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Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!
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Zeta Offline
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Post: #1
Rainbow Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

http://www.kcci.com/article/kentucky-law...on/8690313

This is it guys! We need to get all hands on deck to support this in any way we can and make sure it gets through! We might see our greatest enemy finally fall - this is the day we've been dreaming of.

How do you guys think we can act to support this bill?

UPDATE: Congressman Massie has said that the best way to help is to help the bill get more cosponsors so that it can get a committee hearing. Here's the current list of cosponsors: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-cong...cosponsors

If your local representative isn't on this list, give their office a call and say how much you'd like to see them as a cosponsor!

For bonus points, go to http://www.nea.org/home/65595.htm This organization is one of the leading advocates of compulsory education, and they rank each congressmember on how much they align. Let's contact any congressmembers who have a grade of F and encourage them to cosponsor as well
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2017 01:27 AM by Zeta.)
02-09-2017 09:42 AM
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Superkamiguru Offline
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Post: #2
Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Well this is something.

Hidden stuff:
"CONSENSUAL incest is not wrong. (Abuse victims: being abused by a relative does not make it wrong for others to have consensual incest, any more than rape by a stranger makes all sex wrong. Sex and assault/molestation are two different things.) An aversion became common in humans that aided in population growth as one disease couldn't wipe out the human race. That's not a problem anymore.

Consensual incest is very common. You know people who have been involved, whether you know it or not.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual
incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. Youthful experimentation between close relatives close in age is not uncommon, and there are more people than you'd think out there who are in lifelong healthy, happy relationships with a close relative. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and
marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry.

Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too?

Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning.

Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Let consenting adults love each other the way they want!"-Keith Pullman

02-09-2017 09:51 AM
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Geicosuave Offline
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Post: #3
Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

I mean we need to revise the education system, not destroy it. If there was no education then every generation would have to learn everything that has ever been done by themselves without assistance. So while the current system certainly isnt perfect, or all that good, it at least works and I'd rather have it then not

well would you look at the time its time to gay
02-09-2017 11:08 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #4
Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

How is this going to be helpful? It's just going to let those red states get away with forcing people to have Jesus in all schools. Abolishing the Dept has nothing to do with making schools better, it has to do with making them anti-evolution, anti-secular, and anti-liberal.

Plus I refuse to support anything sponsored by the GOP these days. Those cocksuckers are traitors to this country and can take their greedy hypocritical bullshit and shove it up their puckered assholes.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
02-09-2017 11:10 AM
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Geicosuave Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-09-2017 11:10 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  How is this going to be helpful? It's just going to let those red states get away with forcing people to have Jesus in all schools. Abolishing the Dept has nothing to do with making schools better, it has to do with making them anti-evolution, anti-secular, and anti-liberal.

Plus I refuse to support anything sponsored by the GOP these days. Those cocksuckers are traitors to this country and can take their greedy hypocritical bullshit and shove it up their puckered assholes.

Betsy DeVos, who now runs the Dept. of Education, is notorious for her fight against marriage equality and also wants to bring back child labor

I agree with you fully

well would you look at the time its time to gay
02-09-2017 11:12 AM
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Zeta Offline
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Post: #6
Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Quote: I refuse to support anything sponsored by the GOP

Quote:Betsy DeVos, who now runs the Dept. of Education, is notorious for her fight against marriage equality

I'm starting to really dislike the Left. Education is really the only political issue I care much about, but even here - a website dedicated to the cause - it is consistently the Left that defends the system to the death. Libertarians, Conservatives, Moderates - lots of them are allies. But even freaking here, the farther Left someone is the more they refuse to actually try to do anything about this.

Even people who don't fit anywhere on the spectrum like the conspiracy crowd are onboard. But Leftists just want to whine and whine and whine about a bunch of irrelevant issues apparently even on a one-sentence bill that literally only says "the Department of Education will be abolished". They refuse to work with anyone who isn't a shining image of all their social justice fantasies.

