The Finnish Model

[Evan92]

Take a look at Finland's school system, no system is perfect but anything is better than what we have at present.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkNK3gY-rxg

[xcriteria]

I'm a bit wary about Finland, especially since it's become a sort of fad to cite it as the model to copy, while for most people nothing changes. It's definitely "better" in various ways, but it's still "school" in many traditional ways.

So, instead of looking to Finland and saying "let's copy this," I think more substantial re-envisioning needs to occur, especially at this point in history, and especially for students who really don't like school-as-usual.

I do want to learn more about Finland and its education system, but a lot of what's written is based on an "ooh, ahh..." kind of premise, since they have such great statistics.

In general, they still have grade levels, subjects, college as a separate level of school... and these are things that I think need to be dissolved, at least for the subset of students who can't learn like that.

Check out my comments here:

https://plus.google.com/1147365459142491...fZVPsDZV6h

In particular, I wondered if Finland's students are really happier with school, and I found this:

On the PISA (international standardized test), they asked 15-year-old test-takers whether they're happy at school. Finland scored near the bottom among surveyed countries, with less than 70% saying "agree" or "strongly agree" to the statement "I feel happy at school."



It's a very simple question... and it doesn't get into the why at all. But, an average of 20% do not feel happy at school, internationally.

Those are the people who are likely to be school-averse students. It'd be very interesting to have more detailed information about why people would express unhappiness, as I'm sure there are a range of reasons... and some number of students would check most or all of the boxes.

Thoughts?

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Ken Robinson mentioned the Finnish statistics in his last TED talk, from last year.

I started a thread about it at the time, which turned into one of these threads where I've dumped out a bunch of content, ideas, links, and videos:

Ken Robinson: How to escape education's death valley (new TED talk)

My last post there has some references to some other threads on SS. I'm wondering how to adapt the highlights of all of these months and years of us questioning things into something that can make for a brighter message for those who take issue with school, than "deal with it."

One step is getting parents thinking about these things, and opening more people's minds up to different ways to do education, broadly-conceived, than the limited forms school takes in most parts of the world.

[marduck]

Looks pretty good. A little socialistic, but allows for more choosing of what you want to learn.

[Evan92]

XC, it does make me wonder as well the truth of Finish and this documentary in particular. Who's to say they didn't just pick the best schools to showcase. The methods do seem somewhat better if you will than I have experienced. But I could also pick up the vibe of tension as well coupled with almost a lack of individuality. No system is perfect, to me there are certain aspects of the Finnish model which could be incorporated in a smaller sense. However the factory model of compulsory ed needs to be left on the ash heap of history.

[SoulRiser]

Quote:But, an average of 20% do not feel happy at school, internationally.

I'm actually surprised this isn't higher.

I guess 80% are happy because they have friends to hang out with, and that's probably the main reason... I doubt very many are happy because of schoolwork.

[brainiac3397]

Aren't most Scandinavians depressed or suicidal?

[School]

(07-10-2014 02:54 AM)SoulRiser Wrote:  

Quote:But, an average of 20% do not feel happy at school, internationally.

I'm actually surprised this isn't higher.

I guess 80% are happy because they have friends to hang out with, and that's probably the main reason... I doubt very many are happy because of schoolwork.

Bing bing. A lot of times kids like school because of friends and hanging out with them (or a particularly cool teacher) not because of school itself. They like socialization and school is the only way most kids get to socialize. Even if it is piss poor socialization.

In fact, socialization is one of the main arguments against homeschooling, but that usually comes from people who don't understand that healthier socialization is possible with homeschooling. Much healthier.

[Ky]

If we were to copy this model, it would not be possible for us to Finnish first. Get it? Get it? Ah, forget it.

Anyway, 20% is still a lot of school-averse students, and we do indeed have to keep in mind that the other 80% are being given the educational equivalent of bread and circuses so that they don't have to focus on the antiquity and inefficiency of the system. Only a few, I think, are truly happy.

[Evan92]

(07-10-2014 02:21 PM)DoA Wrote:  If we were to copy this model, it would not be possible for us to Finnish first. Get it? Get it? Ah, forget it.

Anyway, 20% is still a lot of school-averse students, and we do indeed have to keep in mind that the other 80% are being given the educational equivalent of bread and circuses so that they don't have to focus on the antiquity and inefficiency of the system. Only a few, I think, are truly happy.

That's begs another question, what system model, if any can truly please everyone?

[Ky]

The answer is multiple models. One size doesn't fit all.

[Evan92]

(07-10-2014 05:38 PM)DoA Wrote:  The answer is multiple models. One size doesn't fit all.

