My way, as a Christian, to deal with the homophobes in the Church.

[WalterScottDempsey]

Whenever a "Christian" uses passages from the Old Testament to justify homophobic bigotry, call him a Judaizer and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: "I’ve been found out!" He KNOWS he speaks of venomous lies and of outdated justifications, but he fears the TRUTH being spoken to those in the church; he FEARS the thought of Christians actually knowing what their own books are saying! For that shall unshackle them from the anchor of stereotypes and profitable lies by the American neo-cons.

[Ky]

Indeed. It was Jesus who told us to "walk in love", after all, but these homophobes are using Christianity as a shield to hide their intolerance behind. Furthermore, neoconservatives are a stain on the Republican Party, and make conservatism in general seem less legitimate. With people like this around, is it any wonder that the public lashes out against the groups they supposedly represent?

[WalterScottDempsey]

(06-04-2014 05:18 AM)DoA Wrote:  Indeed. It was Jesus who told us to "walk in love", after all, but these homophobes are using Christianity as a shield to hide their intolerance behind. Furthermore, neoconservatives are a stain on the Republican Party, and make conservatism in general seem less legitimate. With people like this around, is it any wonder that the public lashes out against the groups they supposedly represent?

And here's the thing. The scripture of Paul shows that he fought tooth and nail against the damn Judaizers. That the old ways were no longer necessary for anyone, let alone us Gentiles! Yet these so-called Christians continue to speak of the old testament. In fact, it was these people that led me away from the Church and the Christian faith itself during my darkest times. They who dare to speak against non-Christians yet refuse to follow the words of Christ... perhaps THEY are the anti-Christ!

[Cianna200]

Jesus spoke nothing against homosexuality it fact, he was a friend of those who Christians would see as outcasts or hellbound sinners. As a pagan, I'd say continue to walk in sympathy and compassion as this is the heart of many religions

[WalterScottDempsey]

(06-04-2014 06:00 AM)Cianna200 Wrote:  Jesus spoke nothing against homosexuality it fact, he was a friend of those who Christians would see as outcasts or hellbound sinners. As a pagan, I'd say continue to walk in sympathy and compassion as this is the heart of many religions

I feel a great need to evangelize within the faith. After all, one must remove the plank from the eye before criticizing the grain of sawdust in someone else's eye.

[KFC Nyan Cat]

The super-antithiests and neoconservatives have the same problem: they don't understand the New Covenant and they take the Bible nearly 100% literally. Even if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, you can't say that it's a reason to hate, because humans are born into sin, no human has not committed a sin, and God is all-loving. Maybe homosexuals are born into the sin of homosexuality. Anyone ever think of that?

[WalterScottDempsey]

(06-04-2014 08:46 AM)KFC Nyan Cat Wrote:  The super-antithiests and neoconservatives have the same problem: they don't understand the New Covenant and they take the Bible nearly 100% literally. Even if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, you can't say that it's a reason to hate, because humans are born into sin, no human has not committed a sin, and God is all-loving. Maybe homosexuals are born into the sin of homosexuality. Anyone ever think of that?

We are born in a fallen world. To single out one minor sin out of all others is just ridiculous. You don't see churches excluding single moms or alcoholics or rapists or murderers or fornicators or straight sodomizers or anyone else, yet if you are homosexual or some other sexual other than hetero be careful! Your sin is somehow exceptional!

[brainiac3397]

I thought most(all) Christians were born with sin.

[Ky]

(06-04-2014 09:31 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  I thought most(all) Christians were born with sin.

We are. The point is that God won't exclude anyone from His mercy, especially not the people the fundies call sinners.

[brainiac3397]

Suckers.

[WalterScottDempsey]

(06-04-2014 09:31 AM)brainiac3397 Wrote:  I thought most(all) Christians were born with sin.

That is a controversial subject matter. Personally, I believe we are all born innocent and that we are held accountable for our actions at the coming of age.

[Cianna200]

No since sin would be a stain on god's character, therefore sin does not exist. Original sin makes absolutely no sense, and if people are born into homosexuality that means god created homosexuality so homosexuality cannot be a crime in god's eyes.

[WalterScottDempsey]

(06-04-2014 12:47 PM)Cianna200 Wrote:  No since sin would be a stain on god's character, therefore sin does not exist. Original sin makes absolutely no sense, and if people are born into homosexuality that means god created homosexuality so homosexuality cannot be a crime in god's eyes.

Exactly! It isn't a sin to not be attracted to women. The sin is lust, sodomy and promiscuity, bot those sins can affect everyone regardless of orientation!

[Cianna200]

No the point I made was that sin can't possibly exist in a literal sense, the term sin's actual meaning is hamartia which means ''to miss the mark or make a mistake that stops spiritual growth dead in it's tracks.''. Since god created everyone with flaws it must have been his decree to create flawed beings, we humans are imperfect and god knows it, so if sin as in any human conduct that angers god cannot exist since sin would be a stain on god's character ad he can't expect us to be perfect specially when it comes to the christian concept of original sin.

