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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

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Aversion to Asexuality (split discussion)
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Cianna200 Offline
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Post: #1
Aversion to Asexuality (split discussion)

You bring up very interesting and valid points.
It doesn't have to be romantic relationships, love is not inherently romantic.
People have made love synonymous with romance, romance is a type of love, it is not love itself.

There is platonic love (friendship)

Storge (family love)

Altruistic love (Desire to help people without selfish motives)

Agape love (Love for mankind and possibly animals too)

Divine love (Love eternal)

However, we are taught that romantic love is superior to all of these forms of love, that friendship is less, a good reason why we almost always go for romance. Here is an article from a well known asexual and aromantic activist named Ivy about her friendship with a man. I picked her because I follow her basically, she's been real helpful, even though I have seen other good articles about the significance of platonic love compared to romantic love.

http://swankivy.tumblr.com/post/14496317...r-feelings
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2016 08:24 AM by Cianna200.)
06-27-2016 06:58 AM
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Post: #2
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

<derails thread like a retard>
(This post was last modified: 08-09-2016 05:41 AM by gone.)
06-28-2016 02:41 AM
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Post: #3
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

(06-28-2016 02:41 AM)Neohax Wrote:  Now, me personally? Believe it or not, I happen to be asexual myself, and while I generally don't give a shit about people talking about sexual nonsense (heck, I even make sex jokes, albeit ironically), some of the things people would do is kind of sad.
(06-28-2016 02:41 AM)Neohax Wrote:  I also don't understand why people assume that "love without sex" isn't a concept to them, but "sex without love" is. I'm the type that wants to be in divine love (or rather, a long-term/lifelong relationship) with someone, but sadly, a good majority of people I can find isn't serious about that, and is more along the lines of "OH-HO SHIT, BAE GOT A NICE BIG PAIR OF ASS AND TITTIES, AIN'T NO GIT GUNNA TRY AND STEAL MY GURL WITH THEIR STANK AEES, NIGGA"
(06-28-2016 02:41 AM)Neohax Wrote:  Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not shitting on heterosexuality like it's the TRUE AND STRIVED WAY TO LIVE AS A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF SOCIETY. I have absolutely no problem with any who are heterosexual. It's heteronormativity I have a problem with, as it basically idealizes heterosexuality as the norm, and if you're anything else that's not straight, well your just abnormal and should be cured with BLEACH, HOLY WATER, AND PLAYBOY! Just like society's other ideals that falls flat on it's ass, it's one thing to simply not like people who are gay or bi or whatever, but when it gets to the point where you feel the urge to get violent with someone simply because they're not straight? Then it becomes an entirely different can of worms there.
Same, on all counts.

As for the earlier point about love being love, I agree. It's all the same thing, but nonetheless, there are distinctions between them, the most famous "set" being the concept of the four loves. (Someone paraphrased them earlier, but I'll rephrase.)

Storge is affection generated through familiarity; it's the type of bond that can - but doesn't always - develop between family members, or other people forced together by chance.

Philia is a strong bond instigated by commonality; it's companionship, the kind of thing you share with good friends who have the same interests or participate in the same activities you do.

Eros is what you get when you fall in love. (Which, I believe, is the topic of the thread.) It's an intimate emotional connection, capable of incorporating lust or sexuality (more so than the other loves, anyway), but not innately bound to either of those things.

Agape is my favorite one. It's unconditional love. It's what strengthens the soul and makes one feel whole. It's the most mature, yet intense kind of love - the kind one might expect God to have for all of humanity, or what one would encourage all of humankind to have for one another. (An almost spiritual concept, in that regard.)

There are a lot of "smaller" types of love as well, and there can certainly be overlap between these categories. So, I guess the point of this thread is to ask what makes eros - romantic love - so special?

Public Service Announcement: First world problems are still problems.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 03:42 AM by Ky.)
06-28-2016 03:41 AM
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Post: #4
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

Cianna200 Wrote:http://swankivy.tumblr.com/post/14496317...r-feelings

I feel like she overreacted to the comment. Yes, most people associate love with sexuality, but I don't understand why she cares if other people think of love in a different way than her.

Neohax Wrote:Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not shitting on heterosexuality like it's the TRUE AND STRIVED WAY TO LIVE AS A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF SOCIETY. I have absolutely no problem with any who are heterosexual. It's heteronormativity I have a problem with, as it basically idealizes heterosexuality as the norm, and if you're anything else that's not straight, well your just abnormal and should be cured with BLEACH, HOLY WATER, AND PLAYBOY!

