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Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?
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Sharpie Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

uhhmm.
01-02-2015 12:38 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

uhm...drunk college students(age 18)

nuff said.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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01-02-2015 03:09 AM
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Post: #33
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

No. I'm a smoker. I started my junior year of high school and I honestly wish I hadn't. I enjoy smoking, part of that is the addiction talking and even as a non-smoker never thinking I would smoke it was still undeniably cool, but it's still something kids don't have the ability to decide on, nobody does not even adults, hell I would support moving the legal age to 21 if it meant fewer people would pick it up. It's honestly kind of difficult to get hooked but once you are it isn't gonna fucking go away and that's what big tobacco counts on. I've tried quitting numerous times and it's always failed. Longest I went was 6 months, but I'm back at it again.
I knew damn well the health effects going in but it was still an awful decision.
Frankly it's kind of surprising how many gas stations will sell to minors, but cigarettes were still harder for me to get than weed.
The best thing that could happen to cigarettes is for society to stigmatize them out of existence. We'd be a whole lot better off without them.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2015 04:54 AM by Thought Criminal.)
01-02-2015 04:50 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #34
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

I need alcohol. But not for drinking.
I need stuff like Everclear for some...science projects. Wonder if my beard would make it easy to obtain?

Funny thing is that in Turkey, there wasn't an age limit on smoking. Alcohol is also at age of 18 but that's another story.

Course it's not exactly healthy when you've got 13 year olds asking you for a lighter or most people assuming you carry either matches or lighter because you're young.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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01-02-2015 05:24 AM
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Post: #35
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

You can use Vodka as insect repellent

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01-02-2015 05:27 AM
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lisafromjackson Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

I feel like this is a little like asking if women should be drafted into the armed forces. I don't think ANYONE should be drafted.

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01-02-2015 05:50 AM
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Missile Offline
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RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(01-02-2015 05:50 AM)lisafromjackson Wrote:  I feel like this is a little like asking if women should be drafted into the armed forces. I don't think ANYONE should be drafted.

Then you should be glad that you don't live in Russia, Israel, or Switzerland

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01-02-2015 05:54 AM
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Post: #38
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

The Swiss and Israelis don't complain about conscription.

In fact in some countries that have conscription, it's considered a rite of passage.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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01-02-2015 06:25 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

I'm just saying that if I think something is wrong for a whole group, why woudl I think it was more or less wrong for one sub-group?

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01-02-2015 07:17 AM
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Missile Offline
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RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(01-02-2015 06:25 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  The Swiss and Israelis don't complain about conscription.

In fact in some countries that have conscription, it's considered a rite of passage.

Considering that I may join the Military when I hit 18, I wouldn't really care about conscription if I lived in Russia/Israel/Switzerland.

In Israel, both men and women are required by law to join the military when they turn 18.

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01-02-2015 07:41 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

Considering Israel is a democracy, it would be safe to assume conscription doesnt bother the constituents. Same for pretty much every real democracy with conscription(not the so-called democracies that are akin to presidential dictatorships)

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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01-02-2015 08:20 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(01-02-2015 06:25 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  In fact in some countries that have conscription, it's considered a rite of passage.

True.
01-02-2015 08:35 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #43
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

Should see Turkey. You're only half a man till you do your duty.

Of course most expatriates have money so they just "buy" their conscription with like 9-10k and only go for like two weeks which is primarily just official registering and stuff.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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Post: #44
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

I'm still waiting for MurkScribe's argument for letting kids smoke.
01-02-2015 10:55 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(01-02-2015 10:55 PM)Username Wrote:  I'm still waiting for MurkScribe's argument for letting kids smoke.

It's not gonna happen.

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RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

In the mean time, I shall light my fancy pipe and wear my monocoles to read the daily news in front of my fireplace on my velvet couch located within the luxurious library quarters of my grand estate.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

Still waiting, MurkScribble!
01-08-2015 11:54 PM
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Post: #48
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

No, a million times no, smoking is unhealthy and should be banned
02-18-2015 06:13 AM
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Evan92 Offline
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RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(02-18-2015 06:13 AM)LordSeliph Wrote:  No, a million times no, smoking is unhealthy and should be banned

So are big macs, should those be banned as well? Where I am the smoking age was 16 until the early 2000s.
02-18-2015 05:08 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

Allowing smoking should be a parental decision, at most.

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02-18-2015 05:58 PM
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RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

I was amazed to find such/any agreement here that young people should not be allowed to smoke. Ironically, your arguments are following the same pattern as the primary case for compulsory education, which members of this community apparently detest.

It goes like this:

(1) X is bad for all people.

(2) Young people tend to be susceptible to X.

(3) We should place special restrictions on all young people so that they cannot engage in X.