Yes that would be the ideal system but what is the realistic solution to the present? Believe me I would love nothing more than to dismantle the present indoctrination system but hold up a sec. The users on this site, most of them anyways are some very intelligent people. They are not the norm of what dwells within the halls of public schools. The counter argument would be if students were more engaged in a educational process more students be more apt to learning.

I think this is partially so, but you still will have a good chunk who will not give two shits either way. The best method would be to make those methods available to those who wish to pursue them and not forcing everyone down an alternate path.

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(07-10-2014 07:54 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  Aren't most Scandinavians depressed or suicidal?

Quite true actually from the studies I have read.

[School]

Evan it's up to the parents. That is their job to work with their kids to find out which system their child enjoys and works best under. The problem these days is that, because of compulsory schooling, parents literally give up their jobs to the state, which is a terrible idea. Thus the state has perpetual customers and very little reason to adapt to the customers desires and instead provide a cheaper one size fits all.

Look at it like this, if everyone was forced to purchase Nintendo systems and games, Nintendo would have less incentive to be innovative and create quality games and more incentive to make easy to make cheap games for maximum profit. Since the law makes sure they don't have to worry about losing customers.

[xcriteria]

(07-10-2014 05:07 PM)Evan92 Wrote:  

(07-10-2014 02:21 PM)DoA Wrote:  Anyway, 20% is still a lot of school-averse students, and we do indeed have to keep in mind that the other 80% are being given the educational equivalent of bread and circuses so that they don't have to focus on the antiquity and inefficiency of the system. Only a few, I think, are truly happy.

That's begs another question, what system model, if any can truly please everyone?

I think the answer is an approach where people get to know each other a lot better than they currently tend to in most "systems."

If more of "professionals of the mind" (teachers, psychologies, counselors, forum moderators [!], etc.) learned how to better get to know people, how their minds work, and what their underlying needs/wants/preferences and interests are, it could go a long way.

Here's Paul Kim talking about the importance of "needs analysis" from the Designing a New Learning Environment MOOC I "took" in late 2012:



Watch on YouTube

That's a key part of what's called "design thinking," an approach to making things that better fit people's needs.



If people in schools (or "learning communities" in general) were more focused on looking at needs/preferences/interests, opportunities, available resources, and just the story they're co-authoring, maybe it's less about what "system" is used, then letting "form follow function," as they say?

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(07-10-2014 05:45 PM)Evan92 Wrote:  

(07-10-2014 05:38 PM)DoA Wrote:  The answer is multiple models. One size doesn't fit all.

Yes that would be the ideal system but what is the realistic solution to the present? Believe me I would love nothing more than to dismantle the present indoctrination system but hold up a sec. The users on this site, most of them anyways are some very intelligent people. They are not the norm of what dwells within the halls of public schools. The counter argument would be if students were more engaged in a educational process more students be more apt to learning.

Most people here are quite intelligent, and have a lot of potential... but how many of us are really engaged in a thriving process of active learning, creating, playing, and producing?

Even having discovered each other, having the tools to interact, and having access to more and more information and resources, I feel like we're not living a solution even for us, let alone being able to provide a replicable model for everyone.

I think if we changed that, maybe we could accomplish both purposes.

What would it take, for the overall tone to shift to "let's do things," instead of a focus on what's wrong, what we can't do, etc.

I think now is a good time to jumpstart that, especially since it's the summer.

As for "truly pleasing everyone," that's not always possible. But, there's the question of what "pleasing" means... and what people want in the first place. If we can step back from traditional assumptions, and look for "win-win-win" actions, a lot more becomes possible. The idea is to adopt an abundance mindset, but still recognize scarcity and constraints... but, be more conscious about choosing which constraints to anchor to, and set goals around.

(I'm sure I can explain what I have in mind better than that, but I'm tired... so hopefully that makes some sense.... and I wrote a bunch more, but I'm going to try adapting it into a new post, since it's all about the general purposes of education, and what kind of models to build based on that.)

[Trekkie_Aspie]

(07-10-2014 05:07 PM)Evan92 Wrote:  

(07-10-2014 02:21 PM)DoA Wrote:  If we were to copy this model, it would not be possible for us to Finnish first. Get it? Get it? Ah, forget it.

Anyway, 20% is still a lot of school-averse students, and we do indeed have to keep in mind that the other 80% are being given the educational equivalent of bread and circuses so that they don't have to focus on the antiquity and inefficiency of the system. Only a few, I think, are truly happy.

That's begs another question, what system model, if any can truly please everyone?

That's like asking what size of clothing/shoes can fit everyone. If one-size-fits-all truly fit everybody, it would be the norm, wouldn't it? But a size 6 shoe isn't a good fit for either a size 8 foot or a size 4 foot. That's what different sizes are for.