was overall a good thing to have gone through.

I mean, damn, these people make it sound like they did everything wrong when they were a teen, and in contrast, nowadays they do everything right... which is just ludicrous.
THIS.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
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Post: #22
RE: "Your mind isn't fully developed yet"

(05-08-2017 03:33 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  
Quote:I was such an idiot when I was a teenager.
People always seem so eager to insult their past-tense selves, and they seem to think this is a good thing, because it shows how much "better" they are now. But, in 20 years, will they think the same thing about themselves at their current age? Or is this just reserved for teenage years only?

Personally, I was more of an idiot when I was around 20-24. I was smarter as a teen. I did dumb things later because I listened to other people instead of trusting myself, for a while. But, I don't think that calling myself "an idiot" at any age is useful. Technically, it's not like my intelligence level changed, it's just that I let other people influence me too much. I learned a lot from the experience though, so even though it temporarily cost me a bit of self-respect, it was overall a good thing to have gone through.

I mean, damn, these people make it sound like they did everything wrong when they were a teen, and in contrast, nowadays they do everything right... which is just ludicrous.

Eh, I blew a lot of opportunities during my teen years. It's not so much a hatred of adolescence but rather a hatred of my cynicism back then and the fact that I felt like a fucking 40 year old man stuck in a teenager's body. Hell that was my nickname.

RIP GWEDIN
RIP URITIYOGI
RIP NIGHT
RIP VONUNOV
RIP WES/THEWAKE
RIP USERNAME

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05-08-2017 07:40 AM
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