By replacing X with "uninformed voting", "irresponsible drinking", "crime", "smoking", and "ignorance", respectively, one can justify a voting age, drinking age, juvenile curfew, smoking age, and compulsory schooling age.

The problem with these conclusions is that even if premise two holds water statistically, the capable outliers are facing tremendous discrimination, the sort that would earn proponents immediate radical status if applied to any other physical trait than youth.

You can test this for yourself, but I would not recommend doing so in the presence of those whose respect you value. It's as easy as presenting the following reasoning with a straight face:

(1) Robbery is bad.

(2) Black people are disproportionately likely to rob (Statistics).

(3) Special restrictions ought to be placed on all black people to assure they don't thieve.

The fallacy is perhaps more pronounced in this socially unacceptable version of the youth argument. Its first and most obvious failure is its inconsideration of the substantial percentage--that is, the majority--of black people who can be responsible without additional limitation. In a world where we value human dignity to the utmost, we try very hard to avoid judging inwardly equal individuals differently based on outward characteristics. I can dodge this fact forever by insinuating that my opponents do not understand what a grievous thing robbery is, or by telling my own robbery sob story--wherein my poor, black cousin was caught up in a crime gang because police were not keeping a keen eye on African criminality--but equality among humans remains a stubborn adversary, and should haunt me in my sleep if I try.

To all you who defend the logic of the first argument, I hope you will be so intellectually honest as to consider the sameness of the second, and perhaps to combine your ageism with a healthy dose of racism. I can ignore bigotry, but this inconsistency is maddening.
02-18-2015 07:06 PM
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Jop Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(02-18-2015 07:06 PM)Aureate Wrote:  I was amazed to find such/any agreement here that young people should not be allowed to smoke. Ironically, your arguments are following the same pattern as the primary case for compulsory education, which members of this community apparently detest.

It goes like this:

(1) X is bad for all people.

(2) Young people tend to be susceptible to X.

(3) We should place special restrictions on all young people so that they cannot engage in X.

By replacing X with "uninformed voting", "irresponsible drinking", "crime", "smoking", and "ignorance", respectively, one can justify a voting age, drinking age, juvenile curfew, smoking age, and compulsory schooling age.

The problem with these conclusions is that even if premise two holds water statistically, the capable outliers are facing tremendous discrimination, the sort that would earn proponents immediate radical status if applied to any other physical trait than youth.

You can test this for yourself, but I would not recommend doing so in the presence of those whose respect you value. It's as easy as presenting the following reasoning with a straight face:

(1) Robbery is bad.

(2) Black people are disproportionately likely to rob (Statistics).

(3) Special restrictions ought to be placed on all black people to assure they don't thieve.

The fallacy is perhaps more pronounced in this socially unacceptable version of the youth argument. Its first and most obvious failure is its inconsideration of the substantial percentage--that is, the majority--of black people who can be responsible without additional limitation. In a world where we value human dignity to the utmost, we try very hard to avoid judging inwardly equal individuals differently based on outward characteristics. I can dodge this fact forever by insinuating that my opponents do not understand what a grievous thing robbery is, or by telling my own robbery sob story--wherein my poor, black cousin was caught up in a crime gang because police were not keeping a keen eye on African criminality--but equality among humans remains a stubborn adversary, and should haunt me in my sleep if I try.

To all you who defend the logic of the first argument, I hope you will be so intellectually honest as to consider the sameness of the second, and perhaps to combine your ageism with a healthy dose of racism. I can ignore bigotry, but this inconsistency is maddening.

"Adults" shouldn't self-destruct either. No ageism here.
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2015 06:23 AM by Jop.)
02-20-2015 06:22 AM
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Post: #53
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

First off Thank you Aureate with your well thought writing, it seems like every single post you put time, effort, and your graceful writing. To convey and examine the underlying assumptions about this argument to which I could not. And yes I do agree with this thing called logical consistency. There is no point in creating these free democratic schooling when the rest of the worlds institution is bureaucratic and oppressive such as the workplace and church. My mind and thoughts are still getting out of the dogma and the beholded myths that continues and perpetuates oppression among youth, children, adults, women, and pretty much everyone.

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02-22-2015 02:54 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

Ahm. Effective bureaucracy created by advances in management and administration made many things in your life possible and guaranteed. Aka reliable.

Bureaucracy is constantly misunderstood as a generally negative concept. Its not. Bureaucracy is the institution that serves to make government from the national to local scale properly integrate thus establishing a healthy line of communication between the government and the citizens.

When there is excessive redundancy, lack of interest, managerial failures, consistent partisanship and general apathy with quality then there are problems. However an unhealthy bureaucracy is not the fault of the bureaucracy. Would you blame a machine for working less effectively when a piece breaks, when those who are supposed to be monitoring it are negligent in their duties?