Heteronormativity exists in our society because being heterosexual is the norm (as in, the majority of people are heterosexual). I don't understand why this bothers people, though. I don't think most people actually give a shit about someone being asexual (they might think it's strange, because the majority of people do not feel the same way, but that's not the same thing as them trying to "cure you").

It's kind of like a vegetarian complaining about how other people eat meat and how eating meat is seen as "normal"... but no one's forcing the vegetarian to eat meat, or gives a shit about the vegetarian's diet. So I don't understand what they're upset about.
06-28-2016 03:55 AM
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Cianna200 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

I feel like she overreacted to the comment. Yes, most people associate love with sexuality, but I don't understand why she cares if other people think of love in a different way than her.

She did not overreact to the comment at all, nor does she care about people thinking of love differently, she was upset because of this stupid mentality of the vast majority of people that her non romantic relationships is inferior to their partnerships or that it doesn't count as love because it's friendly and doesn't fit into their way.
Sometimes when someone says someone else is "overreacting" their saying that they have no right to be upset or that they don't have a real problem here.
I can see why she would get upset, some moron who happened to be prejudiced against Asexuals told her that it's ironic to be wearing a t shirt with love on it if she's aromantic, which clearly means that he believes aromantics are incapable of feeling love because "love is romantic and nothing else".
So basically he was telling her that she couldn't feel love, at the same time, that person told her before that he believes aromantics aren't human. Getting angry is a proper response for your identity/or outlook being mocked or judged as something that is not real or at least something that is not important.
06-28-2016 04:16 AM
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Post: #6
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

Dead Wrote:Heteronormativity exists in our society because being heterosexual is the norm (as in, the majority of people are heterosexual). I don't understand why this bothers people, though. I don't think most people actually give a shit about someone being asexual (they might think it's strange, because the majority of people do not feel the same way, but that's not the same thing as them trying to "cure you").

It's kind of like a vegetarian complaining about how other people eat meat and how eating meat is seen as "normal"... but no one's forcing the vegetarian to eat meat, or gives a shit about the vegetarian's diet. So I don't understand what they're upset about.

I might've worded it or phrased it all wrong, so let me reiterate: I don't necessarily mind heteronormativity as much as I make it sound like I do. But when it kind of gets to the point where the person is hetero and they have to constantly remind people that they're straight, it kind of gets irritating to me. Especially when elitism goes into heteronormativity does it get worse. I may have gone off on a tangent there and didn't realize what I said could've been interpreted the wrong way.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 04:20 AM by gone.)
06-28-2016 04:19 AM
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Cianna200 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

Heteronormativity exists in our society because being heterosexual is the norm (as in, the majority of people are heterosexual). I don't understand why this bothers people, though.

It bothers people because it dismisses other sexualities as lesser or abnormal.

I don't think most people actually give a shit about someone being asexual (they might think it's strange, because the majority of people do not feel the same way, but that's not the same thing as them trying to "cure you").

You do realize that people shit on Asexuals all the time, from discrimination, to bullying, to offensive concern, to disgust, to shaming them from some supposed lack of interest in sex, and being furious at them for not being like everyone else. Not to mention there is corrective rape that Asexuals face. Also some people have sex with Asexuals in the hopes of changing them.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 04:43 AM by Cianna200.)
06-28-2016 04:22 AM
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Post: #8
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

Asexuality has a fairly horrible community.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
06-28-2016 04:30 AM
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Post: #9
Aversion to Asexuality (split discussion)

How so exactly?
06-28-2016 04:31 AM
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Post: #10
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

no Wrote:Asexuality has a fairly horrible community.

Well, I've never delved into the asexual community myself, so I can't say whether that claim's legit or not.
06-28-2016 04:35 AM
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

(06-28-2016 04:22 AM)Cianna200 Wrote:  You do realize that people shit on Asexuals all the time, from discrimination, to bullying, to offensive concern, to disgust, to shaming them from some supposed lack of interest in sex, and being furious at them for not being like everyone else. Not to mention there is corrective rape that Asexuals face. Also some people have sex with Asexuals in the hopes of changing them.

Define "all the time".

I'm not saying that there's never been a case of an asexual being treated poorly, but I haven't heard of them being treated so disproportionately badly.
06-28-2016 07:25 AM
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Cianna200 Offline
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

All the time as in every day. You could look up asexual discrimination or the like.
Here are two articles at least. There are plenty of cases and articles though. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/20...0551.html.

https://asexualcatholic.wordpress.com/20...-asexuals/
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 08:00 AM by Cianna200.)
06-28-2016 07:48 AM
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Post: #13
Why do people want to be in a relationship?

