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The School Survival Forums are permanently retired. If you need help with quitting school, unsupportive parents or anything else, there is a list of resources on the Help Page.

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To everyone who joined these forums at some point, and got discouraged by the negativity and left after a while (or even got literally scared off): I'm sorry.

I wasn't good enough at encouraging people to be kinder, and removing people who refuse to be kind. Encouraging people is hard, and removing people creates conflict, and I hate conflict... so that's why I wasn't better at it.

I was a very, very sensitive teen. The atmosphere of this forum as it is now, if it had existed in 1996, would probably have upset me far more than it would have helped.

I can handle quite a lot of negativity and even abuse now, but that isn't the point. I want to help people. I want to help the people who need it the most, and I want to help people like the 1996 version of me.

I'm still figuring out the best way to do that, but as it is now, these forums are doing more harm than good, and I can't keep running them.

Thank you to the few people who have tried to understand my point of view so far. I really, really appreciate you guys. You are beautiful people.

Everyone else: If after everything I've said so far, you still don't understand my motivations, I think it's unlikely that you will. We're just too different. Maybe someday in the future it might make sense, but until then, there's no point in arguing about it. I don't have the time or the energy for arguing anymore. I will focus my time and energy on people who support me, and those who need help.

-SoulRiser

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You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!
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Evan92 Offline
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Post: #1
You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

There is no one stop answer to fix a crumbling system. The best measure of action as i see it is to make you hardships known. Posting on this site is one thing but actually making the voice of the people reach policy makers and other authority figures of the indoctrination system is another. It is time to fight back and say never again will I allow myself to be treated as a second class citizen.

To all of you school aged users on this site, this September make your dissatisfaction evident. Write professionally and concisely to your school districts and state/provincial offices. Tell them what is wrong with this system and make some noise about it. A teacher is rude to you, file a formal grievance with the district call it harassment . Make phone calls, bury them in paperwork, threaten legal action and don't give up without a fight.

Use every fucking excuse in the book to play dirty. Request accommodations be made do to religion (doesn't matter if you are or not). Did you know many people have been able to be exempt from certain assignments do to religion alone? School makes you depressed? Get medical leave and don't go! I implore everyone on here to study the legal system for it is your greatest friend and weapon.
07-06-2014 05:27 PM
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Post: #2
RE: You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

>send professional letters to school offices
>play dirty

lel

Letters and shit will only get you so far. We need to take to the streets, to tell them "No.". To tell them that we reject their system and will replace it with a new one.

That's certainly not something we can do yet, but the best we can do now is organise into groups and anti-school collectives. Then perhaps we can protest, then maybe revolution.

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07-06-2014 10:11 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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Post: #3
You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

I totally agree about using our voices and making hardships known... but I'd suggest a bit different approach in how to do that.

Raising awareness of the situation of school-averse learners / cognitive refugees / (whatever other term you want to use) is important... and that includes letting those in the system understand how we feel.

But, making life harder for already stressed-out educators and administrators isn't likely to help our cause at all. In fact, I think it could hurt it a lot. Instead, we need to research, build, and live out alternatives, and show people what can work better.

Beyond those running and working in traditional schools, one of the key things I think we need to do is get dialogue with parents going. If parents are open to learning about the problems, and discussing alternatives, that opens the door to bypassing "the system" completely, at least for the families that are open to it.

However, many parents want to see some kind of learning environment that involves expert educators being involved in their kids' learning... providing feedback and challenges, indicating progress, and so on. Likewise, many parents want to see a place their kids go to away from home to do at least some of that learning. Those are things we can help facilitate... including by finding and promoting learning spaces that aren't based on factory-model control, and including by collaborating with educators and psychologists and experience designers to build new learning environments.

We can start here on School Survival, and take learning more actively into our hands. That includes more than just reading and watching content like texts and lectures, though those are valid ways to learn. I've found I've learned some of the most from interacting with people, writing, and trying to figure out how to adapt content into different formats.

Whatever the approach, learning how to learn and grow, despite school or parents, is critical for changing things. And seeing the system as being in the way of that is, itself, a blocking factor to change.

We have so many more allies than just 2 years ago... I propose doing more to get in dialogue with them. The thing is, almost nobody will venture onto these forums, at least to register and reply... despite the fact that I've linked many threads to the conversations I've been having on G+ and elsewhere with allies.

Improving the site and the quality of dialogue here could go a long way there... but I also encourage those who are interested to get on G+, introduce yourselves, and join in on the conversations there. Real people form here getting in those other conversations makes all of this seem a lot more real than some detached underworld that people dare not venture too far into.

