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**SoulRiser** · 06-26-2016 04:29 AM

What is it about the specific structure of (romantic?) types of relationships that makes people want them specifically, as opposed to being satisfied with less confusing relationships, like friendship?

Genuinely curious about what you guys think. I have some vague ideas, but to be honest, this whole concept confuses me.

Ky · 06-26-2016 04:38 AM

That's a great question that I don't have an answer for!

Or, at least, a coherent one. I love the idea of romance and would love to get back into a relationship, but it is immensely frustrating and emotionally painful when it doesn't work out the way you hoped.

Dead · 06-26-2016 05:08 AM

Sex.

**SoulRiser** · 06-26-2016 08:34 AM

Quote:I love the idea of romance and would love to get back into a relationship

What do you love about it?

Quote:Sex.

Plenty of people do that outside of relationships too...

Dead · 06-26-2016 09:47 AM

(06-26-2016 08:34 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:Sex.
Plenty of people do that outside of relationships too...

Right, but by being in a monogamous relationship, it ensures the other person won't fuck other people (unless they cheat).

Ky · 06-26-2016 12:10 PM

(06-26-2016 09:47 AM)Dead Wrote:
(06-26-2016 08:34 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:Sex.
Plenty of people do that outside of relationships too...

Right, but by being in a monogamous relationship, it ensures the other person won't fuck other people (unless they cheat).

And that's necessary why?

Dead · 06-26-2016 12:58 PM

(06-26-2016 12:10 PM)Chiron Wrote:
(06-26-2016 09:47 AM)Dead Wrote:
(06-26-2016 08:34 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:Sex.
Plenty of people do that outside of relationships too...

Right, but by being in a monogamous relationship, it ensures the other person won't fuck other people (unless they cheat).

And that's necessary why?

It's not. But some people would feel disgusted by the idea of their partner fucking someone else.

the Analogist · 06-26-2016 02:43 PM

Sex

Also, for whatever reason, I wanted that first thing in the morning company/warmth/love and especially at the end of the night. This was when I was single. I hated that what love I had in my heart had no proper companion to share. I always found the idea of somebody who similarly felt unloved attractive because I felt I could be the one to fill that role. I feel the same about my kids, that I don't want them to ever feel like they can't come to me with their worries, problems, or mistakes. So part of my love for them is a kind of rubber-band effect from feeling unloved myself.

The way I advise people on why to get married, I have two reasons, the second one religious (Islam)

(1) Women tend to have no inhibitions when it comes to nagging or criticizing their man. This is true at least where I come from (central Illinois). It is a most wonderful asset if you can tolerate it because in the outside world if you are being a stupid asshole, NOBODY is ever going to tell you that. But if you bring stories of your day home you now have this wonderful resource to be like "actually that was pretty dumb" etc.

(2) Taking care of your wife carries the reward of charity, even fulfilling her sexual desires. I liken this to pizza, just eating it by yourself without company will feed your body, but buying some for your wife not only can make her happy, you get the reward for charity, there is more blessing in the food since you are sharing it, and you get to eat pizza too. Unmarried men don't typically have a regular opportunity for charity of that kind.

When my wife is out of town with the kids and I'm by myself I have a really hard time making myself do any work at all, let alone getting out of bed. I feel really nervous and restless when I do go to that cold bed with an empty slot. Working for my family in the way of cooking and other stuff gives me a great sense of purpose and satisfaction that I make the lives of my people better. My job does not offer such satisfaction, but I recognize it as necessary to keep that roof up and the groceries coming in. Without my wife and kids, I feel useless.

UnicornLionWolf · 06-26-2016 04:07 PM

Like others have mentioned, sex. I know one can have sex outside of a relationship, but banging multiple people runs an STD risk.

I think we all have this perception that romantic love is on a deeper level. Maybe it is. I've never really been in a relationship. And yet, I feel as though I desire romantic love.

I think there's also a degree of pressure society puts on us to be in one. Don't get me wrong, to a certain degree this desire exists naturally. But we've gotten to the point where children will start dating before they hit puberty. I guess it goes to show how sex-saturated thing are.