Is there some place like School-Survival but minus all the Leftists?
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 11:56 AM by Zeta.)
02-09-2017 11:50 AM
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Superkamiguru Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-09-2017 11:08 AM)Geicosuave Wrote:  I mean we need to revise the education system, not destroy it. If there was no education then every generation would have to learn everything that has ever been done by themselves without assistance. So while the current system certainly isnt perfect, or all that good, it at least works



Watch on YouTube

Hidden stuff:
"CONSENSUAL incest is not wrong. (Abuse victims: being abused by a relative does not make it wrong for others to have consensual incest, any more than rape by a stranger makes all sex wrong. Sex and assault/molestation are two different things.) An aversion became common in humans that aided in population growth as one disease couldn't wipe out the human race. That's not a problem anymore.

Consensual incest is very common. You know people who have been involved, whether you know it or not.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual
incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. Youthful experimentation between close relatives close in age is not uncommon, and there are more people than you'd think out there who are in lifelong healthy, happy relationships with a close relative. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and
marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry.

Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too?

Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning.

Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Let consenting adults love each other the way they want!"-Keith Pullman

02-09-2017 11:55 AM
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TheCancer Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

The Department of Education has long been instrumental in making students products to exploit to make billions off their vampiric tests. Although it's a pretty safe bet that many states would be even worse without federal intervention I still support abolishing the DOE and all federal funding for public education. The weapon used against people who want to reform public education is always the threat to withhold federal funding. I certainly hate the Republicans more than the Democrats but if you're currently in America's public school system as a student the Democrats have probably hurt your experience more than the Republicans. Common Core is at the core of your oppression.

I'll get back to this point though. Compulsory education needs to be abolished. In my opinion, public education also needs to go but I know not many take it that far.

Quote:But even freaking here, the farther Left someone is the more they refuse to actually try to do anything about this.

I totally understand how you feel.

If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school.


Captain Beefheart
(This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 12:00 PM by TheCancer.)
02-09-2017 11:57 AM
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Geicosuave Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-09-2017 11:50 AM)Zeta Wrote:  
Quote: I refuse to support anything sponsored by the GOP

Quote:Betsy DeVos, who now runs the Dept. of Education, is notorious for her fight against marriage equality

I'm starting to really dislike the Left. Education is really the only political issue I care much about, but even here - a website dedicated to the cause - it is consistently the Left that defends the system to the death. Libertarians, Conservatives, Moderates - lots of them are allies. But even freaking here, the farther Left someone is the more they refuse to actually try to do anything about this.

Even people who don't fit anywhere on the spectrum like the conspiracy crowd are onboard. But Leftists just want to whine and whine and whine about a bunch of irrelevant issues apparently even on a one-sentence bill that literally only says "the Department of Education will be abolished". They refuse to work with anyone who isn't a shining image of all their social justice fantasies.

Is there some place like School-Survival but minus all the Leftists?

I don't support people who do support the oppression of me and many many others simply due to who we are attracted to. I would rahter have school, hell, rather have some of the bullshit horrible schools that i've heard about on here than be oppressed due to such a thing. I would rather go to one of those piece of shit schools than see others oppressed due to what religion they follow. I would rather go to one of those borderline-abusive schools than see others oppressed due to the color of their skin.

And I see you neglected to acknowledge the ACTUAL CHILD LABOR that she is in favor of. Tell me, what would rather do? Go to school, or work in a coal mine?

well would you look at the time its time to gay
02-09-2017 12:04 PM
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TheCancer Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

We need a more radical faction that simply wants to destroy the whole thing.

If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school.


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02-09-2017 12:15 PM
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Zeta Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Quote:And I see you neglected to acknowledge the ACTUAL CHILD LABOR that she is in favor of. Tell me, what would rather do? Go to school, or work in a coal mine?

That - as should be instantly obvious to anybody who's been on the internet this long - was Fake News.

In reality someone affiliated with an organization that she's supported wrote an opinion piece along those lines, and even in that article (which can be found here: http://blog.acton.org/archives/89837-bri...andle.html) he said "permit me to clarify that I do NOT endorse replacing education with paid labor, nor do I support sending our children back into the coal mines or other high-risk jobs, nor do I support getting rid of mandatory education at elementary and middle-school ages".

That's another thing that's really been grinding my gears about the Leftists: they believe Fake News and have hysterical overreactions to a degree that I haven't seen since the pro-Russians in the War in Ukraine.

