Official School Survival Book?

[the Analogist]

Alexander Inglis was a sort of business man. many of these people arent famous but remain influential nonetheless.

start with one of those books, then make a thread like mine posting interesting quotes with comments. lets all share in the process

[James Comey]

Or, we could use this old thread .

But I really like your concept. Hell today I even made a preamble and I'll upload a Google Drive document if anyone's interested.

[the Analogist]

sure, not sure how much overlap out visions have, but I got about 30 years until retirement so...

I actually need to double check my complete book list. my light side has a lot more books

[James Comey]

Feel free to post the light side, I'll post mine later tonight, as I'll post the preamble and see where we go from there.

We need xcriteria on here damn it

[the Analogist]

My approach to books/authors is a think a bit different. I refuse to look anywhere except groundbreaking/influential people whose magnum opus I have found.

Noam Chomsky is very well read, and quoting him carries its own weight, but the influence of those major individuals he quotes makes their work on a more significant level, if that makes sense.

Paulo Freire is considered by some to be a major founder of critical pedagogy. ( I have his book Pedagogy of the Oppressed, but thats gonna be a tough read. high level Portugese translated into very learned English)

like, I in my narrative of history have to be convinced the the book I have in my possession is utterly important.

Anytime somebody just casually tells me "oh you should check out so and so" I dismiss the recommendation and file it under MON (maybe or never)

let me give this chronology. 2010-ish, a friend recommends John Taylor Gatto who he found by listening to Hamza Yusuf. His content was so fresh and amazing that I kind of obsessed over his ideas for... years. Anyway, highly dismissive of any ideas other than my own I never cared, even upon Gattos recommendation of Sudbury Valley, to ever find out about Dan Greenberg. that came ONLY after boyinaband posted his "you dont legally have to go to school" and it made me more curious about Sudbury. point is several recommendations from Gatto, and reading that short book transcribing a speech by Dan, it still took about 6 years before I looked hardly beyond Gatto whose work is prolific, detailed, and seemingly well researched. the guy who interviewed him from Tragedy and Hope magazine strikes me as a fucking dope of a moron. he taints Carroll Quigley.

but Qugleys book tragedy and hope is amazing. every time i picked it up i kinda got my mind blown and had to pace around for awhile. its a book of history.

not sure why I said all this

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Gatto has clearly read Chomsky then read Chomsky's sources, then read rarer and lesser known sources than Chomsky's.

[James Comey]

All right, I seriously gotta compile a list tomorrow.

Robert Greene has been incredibly influential, two of his books on strategy and power have been pretty influential so far. His books are pretty practical and pragmatic and I think they'd be of use for people who can't escape the system and have to face it on a daily basis.

[the Analogist]

my wife reminded me, what I prefer to cite are "primary sources"

i once went to the rare book an manuscript library at my university for a two page paper. the assignment, a brief history of elizabethan theatre. the source, Histriomastix, printed in 1632. a thousand page long tract against stage plays for which the author was put in the pillory.

[James Comey]

Lovely. We should find more primary sources on schooling and the alleged Prussian connection of indoctrination and subjugation.

[the Analogist]

Wishlist of authors and books

Rudolf Steiner - Founder of Waldorf Schooling
- "How to know higher worlds"
- "The Philosophy of Freedom"
- "The Four Temperaments"

Maria Montessori - You know this one right?
- "The Secret of Childhood"
- "The Absorbent Mind"
- "Education for a New World"

Dan Greenberg - but of course.
- "Free at Last" 1995
- "Sudbury Valley School Experience, 3rd"
- "Starting a Sudbury School" 1998

David Tyack - That historian
- "The One Best System"
- "Managers of Virtue"
- "Tinkering Toward Utoptia"

John Taylog Gatto - but of course. A great secondary source (to find primary sources)
- "Dumbing Us Down"
- "Underground History of American Ed."
- "Weapons of Mass Instruction"

Alexander Inglis - One of THEM
- "Principles of Secondary Education"

Walter Lippman
- "Public Opinion"

Edward Bernays
- "Propoganda"
- "Public Relations"
- "The Engineering of Consent"

That was my list as of awhile ago

[James Comey]

Analogist, I'd love to put this quote in: "Those who put their fate in the hands of others are people who have been condemned to die".

