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Is it bad that I'm apathetic about politics?
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thewake Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Is it bad that I'm apathetic about politics?

(05-26-2014 06:29 PM)I Must Enter a Username Wrote:  
(05-26-2014 06:16 PM)W Kuts Wrote:  
(05-26-2014 06:04 PM)I Must Enter a Username Wrote:  Some people here are continuing to confuse non-participation in bourgeois parliamentary democracy as "political apathy".

The impossibilist Marxists (Notably consisting of council communists, ultra-lefts) and anarchists have refused parliamentary representation, and that wasn't because they were bored or uninterested. It's as if we are coming to a consensus that their numerous analyses on bourgeois democracy always came to the fast-coming conclusion that, "Gee, X becoming president sure is boring, and that's because we are too politically apathetic to call our local congressmen, right? We're totally not interested in politics, mannn."

In other words, tell me that Anton Pannekoek wasn't interested in politics.
Anton Pannekoek was interested in politics, but the vast majority of the people really aren't, whether it's "bourgeois" democracy or it's Marxist dialectics. Any mass movement suffers a free rider problem. Let me demonstrate with a thought experiment:

Let us suppose there is a political movement that is advocating for Pannekoek's council communism in a country. The rank and file of this movement may number in the thousands, or even the millions, depending on how successful it is. Will one person's participation or non-participation in this movement (provided they aren't an important leader) actually bring about a shift in society from its previous political and economic organization to council communism?

I would think it is highly unlikely.

So, provided council communism is a desirable mode of political and economic organization (which, while it may not be a stretch for you, is for me) people would be individually rational to reap the benefits of the council communism movement without actually expending the energy of participating in it, or maybe just participating in it minimally to look good by going to a few meetings or putting out a "Pannekoek rocks!" yard sign.

Only people who derive some sort of benefit from the camaraderie of the movement, the intellectual discussion in the movement, or the thrill of participating in a movement that seeks to transform society will be avid participants. The other people will be apathetic, even in revolutionary movements.

This reminds me a lot of a critique provided by a fellow communist (Possibly Bordiga?) on council communism, that "not everyone (proletarian) is revolutionary" (and etc..) therefore invalidating the necessity of Councilist methods.

I think they're on the right track, as far as getting participation goes. A more local democracy surely encourages participation. If you have a smaller number of people, you can influence the outcome of votes by being active in the politics of the small group much more easily than in entire nations or large cities. Even if your one vote doesn't count all the time, it is more likely to matter and (more importantly) your political activities may have more impact on the voting of others. And in smaller groups, social pressure to become involved is probably stronger.

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05-27-2014 04:25 AM
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RE: Is it bad that I'm apathetic about politics? - thewake - 05-27-2014 04:25 AM

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