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City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear
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Jop Offline
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Post: #1
City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

You know those varying clothing restrictions that almost every school has? Well now they've expanded it outside of school.
This one ruling is temporary at least but it doesn't bode well.
To be precise, in certain cities it's now forbidden to wear a swimsuit that also covers your hair, because, uhm, terrorism and sexism apparently. Nutter

PBS Newshour Wrote:A beachgoer in Cannes, France, can now be fined and asked to leave the beach if caught wearing a “burkini,” a full-body swimsuit preferred by Muslim women.

Cannes mayor David Lisnard said the burkini is a “symbol of Islamic extremism” and might disturb the peace in the wake of Islamist attacks on France, BBC reported.

Lisnard’s new official ruling says that “access to beaches and for swimming is banned to any person wearing improper clothes that are not respectful of good morals and secularism.”

“Beachwear which ostentatiously displays religious affiliation, when France and places of worship are currently the target of terrorist attacks, is liable to create risks of disrupting public order,” the ruling continued.

The ruling is temporary and in effect until the end of August, the Associated Press reported. The penalty is a 38 euro fine.

The ban has received sharp criticism from French media. Le Monde, a French newspaper, challenged the law’s legality, while another French newspaper, Liberation, accused the ban of being purely political.

[...]

Italy has also put a stop to “burkinis” in certain parts of the country, The Telegraph reported.

[...]

The League of Human Rights said in a statement that it would challenge the “burkini” ban in court.

What the people supporting this have to say (actual quote from a French newspaper apparently): Rofl

Midi Libre Wrote:[This type of clothing is] a pretentious gesture that denies the body of a woman and is self-evidently seen as a provocation in the land of Chanel and Brigitte Bardot.

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(This post was last modified: 08-17-2016 05:55 AM by Jop.)
08-17-2016 05:54 AM
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SoulRiser Offline
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Post: #2
City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

Uhh... this is constructive how? Cuckoo

This cannot possibly make anything better. At all. In any way whatsoever. Ever. Only worse.

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08-17-2016 05:58 AM
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Jop Offline
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Post: #3
City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

Yeah. I know a lot of people are forced to wear these things by their religion, but, this? How is being forced not to wear something less bad than being forced to wear something?

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08-17-2016 06:10 AM
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no Offline
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Post: #4
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

"Not respectful of good morals and secularism" lolwut. Do they not realize theocracies say things like "you must be respectful of good morals and [religion]?" 'Good morals' is so subjective as to mean nothing. So, what are the good morals of secularism? Going by this it means you aren't allowed to wear clothing that reveals parts you don't want to reveal. So wanting to dress modestly (for a given value of modesty) is a crime now? How are they legally distinguishing this from just a shirt and pants? Do they?

This is just stupid on every imaginable level. "Denying the body of a woman?" So you are saying that her body is more important than her autonomy to choose what to wear. You have made it a law that women can't go to the beach in more than practically underwear regardless of whether they want to, and you claim to be against sexism?

What. The. Fuck.

I went to France when I was two and didn't remember it, nonetheless this makes me feel unclean. I will never go there again.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
08-17-2016 06:47 AM
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UnicornLionWolf Offline
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Post: #5
City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

Quote: Yeah. I know a lot of people are forced to wear these things by their religion, but, this? How is being forced not to wear something less bad than being forced to wear something?
Well said. I understand there being a backlash against radical Muslims, but this isn't going to stop terrorism. I think we all agree that preventing women from wearing their Islamic clothing won't fix anything.

Quote:"Not respectful of good morals and secularism" lolwut. Do they not realize theocracies say things like "you must be respectful of good morals and [religion]?"
Makes you wonder if they're become an atheocracy or something...

Quote:Going by this it means you aren't allowed to wear clothing that reveals parts you don't want to reveal. So wanting to dress modestly (for a given value of modesty) is a crime now?
It's like the opposite extreme on sexuality. One extreme doesn't allow you to wear revealing outfits and forces you to hide your sexuality. The other doesn't allow you to be modest and practice abstinence.

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08-17-2016 11:18 AM
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StrixDesmodus Offline
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Post: #6
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

(08-17-2016 06:47 AM)no Wrote:  "Not respectful of good morals and secularism" lolwut. Do they not realize theocracies say things like "you must be respectful of good morals and [religion]?" 'Good morals' is so subjective as to mean nothing. So, what are the good morals of secularism? Going by this it means you aren't allowed to wear clothing that reveals parts you don't want to reveal. So wanting to dress modestly (for a given value of modesty) is a crime now? How are they legally distinguishing this from just a shirt and pants? Do they?

This is just stupid on every imaginable level. "Denying the body of a woman?" So you are saying that her body is more important than her autonomy to choose what to wear. You have made it a law that women can't go to the beach in more than practically underwear regardless of whether they want to, and you claim to be against sexism?