[thewake]

The concept of original sin implies a generational sort of sin, passed down from fathers and mothers to their children over and over again. According to those who hold to the doctrine of the Fall, mankind was originally sinless, but deviated from this state by the actions of the original people (Adam and Eve). In other words, humans weren't originally flawed, but their free will set them on a path of flawedness and sin. Arguably, God did not make sinful beings, but these beings turned away and brought sin upon themselves.

Doesn't make sense? None of it does.

[brainiac3397]

Or perhaps God knows that perfection would create a static existence, thus he introduced the random variability of disability, weaknesses and flaws to maintain a healthy balance of chaos and peace to aid in the unpredictable progression of time.

Nature itself can be considered another balancing aspect, opposite that of human. Disease, natural disaster and the like can be considered "unforeseen" events meant to influence the timeline of humanity and cause various actions and reactions among mankind.

The idea of sin would be the "breaking" of a sort of "natural" law. Every sin causes some sort of negative effect on another while the sinner "gains" some sort of positive. The negative then causes the other to become less positive, and thus possibly retaliate. In the long-run, such behaviors left unchecked would destroy humanity as humans can not possibly "advance" as individuals. We require societal input.

It's more likely God did not make sin impossible on purpose, but rather made it a possible choice in life. Rather the idea of sin is most likely to provide a basic outline of the things that would tear apart human societies and bring down civilizations. Avoiding such outcomes, or surviving them, would serve to challenge man, and when this challenge is overcome, mankind would either gain something or lose(depending on the motives of those taking on the challenge, and the reception of the outcome, and the methods used to beat the challenge).

I personally wouldn't consider it "angering" God to sin. Rather I'd consider sins to be crime committed against humanity as a whole, with God the judge. There is no jury, but society generally chooses to be just that(and sometimes take a step further and become the judge themselves).

That being said, I would consider that all that we can do, have done and will do have already been(since they must exist to be discovered and learned in a sense). We can say that God would encompass everything humanity does right, and Satan encompasses everything we can do wrong.

Why did God create Satan? This implies that God is above Satan(which I do believe). Why does Satan exist? Because Satan is a challenge all of mankind.

God is the beginning and the end, but Satan is the road in between. Whether an individual human makes it, and humanity altogether, would depend on how we handle the path we tread.

[WalterScottDempsey]

I guess the religious aspects matter less to me than the lessons of Christ. That you are not to think that you're better than anyone; that you're just as flawed as everyone else; that wealth means very little in life; that you are to help your fellow man. Really, Christianity is the discarding of the old testament. It's irrelevant. Completely and utterly irrelevant as anything other than dead words, as the new testament is the living, breathing word of Jesus.

[Ky]

(06-07-2014 12:51 AM)WalterScottDempsey Wrote:  I guess the religious aspects matter less to me than the lessons of Christ. That you are not to think that you're better than anyone; that you're just as flawed as everyone else; that wealth means very little in life; that you are to help your fellow man. Really, Christianity is the discarding of the old testament. It's irrelevant. Completely and utterly irrelevant as anything other than dead words, as the new testament is the living, breathing word of Jesus.

Yes, yes indeed.

An important aspect of the OT that Jesus was very quick to dismiss was organized religion in general; he called religious authorities (and followers) "hypocrites" for pretending to offer salvation to others when in truth they used their religious affiliations to persecute groups they didn't like. That sounds a lot like the homophobes of today!

[KFC Nyan Cat]

(06-07-2014 12:51 AM)WalterScottDempsey Wrote:  I guess the religious aspects matter less to me than the lessons of Christ. That you are not to think that you're better than anyone; that you're just as flawed as everyone else; that wealth means very little in life; that you are to help your fellow man. Really, Christianity is the discarding of the old testament. It's irrelevant. Completely and utterly irrelevant as anything other than dead words, as the new testament is the living, breathing word of Jesus.

This is Christianity. Not any Fundamentalist/Protestant/Westboro/Catholic BS, THIS.

[WalterScottDempsey]

(06-07-2014 07:17 AM)DoA Wrote:  

(06-07-2014 12:51 AM)WalterScottDempsey Wrote:  I guess the religious aspects matter less to me than the lessons of Christ. That you are not to think that you're better than anyone; that you're just as flawed as everyone else; that wealth means very little in life; that you are to help your fellow man. Really, Christianity is the discarding of the old testament. It's irrelevant. Completely and utterly irrelevant as anything other than dead words, as the new testament is the living, breathing word of Jesus.

Yes, yes indeed.

An important aspect of the OT that Jesus was very quick to dismiss was organized religion in general; he called religious authorities (and followers) "hypocrites" for pretending to offer salvation to others when in truth they used their religious affiliations to persecute groups they didn't like. That sounds a lot like the homophobes of today!

Exactly, and they must be called out for they ONLY cite the old testament to justify their misguided hatred. I like to point out that the mixing of fabric material is also a sin punishable by death. The Apostle Paul had to call them out and so must I. I view the misguided Christians as a greater detriment to the church than any atheist.