American genoicde in Guatemala

[James Comey]

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Guatemala is a small nation located in Central America, southeast of Mexico, in between the Tropic of Cancer and the Equator. Guatemala is famous for being home to many famous Mayan civilizations and sites, and to this day, a large majority of the population is of indigenous Mayan descent. It is one of the few countries where the original American indigenous language is still widely used, the only other examples would be Quechua in Bolivia/Peru as well as Guarani in Paraguay.

In 1950, Guatemala held an election to see who would run a nation that had traditionally been one of the poorest and most underdeveloped in the Western hemisphere; the country's sociopolitical system was so unstable, that it has actually been seen as the model "banana republic". That year, Jacobo Arbenz Guzman, who ran for a political party bloc made up of various center-left parties (not definitively socialist, although definitely not communist), won the election, won 65.44% of the vote.

Despite Arbenz coming from an upper class background, whose parents were rich Europeans who were benefiting from the previous oligarchy itself, Arbenz saw the plight of the poor indigenous population, and knew the benefit of nationalizing the land, and giving it to these poor peasants. Arbenz's radical policies stripped all power from the United Fruit Company, who gripped the country with policies quite comparable to those of feudalism in Europe before the Black Death. Arbenz's policies were never intended to socialize the country, or show allegiance to the Soviet Union. In fact, the parties that Arbenz had supported were ironically anti-communist, and more or less were favorable of capitalism (albeit local entrepreneurship instead of a foreign conglomerate).

The United Fruit Company decided to screw Guatemala over, and convinced the US government that the Guatemalan government was somehow, communist, and pro-Soviet. American media was to depict Arbenz as a leader who was somehow sympathetic to the Soviet Union, and a direct danger to the American way of life. In reality, this was complete bullshit, since Arbenz was actually anti-communist, and the real motivation for attempting any coup was to protect profit. Power was quickly handed over to the Guatemalan Army, who in turn supported United Fruit, and ruled Guatemala with an iron fist. What would begin would be a series of power struggles, massacres, ethnic cleansings, and systematic oppression in Guatemala, that has somehow been forgotten, and even excused.

Throughout the 60s, 70s, and 80s, the American-back Guatemalan government was notorious for "disappearances"; these disappearances were arrests of various activists and students, who were simply fighting to have democracy in their country. These tactics were backed by the CIA, and the Guatemalan police and army were trained by the United States. Between 1966 and 1968, for example, up to 8,000+ peasants and farmers were killed by the army. During the 1970s, the Guatemalan government coordinated various death squads to organize executions and cause mass hysteria among the people, to prevent any kind of revolution from occurring. Perhaps more than 50 people were killed on a daily basis throughout the 1980s.

In the end, more than 200,000 people were killed by a US-backed government in Guatemala when the war ended in 1996. Most were killed by government forces. In 2015, Guatemala is rife with street gang violence, emigration, drug violence, corruption, hunger, and severe underdevelopment. All because we wanted to protect our bananas.

Hidden stuff:

The US and the West is full of shit.

[thewake]

>US and West is full of shit
>US and other capitalst, dveloped nations are the only places a sane person would choose to live

[James Comey]

Lol did you actually read my post lol?

[brainiac3397]

US rescued South America. You is wrong. Jesus told us so.

Bush would like a word with you.

[ComradeDaryl]

(06-10-2015 08:50 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  US rescued South America. You is wrong. Jesus told us so.

Bush would like a word with you.

Oh look, a fascist supporter of AmeriKKKa/U$A and the United KKKingdom/UKKK.

Also, Lolberals, DemoKKKrats, KKKonservatives, and RepubliKKKans(United SnaKKKes), and the "KKKonservative and Unionist" Party, and the Labour Party (United KKKingdom) alike won't talk about this for the most part, unless they have a candidate who supports a non-mainstream political party.

[Missile]

implying that other countries are perfect angels

[thewake]

Pinochet saved chile

[MurkScribe]

god damm it America

[brainiac3397]

(06-11-2015 05:48 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  Pinochet saved chile

Che y Castro saved Kooba

But who saved Hispaniola?

[ComradeDaryl]

(06-11-2015 03:58 AM)Missile Wrote:  implying that other countries are perfect angels

As much as I don't support any country on this planet, the United SnaKKKes, the United KKKingdom, and Ru$$ia have got to be the worst in Imperialism.