Quote: I don't support people who do support the oppression of me and many many others simply due to who we are attracted to...would rather go to one of those borderline-abusive schools than see others oppressed due to the color of their skin

What are you even talking about? This bill has nothing to do with race or homosexuality or anything else. It is ONE SENTENCE long and all it says is "The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2018".

That's it. That's it that's all that's it. But here you are going on a psychotically paranoid rant about how this has something to do with racism?!!!

Everyone else all along the political spectrum understands compromise and that sometimes you need to work with people you might not totally agree with to get things done. But for some reason the Leftists refuse to even look like they're associating with someone that isn't in their circle.
02-09-2017 02:29 PM
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Geicosuave Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-09-2017 02:29 PM)Zeta Wrote:  
Quote:And I see you neglected to acknowledge the ACTUAL CHILD LABOR that she is in favor of. Tell me, what would rather do? Go to school, or work in a coal mine?

That - as should be instantly obvious to anybody who's been on the internet this long - was Fake News.

In reality someone affiliated with an organization that she's supported wrote an opinion piece along those lines, and even in that article (which can be found here: http://blog.acton.org/archives/89837-bri...andle.html) he said "permit me to clarify that I do NOT endorse replacing education with paid labor, nor do I support sending our children back into the coal mines or other high-risk jobs, nor do I support getting rid of mandatory education at elementary and middle-school ages".

That's another thing that's really been grinding my gears about the Leftists: they believe Fake News and have hysterical overreactions to a degree that I haven't seen since the pro-Russians in the War in Ukraine.

Quote: I don't support people who do support the oppression of me and many many others simply due to who we are attracted to...would rather go to one of those borderline-abusive schools than see others oppressed due to the color of their skin

What are you even talking about? This bill has nothing to do with race or homosexuality or anything else. It is ONE SENTENCE long and all it says is "The Department of Education shall terminate on December 31, 2018".

That's it. That's it that's all that's it. But here you are going on a psychotically paranoid rant about how this has something to do with racism?!!!

Everyone else all along the political spectrum understands compromise and that sometimes you need to work with people you might not totally agree with to get things done. But for some reason the Leftists refuse to even look like they're associating with someone that isn't in their circle.

The Bill has nothing to do with such things, but you missed the point. The person proposing the bill does. I don't think you quite understand the situation, as you do not know how it is like to be constantly looked down upon and judged for these things, and how much it stings to have people supporting someone who supports the oppression of you. The ends do not justify the means. If you support Trump or Betsy DeVos or anyone on his cabinet, you are okay with homophobia, transphobia, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and sexual predation. Not all of these apply to everyone on his cabinet, but they do apply to Trump himself, and Betsy DeVos certainly is homophobic at the very least.

well would you look at the time its time to gay
02-09-2017 03:23 PM
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Zeta Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-09-2017 03:23 PM)Geicosuave Wrote:  you missed the point. The person proposing the bill does.

Even if it were written by a full-on 14/88 "Hitler did nothing wrong" Nazi, what difference would it make? The point is the bill itself and what it will do to further our cause. The bill has nothing to do with anything but the Department of Education - it mentions nothing else in this entire universe. The bill is what I'm saying we support.

Quote: I don't think you quite understand the situation

Ironic you say this considering you gobbled up obvious Fake News. Ask yourself: if you could be so humiliatingly gullible as to fall for that, what else might you be wrong on?

Quote: The ends do not justify the means

What ends? What means? The end is abolishing the Department of Education and the means are calling representatives and other normal forms of political action.

Quote: If you support Trump or Betsy DeVos

How are they even relevant? Bills go through Congress. Neither of them are in Congress.

Quote: homophobia, transphobia, racism, misogyny, xenophobia

Its like leftist Bingo over here. Yes, yes, we get it: everyone but you is every -ist and -obic.

Make sure that you bring up the Current Year next so I can get a corner space!
02-09-2017 04:22 PM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #14
Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

My reaction to all of this...
Popcorn

(Yeah, I'm lucky enough to not live in America)

On the one hand, it's better to let smaller regions handle things themselves... but on the other hand, if those smaller regions are run by bigots, that can be a huge problem for kids who are stuck in those areas (remember: kids cannot legally leave abusive home or school situations). Maybe there will be solutions for those kinds of issues that pop up, only time will tell.

But yeah, I'm in the lucky position to be able to view all this with (relative) amusement and not be affected.