What. The. Fuck.

I went to France when I was two and didn't remember it, nonetheless this makes me feel unclean. I will never go there again.

Good morals are good morals whether religious or secular, and part of good morals is letting people do harmless things, like wearing their preferred swimsuit for pete's sake instead denying them their religious decisions. It's a matter of religious freedom.
08-17-2016 03:57 PM
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no Offline
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Post: #7
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

Good morals are indeed subjective. People who think, for instance, that homosexuality is wrong, even though they are little more than hateful quidnuncs, do not magically cease to exist. They have taken as an axiom "everything in this book good moral advice" while you have taken as an axiom "you can do what you want without hurting anyone." I agree with you, but it's also important to remember that this is a gut feeling and there is exactly zero evidence for either position. You can't prove something moral or immoral. (Well, there is a school of thought that you can. But you can't prove whether or not it's possible to prove that something is moral.)

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
08-17-2016 05:49 PM
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StrixDesmodus Offline
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Post: #8
City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

I'd say you can prove what good morals are and aren't, it's just that loads of people don't bother to figure out if their or other sets of scruples are actually good ones.
But then again, even the above statement is kind of flawed when you take into account that what's harmless for some isn't so harmless for others, and sometimes people have no choice in some of their actions, and whatnot. And of course there'll always be somebody to argue with you, even if it ends up being yourself.
In other words, we're both damn right. XD
08-17-2016 06:02 PM
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Post: #9
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

Europe's sadly going through a movement where far right fringes are taking mainstream stage. If the British economy collapses, then these far right fringes will disappear.

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08-19-2016 05:55 PM
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Jop Offline
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Post: #10
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

(08-17-2016 03:57 PM)Lucky-Feet Wrote:  It's a matter of religious freedom.

Freedom in general. Some non-religious people wear that type of swimsuit too; not because they are forced to but because they like it. It's not a burqa.

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(This post was last modified: 08-19-2016 07:15 PM by Jop.)
08-19-2016 07:13 PM
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Post: #11
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

(08-19-2016 07:13 PM)Jop Wrote:  
(08-17-2016 03:57 PM)Lucky-Feet Wrote:  It's a matter of religious freedom.

Freedom in general. Some non-religious people wear that type of swimsuit too; not because they are forced to but because they like it. It's not a burqa.

True. I forgot that in light that is was because of religious paranoia that they banned it.
08-19-2016 07:45 PM
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Benjavaz Offline
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Post: #12
City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

This is dangerous for Muslim women. They usually aren't given a choice of whether they cover up or not. There is a patriarchy in the middle east and so if these people don't cover up, they get murdered by other Muslims. But yes I agree putting a restriction on certain clothing is fucking retarded.

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06-09-2017 08:53 PM
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Gwedin Offline
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Post: #13
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

(06-09-2017 08:53 PM)Benjavaz Wrote:  This is dangerous for Muslim women. They usually aren't given a choice of whether they cover up or not. There is a patriarchy in the middle east and so if these people don't cover up, they get murdered by other Muslims. But yes I agree putting a restriction on certain clothing is fucking retarded.

muslims that are willing to murder or even beat female muslims for not wearing their stupid clothing don't belong in secular countries tbh.

why is this in school talk anyway

fucking retards smh
(This post was last modified: 06-10-2017 12:08 PM by Gwedin.)
06-10-2017 12:06 PM
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Post: #14
City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

I think it's in school talk because it's similar to how schools decide what students can and can't wear.

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Gwedin Offline
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City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

only the first line was really related to school. it was clearly intended to be a thread more political in nature and that's how it developed.
06-10-2017 01:19 PM
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Jop Offline
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RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

No, Korravatar is right. Others turned it into religion-related politics.

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(This post was last modified: 06-10-2017 11:46 PM by Jop.)
06-10-2017 11:27 PM
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City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

lol sure whatever
06-11-2017 06:37 AM
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the Analogist Offline
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Post: #18
RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

im going to not say anything.

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06-11-2017 08:09 AM
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Jop Offline
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RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

Not true, you said "im not going to say anything".

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06-11-2017 08:43 AM
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RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

im hiding behind my words. dont make me take my words off

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06-11-2017 06:42 PM
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RE: City mayors may now decide what you can or can't wear

(08-19-2016 05:55 PM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  Europe's sadly going through a movement where far right fringes are taking mainstream stage. If the British economy collapses, then these far right fringes will disappear.

Quite the opposite actually in most cases but seeing as Brexit was essentially stamped by the right-wing, then everything going to shit will be blamed on them. Where they're not in power though, a growing economy totally deflates their "muh economy being destroyed" narrative.

Look at what happened to the German right-wing when news of a five-year positive growth report came up. Totally shut em up when they were spending the last few months screaming about how refugees and immigrants were destroying the economy and they had "proof" of it.

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