Those aren't problems unique to the asexual community though.
06-28-2016 08:24 AM
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Cianna200 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

However your two statements are

"I haven't heard of them being treated so disproportionately badly."

"I don't think most people actually give a shit about someone being asexual (they might think it's strange, because the majority of people do not feel the same way, but that's not the same thing as them trying to "cure you"). "

I was trying to show you that Asexuals do indeed deal with serious issues regarded with how they are treated and that many people do care that there are Asexuals. I know these problems are not just with Asexuals but they still are serious. The problems don't have to be unique, they just have to be important.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 08:54 AM by Cianna200.)
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Post: #15
Why do people want to be in a relationship?

But if the issues don't affect them significantly more than other groups, then it's not an issue specifically related to asexualism.

For example, rape. Yes, some people do target asexuals. But people also do that to people of other sexualities, and (from my understanding) asexuals are not specifically targeted significantly more than people of other sexualities.
06-28-2016 09:26 AM
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

You aren't getting my point, my point is that asexuals do face problems from other people that make them suffer, as the answer to your statement that you did not believe that people don't care if they are asexual, or that there problems may not be disproportionately bad.


For example, rape. Yes, some people do target asexuals

But don't you see by saying that you "haven't heard of them being treated so disproportionately badly," you are saying that you aren't aware that rape happens to them?
06-28-2016 09:36 AM
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Post: #17
Why do people want to be in a relationship?

I am aware that asexuals are raped, but I don't believe they're raped significantly more than people of other sexualities. I don't believe that most of the time, asexuals are raped because they are asexual.
06-28-2016 09:44 AM
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Post: #18
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

They are raped primarily by people who believe they can make them sexual/ sexually attracted to people, by corrective rape, so it is about their asexual status that the rapist sees as a problem he or she needs to fix.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 10:22 AM by Cianna200.)
06-28-2016 10:21 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

(06-28-2016 10:21 AM)Cianna200 Wrote:  They are raped primarily by people who believe they can make them sexual/ sexually attracted to people, by corrective rape, so it is about their asexual status that the rapist sees as a problem he or she needs to fix.

But they aren't specifically targeted more than people of other sexualities.

(06-28-2016 10:23 AM)Neohax Wrote:  Well shit. I unintentionally managed to derail from romantic relationship theories to this.

Not sure how to feel about this honestly.

Threads on here get derailed all the time, it's fine. If a mod feels the need to split it, they will.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 10:40 AM by Dead.)
06-28-2016 10:39 AM
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

But they aren't specifically targeted more than people of other sexualities.

The point is however is that they are victimized, and it has been proven that Asexuals suffer more mistreatment than other sexualities, gay people and bi people are getting more accepted, but not Asexuals.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 10:49 AM by Cianna200.)
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

(06-28-2016 10:45 AM)Cianna200 Wrote:  The point is however is that they are victimized, and it has been proven that Asexuals suffer more mistreatment than other sexualities, gay people and bi people are getting more accepted, but not Asexuals.

Even if they are victimized by some people, that doesn't mean that most people give a shit about them (which was my point - I didn't mean asexuals never face mistreatment, but saying that asexuals are "shit on all the time" makes it sound like the majority of people have a problem with them and go out of their way to victimize them).
06-28-2016 11:03 AM
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

Most people do have a problem with them, mainly because we live in a society saturated in and obsessed with sex, and to hear about the existence of people who may think differently from society is offensive to a bunch of people.
Imagine living in a world where almost everyone was absolutely in love with something, (it was the norm) and you weren't, people would go "OMG, how can you not like _?!" They than judge you as evil, disgusting, and inhuman for not feeling the same way as them.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 11:26 AM by Cianna200.)
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

(06-28-2016 11:16 AM)Cianna200 Wrote:  Most people do have a problem with them, mainly because we live in a society saturated in and obsessed with sex, and to hear about the existence of people who may think differently from society is offensive to a bunch of people.
Imagine living in a world where almost everyone was absolutely in love with something, (it was the norm) and you weren't, people would go "OMG, how can you not like _?!" They than judge you as evil, disgusting, and inhuman for not feeling the same way as them.