Maybe the collective wrath of the internet will descent upon anyone who dares to make life worse for minority kids. I can dream, right?

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02-10-2017 01:34 AM
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sswbm Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-09-2017 12:15 PM)TheCancer Wrote:  We need a more radical faction that simply wants to destroy the whole thing.

Completely agree. I'll join.

(Who else? This needs to be a separate thread.)
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2017 05:24 AM by sswbm.)
02-10-2017 05:20 AM
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Geicosuave Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Quote:Even if it were written by a full-on 14/88 "Hitler did nothing wrong" Nazi, what difference would it make? The point is the bill itself and what it will do to further our cause. The bill has nothing to do with anything but the Department of Education - it mentions nothing else in this entire universe. The bill is what I'm saying we support.

And I'm saying that the current school system is at least better than nothing. And what if I want an education, and they dissolve public schools? Like I said, the current system is detrimental, and needs to change, but it works. My parents can't afford to send me to a private school, and I think the majority of those schools have uniforms which I refuse to go to because of that.
Besides, you're saying that you're okay with a full on Nazi being in power? Because Trump is actually fascist.

Quote:Ironic you say this considering you gobbled up obvious Fake News. Ask yourself: if you could be so humiliatingly gullible as to fall for that, what else might you be wrong on?
Soruce 1
Source 2
Source 3
Source 4

Quote:What ends? What means? The end is abolishing the Department of Education and the means are calling representatives and other normal forms of political action.

The means are calling in discriminatory individuals to public office, and possibly dissolving my only way to get ahead in this world.

Quote:How are they even relevant? Bills go through Congress. Neither of them are in Congress.

Considering you're advocating for them quite a bit, I think you would know how relevant they are. And they can still do a lot of damage.

Quote:Its like leftist Bingo over here. Yes, yes, we get it: everyone but you is every -ist and -obic.

And you're saying that those issues don't matter? At this point I think you're in favor of these things.

well would you look at the time its time to gay
02-10-2017 05:32 AM
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no Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-09-2017 11:10 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  How is this going to be helpful? It's just going to let those red states get away with forcing people to have Jesus in all schools. Abolishing the Dept has nothing to do with making schools better, it has to do with making them anti-evolution, anti-secular, and anti-liberal.

Plus I refuse to support anything sponsored by the GOP these days. Those cocksuckers are traitors to this country and can take their greedy hypocritical bullshit and shove it up their puckered assholes.

Dayum brain. You used to be the forum conservative.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
02-10-2017 12:27 PM
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Zeta Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-10-2017 05:32 AM)Geicosuave Wrote:  And I'm saying that the current school system is at least better than nothing. And what if I want an education, and they dissolve public schools?

If that’s your stance, why are you even on this website?

Like this post: http://forums.school-survival.net/showth...?tid=34429 talks about, the entire point of this website is to be against “public schools, that have a compulsory attendance law (sometimes called compulsory schooling, or even compulsory education) that is attached to them by the state”.

You can feel however you want, but the purpose of the forum is the abolition of public schools and compulsory education. If you don’t want to do that, why are you here? If you want to prioritize other issues, why don’t you go to a site for those?

Quote: Besides, you're saying that you're okay with a full on Nazi being in power?

Why do you not actually read what I’m saying? This is exactly what lets you get tricked by Fake News headlines.

What I’m saying is exactly what I said: “what difference would it make? The point is the bill itself”. Who wrote it is of complete and total irrelevance, what it says and what it will do is what matters.

Quote: Soruce 1

You’re like the avatar of everything I’m increasingly starting to hate about leftism. All you do here is quote a bunch of sources that’re all parroting each other and whose claims I already explicitly addressed in the last post. But instead of actually reading what they say and reading what I say and coming up with some original thoughts on the matter, you think posting a bunch of sensationalized headlines is all that’s needed.

Quote: The means are calling in discriminatory individuals to public office

How do you expect to ever accomplish anything if you aren’t even willing to contact people affiliated with someone that holds some views you disagree with?

Quote: I think you would know how relevant they are

And I already told you the answer to this: not at all for this. They are not even in the same branch of government that getting this bill passed involves.

Quote: And you're saying that those issues don't matter? At this point I think you're in favor of these things.