(06-11-2015 05:48 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  Pinochet saved chile

Yes, with the help of AmeriKKKa's CIA and the UKKK's MI6. He also killed thousands and exiled tens of thousands more.

(06-11-2015 08:36 AM)MurkScribe Wrote:  god damm it America

You forget the United KKKingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, France, Japan, and Russia/Soviet Union, the other imperialist powers of the world.

(06-11-2015 10:41 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  

(06-11-2015 05:48 AM)Weswammy Wrote:  Pinochet saved chile

Che y Castro saved Kooba

But who saved Hispaniola?

State-Capitalist Cuba is a lot better than Mexico, Haiti, Brazil, and Central America in many ways.

[James Comey]

My main point here is that I'm pretty much tired of the United States' holier-than-art-thou attitude when it comes to the world. The US pretty much has this mentality that it has a right to determine what is right and wrong in this world that it completely goes against basic morality. Of course, Russia will get sanctioned for its geopolitical moves, and its civilians must suffer the consequences, but the United States gets to do what it wants, because American exceptionalism. It's all bullshit, and Guatemala is pretty much the reason I don't take US foreign policy seriously in any way.

@ComradeDaryl - I'm glad that you're not blind to the destruction that the West has brought to the world. However, you make Cuba to be this amazing country. Mexico and Brazil suffer from widespread violence and corruption, but at the very least, these countries have a degree of civil liberties, and have infrastructure that is much, much better than Cuba. Uruguay pretty much laughs at Cuba. I'm not saying any country is perfect; Cuba is a lot more developed than many other nations, but you're comparing apples and oranges.

@Weswammy - Pinochet killed thousands of people... most of their economic reforms really go to the democratically elected government that took over after (with no US interference), and even then, Chile has a lot of inequality.

[Username]

I can blame all of this on Hitler and have it be relatively coherent.

[James Comey]

You don't even bring up a proper point. I have actually provided evidence that the United States was actively funding and supporting a genocide, and not only that, but they continue to sweep it under the rug, and it is denied within the country.

[Username]

(06-15-2015 04:38 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  You don't even bring up a proper point. I have actually provided evidence that the United States was actively funding and supporting a genocide, and not only that, but they continue to sweep it under the rug, and it is denied within the country.

I did bring up a point and I can explain the USA's shit foreign policies with Hitler.

[brainiac3397]

Quote:My main point here is that I'm pretty much tired of the United States' holier-than-art-thou attitude when it comes to the world. The US pretty much has this mentality that it has a right to determine what is right and wrong in this world that it completely goes against basic morality. Of course, Russia will get sanctioned for its geopolitical moves, and its civilians must suffer the consequences, but the United States gets to do what it wants, because American exceptionalism. It's all bullshit, and Guatemala is pretty much the reason I don't take US foreign policy seriously in any way.

All superpowers have deemed it their right to decide how to define right and wrong, whether they be political, scientific, or religious(isn't it interesting that social morality is basically defined by Judeo-Christian standards?)

Plus US foreign policy is complex in the sense that A)sometimes it doesn't even exist, B)it exists but it's bad policy, C)It's average policy but new administration leaves a mark to make it their own, or D)It works and nobody is stupid enough to mess with it.

Quote:@ComradeDaryl - I'm glad that you're not blind to the destruction that the West has brought to the world. However, you make Cuba to be this amazing country. Mexico and Brazil suffer from widespread violence and corruption, but at the very least, these countries have a degree of civil liberties, and have infrastructure that is much, much better than Cuba. Uruguay pretty much laughs at Cuba. I'm not saying any country is perfect; Cuba is a lot more developed than many other nations, but you're comparing apples and oranges.

What held Cuba together was the generous financial support of the USSR. Once the USSR collapsed, Cuba suffered economic downturn without A)a business partner that they could comfortably work with and B)free money for being communist and so close to the USA. That said, most of Latin America is a shithole either economically or socially...and when you're an economic shithole, you're bound to be a social shithole.

Brazil has had some improvements, so I'd call em one of the stable ones in the region. In fact my understanding is that they're a local power down there. Mexico is US latrine. When drug dealers can actually take and control territory, assassinate multiple politicians, and corrupt the government with bribes and threats, it's obviously a crappy place regardless of how many civil liberties it gives.