Cianna200 · 06-27-2016 01:44 AM

To be happy, simple as that, that's what people are hoping for, happiness, that is the be all- end all. Society says happiness, especially long lasting happiness is found in the form of romance. We are taught family and friendship is not enough, that they don't/can't bring this all consuming joy, so we devalue them, (we even had to invent a word called Friendzone to show how friendship is unwanted not to mention incest is getting more accepted) and instead Chase after romantic relationships. Like religion teaches you that there is only one way to heaven and that way is their way. If I were to date anyone, it would be in my dreams

**SoulRiser** · 06-27-2016 05:22 AM

So basically, so far it seems people feel like they want it, but they're not entirely sure how to explain the reason(s) they want it... it seems like they want a special person to compensate for something they lack in themselves...

If you are 100% happy on your own, you love yourself, you have everything else you want in life, you never have to do anything you don't want to... will you still want a relationship then? If so, for what reason?

I can think of a possible reason: To share all of that happiness with someone... but... I still don't see why it has to be a romantic relationship specifically. A close friend would work just as well... or more than one.

I think that labeling a relationship you have with a person actually limits it. If you call someone your friend, then that's all they can be. I only use the term 'friend' because it's the broadest label for describing a relationship that I can think of.

the Analogist · 06-27-2016 06:36 AM

(06-27-2016 05:22 AM)SoulRiser Wrote: it seems like they want a special person to compensate for something they lack in themselves...

Although I would argue that love is an outpouring for which a human target is needed...

anyway...

I believe the Islamic explanation, that the souls of all humans were created as one, and they were first divided into male and female, and from there subdivided into every single human being.

That "something" we were lacking was our complete humanity.

Cianna200 · 06-27-2016 06:49 AM

In terms of religion, divine/agape love or love for all life is what we should have, as it brings more light into the world and heals the emptiness within us.

We don't need another human to complete us, even if you find a partner, and even if you love them with all your heart, you can still feel lonely. Love for one's self, is what really brings happiness, love for another being just complements it.

Ky · 06-27-2016 07:18 AM

(06-27-2016 05:22 AM)SoulRiser Wrote: If you are 100% happy on your own, you love yourself, you have everything else you want in life, you never have to do anything you don't want to... will you still want a relationship then? If so, for what reason?

I'd be inclined to come up with an answer if I knew a single person who felt that way. I theorize, then, that we seek out relationships to fill a certain void within ourselves.

(06-27-2016 05:22 AM)SoulRiser Wrote: I can think of a possible reason: To share all of that happiness with someone... but... I still don't see why it has to be a romantic relationship specifically. A close friend would work just as well... or more than one.

Well, romance tends to be more intimate than any other form of relationship (though such strong bonds could presumably emerge from any kind of love given enough time and care), and intimately-shared happiness is perhaps the grandest form of happiness.

(06-27-2016 05:22 AM)SoulRiser Wrote: If you call someone your friend, then that's all they can be.

I disagree. I feel that identity is not a prospect of mutual exclusivity - that a person can be more than one thing in the eyes of another.

Besides, it's often said between close couples that they're simultaneously lovers and best friends. That doesn't seem a coincidence to me.

Cianna200 · 06-27-2016 08:07 AM

I'd be inclined to come up with an answer if I knew a single person who felt that way.

I do know one person, very happy and fulfilled in her life, without a romantic partnership, she doesn't even want one.

no · 06-27-2016 01:42 PM

Sometimes people are just stupid.

UnicornLionWolf · 06-27-2016 03:01 PM

(06-27-2016 01:44 AM)Cianna200 Wrote: To be happy, simple as that, that's what people are hoping for, happiness, that is the be all- end all. Society says happiness, especially long lasting happiness is found in the form of romance. We are taught family and friendship is not enough, that they don't/can't bring this all consuming joy, so we devalue them, (we even had to invent a word called Friendzone to show how friendship is unwanted not to mention incest is getting more accepted) and instead Chase after romantic relationships. Like religion teaches you that there is only one way to heaven and that way is their way. If I were to date anyone, it would be in my dreams

It seems like to a large degree we're believing what society teaches us...which is ironic because these forums are a rebellion against society to an extent.

But what can we say? As much as we'd like to think of ourselves as pure free-thinkers, I think no one's completely immune to messages that society repeats over and over and the majority take for granted.

(06-27-2016 08:07 AM)Cianna200 Wrote: I'd be inclined to come up with an answer if I knew a single person who felt that way.

I do know one person, very happy and fulfilled in her life, without a romantic partnership, she doesn't even want one.

I think the type of love our society emphasizes the most is romantic love. Maybe she has love from close friends or family, and is satisfied. But not all of us are capable of fulfilling a vow of celibacy. That's why some monks and nuns fail.