[the Analogist]

dude, this is pretty much your work right now. better at this point to not keep discussing ideas as much but actually getting a big chunk of work done. doing that will reveal better ideas more productively.

when I wrote some music last, to prove to myself i hadn't lost it, I pretty much planned nothing but the general concept. made it up as I went along, came up with ideas as i went. I suggest this process. we can more effectively review some completed work

also that quote is OK i guess, but I wonder whose important name can we attach to it? since the purpose of quotes from where I stand is to attribute them to people with reputations and historical significance.

[James Comey]

Without further ado

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q6O4...sp=sharing

[Avatar Korra]

I like that you:
-Mentioned school's Prussian history.
-Said school doesn't tend to individual people's needs and contributes to the lack of freedom for the youth.
-Added your own experience in special needs, to give people an alternate perspective.

Though, like Soul Riser said earlier, the "I observe that many teens are disconnected from intellectual ideas, and do not care for them," could turn some younger people off, especially since you expressed your annoyance at being deemed a "dumb immature teen" before that, so it seems a tad bit contradictory.
It would have disgusted some of my old classmates to just think of looking at deeper topics during their own time mainly because it's shoved up our asses for years against our will (and force pushes people away in the long run). Though(below), you seemed to word it like we lack the ability.

(04-05-2017 02:06 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 11:50 PM)SoulRiser Wrote:  Oh, wow, I forgot we even had a Wikia page.

Quote:I had a pep talk to myself yesterday that in general teenagers seem to be rather anti-intellectual is because they don't understand intellectual ideas; they're too complex or crazy for them when in reality there's a lot of value in intellect; they just don't understand it.

Well, if you start out by underestimating your audience... that could make you come across as arrogant or something.
Why not focus on writing it as a guide for your younger self, that you'd give him if you could go back in time?

I don't underestimate the teenage brain but I knew full well I couldn't comprehend the shit out of books such as the 48 Laws of Power, the Art of War, the Prince, etc.

Though it's not so much that teens can't read it but that the message of it isn't very easy to understand. I do like the suggestion of "writing for my younger self". That's probably the best approach to do it.

You said you don't underestimate them, yet then implied teens are incapable of understanding both the value of knowledge and knowledge itself. I've never read those books you mentioned, so I don't know how complex they are, but during 9th grade and this year we were given (classic high school) books like The Alchemist, We, Alas Babylon, The Devil in the White City, and more. A lot of my classmates dug D E E P into those books and constantly created some of the most intense discussions and debates I've ever heard.
At the same time, it also seems that you're just saying that the current system holds back the potential of youth, and makes us dislike these things(actually that's pretty much what you said in the preamble). Hmmm.
(I'm still figuring out where the heck I stand here. xD But, I can't say much more. My laptop's about to go out and I don't have my charger with me. I shall (might) add on later with my phone)(Your preamble was pretty friggin' good)

[James Comey]

Hmm, good point. I could rephrase the first sentence there... something a little less condescending like "Many teens feel that the boredom of school has made them disinterested in otherwise fascinating topics"? I want to emphasize its not the teen's fault, but the school. So many great things are pissed on by school...

Also I don't think I was clear; back then I didn't really understand those books too well... but that just might be my experience. I still want to find a balance when it comes to the language... if I go too far I'll end up sounding like your typical pandering douche. If I go too little I'll sound like a pretentious jackass who just writes big words for the fuck of it.

I guess the general rule is this: keep the integral ideas in check without making them too complex. This isn't just for teens but a writing tip in general. The word here is calibration, which means shifting yourself towards your audience. Perfect calibration here is key.

[James Comey]

Korravatar, what are your ideas for the book?