Oh yes, of course! Everyone who doesn’t completely shun anyone who disagrees with your crowd is a xenoracogynphobic monster.

Issues like racism and such do matter, but guess what? This isn’t a forum about racism. There are other problems in the world, and this forum is dedicated to solving a specific one: compulsory education. If you want to fight all the –ists and –phobics, there are plenty of forums for that.

What you’re doing is like joining the SPCA and then at all of their meetings constantly shouting “yeah but what are we going to do about ISIS? Don’t you think ISIS is horrible? We need to stop them! Are you in favor of them taking sex slaves? If not then why haven’t you said a word about them yet?”.

The most effective way to fix problems is to have groups dedicated to fixing specific problems, and the people who feel most inclined towards fixing that issue join up. Trying to fight everything all at once with each organization just gums up the works and prevents anything from getting done.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2017 01:28 PM by Zeta.)
02-10-2017 01:27 PM
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Geicosuave Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Quote:If that’s your stance, why are you even on this website?

The title is School Survival, the title doesn't have to do with dissolving Public School. This forum is to help people get through school by discussing with like-minded individuals, and to vent and complain about it, which would include discussing the abolishing of Public Schooling. However, that isn't the sole purpose. Hell, there are even specific areas about games and music and stuff, so this forum is pretty broad

Quote:Why do you not actually read what I’m saying? This is exactly what lets you get tricked by Fake News headlines.

That line you quoted was an afterthought, which had a paragraph of text above it. Apparently you completely ignored that for the sake of argument, so Ill copy paste it here:
And I'm saying that the current school system is at least better than nothing. And what if I want an education, and they dissolve public schools? Like I said, the current system is detrimental, and needs to change, but it works. My parents can't afford to send me to a private school, and I think the majority of those schools have uniforms which I refuse to go to because of that.

Quote:All you do here is quote a bunch of sources that’re all parroting each other

What, so it's better for news to be inconsistent with the information? If the same thing is said by several sources it most likely means it's true. If it was a bunch of people on some site repeating the news from the same article, that would not be a proper source, but this is the Huffington Post and stuff. These are different institutions who all wrote separate articles on the subject. So no, this is not fake news.

Quote:How do you expect to ever accomplish anything if you aren’t even willing to contact people affiliated with someone that holds some views you disagree with?

By getting people who do support some of my views to do it. Listen, I'm okay with people in public office not being the spitting image of my political beliefs. I was in favor of Bernie Sanders, and I don't think he was perfect. I was then in favor of Hillary during the election, and she certainly wasn't all too good. But I supported the candidate who I felt was the best choice out of the pros and cons.

Quote:And I already told you the answer to this: not at all for this. They are not even in the same branch of government that getting this bill passed involves.

So then why do you advocate for them so much?

Quote:Oh yes, of course! Everyone who doesn’t completely shun anyone who disagrees with your crowd is a xenoracogynphobic monster.

First of all, xenoracogynphobic isn't a word. You didn't even incorporate misogynist correctly. Just use fascist or bigoted or a word that actually exists.
Second of all, I bring this up because the issue of the people in office was brought up in this thread. I am not in favor of these candidates because their views can have major negative impacts on a hefty percentage of the population. It's just ignorant be in favor of a candidate simply due to a single issue, especially if you supposedly disagree with their stance on other issues. If you support Trump, you are okay with homophobia, transphobia, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, and sexual predation. Period, no way around it. You support him, he is clearly bigoted in all these categories, so you are okay with these. This isn't even taking into account his dubious tax records or his environmental and scientific stance (which could harm a lot of people)

well would you look at the time its time to gay
02-10-2017 03:35 PM
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Zeta Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

(02-10-2017 03:35 PM)Geicosuave Wrote:  This forum is to help people get through school by discussing with like-minded individuals, and to vent and complain about it

There are all sorts of places to go if you just want to talk about your personal problems. Why would you want to be somewhere where you actively derail threads that’re about accomplishing the place’s mission? This is the only forum dedicated to ending compulsory education – if you look you can find an endless number for personal support.

Quote: That line you quoted was an afterthought

Which shows the core problem with the rest of your thought

Quote: Apparently you completely ignored that

I didn’t ignore it, what did you think my stuff about “If that’s your stance, why are you even on this website?” was talking about?