How do you know that most people think asexuals are "evil, disgusting, and inhuman" for being asexual though? Have you gone up to most of the human population and asked what their opinion is on them?
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 11:43 AM by Dead.)
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Post: #24
RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

I have a friend who is probably asexual. The only reason I'd like to see him get married is to have the company of somebody who can serve as an adviser he confides in and trusts because he's kind of weird and not having a partner in life to guide him isn't helping.

He's actually a great guy, but socially people don't get him. I would honestly say its entirely their fault though. I know of way too many people being stupid about other people based on nothing. I've definitely been the recipient of crap like that, but not on nearly as a bad a scale as him.

Hey, remember how we all went to school to get socialized????

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06-28-2016 02:22 PM
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

I have to change back to the topic, because this is getting out of hand.

He doesn't need a romantic partner, why not a life partner who is not romantic.

I can relate to him I believe, being seen as a weirdo and social people don't get
get me.

I think it's crap that people say school is for socialization when socializing is usually forbidden, I mean how many times have we heard "shut up and stop talking. Anti home school and unschooling people like to use that argument to defend school.
(This post was last modified: 06-28-2016 09:30 PM by Cianna200.)
06-28-2016 09:20 PM
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Post: #26
Why do people want to be in a relationship?

For one, it's a hate crime if someone, lets say, stabs a black/gay/lesbian/transgender/asexual person for being black/gay/lesbian/transgender/asexual. In such cases the motive differentiates the crime from any regular ol' stabbing; that the victim wasn't attacked because the perpetrator wanted money; he/she was attacked because he/she was something the perpetrator took offense to.

Yes, rapes happen, but if the victim was targeted because of their sexuality- or lack of- it's a hate crime. Same goes for race, gender, etc.
Quote:But if the issues don't affect them significantly more than other groups, then it's not an issue specifically related to asexualism.

For example, rape. Yes, some people do target asexuals. But people also do that to people of other sexualities, and (from my understanding) asexuals are not specifically targeted significantly more than people of other sexualities.

As for statistics, I can't know that they're treated worse than the general population, but the fact that they're being treated badly in the first place should warrant attention.

To reiterate, if the perpetrator targets someone because of their gender/skin color/sexuality, it is an issue that needs to be addressed. Numbers don't matter to me in such scenarios.
As somebody who believes that nobody deserves rape, your comment was chilling to read.

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06-29-2016 12:51 AM
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RE: Why do people want to be in a relationship?

(06-29-2016 12:51 AM)Rule_BreakerXVIII Wrote:  As for statistics, I can't know that they're treated worse than the general population, but the fact that they're being treated badly in the first place should warrant attention.

But Cianna's post:
Quote:You do realize that people shit on Asexuals all the time, from discrimination, to bullying, to offensive concern, to disgust, to shaming them from some supposed lack of interest in sex, and being furious at them for not being like everyone else. Not to mention there is corrective rape that Asexuals face. Also some people have sex with Asexuals in the hopes of changing them.
Implies that asexuals are treated worse than the general population. Yes, I understand some people treat asexuals badly, but that applies to pretty much every group on the planet. My point was I don't think that most people hate/want to harm asexuals, or that asexuals are much more likely to be targeted than other groups.

Rule_BreakerXVIII Wrote:As somebody who believes that nobody deserves rape, your comment was chilling to read.

I never said that anyone "deserves" rape.
06-29-2016 01:37 AM
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Ky Offline
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Post: #28
Aversion to Asexuality (split discussion)

Decided to just make this its own discussion.

Nice to see some fellow asexuals here, but instead of ganging up on Dead, I think I'm just going to leave this here and let you draw your own conclusions.

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06-29-2016 02:43 AM
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the Analogist Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Aversion to Asexuality (split discussion)

"He doesn't need a romantic partner, why not a life partner who is not romantic."

Bear in mind I never make this advice, its just something I think. I just know that in spite of our relationship, i've felt I wasnt taken seriously before. For me romance comes with a kind of seriousness (i dont believe in dating) so based on that ethic, its more likely for a spouse to fill the role of confidant/advisor than I who may be his closest friend, and we're not that close.

Purity is to Believe only that which deserves it.
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(This post was last modified: 06-29-2016 03:45 AM by the Analogist.)
06-29-2016 03:43 AM
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Cianna200 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Aversion to Asexuality (split discussion)

Unfortunately, many people don't take friendship seriously, this is a problem.
If a friend is someone you care about, shouldn't you be loyal and devoted?
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2016 04:10 AM by Cianna200.)
06-29-2016 04:06 AM
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