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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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Do I need formal education to live a comfortable life or survive?
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MurkScribe Offline
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Post: #1
Do I need formal education to live a comfortable life or survive?

I need statistics and others people experience and accounts from how they did without formal schooling. Also there's some dogmas the protect the oppressive school system like:

. Doing away from formal education or the expected path in life will lead to suffering and horrid in your life.

. School can only provide education.

Some other stuff as well cant explain.

MurkScribe's Mental Health Status:
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02-23-2015 10:14 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #2
Do I need formal education to live a comfortable life or survive?

One account that's worth reading: Nick Perez: Dropping Out Was a Great Idea

There are many other accounts of those who dropped out and found success.

Joi Ito is one example; he didn't learn well in school, and dropped out of college, but he's now director of MIT's Media Lab (article.)

Kio Stark is another; she's a grad school dropout who teaches grad school classes at NYU, and she wrote and crowdfunded a book called Don't Go Back to School: A Handbook for Learning Anything. There's a good review of the book here: Don’t Go Back to School: Book Review. "The book centers on interviews with successful individuals who achieved success without following traditional paths."

Another angle is, even going through the system isn't a guarantee anymore.

53% of Recent College Grads Are Jobless or Underemployed—How?

These statistics stand in contrast to the overall stats that schools often show, which indicate that a diploma and a degree lead to higher lifespan earners on average. But those don't take into account the changing economy and the reality for this in school now. And, they fail to reference other paths to success. Of course, there are people who drop out and don't do much with their life, and they're likely to have low income. But that's not the only path.

And, not to mention... lifespan earnings isn't the be-all and end-all of having a good life.

On that topic... Jonathan Fields has done dozens of interviews with people who are living interesting lives with his Good Life Project series. Many of them are critical of school in various ways, and if you explore the interviews, I'm not sure there's a single mention of school being the path to success, even though many of them did go through school.

This video shows the variety of ways some of them defined "a good life" -- obviously it's not the same for everyone.



Watch on YouTube

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

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02-23-2015 12:39 PM
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Missile Offline
с гордостью девственница

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Post: #3
RE: Do I need formal education to live a comfortable life or survive?

In countries with required conscription, you probably COULD live without formal schooling quite fine, but we are talking about American schools aren't we?

Wake up people, and look at life around you
http://debunking911.com/?no_redirect=true

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02-23-2015 12:42 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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Do I need formal education to live a comfortable life or survive?

If you're dedicated to learning, and making the most of life, and connecting with others... there are so many paths beyond traditional formal education. And you can get the same basic benefits of formal education outside of it.

Blake Boles is one person to look into when it comes to alternative education. He's written a number of books on the topic, including College Without High School and Better Than College.

Here, he gives some ideas of what you could do with $20,000 instead of spending it on college:



Watch on YouTube

That said, the way things work today, you can go to cheaper colleges and get PELL grants and other financial aid, so going to college doesn't have to cost a fortune, and can even be free in some cases. But, the most flexible colleges tend to have higher tuition, and be more selective... though in some cases it may be worth applying and seeing what aid you can get.

Bard College at Simon's Rock accepts students younger than traditional college age, regardless of high school. But, it's not cheap (almost $200k for 4-year tuition!), even though they say 80% of students get some form of financial aid.

Goddard College is one I've thought about, myself. They offer a very flexible program, including a "low-residency" one where you do most of your learning on your own, not on a campus. Their tuition for a 4-year degree is around $60k, total, before financial aid, so depending on possible aid, like $30k in PELL grants and maybe some others, it could be somewhat affordable.

"First semester students are pre-assigned an advisor; after that, you participate in choosing your faculty advisor each semester. At residency, you meet with your advisors and peers and attend mini courses and workshops on subjects such as critical writing, critical thinking, library and research skills, oral history techniques, interviewing, and so on."

But still, tuition adds up. This is one reason it may be worth considering paying smaller amounts to personal learning guides and facilitators, rather than tens of thousands of dollars to an institution.

If you haven't seen the trailer for Ivory Tower (2014), it's worth watching... I haven't seen the whole film yet, but I plan to. It shows how much disruption there is in higher ed, especially in an age where people are saying everyone should have college-level education, but the traditional paths through college aren't working for a lot of people, and the content and opportunities can be pursued in other ways.



Watch on YouTube

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
02-23-2015 01:01 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #5
Do I need formal education to live a comfortable life or survive?

Isabelle Rizo is another person who questioned college and took a different path. Her documentary, The BellaVie Project, is about her experience and those of others.

Here's a 10-minute version... there's a longer 30-minute rough edit, too.



Watch on YouTube

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


School Survival & Catalyst Learning Network featured on AlternativestoSchool's blog
“Mom, Dad, can I stop going to school?”

Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High

Hidden stuff:
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2015 01:09 PM by xcriteria.)
02-23-2015 01:03 PM
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