[the Analogist]

be aware of teacher's fallacy:
I know so many great things that I wanna share them with everybody!!!

you very quickly disregard dismiss and patronize your audience when you assume that position.

am I the only one that also gets annoyed by xcriteria's style? I ask because you guys are opposite ends of a spectrum. she tends to pose questions a lot without commenting too much, you seem to comment a lot but dont necessarily inviting your audience to participate (teachers fallacy).

I feel like the middle ground is carefully choosing what not to say and allow your readers to engage with the ideas. lots of great videos ive seen have moments when they ask questions to keep the video grounded in the journey they are guiding you through, rather than assuming they are already fully on board. a balance of exposition, persuasion, and a trust that people will grasp your ideas if you break em down and rebuild em right.

[James Comey]

Apparently this is a thing: https://www.amazon.com/Special-Needs-SCH...1941765211

Xcriteria is a male, dude. I think you got him mixed up with Soul. I think his style bothers me a bit in that he basically posts walls of texts that aren't very easy to digest... it might be better to slowly introduce this content rather than hit a person in the face with it all.

Though yes, I think you finally understand what I was trying to say Analogist. Again, key word here is calibration. Find a middle ground that makes the book an actual enjoyable journey. Encourage the reader to actually ask questions and to figure out things for themselves.

Would you mind writing a chapter of sorts? It'd be good to gauge what kind of look you're going for, and what we can do with this in the future.

[the Analogist]

i tell you what, with what little time I have i'd prefer working on my script for my TCS video. i have no plans to make the video myself, or any plans really, but once im done revising it I think we'll be better able to compare tones. BTW I discovered teachers fallacy when i started writing what I have so far.

normally my writimg is just natural me, but my style sucks for what your talking about. im trying to draw a bit from CGP Grey in thinking of how my ideas would sound as a voice-over video.

until I am able to devote some more time to this we'll just need to hang tight. good stuff like takes awhile to put together, and we all have lives outside of SS.

I would suggest watching some CGP Grey though since his tone and style are perfect. we need something more like him. entertaining, draws you in, makes you a part of it.

this is fantastic BTW. watch, and rewatch


Watch on YouTube

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also, i mostly do SS on my phone and i kinda hate revising illogical paragraphs of mine...

[James Comey]

Thanks for the video.

Yeah, that's actually what I was going for. A tone that is relatively neutral but gives away the facts. I think a lot of us get a bit too carried away when we're going on about the "evul skewl system". Yeah, the system is shit, but it's important to keep things in perspective.

[the Analogist]

his stuff is great

[the Analogist]

how would Grey say it?

by being in school you are not somewhere else, since by definition being somewhere means there are lots of places you are not.

thus the idea that school limits you is true in the sense that being confined within time and space limits you, but doing things outside of school is sometimes made difficult by laws or by parents

(fill in the rest)

[James Comey]

Thanks for the idea... hmm that's actually a very good part I want to take. The whole idea of time and how we use it as well as efficiency. School is incredibly inefficient by nature because it takes so long to learn the material and is disorganized.

[Avatar Korra]

(04-11-2017 02:22 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  Korravatar, what are your ideas for the book?

Even though it's a book for school survival I think it would be helpful to add in youth rights stuff in general, so the readers will know that school isn't the only injustice for youth, and the ways they feel and act are natural reactions to the way the world currently is. Get deep in the philosophies and include ideas from unschoolers and anarchists.

Here are some of the blogs + articles of people that jumpstarted most of my views that you could get some ideas from:

Sophia Gubb
- http://www.sophiagubb.com/obligation-vs-responsibility/
- http://www.sophiagubb.com/childism/

Idzie (she has so much good shit, so just click whatever sounds interesting)
http://yes-i-can-write.blogspot.ca/p/my-...iting.html

Pocketful of Pebbles
http://pocketfulofpebbles.com/category/education/
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<3 I just found this one, but it makes so much sense so far:
http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secJ6.html

[James Comey]

I think I'm gonna do a page on how people say school is "for your own good".

Gotta start finding references and quotes for that. Seems like a good place to start.