**SoulRiser** · 06-28-2016 12:58 AM

Quote:There is platonic love (friendship)

Storge (family love)

Altruistic love (Desire to help people without selfish motives)

Agape love (Love for mankind and possibly animals too)

Divine love (Love eternal)

I think a large part of my confusion is that I see all of the types of love as the same thing. They are all divine love to me. The only "odd one out" is "romantic love", which I don't really consider as a type of love, more as a distraction from it, it's like this accessory of confusion. It masquerades as deep and eternal, but really isn't. Which is why I really don't understand why people want it... unless what they really want is actually divine love, but they have it confused with romantic love... that would make sense to me.

I'm probably an alien.

**SoulRiser** · 06-28-2016 01:29 AM

Quote:I disagree. I feel that identity is not a prospect of mutual exclusivity - that a person can be more than one thing in the eyes of another.

Besides, it's often said between close couples that they're simultaneously lovers and best friends. That doesn't seem a coincidence to me.

I also disagree, in the sense that a label is just a word and doesn't actually limit anything. But for a lot of people, once they've labeled and categorized something, it's easier to keep it in that box than it is to broaden it and then think up ways to re-label and call it something else. I prefer to just avoid labels entirely, but that makes it more difficult to communicate with people, unfortunately.

Cianna200 · 06-28-2016 01:56 AM

You are right, it's all love, or love overall I will say. No matter what type they are still they are love. They are all equal, except divine love which is complete and absolute, so it's highest. However our society has decided that love be the same as romance, this is the problem. It teaches that romance is something "more" when in actuality it's the most destructive form of love, deeply seated in selfishness, possession and gratification, it usually survives on any kind of attraction. Which is a good reason I question it as love, unless one's romantic love was lacking in self centered motives.
To tell you the truth, romantic love and divine love are the only sources of love not natural, romantic love (at least relationship)/ was invented and divine love is outside human understanding. Romance can be deep or it can be weak, you can have a romance with someone you only knew for one day, and it ends just like that, no more attraction. You can be romantically involved with someone for years and see them as the most important person in your life. However this can happen between friends and family members too. Many Christians see Jesus as the most important figure in their lives. While you can be fighting your husband or wife constantly about other people, money, sex, chores, not helping you, another person could be risking their own life to save a friend. While a couple is going through a divorce, a father and son could be spending the whole day together, sharing fond memories. I know a person very close to their best friend, very loyal and unselfish, something many romantic relationships lack. A good reason I loved the movie Frozen, was that it showed that true love doesn't have to be romantic, it was the love of two sisters that brought back harmony, and shown to be the strongest love.

In the end the desire for pleasure and happiness is why people enter romantic relationships, I can't think of a single person who wants a boyfriend or girlfriend because they are already happy and want someone to share it with.

People confuse strong positive feelings for romantic love all the time unfortunately.

Not a bad thing, I consider myself an alien too sometimes, but I am okay with it.

Unfortunately, society teaches a lot of things harmful in the long run (like, school).

Rule_BreakerXVIII · 06-28-2016 03:24 AM

Satanism (as well as Objectivism, apparently) define love as an exclusively selfish desire...and that's pretty true, at least for me.

Quote:When you are in love, it means that the person you love is of great personal, selfish importance to you and to your life. If you were selfless, it would have to mean that you derive no personal pleasure or happiness from the company and the existence of the person you love, and that you are motivated only by self-sacrificial pity for that person’s need of you. I don’t have to point out to you that no one would be flattered by, nor would accept, a concept of that kind. Love is not self-sacrifice, but the most profound assertion of your own needs and values. It is for your own happiness that you need the person you love, and that is the greatest compliment, the greatest tribute you can pay to that person.

Playboy Interview: Ayn Rand
Playboy, March 1964

Quote:Along with Me, I love He Who Is Not Me, my husband. He is, for one thing, the consciousness in which I can see a wonderful reflection of my own God, myself. His love for me qualifies him with the very best of taste and discernment, after all; he obviously knows what’s good for him.

From here.

Apart from that...the obvious answer would be that we trust those we enter a romantic relationship with more, and on a deeper level than we would with others-lifelong friends included. Of course...whether that trust is deserved or returned is an entirely different issue.

When I think about it, a romantic relationship isn't all that alien or impossible for me; it's just contingent on finding a sane, intelligent individual whom I can connect with and trust.

And this quiz. My result was this:

Quote:You Are Looking for a Mind Mate.

