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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.
I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.
I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.
I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.
I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.
Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.
Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.
-SoulRiser
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Quote:(Reuters) - A Malaysian airliner was shot down over eastern Ukraine by militants on Thursday, killing all 295 people aboard, a Ukrainian interior ministry official was quoted as saying by Interfax-Ukraine news agency.
The aircraft, which other sources said was a Boeing 777 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, came down near the city of Donetsk, stronghold of pro-Russian rebels, Anton Gerashchenko said, adding that it was hit by a ground-to-air missile.
There was no further confirmation of the report, although Ukrainian officials said local residents had found wreckage.
Malaysia Airlines said on its Twitter feed it had lost contact with its flight MH-17 from Amsterdam. "The last known position was over Ukrainian airspace," it said.
Gerashchenko was quoted as saying: "A civilian airliner travelling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has just been shot down by a Buk anti-aircraft system ... 280 passengers and 15 crew have been killed."
Interfax-Ukraine quoted another Ukrainian official as saying the plane disappeared from radar when it was flying at 10,000 metres (33,000 feet), a typical cruising altitude for airliners.
It came down at Torez, near Shakhtersk, some 40 km (25 miles) from the Russia border. The area has been the scene of fighting between Ukrainian troops and pro-Russian rebels.
Ukraine has accused Russia of taking an active role in the four-month-old conflict in recent days and accused it earlier on Thursday of shooting down a Ukrainian fighter jet - an accusation that Moscow denied.
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Quote:Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200 flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was allegedly shot down by a group of Russian-backed Cossack militants near the village of Chornukhine, Luhansk Oblast, some 80 kilometers north-west of Donetsk, according to recordings of intercepted phone calls between Russian military intelligence officers and members of terrorist groups, released by the country’s security agency (SBU).
One phone call apparently was made at 4:40 p.m. Kyiv time, or 20 minutes after the plane crash, by Igor Bezler, who the SBU says is a Russian military intelligence officer and leading commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic. He reports to a person identified by Ukraine’s SBU as a colonel in the main intelligence department of the general headquarters of the armed forces of the Russian Federation Vasili Geranin regarding the shot down plane, which is about to be examined by the militants.
The second intercepted conversation released by the Security Service of Ukraine was apparently between militants nicknamed “Major” and “Greek” immediately upon inspection of the crash site.
“It’s 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft,” Major is recorded as saying, as he admitted to seeing no weapons on site. “Absolutely nothing. Civilian items, medicinal stuff, towels, toilet paper.”
In the third part of conversation Cossack commander Nikolay Kozitsin talking to an unidentified militant cynically suggests that the Malaysia Airlines airplane could've been carrying spies, as, otherwise, it would have no business flying in that area.
Read the full transcript of an intercepted phone call below:
Igor Bezler: We have just shot down a plane. Group Minera. It fell down beyond Yenakievo (Donetsk Oblast).
Vasili Geranin: Pilots. Where are the pilots?
IB: Gone to search for and photograph the plane. Its smoking.
VG: How many minutes ago?
IB: About 30 minutes ago.
SBU comment: After examining the site of the plane the terrorists come to the conclusion that they have shot down a civilian plane. The next part of the conversation took place about 40 minutes later.
“Major”: These are Chernukhin folks who shot down the plane. From the Chernukhin check point. Those cossacks who are based in Chernukhino.
“Grek”: Yes, Major.
"Major": The plane fell apart in the air. In the area of Petropavlovskaya mine. The first “200” (code word for dead person). We have found the first “200”. A Civilian.
“Greek”: Well, what do you have there?
“Major”: In short, it was 100 percent a passenger (civilian) aircraft.
“Greek”: Are many people there?
“Major”: Holy sh__t! The debris fell right into the yards (of homes).
“Greek”: What kind of aircraft?
“Major”: I haven’t ascertained this. I haven’t been to the main sight. I am only surveying the scene where the first bodies fell. There are the remains of internal brackets, seats and bodies.
“Major”: Yes, of one Indonesian student. From a university in Thompson.
Militant: Regarding the plane shot down in the area of Snizhne-Torez. It’s a civilian one. Fell down near Grabove. There are lots of corpses of women and children. The Cossacks are out there looking at all this.
They say on TV it’s AN-26 transport plane, but they say it’s written Malaysia Airlines on the plane. What was it doing on Ukraine’s territory?
Nikolay Kozitsin (a Cossack commander): That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn’t be f…cking flying. There is a war going on.
Yeah, let's shoot down random civilian planes to make a point about... errr, somethin'. I'm sure they'll understand. Wait, what was the point again? Oh, that they're a bunch of fucktards... yeah, point came across loud and clear...
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"If you wanna know how not secure you are, just take a look around. Nothing's secure. Nothing's safe. I don't hate technology, I don't hate hackers, because that's just what comes with it, without those hackers we wouldn't solve the problems we need to solve, especially security."