Quote: If the same thing is said by several sources it most likely means it's true

Not if they all have a common source. If Bill, Bob and Barry all say something, and they all heard it from Alice, then it’s only as reliable as Alice.

You’re also not taking groupthink into effect. People naturally absorb their subculture’s beliefs, and believe something because their subculture does. Information spreads around a group, and its members accept it almost solely because their group does.

Notice that all of these sources are heavily left-leaning. It’s the same situation: this idea spread through the leftist subculture, and you accepted it because you are part of that group.

Quote: but this is the Huffington Post and stuff

The Huffington Post pumps out Fake News like an overflowing septic tank. This article is the perfect example of what they do: they rarely lie, but they usually deceive.

Look at what they do here. Someone in an organization that she supports wrote an opinion piece. They report it and twist the facts such that you’re over here believing that she herself is the one with that opinion. Then in your mind it gets twisted further, and you get the “going back to the coal mines” stuff you were talking about (which even the author of the opinion piece explicitly said was not what he meant).

Quote: So no, this is not fake news.

I already told you exactly why the impression it had given you was false. It lead you into complete error as we’ve clearly seen, but here you are still defending it.

Do you have any actual reply to what I said other than “but I read lots of other leftists saying the same thing!”?

Quote: By getting people who do support some of my views to do it

Then you’re doomed if you ever hope to accomplish anything that isn’t a tenant of leftism. If you were to ever agree with any other part of the political spectrum on something, you would never be able to get anything done about it.

But you apparently just believe whatever you read in enough headlines from leftist sources, so I guess that’ll never be a problem for you.

Quote: I was in favor of Bernie Sanders, and I don't think he was perfect. I was then in favor of Hillary

Notice: everything and everyone you support is leftist. Now, that means one of two things: either you’re heavily influenced by groupthink, or leftism in 21st-century America just happened out of all the political philosophies that’ve ever existed to finally land on the absolute truth. Which do you think is more likely?

If there is ever a subculture that someone agrees with on essentially every issue, then you can be certain that they’re simply getting their beliefs from that subculture via groupthink.

Quote: So then why do you advocate for them so much?

I never mentioned them in this thread until you brought them up

But I strongly support them because they are the only ones in living memory to make steps towards abolishing the education system. I’m very much a single-issue voter: I will support anyone who supports my stance on education. I voted for Ron Paul in 2012. He supports dismantling it as well, and he’s voiced a lot of support for this latest bill.

Quote: First of all, xenoracogynphobic isn't a word



I’m astounded that you actually thought writing this was worth the effort it took to press the keys

Quote: I bring this up because the issue of the people in office was brought up in this thread

How in the world is who you want to be in office relevant? There’s no election. This is about a bill and how to get it through. The only thing I care about supporting now is the bill, all the elections and appointments are done. Our cause has won there, but now we need this to truly get us our major victory.

It won’t be the final victory (we’ll have to fight educational slavery state by state and county by county), but it will be our Normandy: if we can break them here, our triumph is guaranteed. If we don’t, we might never.

Quote: I am not in favor of these candidates

I don’t care who or what you’re in favor of besides this bill. That’s all I’m concerned with in this thread

Quote: It's just ignorant be in favor of a candidate simply due to a single issue

Not if that issue has a far greater impact than all of the others combined. Every single American is enslaved for the first fifth of their lives. 20% of every single person’s life is destroyed by this system. And that’s just the time lost, as you yourself know it has lots of other negative effects on people’s lives – that’s why you need to vent!

Quote: especially if you supposedly disagree with their stance on other issues

Even deeper than that, on most other issues I don’t even care about someone’s stance. If you look up single-issue voter in an encyclopedia, I’m the illustration. If Plato were to contemplate what the Ideal Form of a single-issue voter were, he’d write my biography.

I will support anyone who agrees with my stance on education and oppose anyone who disagrees.
02-10-2017 06:15 PM
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no Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

You're an idiot. First:

(02-10-2017 01:27 PM)Zeta Wrote:  How do you expect to ever accomplish anything if you aren’t even willing to contact people affiliated with someone that holds some views you disagree with?
(02-10-2017 06:15 PM)Zeta Wrote:  I will support anyone who agrees with my stance on education and oppose anyone who disagrees.

