RIP School Survival Forums
August 2001 - June 2017

The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

The forums are mostly read-only and are in a maintenance/testing phase, before being permanently archived. Please use this time to get the contact details of people you'd like to keep in touch with. Send me a message if you'd like to keep in touch with me & Steve.

Please do not make a mirror copy of the forums in their current state - things will still change, and some people have requested to be able to edit or delete some of their personal info.


Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Nationalism/Patriotism
Author Message
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #1
Nationalism/Patriotism

What does everybody here think of Nationalism/Patriotism here? I find it ridiculous that a lot of humans still are proud of their country of birth/ethnicity/ancestry, since you didn't get to choose them when you were born. We're all humans who are descended from a small group in Africa like 200,000 years ago, and skin colour/eye colour/etc results from different climates. I heard from somewhere that a male and female of the same "ethnicity" have more differences in their DNA than 2 people of the same gender from a different ethnicity(I don't know where to back this up though).

I find that my US-based friend(his parents and family isn't even from the States, and most of his family doesn't even live in the States) is making a fool out of himself of thinking about overthrowing Australia's government, when he could help this world unite instead of continuing to divide it.

George Carlin Wrote:"I could never understand ethnic or national pride. Because to me, pride should be reserved for something you achieve or attain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth. Being Irish isn't a skill, it’s a fucking genetic accident. You wouldn't say “I’m proud to be 5’11”. I’m proud to have a predisposition for colon cancer.” So why the fuck would you be proud to be Irish, or proud to be Italian, or American or anything?"

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2015 06:26 AM by ComradeDaryl.)
10-05-2015 06:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: Dead , Dikont5
Dead Offline
Goon

Posts: 888
Joined: Mar 2013
Thanks: 61
Given 288 thank(s) in 176 post(s)
Post: #2
Nationalism/Patriotism

"I'm so proud that I crawled out of my mother's vagina while she was in this particular mass of land"
10-05-2015 07:09 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: ComradeDaryl , schoolsux
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #3
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

(10-05-2015 07:09 AM)Dead Wrote:  "I'm so proud that I crawled out of my mother's vagina while she was in this particular mass of land"

Or "I'm so proud that I slithered out of my mother's vagina with this particular skin/eye/hair colour!"

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
10-05-2015 07:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Dead Offline
Goon

Posts: 888
Joined: Mar 2013
Thanks: 61
Given 288 thank(s) in 176 post(s)
Post: #4
Nationalism/Patriotism

Yep, that too.
10-05-2015 07:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: ComradeDaryl
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #5
Nationalism/Patriotism

You are aware nationalism is actually something of a new concept(relative to the progression of human philosophical and ideological development). It really popped up around 19th century and expanded greatly by 20th century(peaking during the period of WW2 with the rise of the ultra-nationalist facists).

You might be surprised to hear that liberalism and enlightenment set the foundation of nationalism,specifically "romantic nationalism" which is basically loving your country and it's cultural traditions. Exemplified in such images:
[Image: 631px-American_progress.JPG]
[Image: french-revolution.jpeg]
[Image: 607px-Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_La_libert%...peuple.jpg]

Realistically it's not about pride of being born in a country. It's pride in SUPPORTING said country. Initially the idea was to place the concept of the nation-state and thus the people of said nation above a single man(often a monarch) and in many cases, on par with God himself(thus kicking the clergy off their pedestal).

Take America for example. There are certainly nationalists who exist who are naturalized Americans(aka immigrants-turned-citizen). Technically speaking, there really isn't anything wrong with that either because technically a citizen is a citizen. I'm sure there'll be some "patriotic" groups who'd refuse them but that's another case.

I'm guessing by his statement, George Carlin doesn't support gay pride? Unless he'd like to imply being homosexual is something one attains or achieves? I'd personally take his statement with a grain of salt because it literally ignores the historic importance of nationalist idealism and the impact it's had(like helping create and maintain a country that lets him say such things oui?)

Then again when you give the uneducated masses an idea that was derived by intellectuals, you're forced to strip most of it's meaning out down to the barebone, and the barebone isn't enough to keep the idea together and free from corruption.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
10-05-2015 01:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #6
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

(10-05-2015 01:51 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  You are aware nationalism is actually something of a new concept(relative to the progression of human philosophical and ideological development). It really popped up around 19th century and expanded greatly by 20th century(peaking during the period of WW2 with the rise of the ultra-nationalist facists).