You are a tough, no-nonsense type who takes a no frills approach to life. You're not afraid to dig in and get things done.
You are analytical and focused. You always have your goals in mind, and you are skeptical of anyone who gets in your way.

You want to be with someone who is equally direct and driven. You don't have time for distractions or drama.
You admire someone who knows what they want, and you want a partner who is sure they want to be with you.

You and your mind mate will be an unstoppable force. You both know how to prioritize what matters.
You won't spend a lot of time talking about feelings and problems. You'll either solve them or move on from them.

There are only 4 results, but this was pretty accurate.

no · 06-28-2016 04:54 AM

No you aren't going insane, I did post here. I removed it cause it was off topic. TY.

UnicornLionWolf · 06-29-2016 06:06 AM

(06-28-2016 12:58 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:
Quote:There is platonic love (friendship)

Storge (family love)

Altruistic love (Desire to help people without selfish motives)

Agape love (Love for mankind and possibly animals too)

Divine love (Love eternal)

I think a large part of my confusion is that I see all of the types of love as the same thing. They are all divine love to me. The only "odd one out" is "romantic love", which I don't really consider as a type of love, more as a distraction from it, it's like this accessory of confusion. It masquerades as deep and eternal, but really isn't. Which is why I really don't understand why people want it... unless what they really want is actually divine love, but they have it confused with romantic love... that would make sense to me.

I'm probably an alien.

Divine love probably refers to God. Maybe that's what one needs.

Eh, don't worry about being an alien. I'm a pariah.

Cianna200 · 06-29-2016 06:44 AM

Although there of course are atheists, Divine love is the most important love, it's perfect, everlasting and selfless, so no amount of human love can compare. Here's something shocking I learned about the New testament, either romantic love is mentioned only once or twice or it's not mentioned at all, only the other kinds of love, especially agape.

**SoulRiser** · 06-29-2016 11:29 AM

Hmm, so I guess I have some more ideas. Thanks guys. Although I still don't know how to relate to people who want to be in a relationship, or who are already in one. I just always feel odd/awkward/inappropriate somehow when trying to relate. It's annoying because I think it gets in the way of being friends with those people. I worry that I'm somehow going to screw it up for them (most of my friends are male).

the Analogist · 06-29-2016 03:24 PM

The feelings you are trying to relate to can only be related to by experience, otherwise youre an ever distant psychologist making a dry and probably inaccurate theory.

And since these feelings are so personal in nature, you probably should feel odd trying to relate since its a kind of boundary where others dont really belong.

I would say as a man that if a women wasnt sufficiently older and/or less attractive and became curious about my marriage, I would certainly put up more social barriers in addition to the ones I already have around women. Such a person would get terse and uninformative responses.

Cianna200 · 06-29-2016 08:06 PM

I feel it's hard being friends with anyone (especially the opposite gender)
because of the romance problem. If my female friend gets a boyfriend, sooner or later I will be tossed aside or dubbed relatively unimportant.
If my male friend falls in love with me, (which has an over 90% chance of happening) I will be accused of being a friendzoner
because I wouldn't want a romantic relationship. I freaking hate the term Friendzone, it makes my blood boil. The only friend I could hope to have is another aromantic, but they are uncommon.

the Analogist · 06-30-2016 01:26 AM

What's funny is that this is something I have little context for. Part of my aversion to women is from religious etiquette, but also from the fact that I have a very high attraction to women. If they show a glimmer of any of the real qualities I find important, and they are good looking, I either become enchanted or have to just totally shut it down and avoid that person.

My wife finds most women fickle so she'd prefer guy friends which makes me feel... weird.

brainiac3397 · 06-30-2016 01:51 PM

Social nature of humans.

**SoulRiser** · 07-01-2016 02:10 AM

Quote:My wife finds most women fickle so she'd prefer guy friends which makes me feel... weird.

Does your wife have similar levels of attraction to men as you have to women?

Quote:If my female friend gets a boyfriend, sooner or later I will be tossed aside or dubbed relatively unimportant.

That happens with my male friends too.

Quote:If my male friend falls in love with me, (which has an over 90% chance of happening) I will be accused of being a friendzoner because I wouldn't want a romantic relationship.

Luckily that hasn't happened to me all that much. I mean, it has, but it's not the most common problem. Probably because they see me as "one of the guys" in a sense. So that kinda helps, but also kinda doesn't... friends get abandoned when "more important" things like romantic relationships are an option. That makes me sad.

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