IMO the only reason Mexico hasn't collapsed into a worse state is because of US assistance thanks to A)national security risk if a border nation dissolves into chaos and B)enough influence of Mexicans in the US to urge the government to aid Mexico(either through lobbying powers or the fact you've got US politicians of Mexican descent "protecting" their motherland...whether it's cause it's their ancestral land or because it helps them get votes)

Quote:@Weswammy - Pinochet killed thousands of people... most of their economic reforms really go to the democratically elected government that took over after (with no US interference), and even then, Chile has a lot of inequality.

Should be mentioned that the economic reforms came from the "Chicago Boys" who began their work while Pinochet was in power, and these reforms continued onward till his removal, and continued on afterwards. It was a CIA/US backed neoliberal reform experiment.

And the inequality is thanks to their work.

Thus democratic reforms had little to do with economic reform, especially since Pinochet(a puppet of the US) was the one who opened the door to extensive pro-capitalist ideas that were previously considered to be on the economic fringe in a generally socialist-leaning country.

[James Comey]

(06-15-2015 06:23 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  All superpowers have deemed it their right to decide how to define right and wrong, whether they be political, scientific, or religious(isn't it interesting that social morality is basically defined by Judeo-Christian standards?)

Plus US foreign policy is complex in the sense that A)sometimes it doesn't even exist, B)it exists but it's bad policy, C)It's average policy but new administration leaves a mark to make it their own, or D)It works and nobody is stupid enough to mess with it.

Killing people = bad
Bad = punishment

Not exactly restricted to Judaeo-Christian values, is it?

Of course, foreign policy isn't black and white like that... but I still don't understand that the United States basically is given this right to kill people as it pleases, whereas if other countries do it, there will be cries of infringing another country's sovereignty, etc, which is complete fucking bullshit when put into larger perspective.

Quote:What held Cuba together was the generous financial support of the USSR. Once the USSR collapsed, Cuba suffered economic downturn without A)a business partner that they could comfortably work with and B)free money for being communist and so close to the USA. That said, most of Latin America is a shithole either economically or socially...and when you're an economic shithole, you're bound to be a social shithole.

Brazil has had some improvements, so I'd call em one of the stable ones in the region. In fact my understanding is that they're a local power down there. Mexico is US latrine. When drug dealers can actually take and control territory, assassinate multiple politicians, and corrupt the government with bribes and threats, it's obviously a crappy place regardless of how many civil liberties it gives.

IMO the only reason Mexico hasn't collapsed into a worse state is because of US assistance thanks to A)national security risk if a border nation dissolves into chaos and B)enough influence of Mexicans in the US to urge the government to aid Mexico(either through lobbying powers or the fact you've got US politicians of Mexican descent "protecting" their motherland...whether it's cause it's their ancestral land or because it helps them get votes)

Never said any of those countries were great. Part of Mexico's entire catastrophe is partly because of Operation Fast & Furious [yeah, it's a fucking paradox], and honestly bullshit moralistic views on drugs. Honsetly I hope one day governments just start selling that shit themselves. Hey, if they're going to kill people, they might as well be honest about it. (Also, Brazilian gangs pretty much control large swathes of urban neighborhoods, not to mention that country turned into a gigantic 1992 Los Angeles in 13-14, so...)

[brainiac3397]

(06-15-2015 09:24 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote:  

(06-15-2015 06:23 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  All superpowers have deemed it their right to decide how to define right and wrong, whether they be political, scientific, or religious(isn't it interesting that social morality is basically defined by Judeo-Christian standards?)

Plus US foreign policy is complex in the sense that A)sometimes it doesn't even exist, B)it exists but it's bad policy, C)It's average policy but new administration leaves a mark to make it their own, or D)It works and nobody is stupid enough to mess with it.

Killing people = bad
Bad = punishment

Not exactly restricted to Judaeo-Christian values, is it?

Of course, foreign policy isn't black and white like that... but I still don't understand that the United States basically is given this right to kill people as it pleases, whereas if other countries do it, there will be cries of infringing another country's sovereignty, etc, which is complete fucking bullshit when put into larger perspective.

No but I'm not just talking about killing people.

No. It's not bullshit. It's power. The big fish eats the most fish. It may be wrong, bad, evil, despicable etc. etc. but that's just how it's been working. It may change, or it may not, but at this point in time, any country to take on the same global power role the US has would highly likely resort to the same tactics.

In a larger perspective, the USA has the louder voice, and a bigger stick to back it up.