You might be surprised to hear that liberalism and enlightenment set the foundation of nationalism,specifically "romantic nationalism" which is basically loving your country and it's cultural traditions. Exemplified in such images:
[Image: 631px-American_progress.JPG]
[Image: french-revolution.jpeg]
[Image: 607px-Eug%C3%A8ne_Delacroix_-_La_libert%...peuple.jpg]

Realistically it's not about pride of being born in a country. It's pride in SUPPORTING said country. Initially the idea was to place the concept of the nation-state and thus the people of said nation above a single man(often a monarch) and in many cases, on par with God himself(thus kicking the clergy off their pedestal).

Take America for example. There are certainly nationalists who exist who are naturalized Americans(aka immigrants-turned-citizen). Technically speaking, there really isn't anything wrong with that either because technically a citizen is a citizen. I'm sure there'll be some "patriotic" groups who'd refuse them but that's another case.

I'm guessing by his statement, George Carlin doesn't support gay pride? Unless he'd like to imply being homosexual is something one attains or achieves? I'd personally take his statement with a grain of salt because it literally ignores the historic importance of nationalist idealism and the impact it's had(like helping create and maintain a country that lets him say such things oui?)

Then again when you give the uneducated masses an idea that was derived by intellectuals, you're forced to strip most of it's meaning out down to the barebone, and the barebone isn't enough to keep the idea together and free from corruption.

You should love humanity as a whole, since you didn't choose your ancestry/ethnicity/country of birth at all. We need to unite as a species, you know that. "Pride in Supporting SAID country" still means "Pride in supporting your country of birth/ancestry/ethnicity".

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
(This post was last modified: 10-05-2015 02:25 PM by ComradeDaryl.)
10-05-2015 02:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #7
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

Humanity will never love humanity as a whole. Its too broad a category and too vague an idea. Humans are factional creatures. We want to distinguish and belong to unique identities beyond the mere fact we're human.

Uniting as a species at this pojnt is just utopic nonsense. There is no need or motivation for it. Plus uniting as a species wont change anything. We will still discriminate along lines of wealth, occupation, education, religion, sports teams and so on. It wouldnt be surprising if one of these ended up going far enough to divide humanity once more.

Humanity shouldnt unite. Cooperation works just fine...

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
10-05-2015 10:21 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #8
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

(10-05-2015 10:21 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Humanity will never love humanity as a whole. Its too broad a category and too vague an idea. Humans are factional creatures. We want to distinguish and belong to unique identities beyond the mere fact we're human.

Uniting as a species at this pojnt is just utopic nonsense. There is no need or motivation for it. Plus uniting as a species wont change anything. We will still discriminate along lines of wealth, occupation, education, religion, sports teams and so on. It wouldnt be surprising if one of these ended up going far enough to divide humanity once more.

Humanity shouldnt unite. Cooperation works just fine...

That's BS, sir. In the first tens of thousands of years that we existed, we were barely divided. Are you trying to argue for innate human nature? If we were factional in those tens of thousands of years, we would already be extinct. I believe that humans are social species, and without that, we wouldn't be here.

Also, saying my suggestion is "utopic" nonsense is trying to shut my speech up.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
(This post was last modified: 10-06-2015 02:12 AM by ComradeDaryl.)
10-06-2015 02:09 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #9
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

Barely divided? The first division was tribal, before we even settled to create civilization. The only reason to "like" one another was a mutual interext in survival. Otherwise humans begin to divide based on family/clan loyalty, occupational loyalty, property loyalty, religious loyalty and so on. Just because we werent murdering one another doesnt imply we were united. It just means we had no motivation to kill one another.

Your approach is heavily inaccurate because your equating division with death. No where is it apparent that division means death. A society doesnt have to be genocidal to be divided. It may be more violent if the division is great, but only infrequently can the division be so great to lead to outright massacre.

India has been a caste system for centuries. Religiously and socially enforced division among them. I dont see the priest class murdering everyone beneath them.

Its a fallacy to equate nationalism with death (and nothing more than propaganda likely based off the action of various ultra-nationalist groups in recent history). Pride is an excuse to kill for another reason (often economic in nature). Man only kills for "profit".

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
10-06-2015 03:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #10
Nationalism/Patriotism

I'm Samoan(I live in Apia, the capital and largest city of Samoa), but I don't see as much patriotism/nationalism as the States though, and I've lived in both countries(I was born in Samoa, by the way). I don't want to be proud of my ethnicity/nationality/ancestry, since I didn't get to choose it at all.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2015 12:22 PM by ComradeDaryl.)
10-12-2015 12:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #11
Nationalism/Patriotism

Nationalism generally requires development through strongly held historic traditions and culture as a nationhood, whether as a historic nation or modern one.