Rofl

second, you're bringing up the idea that "all leftists take offense at the tiniest things!" as an argument, even though members of the cabinet and Tramp himself are beyond the "tumblr teenager" level of pseudo offense and have done and said things that any human with compassion for other humans should find repulsive. And yes, it does matter who does this. This is likely step 1 of something bigger.

Note that this is not an end to compulsory ed in the US. It's an end to central regulation of it. Theoretically, I would be in favor of this. Regions are so diverse that it's crazy to make them all do the same things. (oh no, he said the word diverse! He has an interest in black literature! Run!!)

There's a book I recommend called The Language Police that partly explains why stories in school reading books are near-universally shit, and a number of the reasons are a result trying to administer a massive area. Some of it is ludicrous, like "we can't include a story about the beach because some of our students have never been to the beach!" or the way that there had to be new history textbooks purchased all over the country just to replace the phrase "African slave" with "enslaved African." Waste of money imo, that could have gone towards, say, better counselors. The horror!

I still think that the main problems with school are that they give bullies an arena to hurt people, inspire authoritarianism, waste ridiculous amounts of time, and convince students that learning is boring and something to be avoided if possible. I'm still unlearning these things. But I think schools should still exist if we fix these things, which we can. As for whether some manner of education should be mandatory, I have a better understanding now than when I was 14 and all "viva la revolucion", and I worry that letting people just leave will doom them to homelessness. Unfortunately, no matter how good your skills are, employers are stupid and probably won't hire someone who opted out of all education even if we do somehow convince them that unschooling is valid, and not everyone has what it takes to survive in the wilderness or start a business of their own. That isn't to say I am permanently for compulsory education. I suffered for years at its hands, and I wonder if I would have less mental issues now if I'd left and got a job or done HS online. I sympathize with those the system doesn't serve. But abolition is just throwing them to the wolves and saying "fine - you figure everything out yourself!"

Abolition also won't change parents' attitudes toward school or what a good education looks like. It'll probably only reinforce it.

With this particular team in power, though, I think it's just a step towards destroying all education available to the poorer classes and putting an end to any social mobility that ever may have existed.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
02-10-2017 10:54 PM
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Post: #22
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

School doesn't make social mobility easier; it stifles it.

I can't count the children I've seen destroyed by being forced into these horribly destructive places we call schools.

You take a normal kid, let's say in Baltimore. He's growing up and developing fine. Then he's forced to report to a place where there's constant yelling, aggressive profanity, and fights... everyday. Ten years later he's a criminal. Yeah, stay in school.

If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school.


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02-10-2017 11:34 PM
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no Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Hell yes, it is destructive. It was destructive for me. Part of the issue is that those people who start the fights are forced to be there as well. Part of the issue is that there isn't enough choice, and before someone screams "vouchers!" those are usually thinly veiled attempts to siphon money from public to private schools, which are allowed to reject anyone for any reason.

What job do you think these kids will be able to find when McDonalds is hiring college grads and apprenticeship is basically dead?

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
02-11-2017 12:12 AM
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Geicosuave Offline
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Post: #24
Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Honestly you're not worth my time to argue with anymore, just look at no's argument.

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02-11-2017 07:39 AM
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Post: #25
Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Quote:There are all sorts of places to go if you just want to talk about your personal problems. Why would you want to be somewhere where you actively derail threads that’re about accomplishing the place’s mission? This is the only forum dedicated to ending compulsory education – if you look you can find an endless number for personal support.
Rofl

Yeah, there are soooooooooooooo many places on the internet that will help kids/teens with their school problems and will support them if they say they hate school, and won't be patronizing towards them at aaallllllllllll.... totally.

It's called School Survival for a reason. The reason is that it was the first name that popped into my head in 1999 when I started it, and I figured I could come up with a better name later. Well, I couldn't. It's still the most appropriate name I can think of, because it's totally 100% about surviving school. Not abolishing it. I don't know how you think a forum on the internet can actually abolish the compulsory schooling of an entire country, let alone the world.

Other than that, I agree with pretty much everything no said.

School was horribly destructive for me, and I'm still recovering from the damage, 17 years later. Should it cease to exist? No, some people do seem totally happy there. Should it be optional, and be easier for kids to get the hell out if it's destroying them? HELL YES! Can this small forum on the internet accomplish that? Not bloody likely.