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07-07-2014 01:14 AM
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Lime Offline
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Post: #4
You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Everybody knows that kids hate school, but they accept it because of its supposed benefits. Confirming their thoughts by yelling and writing letters will not do anything. There's also the problem that most people simply will not listen to children in such matters anyway-when was the last you got that to work?
07-07-2014 02:50 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

(07-07-2014 02:50 AM)Lime Wrote:  There's also the problem that most people simply will not listen to children in such matters anyway-when was the last you got that to work?

There are now many credible adults who are actively promoting the fact that schools-as-they've-been are not meeting the needs of 21st century learners, that there are better ways to do things, and that the traditional justifications of dealing with school-as-usual don't hold up given the 21st century economy.

These have gone from relatively fringe notions to things a lot of people are discussing, including quite a few parents... who are realizing that drill-kill-bubble-fill testing in math and English isn't how education should work, especially when they see all the ways to learn online.

Many educators want out of their traditional roles, and some are taking the leap to start new kinds of learner-centric learning environments.

It's time for School Survival to transition from the "nothing we can do" + "how can we rebel someday?" ways of thinking, to dialogue and coordination with our allies, and encouragement of active dialogue with parents and educators, as well as other students.

Show them the sea change in perspectives. We have a lot more people on our side than the traditional few like John Taylor Gatto. I can arrange hangouts with your parents with educators and parents who agree school-as-usual does net harm to a good portion of students, and who want to work with families to build better ways to do education.

See What is Connected Learning? for some examples of allies who believe learning should be interesting, relevant, and go beyond the walls of schools.

And, more and more parents are reacting like this:

And so, in January, I withdrew my daughter to have her homeschooled. In North Carolina, all you need to register as a homeschool is a valid email address and proof of a high school diploma. I faxed over my teaching license in lieu of a high school diploma and I got the green light to be an official homeschool almost immediately.

As I watch my son and his third grade friends slog through this painful school year, I know that my decision to withdraw his twin was the right one. I have watched this testing mania explode this year, and we aren't even at the hot week of May when the school will become somber and tomblike and students in grades three through five will do nothing every morning but take a different end-of-grade test and then sit at their desk doing nothing while their classmates finish. I know that allowing my daughter to read and write and explore her own interests this year is a million times better than watching a child who has always loved to learn withdraw from friends and family and lose her thirst for knowledge.

If, at any point in the last decade, you had told me I would be a homeschool parent, I would have laughed incredulously. As an educator and an engaged citizen, I want our public schools to work. I want our public schools to be educating and graduating other committed, capable, and involved citizens. But as I watch the love for learning being beaten out of young, eager, students by this excessive testing situation, I know that we are heading down a path that is not only problematic in the short term but will do our state and our community a major disservice going forward.


( Enough Is Enough: Why I Withdrew My Daughter From Public School)

Show articles and links like these to your parents and start a conversation. If it doesn't work, report the results and try again another day. Ask them about their own experience of school. Find out what they're most interested and concerned about for your future, and research ways to address those concerns.

Do items like this help provide any hope? I can produce a lot more of them... and I think we need to get these snippets into a better form for sharing with parents and others. As more dialogue happens, we need to document it and show people examples of more people starting to realize that pain, boredom, and misery are not the best way to learn, nor to prepare for life.

Meaningful challenges are key -- but that's exactly what many of us aren't finding in school.

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


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07-07-2014 03:28 AM
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Evan92 Offline
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Post: #6
You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

(07-07-2014 02:50 AM)Lime Wrote:  Everybody knows that kids hate school, but they accept it because of its supposed benefits. Confirming their thoughts by yelling and writing letters will not do anything. There's also the problem that most people simply will not listen to children in such matters anyway-when was the last you got that to work?

I am an adult now but I did manage to successfully hold my school district civilly liable. I am not at liberty to discuss specifics or name parties because I am under a non disclosure agreement as part of my settlement. My case did not go to court but was settled in arbitration.

This was done when I was 19, 2 years after being out of school. I kept records and documentation of everything that occurred when dealing with the school.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 04:48 AM by Evan92.)
07-07-2014 04:44 AM
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Rebag102 Offline
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Post: #7
You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Teachers: OH SHIT THEY'RE FINDING OUT!!!!

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07-07-2014 05:59 AM
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brainiac3397 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Get into politics.

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(06-14-2013 08:02 AM)Potato Wrote:  watch the fuq out, we've got an "intellectual" over here.

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07-07-2014 06:33 AM
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KFC Nyan Cat Away
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Post: #9
You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Evan92 president '16

(07-06-2014 10:11 PM)SwiftEscudo Wrote:  >send professional letters to school offices
>play dirty

That is playing dirty, considering the norm is "sit down and shut up."