Island nations don't seem to have the same degree, probably because the natives had no concept of nationalism being that they were predominantly tribal, or have no "national tradition" to uphold because their history has been predominantly uneventful and limited to a local scale.

Plus nationalism has often been formed through a revolution against the existing government, and this government was generally a monarchical one. If the society had a monarchy and did not revolt against it, they really had no need to establish a new "populist" idea known as "nationhood" to differentiate from the aristocracy and monarch who considered themselves to be what defined the nation(thus citizens were subjects, not citizens).

Meaning in the end, native societies and small nations that maintained a long period of tribalism will not have a need for nationalism because they identify by something else(family, tribe, religion, island etc.) under a single "nation".

And technically one can choose. All it requires is citizenship. Nationalism doesn't usually correlate with nativism, even if the nativists are nationalists. Seeing as nationalism is an identity, and depending on the rules for becoming a citizen, one's ability to adopt the new national identity is simply reliant on the citizenship laws. Im sure one could find a group that isn't some radically nativist nationalist group that wouldn't accept a new citizen.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
10-12-2015 12:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #12
Nationalism/Patriotism

Yes people can technically choose their citizenship, but it's almost never easy.

I don't see myself as a Samoan, ethnically or nationally, I see myself as a human instead. Also, for George Carlin, as far as he speaks out against Nationalism in that piece, he usually never talks about other countries in the vast majority of his other acts. How ironic and hypocritical George Carlin was.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2015 12:51 PM by ComradeDaryl.)
10-26-2015 12:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #13
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

Well there are benefits a citizen gets in said country. Cant hand em like like free candy or pens.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
10-26-2015 02:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #14
Nationalism/Patriotism

The United States and the United Kingdom basically use nationalism like a religion, basically a civil religion.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
11-13-2015 02:59 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #15
Nationalism/Patriotism

No. Every country in the world uses nationalism like a religion...because state-hood is a concept inherent in every existing nation(to a varying degree).

Considering how the US doesn't have an annual parade where we're rolling tanks down a street, we arent exactly that far up in the nationalist euphoria.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
11-13-2015 03:26 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #16
Nationalism/Patriotism

Nativism is freaking stupid, and it's a specific form of nationalism, more like ethnic/ancestral nationalism. I believe that pride based on skin/eye/hair color and/or ancestry is really ridiculous, and if people were to stop being so proud of it, I bet most racism/national chauvinism would be eliminated.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2015 03:33 AM by ComradeDaryl.)
12-03-2015 03:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Username Offline
Drunkard

Posts: 907
Joined: Jul 2013
Thanks: 72
Given 228 thank(s) in 166 post(s)
Post: #17
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

I'll give you props for using chauvinism correctly.
12-03-2015 04:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Alistoriv Offline
Sanity Not Included

Posts: 625
Joined: Nov 2012
Thanks: 203
Given 169 thank(s) in 114 post(s)
Post: #18
Nationalism/Patriotism

left wing nationalism ain't bad

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS
(03-20-2013 05:08 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Stand up with pride and say "No! I will not be a McDonalds employee. I WILL BE A GARBAGE MAN!"

[Image: USVWSwj.png]
12-03-2015 08:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #19
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

(12-03-2015 08:14 AM)Alistoriv Wrote:  left wing nationalism ain't bad

It's just as bad, since it divides the workers and humanity a lot more. Nationalism based on skin/eye/hair color/ancestry, like I said, is really ridiculous, since no one gets to choose their ancestry and skin/eye/hair color.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
12-05-2015 02:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #20
Nationalism/Patriotism

Well you can dye your hair, and they have colored lens.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
12-05-2015 12:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Alistoriv Offline
Sanity Not Included

Posts: 625
Joined: Nov 2012
Thanks: 203
Given 169 thank(s) in 114 post(s)
Post: #21
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

(12-05-2015 02:34 AM)ComradeDaryl Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 08:14 AM)Alistoriv Wrote:  left wing nationalism ain't bad

It's just as bad, since it divides the workers and humanity a lot more. Nationalism based on skin/eye/hair color/ancestry, like I said, is really ridiculous, since no one gets to choose their ancestry and skin/eye/hair color.

>national self determination
>bad
ok

RIP GORE GOROTH
RIP SAINTVICIOUS
(03-20-2013 05:08 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Stand up with pride and say "No! I will not be a McDonalds employee. I WILL BE A GARBAGE MAN!"