A bad bureaucracy is the symptom of bad governance.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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02-22-2015 04:51 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(11-17-2014 05:54 PM)Sharpie Wrote:  There's a lot of adults who don't understand how nicotine works and how much smoking can impact your health.

But they're still allowed to smoke...

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"CONSENSUAL incest is not wrong. (Abuse victims: being abused by a relative does not make it wrong for others to have consensual incest, any more than rape by a stranger makes all sex wrong. Sex and assault/molestation are two different things.) An aversion became common in humans that aided in population growth as one disease couldn't wipe out the human race. That's not a problem anymore.

Consensual incest is very common. You know people who have been involved, whether you know it or not.

There is no rational reason for keeping laws or taboos against consensual
incest that is consistently applied to other relationships. Personal disgust or religion is only a reason why one person would not want to personally engage in what I call consanguinamory, not why someone else shouldn't do it. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY consenting adults. Youthful experimentation between close relatives close in age is not uncommon, and there are more people than you'd think out there who are in lifelong healthy, happy relationships with a close relative. It isn't for everyone, but we're not all going to want to have each others' love lives, now are we? If someone thinks YOUR love life is disgusting, should you be thrown in prison?

Some people try to justify their prejudice against consanguineous sex and
marriage by being part-time eugenicists and saying that such relationships inevitably lead to “mutant” or “deformed” babies. This argument can be refuted on several fronts. 1. Some consanguineous relationships involve only people of the same gender. 2. Not all mixed-gender relationships birth biological children. 3. Most births to consanguineous parents do not produce children with significant birth defects or other genetic problems; while births to other parents do sometimes have birth defects. 4. We don’t prevent other people from marrying or deny them their reproductive rights based on increased odds of passing along a genetic problem or inherited disease. It is true that in general, children born to consanguineous parents have an increased chance of these problems than those born to nonconsanguineous parents, but the odds are still minimal. Unless someone is willing to deny reproductive rights and medical privacy to others and force everyone to take genetic tests and bar carriers and the congenitally disabled and women over 35 from having children, then equal protection principles prevent this from being a justification to bar this freedom of association and freedom to marry.

Some say "Your sibling should not be your lover." That is not a reason. It begs the question. Many people have many relationships that have more than one aspect. Some women say their sister is their best friend. Why can’t their sister be a wife, too?

Some say “There is a power differential.” This applies least of all to siblings or cousins who are close in age, but even where the power differential exists, it is not a justification for denying this freedom to sex or to marry. There is a power differential in just about any relationship, sometimes an enormous power differential. To question if consent is truly possible in these cases is insulting and demeaning.

Some say “There are so many people outside of your family." There are plenty of people within one’s own race, too, but that is no reason to ban interracial marriage. So, this isn't a good reason either. Let consenting adults love each other the way they want!"-Keith Pullman

01-15-2017 04:03 AM
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HSHARK Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

We don't need to ban cigarettes, we need to discourage people from smoking to gradually phase out the market.
01-17-2017 06:23 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

(01-17-2017 06:23 AM)HSHARK Wrote:  We don't need to ban cigarettes, we need to discourage people from smoking to gradually phase out the market.

their pee should hv been shot out like a ki blast breaking the rocks

oh and also No one has any rights. We're free, rights create invisible restrictions. But we live in a society where the majority accepts rights to be true.
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Post: #58
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

I never really understood the appeal to smoking tobacco anyway. That shit's nasty.

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Post: #59
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

If it helps relieve stress, I fucking need some. It's either that, or me dropping out of school right now. Or me shooting up the fucking place. I can't stand that shithole for another week.

And I think anyone around 12-14 can make their own informed decisions. Children aren't idiots, they mostly understand the risks, it's just that they don't give a fuck. And pretty much everything in this world is destructive: fast food, candy, the education system, the ungodly amounts of carbon monoxide from factories that are turning this planet into a fucking furnace. Everybody should have freedom. And, as Benjamin Franklin said, "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"Then it was straight to the 40 ouncers/ slapping teachers and jacking off in front of my counselors." As the World Turns - Eminem.

"A man is a success if gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between does whatever he does what he wants to do." - Bob Dylan.

"A good artist should be isolated. If he isn't isolated, something is wrong." - Orson Welles.

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons, even death may die." - H.P. Lovecraft.

"I became insane, with long intervals of painful sanity." Edgar Allan Poe.
05-20-2017 08:28 PM
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Post: #60
Smoking ciggerates, should It be allowed for the youth?

I'm not very fond of the American drinking age but I fear that allowing really young people to smoke/drink could have a horrible affect in that addiction rates may sore.

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05-21-2017 08:58 AM
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