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02-11-2017 09:00 AM
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Post: #26
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

governments and gangs are different only in the sense that one of them has more power. both tend to be racist. white guys gotta act black to roll with the black thugs. non-sicilians can't become made-men (according to Goodfellas). Black guys gotta act white to make it in american politics. Does anybody think schools operate on some separate human logic?

the SJW's are wrong, non-discrimination is probably never going to happen ever anywhere. Truth vs. falshood as defined by anyone leaves some outside the circle and some inside.

there was a reason I pointed out that sincerity is the core of all education, its because the true opposite of arrogance is sincerity. this because the notable difference between the sincere and the arrogant is that the sincere will find the truth but the arrogant will not. if you hold fast to such truth it wont have the appearance of humility.

this is why schools are different. the values that the people agree upon define how things should be and anything outside of that irks them.

we need to not just speak honestly, but to speak about honesty. we need rituals of respect and patience with disagreement. we need logic to be core and reasonableness to be allowed a forum. Mashwara as I've written about it is all about ritualizing sincerity.

arrogance is our true enemy and our true hero is sincerity, just being honest with ourselves and others.

the most destructive power of a school is its limits. walls that keep, something out, and protect... something inside. what then do we then decide to protect in our walls, and what do we keep out?

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(This post was last modified: 02-11-2017 03:48 PM by the Analogist.)
02-11-2017 03:43 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

my analogy:
our tree is looking sickly because a bunch of contaminents got into the soil. maybe we should cut off the ugliest branch?

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Wisdom is to follow only the Opinion which makes the best use of evidence.
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02-11-2017 03:52 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

Sometimes I feel like I'm being as honest and sincere as possible but people think I'm being arrogant.

If you want to be a different fish, you've got to jump out of the school.


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02-11-2017 05:09 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

same here

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02-11-2017 07:30 PM
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Aureate Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Bill introduced to abolish the Department of Education!

no Wrote:You're an idiot. First:
Zeta Wrote:How do you expect to ever accomplish anything if you aren’t even willing to contact people affiliated with someone that holds some views you disagree with?
Zeta Wrote:I will support anyone who agrees with my stance on education and oppose anyone who disagrees.

I don't think there's a contradiction there. In fact, I think those are saying pretty much the same thing. The second says that he cares about abolishing compulsory education to the exclusion of all other issues. The first implies that he's willing to put up with anyone who will help him towards that end. (Perhaps the confusion is that he assumes Geicosuave has the same overriding motive.)

Of course, there's a discussion to be had about whether abolishing the DoE would be as big of an achievement as Zeta says--my life so far wouldn't have looked much different--but I totally get what he means about being a single-issue voter.

It raises my eyebrows as well that people don't take compulsory education more seriously.

I can understand why someone who thinks school conveys essential skills isn't particularly troubled. I can also see why someone who doesn't think kids deserve the same rights as adults isn't concerned. But even some people on this site, who see school as a decade of uncompensated labor forced upon full members of society, don't react with the venom such a view would entail. They list it alongside implicit racism (which has no basis in law). If we tweaked a few details--like school is compulsory for blacks instead of kids--then maybe they would acknowledge that this is a humanitarian crisis of a unique tier.

Abortion generates the same weird paradox. People who say fetuses are as deserving as protection of babies should see abortion as one of the most horrifying, dystopian, coldly evil practices since the dawn of civilization. It should nauseate them daily. If they think babies are no different months before and months after birth, then they should react as pro-choicers would to a societal trend of murdering infants when they become inconvenient.

But they calmly debate it over Thanksgiving dinner.

If I sound like I'm casting judgement from a place of moral superiority, I'm sorry. I'm no different than the people I criticize. I rarely thought about abortion when I was pro-life. Now that I'm out of school, I don't think about that much either. And which of us would honestly have been bothered by slavery, had we lived during the thousands of years it was ubiquitous?

It's scary, but sometimes I wonder if the freedoms we defend are thinner than we realize. We can't imagine losing them while we have them, but we'd get over it if they evaporated.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2017 08:13 PM by Aureate.)
02-11-2017 07:42 PM
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