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For anyone who remembers me going on an archive binge: Thank you all. I know I ended it being a drama queen, I don't really agree with the ideology anymore, and I'm really not the same person I was (I went through a neopagan phase!) but still this site was the first online community I was in. I graduated from school and turned 18. Time flies. KFC Nyan Cat, June 20, 2019.
(This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 08:46 AM by KFC Nyan Cat.)
07-07-2014 08:44 AM
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xcriteria Offline
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You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Mood: irritated, frustrated with slow progress forward

People, can you try replying with multi-sentence responses?

Tell a story about something you tried doing... what your friends think about this stuff, what your parents say, what you'd do if you could pursue education according to how you'd like it... what you'd be open to doing to help change things and raise awareness...

Politics is one angle, but a lot can be done beyond what politicians can even do. A lot requires changing mindsets of parents, educators, administrators, and just promoting better ways to do things. Politicians have their hands tied in many ways... and if we can develop solutions and get buy-in for them from people involved in education and/or parents, we don't even have to be politicians to propose those solutions.

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


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07-07-2014 09:02 AM
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Metabytes Offline
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You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

I say we try to get students recognized as workers. Unionize, strike, protest, maybe we'll be taken seriously. I've never seen anyone try to go about this using this approach. Hell, we might even be able to get paid for our hard work. Oh, pic is a reference to the General Strike that goes on every May 1st.


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07-07-2014 02:40 PM
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xcriteria Offline
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You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

What would you like to see in place of school-as-it-is?

If you can envision and implement a better way of learning (as I'm looking to facilitate), and bring allies into the conversation (of which there are many that I think few on this site realize), I think that'd work a lot better than just protesting.

If you jump into some of the conversations on G+, in the chat, and on the hangouts we've been doing, you might see a totally different way of looking at it all. Smile

StuVoice.org

Nikhil Goyal

Connected Learning

Future of Education interviews with Steve Hargadon (hundreds of them)

Arizona School-averse Student Association (AZSASA)

And so many more...

Let's get in dialogue, improve School Survival, build out a network of related sites, and find ways to get in dialogue with parents.

Above all... if we can model what real learning, connecting, and creating looks like outside of school, we'll have some of the best evidence at all. The tools are in our hands... and it's the summer, when few people have to deal with school, or at least much of it.

The only way to change things is to be able to propose viable alternatives, which actually result in some kind of learning AND persuade parents that it'll all lead to viable income in the future.

Check out AZSASA in particular... I see a lot of potential for collaboration and dialogue there.

(Does that sound plausible?)

Peter Gray & allies launching the Alliance for Self-directed Education

ASDE Newsletters: #1 Announcement | #2 History of ASDE | #6 Education Liberation


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07-08-2014 05:33 AM
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Evan92 Offline
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There is no particular alternative which will solely work on its own, a blended approach is needed to facilitate the different learning styles of students. There are some methods I see working better;

1. Granting more autonomy to schools themselves and allowing schools to form their programs to fit the unique needs of the students while still following some mandates from central boards and districts. This must be coupled with a community democratic selection process of leadership as well.

2. Considering the liquidation of capital infrastructure, dismantlement and privatization of chronically failing districts. Moving towards a voucher system would work in certain districts and would greatly benefit students by having more competition to fill staffing requirements and having educators directly invested in the outcomes of learning.

3. A mixed learning instruction, I know of a school in my city where they have a self paced learning program. Students are not required to attend everyday but they seek instructors on an as needed basis and return for periodic testing. This concept could also be intertwined with online based programs.

4. Supporting alternative programs to fit students whom have not been successful in the standard system. Concepts such as the Summerhill model and other alternative settings should be further explored as well.
07-08-2014 06:26 AM
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Post: #14
You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

I think schooling might be the most universally hated yet accepted institution in the world. If enough people question it and it loses that "of course" status, it's unlikely that a new alternative could turn into a bad thing, since people could just choose to not learn that way. Also, as a general idea current school is a failure, because there's no way to "prove" it is useful to everyone.Individual classes, maybe, but there's no way to prove every day, every period, useful fun learning is happening.
07-09-2014 11:57 AM
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RE: You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Most of the suggestions are alright, however alternate methods of Education are not quite supported in Developing countries, where the belief still exists that "Schools=Education" (for example, my own country, India. Others are there too: Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Pakistan, many others)

Even if the kids may know that, they are afraid to voice it, in a place where they hit you whenever you challenge the authority and beliefs of elders who somehow think that they are always right. Of course, the fact doesn't help that Schools are indirectly Glorified in our Rights and that the Parents haven't realised that when times change, Education Systems and Teacher's way of teaching does too. They still think that teachers are always right, School Officials are always right, and that's how the kid's own voice is pushed down, ignored and sat upon. In the rural society, Homeschooling is frowned upon, and while it shouldn't be as such in the Urban society, it still is. What are we kids supposed to do?

My Curiosity is gone, and I do not have a chance to explore with all the workload. My talents have gone waste, but I don't want the same to happen to my 3-yr old Brother's fate, but my parents hold the same radical views that Schools are always right. My thoughts: 'I have lost the capability to rise against my Subduing Parents. What should I do to safeguard my brother's future?'

This is not my situation only, it is of many others around me. Many students don't even know that Alternative methods of Education exist, and know now after I had introduced these to them. Now, do you still think that just 'Raising our Voice' should do?

I may sound that I have given up but fuck it, I don't care.
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^Why do you keep Capitalizing random Words?
02-08-2016 06:13 AM
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Primal Maximal Offline
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RE: You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Dunno......its the plone's fault+my own random muses which are RANDOM.

I personally have yet to see a pattern into it....

Is it supposed to pose a problem? If not, then I am not going through the effort of editing it...
(This post was last modified: 02-12-2016 04:49 AM by Primal Maximal.)
02-12-2016 04:47 AM
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It's not a problem, I was just wondering.
02-12-2016 05:56 AM
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Rule_BreakerXVIII Offline
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You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

PrimalMaximal, I think you might find this interesting. It's not much, but I'd like to point out not all of us are total dipshits.

Quote:Even if the kids may know that, they are afraid to voice it, in a place where they hit you whenever you challenge the authority and beliefs of elders who somehow think that they are always right. Of course, the fact doesn't help that Schools are indirectly Glorified in our Rights and that the Parents haven't realised that when times change, Education Systems and Teacher's way of teaching does too. They still think that teachers are always right, School Officials are always right, and that's how the kid's own voice is pushed down, ignored and sat upon. In the rural society, Homeschooling is frowned upon, and while it shouldn't be as such in the Urban society, it still is. What are we kids supposed to do?

My Curiosity is gone, and I do not have a chance to explore with all the workload. My talents have gone waste, but I don't want the same to happen to my 3-yr old Brother's fate, but my parents hold the same radical views that Schools are always right. My thoughts: 'I have lost the capability to rise against my Subduing Parents. What should I do to safeguard my brother's future?'

This is not my situation only, it is of many others around me. Many students don't even know that Alternative methods of Education exist, and know now after I had introduced these to them. Now, do you still think that just 'Raising our Voice' should do?

And as for your point, I think letting the others be-for now- and focusing on making our life better first is the better idea. The parents might have financial control over you but that's only going to last as long as you're financially dependent on them. Don't exacerbate your situation by letting them blackmail you into staying even after you have a job, your own place to stay and so on.

All we can do is tell people that school isn't the best way to learn, but the fact stays that it is the ONLY way to learn for many people in our country. The result of this is that most people are actually ashamed to demand better, and this is made worse by parents, teachers and other authorities.

I think that the masses should be allowed to wake up by themselves; I'm not wasting my time when they don't listen to me, or even have the mental capacity to realise that I'm probably right. To them I'm just another voice shouting in their ears.

TL;DR
So, do you recognise their authority? Or do you go out and make your own? That's the essence of my point, I guess, that we're wasting our time by trying to drag these people out of the cave.

Don't play chess with pigeons-they'll just knock over the pieces, shit on the board and strut about like they won anyway.
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To forget!?

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02-15-2016 06:31 PM
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You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

Wink
02-16-2016 12:04 AM
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Primal Maximal Offline
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RE: You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

I guess you're right. But as I've mentioned, my 'voice' is kinda subdued already, and its not only my own, my cousins feel the same too. We used to talk sometimes (because Transferrable Jobs of Daddy Dearest) and the fact that we all agreed on is that our family way for kids to grow up is first for their confidence to rebel is destroyed, and then their talents be wasted. We all know that none of them want that, but with us, this happens to all.

I want to find a way, yanno. Just raising the voice won't work, they will realise the truth of your statement eons later, and even after that half of the population would not believe you. Exactly what happens to scientists that state true facts. They'll realise it over your dead body (and there's the 'maybe' factor too), while I want to see the change happening before I die (just joking, but the lines of my hand say that I'll die soon...:-P)


How should I start? Homeschooling my brother? Because what my parents would say if I leave school is
1) a giant big fat N.O. (in as many languages they know, which should be more than I know, which is 7)
2) "You're lucky to go to school. You have seen the kids asking for money on the streets, right? You'll end up like them if you don't. Stop making me angry or you'll regret it." (Or maybe give a slap or two?)

So, the best bet I can see is my brother, who is gonna be 3 yr old in the next month.
02-17-2016 05:55 AM
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Primal Maximal Offline
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RE: You Have a Voice, Fucking Use it!

And you said 'this' isn't much.

Not much, eh? The articles you gave were awesome! Can't type out properly cuz I'm using only one hand but whatever, they were really good. Thank you.
02-17-2016 06:12 AM
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