[Image: USVWSwj.png]
12-06-2015 08:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #22
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

(12-05-2015 12:25 PM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Well you can dye your hair, and they have colored lens.
But is that easy to find or buy, let alone to apply for most human beings?
(12-06-2015 08:12 AM)Alistoriv Wrote:  
(12-05-2015 02:34 AM)ComradeDaryl Wrote:  
(12-03-2015 08:14 AM)Alistoriv Wrote:  left wing nationalism ain't bad

It's just as bad, since it divides the workers and humanity a lot more. Nationalism based on skin/eye/hair color/ancestry, like I said, is really ridiculous, since no one gets to choose their ancestry and skin/eye/hair color.

>national self determination
>bad
ok


Self determination is good, and I'm not a fan of imperialism either, but nationalism divides the workers/people, especially if it's nationalism based around ancestry and/or eye/hair/skin colour.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
12-07-2015 02:41 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Thanks: 20
Given 1983 thank(s) in 1428 post(s)
Post: #23
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

Ethnic nationalism isn't in vogue. Most forms of nationalism appeal to the traditions of the nation, meaning technically anybody who identifies as being of that nationality and tradition(while also able to obtain a citizenship since some nations don't have it easy) is part of said national identity.

Sure, nationalist sentiments tend to draw in racists and xenophobes but they represent a fringe not the mainstream. So how exactly is there any division? Hell many people dont even put too much weight on nationalism in day-to-day life.(in US at least)

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
[Image: watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme-240x180.png]
Brainiac3397's Mental Health Status Log Wrote:[Image: l0Iy5HKskJO5XD3Wg.gif]
12-07-2015 02:51 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sainika Offline
(Divine Subconsciousness)

Posts: 25
Joined: Jan 2016
Thanks: 0
Given 7 thank(s) in 4 post(s)
Post: #24
Nationalism/Patriotism

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being who you are. It's normal for you to be that way. Let's say you're brown eyed and wanted to be blue eyed. you can't change yourself at all, when it comes to the genetics and physical features correlation. Just be proud of it, because self hate just leads to suicide and depression.

Why be ashamed of something you can't control?
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2016 06:42 PM by Sainika.)
01-31-2016 06:42 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
no Offline
True Scotsman

Posts: 1,238
Joined: Nov 2012
Thanks: 920
Given 474 thank(s) in 299 post(s)
Post: #25
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

Why be proud of something that isn't a choice or an accomplishment?

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
02-01-2016 01:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
 Thanks given by: ComradeDaryl
Dead Offline
Goon

Posts: 888
Joined: Mar 2013
Thanks: 61
Given 288 thank(s) in 176 post(s)
Post: #26
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2016 04:50 AM by Dead.)
02-01-2016 02:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ComradeDaryl Offline
School makes you stupid

Posts: 215
Joined: May 2015
Thanks: 179
Given 29 thank(s) in 20 post(s)
Post: #27
RE: Nationalism/Patriotism

(01-31-2016 06:42 PM)Marsayate Wrote:  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being who you are. It's normal for you to be that way. Let's say you're brown eyed and wanted to be blue eyed. you can't change yourself at all, when it comes to the genetics and physical features correlation. Just be proud of it, because self hate just leads to suicide and depression.

Why be ashamed of something you can't control?

(02-01-2016 01:36 AM)no Wrote:  Why be proud of something that isn't a choice or an accomplishment?


Better yet, why care about something you can't change? We should all see each other as human beings, instead of whatever nationality/ethnicity/skin colour at all. I bet most racism/national chauvinism would stop if they started viewing themselves as human beings and not as different ethnic groups/etc.

Just because we're not proud of what we can't change doesn't mean we are self-hating ourselves. We just don't give a shit about it, and view ourselves more as humans more than anything. It's better to be apathetic towards something we can't change, and the inescapable truth, is that we all belong to the same species.

http://telekommunisten.net/the-telekommunist-manifesto/
The telekommunist manifesto
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/
Anarchist archives
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
The Right to Be Lazy, Paul Lafargue(An early marxist).
02-01-2016 04:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  SmoothTerrorist on nuclear war, anarchy and nationalism iexist 0 1,050 08-21-2012 11:16 PM
Last Post: iexist
  Patriotism Faby 19 2,890 11-24-2009 07:52 AM
Last Post: IllusoryDeath
  Nationalism; Debate R00t 21 2,008 12-04-2006 12:41 PM
Last Post: Guest
  Nationalism Guest 41 3,522 11-30-2006 06:07 AM
Last Post: Guest

Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | School Survival | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication