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The ultimate thread for feminism
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MurkScribe Away
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Post: #1
The ultimate thread for feminism

Since there's alot of discussion and thoughts about feminism in the web chat lately
http://www.school-survival.net/webchat.php

I might as well make a thread where we could make a nice productive, meaningful discussion on this topic. And totally not a bigoted hateful massacre of people


Please don't kill each other

Thank you Senpai :3

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01-13-2015 12:48 PM
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

ehhh
01-14-2015 01:26 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

Oh discriminate against us nonchatters eh!

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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01-14-2015 05:12 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #4
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-13-2015 12:48 PM)MurkScribe Wrote:  I might as well make a thread where we could make a nice productive, meaningful discussion on this topic. And totally not a bigoted hateful massacre of people

That'd be nice. Btw, people, if you think someone is making an error in their thinking, or making a poor argument, why not discuss that, calmly, rather than attacking people?

The thing is, we can all learn. Since school sucks at facilitating that, and parents often expect school to manage learning, maybe we could help each other learn, instead? Smile

(01-14-2015 05:12 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Oh discriminate against us nonchatters eh!

You're a chatter, too. Razz

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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

We'll I haven't been on chat a long time seeing as I'm on the road. So enlighten me on what I've missed?

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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01-15-2015 01:24 AM
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

This is a very touchy subject and I'm going to play devils advocate here, but I'll give it a go!

Honestly, I just can't wrap my head around feminism.
Really, what's the goal there?
In the past, it was so women could get jobs so they could be free(ironic, I know) and have the same liberties as males like the vote, but those objectives have obviously changed since the 1960s.
Is the goal equality or supremacy? If it's the former then, we, as men, are at a bit of a disadvantage. From unjust jail sentences between genders, ridiculous divorce settlements and double standards, how can we still say that feminism is still necessary during this day and age. The genders are as equal as they could ever be, I fail to understand what the problem is.

A lot of the arguments from opposing sides of the argument that I have heard are debunked myths such as the gender wage gap among many others.

If the goal of this questionable "movement" is to fight the overall attitude of women among the very rare breed of the hardcore sexist/misogynist, or however you wish to call it, being a radical feminist isn't going to change the opinions of those men. In fact, it's going to be detrimental to the males that hold a middle ground when it comes to genders and make them go in the opposite direction entirely.

I also have a problem with rape. I'm not denying that it doesn't exist, but I believe that the amount of it that's committed, is blown out of proportion. Rape isn't that odorful old fellow in the bus trying to chat you up, and it certainly isn't someone catcalling you. Rape is the only crime that requires the accuser's word to lock the accused into prison, which goes against every highly held moral a decent human being would stand for.
In my language, we have the perfect saying for this: "Usalda, aga kontrolli."
The basic gist of it is, that you should trust what you're told and take it at face value, but always remember to check, in case it's complete bullshit, y'see!
I also despise and loathe the word, "rape culture", it makes me mad... which brings me to my next point.

Masculinity being perceived as toxic should not be a popular opinion! It's what females are attracted to, our masculinity.
Our aggression, manliness. Women are submissive, they want a guy that will lead and they can follow.
As the saying goes: "She's already got a pussy. She doesn't want another one."
This is why I am disappointed whenever I see a, god forbid, male feminist. I don't know, why they think that the above mentioned quote is particularly false, or why some of them think masculinity is "toxic" and/or consider having a dick "disgusting", I really don't know for certain.
My theory is that they have given up on trying to compete with the top men that the average gal desires and have retreated to a standstill or point of view, where they truly believe "kissing ass" will get them anywhere with women, or life as a whole.

IN CONCLUUUUSIOOOON:
Stop fucking screwing each others genders over, don't be a fucking cunt and most of all, don't get anyone put in prison because of bullshit reasons.

Tell me if your eyes didn't start bleeding while reading that, I'd appreciate it.
(didn't proofread, lel)
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2015 03:09 AM by Username.)
01-15-2015 02:36 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

Feminism is like affirmative action,honorable ideals but attempts to employ them by fucking over the other side(minority vs white, women vs man)

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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The ultimate thread for feminism

I believe third-wave feminism is simply bad. It's a movement that denies fact after fact, makes up shit (did you know? if you are actually getting lower pay than the male employees, you can sue?) and just wants to make men their enemies.

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01-16-2015 10:20 AM
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Missile Offline
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Post: #9
The ultimate thread for feminism

[Image: image_zps33b7ad96.jpg]

Wake up people, and look at life around you
http://debunking911.com/?no_redirect=true

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01-16-2015 10:46 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

As devils advocate, I shall make tasteless and excruciatingly sexist male remark of "Feminism is the official concept for what has been known for centuries as 'bitching'"

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-16-2015 10:20 AM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  (did you know? if you are actually getting lower pay than the male employees, you can sue?)
Not provable in general if you're working somewhere you had to negotiate your salary (i.e., basically anything remotely resembling a middle-class job, excepting some kinds of civil servants).

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01-17-2015 10:53 AM
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Post: #12
The ultimate thread for feminism

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01-17-2015 12:01 PM
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Missile Offline
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-17-2015 12:01 PM)MurkScribe Wrote:  [Image: image_zps33b7ad96.jpg.html]

Use photobucket
It's more reliable (the picture is showing up as code)

Wake up people, and look at life around you
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01-17-2015 12:57 PM
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KFC Nyan Cat Away
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-17-2015 10:53 AM)magikarp Wrote:  
(01-16-2015 10:20 AM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  (did you know? if you are actually getting lower pay than the male employees, you can sue?)
Not provable in general if you're working somewhere you had to negotiate your salary (i.e., basically anything remotely resembling a middle-class job, excepting some kinds of civil servants).

If you got to negotiate your salary, you should have negotiated more aggressively! Also, unless you are getting lower pay BECAUSE you are female, you have no reason to complain.

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01-17-2015 02:18 PM
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Post: #15
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

Quote:Women are submissive, they want a guy that will lead and they can follow.

I agreed with most of what you said, but not you are leaning too much in the opposite, 1960s style mentality with this.

This simply isn't provable.

It is important to remember that human cultures vary wildly when it comes to the roles of men and women.

Third wave feminism is toxic. It is far removed from the true equality seeking early feminism. Now it's all about feelings and being inconsistent and angry, so I am not a feminist (prefer egalitarian).

A lot of it has to do with how a child is raised. Girls, in our culture, were generally raised to be submissive and wait for a man to come for them. How many fathers tell their daughters to go seek guys out, go get a guys? Not many. Most tell their daughters to avoid men, where as sons are told to seek women. Thus we have people who think females are inherently submissive and want a man to tell them what to do.

I am not denying this is not true, however most research has been based off our (yes I will say it) historically patriarchal society. So making the assumption that it is innate is jumping the gun.

Remember there is a difference between being a pushover for women and being confident and yourself and being aggressive and taking charge aggressively. Women like the middle, a guy who treats them as an equal, not as less and not as some pure being. Same goes for all people, men, children, etc. Barring individual differences I suppose.

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01-22-2015 03:02 PM
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-15-2015 02:36 AM)Username Wrote:  This is a very touchy subject and I'm going to play devils advocate here, but I'll give it a go!

Honestly, I just can't wrap my head around feminism.
Really, what's the goal there?
In the past, it was so women could get jobs so they could be free(ironic, I know) and have the same liberties as males like the vote, but those objectives have obviously changed since the 1960s.
Is the goal equality or supremacy? If it's the former then, we, as men, are at a bit of a disadvantage. From unjust jail sentences between genders, ridiculous divorce settlements and double standards, how can we still say that feminism is still necessary during this day and age. The genders are as equal as they could ever be, I fail to understand what the problem is.

The problem is well, I'll let you be an example of it throughout this. But firstly, you aren't the devil's advocate, don't pretend you're the minority, the majority of people are like "yeah the sexes are equal now because of legal equality" while ignoring social inequalities, and ignoring that feminism really doesn't care about sex, but rather about masculinity and femininity, but whatever.

Quote:A lot of the arguments from opposing sides of the argument that I have heard are debunked myths such as the gender wage gap among many others.

So, while I do agree with a lot of this link, let's actually examine some information here. Firstly, the wage gap, if we're talking about "equal work for equal pay" is about 96-99% depending on what estimate you get. That's still a wage gap, it's not "debunked" it's just true. Secondly, let's examine the importance of the 74% number many feminists use. This is a number that compares the money all women make, vs. the money men make, per capita. This means that women probably aren't allowed to advance as much in the workplace, and aren't encouraged to enter high paying jobs. That is in fact a problem, and an example of sexism within our culture. The fourth myth "debunking" also has some hilarious casual misogyny just mixed in "herp derp overly broad definition, forced kissing isn't sexual assault" yes, yes it is sexual assault, I'm sorry but that's just a fact.

Quote:If the goal of this questionable "movement" is to fight the overall attitude of women among the very rare breed of the hardcore sexist/misogynist, or however you wish to call it, being a radical feminist isn't going to change the opinions of those men. In fact, it's going to be detrimental to the males that hold a middle ground when it comes to genders and make them go in the opposite direction entirely.

No, it's to expose casual misogyny within our culture, and the fact that we value masculinity more than femininity within our culture. Which is made apparent within your post. Most of those "moderates" are people hearing people say "please, this shit that's happening that's really bad shouldn't be happening" and they just go "meh, rape happening at the rates it does and going unreported is fine, so is the sexism in our society" that is NOT moderate. That is a passive bystander watching an atrocity happen and not even saying it's messed up.

Quote:I also have a problem with rape. I'm not denying that it doesn't exist, but I believe that the amount of it that's committed, is blown out of proportion. Rape isn't that odorful old fellow in the bus trying to chat you up, and it certainly isn't someone catcalling you. Rape is the only crime that requires the accuser's word to lock the accused into prison, which goes against every highly held moral a decent human being would stand for.
In my language, we have the perfect saying for this: "Usalda, aga kontrolli."
The basic gist of it is, that you should trust what you're told and take it at face value, but always remember to check, in case it's complete bullshit, y'see!

This isn't entirely true. You usually need some form of DNA evidence to ever prove rape, and some physical damage, and even then it's by far the least prosecuted crime in the US. This is simply because it's so hard to prove it.

Quote:I also despise and loathe the word, "rape culture", it makes me mad... which brings me to my next point.

So you're mad that people point out you justifying rape? Sucks to be you.

Quote:Masculinity being perceived as toxic should not be a popular opinion! It's what females are attracted to, our masculinity.
Our aggression, manliness. Women are submissive, they want a guy that will lead and they can follow.
As the saying goes: "She's already got a pussy. She doesn't want another one."

And this is where you expose just how casually misogynist you are, sad thing is this statement isn't vehemently attacked. Some women like feminine men, some men like masculine women. Also, not all masculinity isn't toxic, but a lot of it is, and it just isn't pointed out because it's part of the dominant culture.

Quote:This is why I am disappointed whenever I see a, god forbid, male feminist. I don't know, why they think that the above mentioned quote is particularly false, or why some of them think masculinity is "toxic" and/or consider having a dick "disgusting", I really don't know for certain.
My theory is that they have given up on trying to compete with the top men that the average gal desires and have retreated to a standstill or point of view, where they truly believe "kissing ass" will get them anywhere with women, or life as a whole.

Having a dick isn't disgusting, I love my penis, I just don't consider it a reason for me to be privileged. But ehh, to be honest being a feminist has lost me more girls than it's gotten me, so clearly I'm not doing it to get laid.

Quote:IN CONCLUUUUSIOOOON:
Stop fucking screwing each others genders over, don't be a fucking cunt and most of all, don't get anyone put in prison because of bullshit reasons.

Tell me if your eyes didn't start bleeding while reading that, I'd appreciate it.
(didn't proofread, lel)

Nobody's screwing over your gender, they're merely pointing out that you're privileged, and that there is an oppressed gender.
01-23-2015 04:19 AM
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Missile Offline
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Post: #17
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

The wage gap would make sense
If every man and woman worked the same job, the same hours, and had the exact same degrees

Wake up people, and look at life around you
http://debunking911.com/?no_redirect=true

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01-23-2015 05:19 AM
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-23-2015 05:19 AM)Missile Wrote:  The wage gap would make sense
If every man and woman worked the same job, the same hours, and had the exact same degrees

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For anyone who remembers me going on an archive binge: Thank you all. I know I ended it being a drama queen, I don't really agree with the ideology anymore, and I'm really not the same person I was (I went through a neopagan phase!) but still this site was the first online community I was in. I graduated from school and turned 18. Time flies. KFC Nyan Cat, June 20, 2019.
01-23-2015 09:47 AM
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Post: #19
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-22-2015 03:02 PM)UnschoolShqiponjë Wrote:  post

You're back?! Wow... In any case, welcome back! Biggrin

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01-24-2015 02:15 PM
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RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-23-2015 04:19 AM)greatpower2 Wrote:  Nobody's screwing over your gender, they're merely pointing out that you're privileged, and that there is an oppressed gender.

First-world women aren't oppressed, first-world blacks aren't oppressed, the only people who are truly oppressed in first-world countries are poor people.

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For anyone who remembers me going on an archive binge: Thank you all. I know I ended it being a drama queen, I don't really agree with the ideology anymore, and I'm really not the same person I was (I went through a neopagan phase!) but still this site was the first online community I was in. I graduated from school and turned 18. Time flies. KFC Nyan Cat, June 20, 2019.
01-24-2015 02:19 PM
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Post: #21
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

... who are disproportionately black.

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
01-25-2015 02:47 AM
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Post: #22
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-25-2015 02:47 AM)no Wrote:  ... who are disproportionately black.

Because of racism that happened before my mom was born. Look, it's hard for families in poverty to get out of poverty, and the reason blacks are in poverty is because slavery and then Jim Crow Laws happened, which made it hard for blacks to move up. It will take many more generations for blacks to move up, and we should not blame your everyday white people, because regular white people didn't have control over it, the politicians that approved of racist laws did.

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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" - Donald Rumsfeld

For anyone who remembers me going on an archive binge: Thank you all. I know I ended it being a drama queen, I don't really agree with the ideology anymore, and I'm really not the same person I was (I went through a neopagan phase!) but still this site was the first online community I was in. I graduated from school and turned 18. Time flies. KFC Nyan Cat, June 20, 2019.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2015 09:54 AM by KFC Nyan Cat.)
01-27-2015 09:44 AM
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no Offline
True Scotsman

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Post: #23
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

The groups you mentioned overlap, though. /nitpick

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
01-27-2015 11:02 AM
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MurkScribe Away
Revolutionary

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Post: #24
The ultimate thread for feminism

Quote:I agreed with most of what you said, but not you are leaning too much in the opposite, 1960s style mentality with this.

This simply isn't provable.

It is important to remember that human cultures vary wildly when it comes to the roles of men and women.

Third wave feminism is toxic. It is far removed from the true equality seeking early feminism. Now it's all about feelings and being inconsistent and angry, so I am not a feminist (prefer egalitarian).

A lot of it has to do with how a child is raised. Girls, in our culture, were generally raised to be submissive and wait for a man to come for them. How many fathers tell their daughters to go seek guys out, go get a guys? Not many. Most tell their daughters to avoid men, where as sons are told to seek women. Thus we have people who think females are inherently submissive and want a man to tell them what to do.

I am not denying this is not true, however most research has been based off our (yes I will say it) historically patriarchal society. So making the assumption that it is innate is jumping the gun.

Remember there is a difference between being a pushover for women and being confident and yourself and being aggressive and taking charge aggressively. Women like the middle, a guy who treats them as an equal, not as less and not as some pure being. Same goes for all people, men, children, etc. Barring individual differences I suppose.

Wait a second, I though the purpose of feminism was to create an egalitarian gender society.

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01-28-2015 12:01 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
Machiavellian Amoeba

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Post: #25
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

Nope. Its purpose was to call you sexist for holding a door open for a woman, but then call you rude for not holding the door.

Personality DNA Report
(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

Hidden stuff:
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01-28-2015 03:53 AM
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Missile Offline
с гордостью девственница

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Post: #26
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-28-2015 12:01 AM)MurkScribe Wrote:  
Quote:I agreed with most of what you said, but not you are leaning too much in the opposite, 1960s style mentality with this.

This simply isn't provable.

It is important to remember that human cultures vary wildly when it comes to the roles of men and women.

Third wave feminism is toxic. It is far removed from the true equality seeking early feminism. Now it's all about feelings and being inconsistent and angry, so I am not a feminist (prefer egalitarian).

A lot of it has to do with how a child is raised. Girls, in our culture, were generally raised to be submissive and wait for a man to come for them. How many fathers tell their daughters to go seek guys out, go get a guys? Not many. Most tell their daughters to avoid men, where as sons are told to seek women. Thus we have people who think females are inherently submissive and want a man to tell them what to do.

I am not denying this is not true, however most research has been based off our (yes I will say it) historically patriarchal society. So making the assumption that it is innate is jumping the gun.

Remember there is a difference between being a pushover for women and being confident and yourself and being aggressive and taking charge aggressively. Women like the middle, a guy who treats them as an equal, not as less and not as some pure being. Same goes for all people, men, children, etc. Barring individual differences I suppose.

Wait a second, I though the purpose of feminism was to create an egalitarian gender society.

If this was the 70s, that would be true

Wake up people, and look at life around you
http://debunking911.com/?no_redirect=true

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01-28-2015 06:43 AM
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KFC Nyan Cat Away
suck 360 blazeit hooks

Posts: 1,034
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Post: #27
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-27-2015 11:02 AM)no Wrote:  The groups you mentioned overlap, though. /nitpick

Yeah, less than 0.1% of white people had political power.

City YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/kfcnyancat
City Tumblr: http://kfcnyancat.tumblr.com (no longer operational due to personal issues)

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" - Donald Rumsfeld

For anyone who remembers me going on an archive binge: Thank you all. I know I ended it being a drama queen, I don't really agree with the ideology anymore, and I'm really not the same person I was (I went through a neopagan phase!) but still this site was the first online community I was in. I graduated from school and turned 18. Time flies. KFC Nyan Cat, June 20, 2019.
01-28-2015 12:30 PM
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c00ldud3 Offline
King Of Fools

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Post: #28
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

Tbh this is more like The Ultimate Thread For Free for All Flaming

01-28-2015 12:58 PM
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no Offline
True Scotsman

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Post: #29
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-28-2015 12:58 PM)c00ldud3 Wrote:  Tbh this is more like The Ultimate Thread For Free for All Flaming

Oh look, a concise definition of what feminism has become!

Hello, traveler.

This is an ancient account I have not used in a long time. My views have changed much in the intervening months and years.

Nonetheless, I refuse to clean it up. Pretending that I've held my current views since the beginning of time is what we in the industry call a lie. Asking people to do so contributes to moralistic self-loathing. "See, those people have nothing damning! I do! I'm truly vile!"

Because you can never be a good person with a single blemish on the moral record, I thought that simply entertaining some thoughts made me irredeemable. Though I don't care for his writing style, William Faulkner presents a good counterexample. He went from being a typical Southern racist to supporting the civil rights movement. These days we'd yell at him for that, probably.

People are allowed to change their views.

Nevertheless, this period of my life has informed some of how I am today. In good ways and bad ways. To purge it would be to do a disservice to history. Perhaps it will not make anyone sympathetic, but it may help someone understand.

If, after reading all this, you still decide to use the post above as evidence that I am evil today, ask yourself if you have never disagreed with the moral code you now follow. In all likelihood you did, at some point. If some questions are verboten, and the answer is "how dare you ask that," don't expect your ideological opponents to ever change their minds.
01-28-2015 01:04 PM
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 Thanks given by: Chanku , KFC Nyan Cat
Username Offline
Drunkard

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Post: #30
RE: The ultimate thread for feminism

(01-28-2015 12:58 PM)c00ldud3 Wrote:  Tbh this is more like The Ultimate Thread For Free for All Flaming

"Oh look, a somewhat controversial topic is generating half-decent discussion, this is flaming!"

No, it really isn't
01-28-2015 11:37 PM
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