Too much western propaganda in this thread, "blame russia for everything coz we pussy west shitting our pants with a shitton national debt and the only way to get rid of it is to make war with russia coz we can"
07-19-2014 03:21 AM
Thanks given by:
brainiac3397
Machiavellian Amoeba
Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
(07-19-2014 03:21 AM)LedoS Wrote: Too much western propaganda in this thread, "blame russia for everything coz we pussy west shitting our pants with a shitton national debt and the only way to get rid of it is to make war with russia coz we can"
They shouldn't have been in the airspace in first place, not defending the actions of anyone but many other airlines were not flying through that particular zone. The Dutch nor anyone other EU country will dare confront Russia with any economic sanctions. As the old saying goes "he who holds the gold make the rules", or in the modern case of Putin, he who holds the gas. Putin has them by the balls and they know it, I can't stand the man personally and disagree with his policies but I do admire his gusto.
07-19-2014 04:29 PM
Thanks given by:
James Comey
Banished Oldfaf in Exile
Posts: 6,500
Joined: Aug 2013
Both Russia and the US seem to be issuing pretty extensive propaganda campaigns. I'm just gonna hold my silence on this until a later date when we know more. It's easy to point fingers without the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if the US had a hand in it to demonize Russia, but Russia having some sort of involvement wouldn't surprise me either.
Either way, it sure is a pity. Almost 300 people killed, for what?
(07-20-2014 12:50 AM)|55555| Wrote: Both Russia and the US seem to be issuing pretty extensive propaganda campaigns. I'm just gonna hold my silence on this until a later date when we know more. It's easy to point fingers without the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if the US had a hand in it to demonize Russia, but Russia having some sort of involvement wouldn't surprise me either.
Either way, it sure is a pity. Almost 300 people killed, for what?
At least Russian propaganda isn't based on outright lies.
07-20-2014 02:01 AM
Thanks given by:
brainiac3397
Machiavellian Amoeba
Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
(07-20-2014 12:50 AM)|55555| Wrote: Both Russia and the US seem to be issuing pretty extensive propaganda campaigns. I'm just gonna hold my silence on this until a later date when we know more. It's easy to point fingers without the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if the US had a hand in it to demonize Russia, but Russia having some sort of involvement wouldn't surprise me either.
Either way, it sure is a pity. Almost 300 people killed, for what?
At least Russian propaganda isn't based on outright lies.
(07-20-2014 12:50 AM)|55555| Wrote: Both Russia and the US seem to be issuing pretty extensive propaganda campaigns. I'm just gonna hold my silence on this until a later date when we know more. It's easy to point fingers without the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if the US had a hand in it to demonize Russia, but Russia having some sort of involvement wouldn't surprise me either.
Either way, it sure is a pity. Almost 300 people killed, for what?
At least Russian propaganda isn't based on outright lies.
It was shot down by a jet, not AA.
Don't trust the new fascist lying government of Ukraine without any proof.
Also there are reasons to believe that this was a setup, not just a tragic accident.
And always ask who benefits the most from this.
Edit: offtopic but this is what your favorite pro-ukrainian gov troops are doing and have been doing for months already, but nope, west doesn't report this in the news, because they don't want to show the war crimes that their puppet government is doing, because it would just ruin the image of 'good ukrainian government fighting against terrorists' and ruin the bullshit anti-russian story that they have been feeding you for months. Gore and dead bodies in this video, watch at your own risk.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzRx5Uilia4
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2014 01:41 AM by 1312.)
07-21-2014 11:44 PM
Thanks given by:
James Comey
Banished Oldfaf in Exile
Posts: 6,500
Joined: Aug 2013
(07-21-2014 11:44 PM)LedoS Wrote: It was shot down by a jet, not AA.
Don't trust the new fascist lying government of Ukraine without any proof.
Also there are reasons to believe that this was a setup, not just a tragic accident.
And always ask who benefits the most from this.
Edit: offtopic but this is what your favorite pro-ukrainian gov troops are doing and have been doing for months already, but nope, west doesn't report this in the news, because they don't want to show the war crimes that their puppet government is doing, because it would just ruin the image of 'good ukrainian government fighting against terrorists' and ruin the bullshit anti-russian story that they have been feeding you for months. Gore and dead bodies in this video, watch at your own risk.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzRx5Uilia4
Once you claimed it's all just a set up you'r whole argument just died. I can't take seriously a conspiracy theorist. Have you heard the saying extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence??
"reasons to believe" do not equal evidence.
But look at this sea of evidence we're drowning in that all points to Russian trained seperatists. And here's the thing, they barely even denied it.
Anyways, there's no point in the argument. I don't care. Even if Ukrainians did shoot down the plane (which they obviously didn't) I would still be pro Ukraine. Russia had no right to even be in Ukraine in the first place. These terrorists, and yes, the separatists are terrorists, have a very simple solution.. move to fucking Russia! Leave Ukraine alone! Move to Russia and see how you like it there.
(07-22-2014 02:04 AM)Hansgrohe Wrote: Political flame fight between LedoS and Night.
LedoS, hire me as mercenary. I'm veteran at this!
I cba to argue with her when she can't even not twist my words and call me a conspiracy theorist.
Her whole argument is based on western/and kiev's propaganda, there's not much to argue about here.
(This post was last modified: 07-22-2014 07:13 AM by 1312.)
07-22-2014 07:12 AM
Thanks given by:
brainiac3397
Machiavellian Amoeba
Posts: 9,823
Joined: Feb 2013
Except the Russian terrorist have to reason to fight for freedom. No one is stopping them from moving out of Ukraine and into Russia.
They're fighting for the sake of fighting.
Oh and it's not the American government that I was thinking about when I called them terrorists. The Ukrainian Government considers them to be terrorists. So..